President Barack Obama

Nude_IHB

New member
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Dear Mr. President,



I voted for you. I don't have all the expectations of you that most of your supporters seem to have. I don't share their blind loyalty or unwavering conviction. You are, after all, only a politician... a man with flaws and feet of clay. I can, and will, forgive you for the inevitable mistakes you will make in the coming weeks. But I do need you to do one thing:



<strong>Please, be great.</strong>



I don't mean a great Democrat. I don't mean a great black man. I don't mean a great orator. I don't even mean a great father. We, the country, all of us; we need you to be a great President of the United States. We need you to remain good, to avoid the partisan political battles being waged by idealogues, and do what is best for all of us.



I wish you all the best, Mr. President. Good luck and may God bless America.
 
[quote author="caycifish" date=1232541210]Hi Nude!



And Eva is spending time on her real life. :)</blockquote>


I don't really want to hijack this thread as Nude's post is truly beuatiful. However, I have been thinking about the people I really miss on this board and Eva is at the top, but I also really missed Nude. I"m so glad he's back and I do hope that Eva returns.
 
Great post nude and welcome back!



My Wife landed at LAX yesterday on a Virgin Atlantic flight from London...the Captain made an announcement congratulating all the Americans on board on their new President...





To me, and millions of others all over the world, President Obama is not only "your" President but "our" president too...



I know He will give everything he has and that's all we can ask...
 
Yeah, but I don't want Obama to be anyone else's president...really i just want him to be ours. He was elected to do what's best for the US.



I don't mean you PeterUK (love you!), but I seriously think folks outside the US are going to actually be surprised that Obama doesn't put their interests over those of US citizens.



On a few of his more left wing ideas, I hope Obama falls flat on his face, but in general, i wish Obama well and hope he succeeds at turning the economy around and keeping us safe.
 
Looks like he is closing Guantanamo ASAP.

This was one of my biggest complaints about Bush 43.

America does not torture people. We dont hold people without

due process for years and years. And we dont spy on our citizens

phone calls either. Even if it is someone calling Pakistan.

Obama`s line in the inaugural address says it well.



"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"
 
Bitserv,



Sorry to dissapoint you, but it looks like Obama is leaving a back door on torture:



<blockquote>"But the orders would leave unresolved complex questions surrounding the closing of the Guant?namo prison, including whether, where and how many of the detainees are to be prosecuted. <strong><em>They could also allow Mr. Obama to reinstate the C.I.A.?s detention and interrogation operations in the future, by presidential order</em></strong>, as some have argued would be appropriate if Osama bin Laden or another top-level leader of Al Qaeda were captured."</blockquote>


<blockquote>"The new White House counsel, Gregory B. Craig, briefed lawmakers about some elements of the orders on Wednesday evening. A Congressional official who attended the session said <em><strong>Mr. Craig acknowledged concerns from intelligence officials that new restrictions on C.I.A. methods might be unwise and indicated that the White House might be open to allowing the use of methods other than the 19 techniques allowed for the military</strong></em>."</blockquote>


Via the New York Times:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22gitmo.html?_r=1
 
Look, I agree torture, in general, is bad. But hard choices have to be made sometimes and if it truly comes down it, if it's the only way, then maybe in those rare circumstances it needs to happen. Leaving a backdoor, as sick as it is to think about, is probably necessary.
 
[quote author="4walls4me" date=1232716018]Look, I agree torture, in general, is bad. But hard choices have to be made sometimes and if it truly comes down it, if it's the only way, then maybe in those rare circumstances it needs to happen. Leaving a backdoor, as sick as it is to think about, is probably necessary.</blockquote>


Maybe you can explain to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar">Maher Arar</a> how his was a rare circumstance where it was the only way.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1232755697][quote author="4walls4me" date=1232716018]Look, I agree torture, in general, is bad. But hard choices have to be made sometimes and if it truly comes down it, if it's the only way, then maybe in those rare circumstances it needs to happen. Leaving a backdoor, as sick as it is to think about, is probably necessary.</blockquote>


Maybe you can explain to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar">Maher Arar</a> how his was a rare circumstance where it was the only way.</blockquote>
You know what? Mistakes happen. It's a sad fact of life that innocent people get accused, occasionally convicted, and sometimes (tragically) executed for crimes they did not commit. Shall we scrap the whole justice system to prevent those kinds of mistakes? That a few innocent people were caught up in attempts to prevent an attack by an organization that uses personal relationships and secrecy to operate is regrettable, but not surprising. Shall we just quit trying to find, prevent, and prosecute/execute terrorists? As far as I can tell, you don't support anything that has to do with national defense, criminal prosecution, or personal accountability. Why is that?
 
[quote author="Oscar" date=1232757387][quote author="green_cactus" date=1232755697][quote author="4walls4me" date=1232716018]Look, I agree torture, in general, is bad. But hard choices have to be made sometimes and if it truly comes down it, if it's the only way, then maybe in those rare circumstances it needs to happen. Leaving a backdoor, as sick as it is to think about, is probably necessary.</blockquote>


Maybe you can explain to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar">Maher Arar</a> how his was a rare circumstance where it was the only way.</blockquote>
You know what? Mistakes happen. It's a sad fact of life that innocent people get accused, occasionally convicted, and sometimes (tragically) executed for crimes they did not commit. Shall we scrap the whole justice system to prevent those kinds of mistakes? That a few innocent people were caught up in attempts to prevent an attack by an organization that uses personal relationships and secrecy to operate is regrettable, but not surprising. Shall we just quit trying to find, prevent, and prosecute/execute terrorists? As far as I can tell, you don't support anything that has to do with national defense, criminal prosecution, or personal accountability. Why is that?</blockquote>


This is the United States of America. WE DONT take people out of our Airports with a black bag over their head and torture them for a couple of years. We are a country of laws. And when we suspend those laws out of fear and use the words "To Prevent Attack" as the reason to suspend our laws. We have become the very evil we are against. Thankfully your concept of "National Defense" has run its course and is over for the next 4 years with Obama.

We do not need to become a Police State where anyone that happens to be of Muslim decent

is a suspected terrorist. Learn from history. Taking all the Japanese Americans and putting them in "Camps"? These people were American Citizens born in this country.

Once again "fear" makes us do foolish things that in the eyes of history are really dumb.



This is the 21st Century. And the way to fight terrorism is not by suspending the constitution

or breaking the Geneva Convention. All we do is insight more hate and create stronger enemies

with that shortsighted stupidity.



How would you feel if the "Mistake" happened to you or your family ?

"Your papers were out of order" "So you will go to the camp" ?????????
 
Collateral damage is a sad fact of life. No matter which system is chosen, there will always be collateral damage and unintended consequences.



Can't go throwing out the baby with the bath water.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1232760127]



This is the United States of America. WE DONT take people out of our Airports with a black bag over their head and torture them for a couple of years. We are a country of laws. And when we suspend those laws out of fear and use the words "To Prevent Attack" as the reason to suspend our laws. </blockquote>


You're right. We don't. And we didn't in the case cited by Green_Cactus.



If you read his link, you will see that he stopped over in New York on the way to Canada. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police had given the INS information on Arar, and he was deported to Syria.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1232760127]This is the United States of America. WE DONT take people out of our Airports with a black bag over their head and torture them for a couple of years. We are a country of laws. And when we suspend those laws out of fear and use the words "To Prevent Attack" as the reason to suspend our laws. We have become the very evil we are against. Thankfully your concept of "National Defense" has run its course and is over for the next 4 years with Obama.</blockquote>
We didn't torture him, the Syrians did. We turned him over to the Jordanians, who in turn handed him over to the Syrians. By his own account, he was never tortured by any American, whether citizen, agent, or otherwise. To my knowledge no law was ever violated in this case, nor have any been suspended to prevent attacks. And maybe you missed the link provided, but it's pretty clear that Obama has left himself an "out" on the issue.



<blockquote>We do not need to become a Police State where anyone that happens to be of Muslim decent

is a suspected terrorist. Learn from history. Taking all the Japanese Americans and putting them in "Camps"? These people were American Citizens born in this country.

Once again "fear" makes us do foolish things that in the eyes of history are really dumb.</blockquote>


History? Here's some history... FDR, the ideal Democrat, created the internment camps. Bush didn't even consider it. The single most invasive thing Bush approved was a no-fly list. Not a "no-boats" list, or a "no-drive" list, or a "house-arrest" list, or even a "hey, don't sell these guys fertilizer" list. Even with that, I saw hundreds of people of midde-eastern heritage on planes and in airports of the last 7 years. None of them were unable to fly or taken into back rooms by security. So spare me the hyperbole, we never even came close to becoming a police state.



<blockquote>This is the 21st Century. And the way to fight terrorism is not by suspending the constitution

or breaking the Geneva Convention. All we do is insight more hate and create stronger enemies

with that shortsighted stupidity.</blockquote>
When was the constitution ever suspended, you fruitcake? Seriously, you spit this stuff out like we were all confined to our homes while tanks were rolling through the streets. As for how to fight terrorism, considering the history of the last 40 years, if there were *one* successful way to win that fight <strong>there wouldn't be any more terrorists!</strong> We would have applied that mystical successful strategy years ago when Clinton was in office. And it's spelled "incite"; <em>insight</em> in the ability to seeing into a situation, something you apparently lack. Our enemies hated us before Bush was in office, so your attempt at linking cause and effect isn't just wrong, it's stupid.



<blockquote>How would you feel if the "Mistake" happened to you or your family ?

"Your papers were out of order" "So you will go to the camp" ?????????</blockquote>
I'd be pissed. I'd be even more pissed if some nutjob member of my family was allowed to hijack a plane and fly it into a building because the cops were too timid to question them when they had reasonable suspicion. I'm not condoning a mistake, but I'm not condemning the ones who made it either. They are humans, they make mistakes. In Arar's case, they made a big one.
 
Winex



The man was a Canadian Citizen. He had not been in Syria since he was 17.

We did a Rendition for no other purpose than to torture via Syrian Proxy.

Why would we send a Canadian Citizen to Syria ?



<a href="http://www.maherarar.ca/">http://www.maherarar.ca/</a>



Just like the guy thats no longer in office. You could never be wrong.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1232768132]Winex



The man was a Canadian Citizen. He had not been in Syria since he was 17.

We did a Rendition for no other purpose than to torture via Syrian Proxy.

Why would we send a Canadian Citizen to Syria ?



<a href="http://www.maherarar.ca/">http://www.maherarar.ca/</a>



Just like the guy thats no longer in office. You could never be wrong.</blockquote>


Obviously reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points. The Wikipedia article that Green Cactus linked too clearly stated that the Canadian Royal Mounted Police notified the US INS about a problem. Canada didn't want him in the country, and we sent him back to where he came from.



You have to be pretty far out of the loop to think that the Syrian government is in cahoots with the US Government.
 
I think my objection is the gloating by the Obama supporters that they have reclaimed the moral high ground, when in fact the circumstances dictate that there is no moral high ground.



If one of these detainees is released and returns to the battlefield to kill an American GI, would you argue to the GI's parents that the release of thet detainee was morally justifiable? Of course not.



If one of the detainee's is moved to the US and escapes and kills a US citizen, can you argue that moving the prisoners was morally justifiable? Of course not.



If the Uighars are repatriated to China, and the Chinese government makes them "disappear", whould you argue that as morally justifiable? Of course not.



Would you argue that it is morally justifiable that all detainees in the future be processed through a criminal proceeding, knowing full well that other nations may subject US POW's to criminal trials? Of course not.



There is no moral high ground to be found in this, and I think the Obama supporters are going to find that out in a few years when it becomes known that Obama didn't really change the rules - see here: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17841.html





And comparing this to the internment of the Japanese is ridiculous. Everyone was required to report, just for being Japanese. It's not like every American of Middle Eastern descent is being required to report to an internment camp, and having their property confiscated.
 
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