Author Topic: Is Irvine worth the premium?  (Read 36182 times)

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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« on: December 03, 2009, 04:59:00 PM »
So I still wander over to the IHB to check out the blog article (hoping they will mention the forums closure) and they touched on something today we had discussed a little bit in the forums, namely the premium of Irvine.

AZDavid posted this ill-informed (IMO) beauty in the comments:
Quote
People in your community have been made to believe that this is affordability.

What has really been sold to your people is a country club membership, an extremely expensive membership.  The only difference is that your average Joe gets in using someone elses money and a mindset of musical chair groupthink that there is a line of eager beavers waiting to assume all pledges of debt from the prior generation.

People know that the houses are not worth that kind of money so they make up excuses to rationalize away their doubts.  We see all kinds of excuses being paraded around like:

1.) Irvine weather reports
2.) Irvine masterbatory architectural planning and overthetop design
3.) Irvine crime statistics
4.) My personal favorite - Irvine Schools!  Oh yes!  We must do it for the sake of the children Ah Guchi Guchi Goo!  Yes, adults using childworship as a substitute for personal responsibility and prudent financial planning.  Just like politicians out there justifying everything as beneficial for children.

It's just plain marketing, pure and simple.  Nothing wrong with any of these things on the surface.  It's only when you think, does it become uncomfortable.  The money being 'paid' by these folks for their country club dues is has no hope of ever being paid back.  It's all part of the circle-jerk Orwellian mindset that today's buyer must adopt by believing that money can be borrowed into perpetuity to pay for past debts.

If the majority of people in Irvine owned their homes, and I mean OWN - not OWE, I would have no problem with it.  The problem is the massive amount of debt you people owe.  Holy Sh*t you people owe so much money and we all know that it will never be paid in full.

Some of the dumber crowd living there like to pull out the work hard canard - social Darwinism.  Claims that Irvine is for hard workers who are rewarded for their service.  These folks believe that debt is wealth and a FICO score is their rank in society.  Being granted a 500K mortgage is their reward for being so successful - a bigger hamster wheel for them to run on in front of all the other lower class hamsters.

When credit dries up and the government is forced to raise interest rates, it is all going to come crashing down fast and hard.  All of the marketing BS that grooms your community will not matter once bankers lose faith in your hamster's ability to keep the wheel spinning.

In the meantime, they will go ahead and let people throw money away in down payments.
Now I assume he's single with no kids (or else he wouldn't spend so much time with MS Paint) but I think he doesn't understand that he's not the Irvine demographic. If he was, he would probably not be posting the things he does.

I think besides the 4 "excuses" he mentions, as I expand my search for a home to beyond the borders of Irvine, I think the distance from where we work is a big factor.

These last few days exemplified how important it is to us to work near where we live and where our kids go to school. Just this week I had to go home twice during the day for maintenance appointments and then my wife had to go home because the kids were sent home due to a school illness issue. Add on that the time I need to get home to pick them up and I think any type of commute just cancels too far out from the big I. Sure, maybe time may be similar, but the mileage and gas is not.

And... while I can guarantee possibly a 20-minute commute via toll road/freeway, what if there is some unforeseen accident or closure? I can do sidestreet or freeway from office to home in about the same time... when the freeways are packed... I take surface roads. Sure I can surface road it from Aliso Viejo or Laguna Niguel, but it's probably going to double or triple the time it would normally take.

That in itself, is worth **a** premium. Convenience goes a long way and maybe when my kids are old enough to drive themselves we can live somewhere farther and cheaper (and they can be the ones who lets the plumber/electrician/cable/whoever in).

I understand there is a majority of you who don't believe Irvine is worth it (FWIW, I don't think it's worth the **current** premium) but for those who do, why? And for those who don't, can you at least relate somewhat?
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Offline tmare

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 05:18:00 PM »
I completely understand where you are coming from as far as working and living in the same community. My husband and I have both chosen to do the same (although not in Irvine) for many reasons. First of all, I believe that is the way it SHOULD be. Living and working in close proximity is not only environmentally friendly but it is community friendly. Much of the decline of neighborhoods can be attributed to how mobile we have become and this is something we need to reconsider as we make attempts to be kinder to our planet.

Offline peteruk

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 05:23:00 PM »
IHO...I love Irvine, for lots of different reasons, we all have our own of course...

I have a 1.8 mile commute so I could walk to work...

I do  think AZ is right about the Hamster though...

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 05:39:00 PM »
@new2irvine: Great first post... and you are actually the reverse of the reason I detailed above.

You choose to live in Irvine despite the commute and that I commend you for. Regardless of how accurate a "good school" is... it is important to many people.

Later on in the comments, AZDave is defending his "schools" comment saying that it's basically political manipulation and says: "There are good schools in any city - come on."

tonye had a great reply to that:
Quote
Oh, missed the last part.  You will notice that wherever you have a good school, property values reflect that.

What makes Irvine desireable by us parents is not that we have individual good schools, but that the ENTIRE SCHOOL SYSTEM is very good.

For an example of how a f***ed up school district can sabotage a good school check out the LAUSD and the charter schools in LA.  When the local school district is crap and ran by a bunch of political and union thugs more intent in their power gain than in teaching the kids then you have absolutely no garantee going forward that your local "excellent" school will stay that way.

Don't make the argument that a good school DISTRICT should not help home values because that's flat out wrong, at least the way schools are run in California.

Sure... it's about parents too (graph and co) but having a good school DISTRICT doesn't hurt.

And as not to be accused of taking material without linking back:
http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/orangetree-condos-irvine/
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 05:41:00 PM by Anonymous »
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Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 06:59:00 PM »
Value is something that is perceived by people.  Every person will have a different perceived value of Irvine.  I have buyers that will only buy a home in certain villages of Irvine while some of my other buyers are sick of what's going on and want their money to go further by buying in cities like Laguna Niguel, Orange, Anaheim Hills, Fullerton, Laguna Hills, and Coto.  TIC has done a great job branding Irvine just like Coca Cola did a great job with Coke.  Perception becomes reality!
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Offline graphrix

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 02:17:00 AM »
I'm too tired to go on a rant on how AzDingleBerry is a twit without any resemblance of economic or demographic knowledge. I should smite you to hell and back just for quoting him.

But, I will say this... IHO, you are right to pay a premium for what you have/want. For me, a central location is key for me. N. Tustin is central, Tustin is better and Orange works out pretty well for me too. Unfortunately Irvine is too out of the way for me. If schools played a part in my life it would be a deciding factor, but if I could find the ideal place in Floral Park I would live there too, but only... and only if I had the means for a private high school in case they couldn't get in to OCHSA or Foothill. Yes... I know... schools are a factor, but I just don't see why Foothill would be a bad choice vs. Uni. It really isn't, now if we were comparing Orange High here, then it would be a different story, but we are not... and if I chose a location that has or could have a less than desirable high school I would only do it if I could afford to save for a private school. Which, without the mello roos and HOAs compensates for that, and that is what I see as part of the "premium" of Irvine, not just the prices.

And to be honest, I would want my kids to be in a more diverse school than say Uni. I don't want them to feel like a minority, just like traceimage and CK don't want their kids to feel that way. Hence why I like Foothill, where crackercake kids and mixed race kids would feel as equals. Don't get me started on the different demographics of Asians, cuz I don't have BK here to back me up. And I know, my best friend who is Korean has agreed with BK's opinion on that. Plus there is an element of bad kid exposure at Uni, that I will not post publicly anymore. Just know that some of the kids have connections for high quality products that only they could have.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 08:30:00 AM »
I'm not sure but I think the issue with N. Tustin isn't the high school but the elementary and middle schools. The ones closer to Tustin Ranch/West Irvine are outstanding (this is from actual parents, not API scores) but it gets a bit more suspect beyond that.

And at least we agree about location, your radius of gravitation is much wider than mine (geographically speaking... physically... my rotundness outmatches your spidermonkiness) so the cities you mentioned make more sense.

But for those FCBs looking for a similar community (2 99 Ranches, 2 Korean markets and several Middle Eastern ones), safety, reputable schools at all levels (which includes a university) and proximity to job centers or access to them (55,5,405 triangle)... Irvine does make a good argument for its premium.

I just don't agree with how high that premium is... I love Irvine as much as CK but I just can't wrap my head around how high the prices have stayed... many areas like Quail Hill haven't even got down to 2003 pricing... ugh.
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Offline reason

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 09:18:00 AM »
Commuting and traffic is a big issue with me. Currently, my weekly gasoline cost is $25.00 . I don't take the freeways to work.

I have mentioned this in another thread. My dinner starts around 6 PM. BTW, many a times after dinner I would turn to my wife and say, "Huh? It's only 6:45 PM? We're done with dinner? Oh my... people are still stuck on the freeways, right now. Those poor bast@rds. Haha!"  Lastly, I can go to bed at 8 PM if I so choose.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 09:26:00 AM by Anonymous »

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 03:00:00 PM »
Along with IHO, was probably one of the most vocal lovers of all things Irvine on the former IHB.  For me, I like it because it is very much a reflection of who I am now, and who my family is.  It just feels like it fits.  Irvine is everything I would have hated 10 years ago and would have sworn never to become exiled to. Back then I was living in Manhattan Beach, partying in Hermosa and Hollywood and would have considered a place like Irvine laughable.  

But now I am that guy, and this is that place.  And I love who I have grown into, and what Irvine has grown into to meet my needs.  Irvine is ALL those things most hold dear about it --- safe, great schools, convienent, sensible.  But it also has just enough appeal to the old 90's version CK....If I really need to I can go to any number of watering holes at the Marketplace, Spectrum, or District to go have a few drinks --- and when I am there I will generally be in the company of people just like me, not a bunch of Ed Hardy clad tools like I would probably find on the 2010 version of Pier Ave.  And for the family times, the access to outdoors and entertainment options is second to none.  

Of course the diversity here is very much a reflection of who my family is. Like I said, it just fits.  And believe me, we have looked and assessed far and wide --- from as far north as the San Fernando Valley and Arcadia all the way to Ladera Ranch.  And even North Tustin (which I love, BTW).  But this is the place for us.  Oh, and I also think that Irvine has the hottest mom's in all of Southern California, which of course makes school drop offs and trips to Costco all the more enjoyable.  Can I say that here?

  :-X

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 03:46:00 PM »
Is it hypocritical for me to think that Irvine is not worth the premium, when I just bought a house in Irvine? Well, maybe, but that's the way I feel.

Offline qwerty

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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 04:00:00 PM »
Quote from: "ck"

 I also think that Irvine has the hottest mom's in all of Southern California, which of course makes school drop offs and trips to Costco all the more enjoyable.  Can I say that here?

  :-X


You can, but its not accurate. Manhattan beach has the hottest moms by far.

Offline greencactus

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 04:06:00 PM »
Quote from: "ck"
... not a bunch of Ed Hardy clad tools like I would probably find on the 2010 version of Pier Ave.


I thought this is what happens to the South Bay crowd once they land in the suburbs and hit their midlife crisis.  :P

Offline evalseraphim

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Is Irvine worth the premium?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 03:04:00 PM »
Quote from: "irvinehomeowner"
... Irvine does make a good argument for its premium.


Where I think it does not deserve a premium is density.  I can't find it now, but I recall BK saying that housing unit density of greater than 8 units / acre is not worth it.  Parking will suck, privacy will suffer, etc.

Basically, you're talking lots of ~5,500 sq ft. as a minimum for happiness.

 

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