Montecito / Sonoma / Carmel Pricing

irvinehomeowner

Well-known member
So for Valentine's Day, we decided to check out the Woodbury SFR trio to see what insane prices TIC is currently offering them for... how romantic huh? The last time we saw them was during the frenzy, and this time we wanted to see all 3 at the same time to give us an accurate comparison.

Montecito
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2156sft from $739,000
Plan 2: 4/3, 2308sft from $779,000
Plan 3: 4/3, 2336sft from $807,000

Sonoma
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2365sft from $765,200
Plan 2: 4/3, 2463sft from $820,500
Plan 3: 4/3, 2635sft from $875,600

Carmel:
Plan 1: 4/4, 2625sft from $900,050
Plan 2: 4/4, 2630sft from $932,500
Plan 3: 4/4, 3050sft from $990,000

I still cannot believe this pricing.

The homes are nice... there is, as BK mentioned, an inefficient use of space but it does help make the homes feel bigger. The fact that each one tried to create a foyer was not lost on me as I hate going through the front door of a home and being smack dab in the middle of the living room. I also liked the ones that used that area to make a stairs entry so it created volume for the foyer.

I still think Montecito could have worked on it entry from outside and Carmel has some terrible executions for the master and master bath.

Interestingly enough, over at Sonoma... there wasn't very much FCB traffic... but at Montecito/Carmel, the ratio was much higher... I wonder why.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]So for Valentine's Day, we decided to check out the Woodbury SFR trio to see what insane prices TIC is currently offering them for... how romantic huh? The last time we saw them was during the frenzy, and this time we wanted to see all 3 at the same time to give us an accurate comparison.

Montecito
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2156sft from $739,000
Plan 2: 4/3, 2308sft from $779,000
Plan 3: 4/3, 2336sft from $807,000

Sonoma
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2365sft from $765,200
Plan 2: 4/3, 2463sft from $820,500
Plan 3: 4/3, 2635sft from $875,600

Carmel:
Plan 1: 4/4, 2625sft from $900,050
Plan 2: 4/4, 2630sft from $932,500
Plan 3: 4/4, 3050sft from $990,000

I still cannot believe this pricing.

The homes are nice... there is, as BK mentioned, an inefficient use of space but it does help make the homes feel bigger. The fact that each one tried to create a foyer was not lost on me as I hate going through the front door of a home and being smack dab in the middle of the living room. I also liked the ones that used that area to make a stairs entry so it created volume for the foyer.

I still think Montecito could have worked on it entry from outside and Carmel has some terrible executions for the master and master bath.

Interestingly enough, over at Sonoma... there wasn't very much FCB traffic... but at Montecito/Carmel, the ratio was much higher... I wonder why.[/quote]
FCBs don't like street noise from San Canyon and Trabuco maybe? ??? :-X
Btw, why is Carmel Plan 2 over $30k more expensive than Carmel Plan 1 when the difference is only 5sf??? :-/
 
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA"]
Btw, why is Carmel Plan 2 over $30k more expensive than Carmel Plan 1 when the difference is only 5sf??? :-/[/quote]
Layout? Plan 1 is downstairs Master with bedrooms up.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA"]
Btw, why is Carmel Plan 2 over $30k more expensive than Carmel Plan 1 when the difference is only 5sf??? :-/[/quote]
Layout? Plan 1 is downstairs Master with bedrooms up.[/quote]

That doesn't make sense. For the plan 2 to be 32K more, the Plan 2 must have something better, not the plan 1. Unless having the Master downstairs calls for a lower price? Do people not like that?
 
It could also be a case of the Carmel Plan 1 not having a price increase in subsequent releases due to low interest.

If you look at the floorplan of the Plan 1, it's not very good.

1. Laundry Room off the kitchen
2. Dining area is far from the kitchen
3. Kitchen more of a u-style rather than open like the other 2 plans
4. Small upstairs space, only 2 bedrooms, no loft, you can add an upstairs master + retreat or 5th bedroom but that will bump the price

I was sitting in the Plan 1 and some 7 year old girl walked into the kitchen and asked where the dining room table is. She saw it was way over on the other side and stated "That's too far away"... kid > architect for Plan 1.

I am completely underwhelmed by the Carmel designs and for $900k-$1m... that's a big rip.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]

Montecito
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2156sft from $739,000
Plan 2: 4/3, 2308sft from $779,000
Plan 3: 4/3, 2336sft from $807,000


Sonoma
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2365sft from $765,200
Plan 2: 4/3, 2463sft from $820,500
Plan 3: 4/3, 2635sft from $875,600

[/quote]

I find the price overlap of Montecito Plan 2 and 3 and Sonoma Plan 1 to be strange. If somebody told me I had $800k to spend and could pick one of these three models, there would be no question. But I guess others must prefer a motorcourt.
 
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]So for Valentine's Day, we decided to check out the Woodbury SFR trio to see what insane prices TIC is currently offering them for... how romantic huh? The last time we saw them was during the frenzy, and this time we wanted to see all 3 at the same time to give us an accurate comparison.

Montecito
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2156sft from $739,000
Plan 2: 4/3, 2308sft from $779,000
Plan 3: 4/3, 2336sft from $807,000

Sonoma
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2365sft from $765,200
Plan 2: 4/3, 2463sft from $820,500
Plan 3: 4/3, 2635sft from $875,600

Carmel:
Plan 1: 4/4, 2625sft from $900,050
Plan 2: 4/4, 2630sft from $932,500
Plan 3: 4/4, 3050sft from $990,000

I still cannot believe this pricing.

The homes are nice... there is, as BK mentioned, an inefficient use of space but it does help make the homes feel bigger. The fact that each one tried to create a foyer was not lost on me as I hate going through the front door of a home and being smack dab in the middle of the living room. I also liked the ones that used that area to make a stairs entry so it created volume for the foyer.

I still think Montecito could have worked on it entry from outside and Carmel has some terrible executions for the master and master bath.

Interestingly enough, over at Sonoma... there wasn't very much FCB traffic... but at Montecito/Carmel, the ratio was much higher... I wonder why.[/quote]

Nice observation IHO. The foyer is very important as a point of arrival. Most homes I saw did not accomplish the foyer experience. From Coronado to Carmel it felt like I just walked into an oversized apartment. Sonoma plans have a nicer interior foyer experience than all others but I can't get pass the ugly exterior as aesthetic is very important to me and why should I give up one of the two if I have to pay this price. I am willing to give up the exterior if Sonoma is priced at high 5 or low 6's. However at this insane price I will demand both.
 
[quote author="ck"]I find the price overlap of Montecito Plan 2 and 3 and Sonoma Plan 1 to be strange. If somebody told me I had $800k to spend and could pick one of these three models, there would be no question. But I guess others must prefer a motorcourt. [/quote]I actually had that discussion with my wife. Although she doesn't like the motorcourt, she does like the extra bedroom downstairs at Montecito and I found this weird... but she likes the Montecito/Carmel area better than the Sonoma one.

Also, there was confirmation that Mello Roos got bought down because all 3 areas were quoting something like $5000 per year for a 1.6% rate as opposed to 1.9% before. Still... an extra $450 in taxes per month is significant.

And all 3 showed Solds on every early phase... but I they do have availability in upcoming ones so I don't think it's selling as hot as they like to display.

EDIT: Need to make sure I quote so my response doesn't seem out of context.

And I agree with BK about the exteriors... very plain Jane. Don't know what else you can do with that... if I had to choose one, it would be with the stone or brick exterior.... the stucco is just too... stucco-ey.
 
Carmel at 3,000 sf it only accomplished a 4/4?

At 3,000 sf there should be a great /family room with formal living and dining even though buyers do not need them today according to the surveys. There should also be a bonus room, a loffice, and a 5th bedroom that can convert to a guest or second master suite located downstairs. In that footage there should even be a hidden 3rd floor attic that is the teens room for the kids hide away. It is all possible to create all of these in 2,980 sf. Where did all the space go? Got to find that little kid that IHO saw to redesign these homes.

Yeah, for 3,000 sf homes at almost $1m buyers going to want something to set apart their status superiority from the "WE poors" by having the basics like formal living, dining and the 3rd car garage. No one really park their 3rd car in the garage or use the formal living but it is still nice to have them.
 
Either I have been a BK-student too long or this is Bizarro World. I said the same thing to my wife... for $1mil... Carmel just doesn't even come close to having what a $1mil house should have.

However, they changed the Carmel Plan 3 from what's on IR2's site to have an upstairs bonus room that can be optioned to a 5th br+ba.

To me, what's worse is the master bath for that plan. It has a nice long double sink vanity but they don't even have a cutout so that someone can sit at it. And not only do they not use the 3-wall enclosed shower (which I think should be the default for any high-priced home) they used the shower+tub combination you find in smaller homes.

Is it just me or shouldn't the master shower be huge, have a nice big seat and be semi-private?
 
CK the price overlap is called driving behind a Asian Driver and trapped in the diamond lane syndrome. Carmel is the Asian driver. The tailgating drivers are rear ending each other but the Asian driver could careless.
 
[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]

Montecito
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2156sft from $739,000
Plan 2: 4/3, 2308sft from $779,000
Plan 3: 4/3, 2336sft from $807,000


Sonoma
Plan 1: 3/2.5, 2365sft from $765,200
Plan 2: 4/3, 2463sft from $820,500
Plan 3: 4/3, 2635sft from $875,600

[/quote]

I find the price overlap of Montecito Plan 2 and 3 and Sonoma Plan 1 to be strange. If somebody told me I had $800k to spend and could pick one of these three models, there would be no question. But I guess others must prefer a motorcourt. [/quote]

Like IHO said, some prefer the bedroom downstairs, but if you don't need the downstairs bedroom, I would go with Sonoma, because it has more square footage, lower price, and, it's not on a motorcourt. When I was at Sonoma yesterday, I did notice that even at the models, you could hear the street noise from Sand Canyon. Not very loud, but if you listened for it, you'd be able to hear it. At Montecito, I can't hear any street noise from Jeffery at the models, so that could also be why the price is higher at Montecito.

What I can't understand is, like BK said about Carmel, at 2365 sqft, that TRI Pointe couldn't put in a fourth bedroom? Even the Montecito Plan 1 at 2156 sqft put in a "Den" which would be used as a bedroom. And the Montecito Plan 2 at 2308 (still smaller) put in a bedroom downstairs. Where did all this wasted space go to? It seems the bedrooms upstairs are HUGE, and the master is ENORMOUS. But I would much rather have a bit smaller room and have a bedroom downstairs.

PS: I am one of those buyers who would totally prefer the formal living, and formal dining room. They obviously didn't survey me.
 
The New Home Company is a good builder. the builder has excellent credential with the former Laing Luxury Homes. This builder is an expert on semi-custom homes but only for large lots. Carmel is a small lot luxury program not within the expertise of this builder and architect.

There are only a small handful of architects and builders who specializes in both custom homes and small lots efficiency IMO who only can only execute this Carmel concept.

Small lot luxury like coastal beach properties combined with merchant housing experience is the solution to density driven development.

Cal Pac for example is the ideal builder who understands efficiency and affordable luxury. At each given price point there must be a separate consumer research for each segment and not just one set of consumer research that applies for all segments.

The price and product overlaps are the symptoms driven by having only one set of guiding criteria dictating 8 different projects. They all look, feel and live the same because they were designed by the same architect and committee. There is no diversity to the exterior vocabularies.

The only difference is the bigger homes have more wasted circulation space and visual space than the smaller homes like the same floor plans being enlarged on a photo copy machine.

Monterey the smaller product felt appropriate and in keeping with the cottage vernacular that Brookfield is known best for.

I don't care much for the roomate or War with the Roses carriage unit over 6 parking stalls. for such a small unit why dedicate such a wasteful oversized ground floor lobby. Through out the entire Collection spaces like this lobby are oversized to becoming wasteful but not big enough to have another room or function.

The corporate culture has restricted the architects creativity. They are only performing a drafting service duty rather than coming up with unique prototype design who truely touch the heart of the buyers.

When the buyers are choosing to buy their homes by process of elimination like not knowing the answers on a multiple exam then the products have too many issues.

Products are good when the buyers check off the "All of the above" box.
 
At $1m this is the discretionary buyer and not a "I need a shelter so Sook Yee can go to an Irvine school by Fall" type of buyer. The buyers of Carmel will want the status symbol associated with the exterior that they can show off like a LV, Chanel or hermes handbag.

The exterior of Carmel does not look like a $1m home. From the exterior they look like 3 bedroom homes sharing bathrooms.

Would the consumers pay LV prices for a bag with Coach logs all over the bag?

Hm, I think that was not a consumer survey question.
 
Is Sonoma still baking upgrades into their home prices? We looked at Phase 1 pricing and were turned off by the upgrades they were imposing on the buyers. If I'm buying new construction, I want to pick what goes in the house and not get force fed upgraded hand rails and secondary bathroom countertops.
 
I ordered one San Disk from Amazon and it arrived today in a huge box big enough for 2 cases of sodas. It reminds me of 2010 Collection.
 
Take the Monterey program and make them all detached homes below the Coronado segmentation. Price them at the low 500's. That is the biggest segment of the market.
 
[quote author="graceomalley"]At $1m this is the discretionary buyer and not a "I need a shelter so Sook Yee can go to an Irvine school by Fall" type of buyer. The buyers of Carmel will want the status symbol associated with the exterior that they can show off like a LV, Chanel or hermes handbag.

The exterior of Carmel does not look like a $1m home. From the exterior they look like 3 bedroom homes sharing bathrooms.

Would the consumers pay LV prices for a bag with Coach logs all over the bag?

Hm, I think that was not a consumer survey question.[/quote]


I kinda like the prices of the new homes. In fact, let the prices be higher. If you can afford, good for you.

It keeps all the hooligan families out. We all know that generally, but not always... higher prices = less crime
 
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