Author Topic: Can Irvine become too Asian?  (Read 116893 times)

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Offline IrvineNinja

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Can Irvine become too Asian?
« on: January 04, 2012, 12:22:45 PM »
A neighborhood elementary school is now 60%+ asian.  Some of the white parents have mentioned that it is getting a little "too Asian" at the school and in the neighborhood.  We had had a huge influx of Korean moms with their kids temporarily staying (usually 2 years) here in Irvine (I was told by one of the Korean parents that they advertise this specific elementary school in Korea).  Again, some of the white parents have mentioned that they may be moving out of Irvine or at least to a more mixed area of Irvine.  I even found some of the asian parents say that it is becoming "too asian" in the elementary school/neighborhood, which I thought was interesting. Any thoughts?

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 12:49:57 PM »
I thought it already was.

Even the whitest Asian I know moved out of Irvine (PatStar).

Graphrix doesn't read the forums anymore but even he has to acknowledge that Irvine is much more "Asian" than back in the 80s. I even posted the census data on OCReader to prove my point which he tried to dance around:

http://ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15128#p15128

You don't even need census data... just count how many more churches, how many more strip malls and how many more restaurants are Asian than there used to be. Heck... a brand new Asian-ified center was built recently and even TIC is allowing more Asian businesses to open up in their shopping centers.

You can always go south... or north.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 12:55:45 PM by irvinehomeowner »
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Offline AA

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 12:54:18 PM »
Yes.  Irvine will be another San Gabriel Valley in another 5 years.  Sadly, non asians particularly caucasions moving out of Irvine is a reflection of people voting with their feet (indirect desire for  segregation). 

Offline qwerty

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 01:00:08 PM »
Yes.  Irvine will be another San Gabriel Valley in another 5 years.  Sadly, non asians particularly caucasions moving out of Irvine is a reflection of people voting with their feet (indirect desire for  segregation). 

I don't know if it's a desire for segregation as it is more of a desire for diversification. Too much of one thing is probably not the best thing

Offline Homer_Simpson

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 01:11:24 PM »
Hopefully I'm here for a few more years and then off to Newport Coast  ;)

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 02:29:47 PM »
some of the white parents have mentioned that they may be moving out of Irvine

That will make it more asian and more white people will leave making it even more asian.

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 03:14:16 PM »
I think the biggest detractor to Irvine isn't the Asians, but how crowded it's gotten since Y2K.  One of the appeals in the 80's and 90's was the amount of open space and greenery all around.  Now it's turning into one big high-density development, and an expensive one at that.

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Offline rkp

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 03:23:11 PM »
My perception is that the majority of Asians moving into Irvine in the last 10 years have been recent immigrants with a different attitude towards assimilation and accepting/joining a new culture than compared to previous influxes of immigrants.  When we came to the US, my parents tried to assimilate into the neighborhood and cultures around them.  Of course this is challenging and my parents probably gave up some of their own culture inadvertently.  However, I see many Irvine immigrants wanting to forget they are outside of their homelands and not trying to follow the norms of the new culture they are in.  This doesnt mean that one should completely forget who they are but things like saying hello to a neighbor, throwing trash in a trash can, caring about communal areas, respecting lines, and a general sense of courtesy can be absorbed. 

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Offline IrvineNinja

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 03:46:51 PM »
Here's an opinion on Irvine.  I found this while looking at what neighborhood we should buy in (hence bestplaces.com...).


http://www.bestplaces.net/backfence/viewcomment.aspx?id=683289AD-FA9E-4354-97B3-CC3929431928&city=Irvine_CA&p=50636770

"Irvine, Ca.- Don't belive the Propaganda /Irvine i -
10/31/2011   

We moved to Irvine, Ca from Birmingham, Mi back in 2004 due to better economic opportunities. I am a third generation American and my wife is second generation American. We grew up in a very Mid-western lifestyle with a diverse group of cultures- mostly European, Indian, Asian, etc. However, the BIG DIFFERENCE back in Michigan was that all of the other cultures like our own actually assimilated into America by learning to speak English and accepting/being part of the American Community. We always had a lot of REAL friends and a great social/support network back in Michigan. Weekend BBQ's were a lot of fun with the neighbors.

We finally decided to take the plunge and moved to Irvine, Ca. into a small apartment for $1850/month. At first, we were pretty impressed and culture shocked with Irvine. It's Damn Expensive! $3.50 for an iced tea at Cheesecake Factory? WTF? Our first three years we had a good time, traveled California, ate great food, had lots to do, enjoyed the great weather but we started noticing a lot of disturbing things.

Flash forward 7 years, we are still living in Irvine, California because we have done very well financially, however, we feel like total OUTSIDERS and cannot wait to move/live in a REAL American Community. It seems like a lot of our good diverse "friends" have moved out of California to better places with more economic opportunities. In our opinion, Irvine, Ca. is NOT a great place to make REAL LONG TERM FRIENDSHIPS, raise a family or be part of a REAL community UNLESS you are Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese or Persian and speak those languages FLUENTLY. Too much diversity without any assimilation is not a good thing. Excessive diversity can make you feel LOCKED OUT of REAL FRIENDSHIPS due to Language & Cultural Barriers. You can feel like an outsider living in a foreign land because you ARE an outsider. Try going into a Vietnamese restaurant where everyone is Vietnamese and you are the only non-asian in the place. Lots of weird looks like-what the hell are you doing here?

Facts-
My wife and I have concluded that it is very difficult to Make REAL Friends in Irvine, California. There is too much cultural diversity and Financial Stress. We don't even know our neighbors. We have tried to introduce ourselves or invite them to dinner but they are too busy for us. It seems like most people you meet here are trying to sell you something and are not interested in getting to know you first. It's very EXPENSIVE to live in California and most people are just trying to survive and become self-absorbed with money first/friendship mentality. No matter how much money you make in California, it seems that your bank account is very low. We make over six figures a year and we almost went into debt trying to keep up with the California "Lifestyle". We recently had an AH-HA Moment-Life is not all about how much money you make, it's about making REAL FRIENDSHIPS and helping others. Most people in Irvine, Ca. are too self-absorbed/selfish. Showing off and driving German/Japanese Sports Cars BMW's Mercedes Lexus and keeping up with the Jones's.

#1 A majority %85 of Californians are on some kind of legal or illegal mind-altering drugs due to FINANCIAL STRESS. They are either pill poppers vicodin, oxy or pot heads or coke heads. It blew us away how many "normal" Californian's hide their drug addictions.
#2 You waste a lot of time driving your car getting around, nothing is close by. Wanna go to the Irvine Spectrum? Good luck finding parking. Would you like to wait one hour plus to eat your dinner? How about sitting next to someone that doesn't speak English? It happens all of the time in Irvine, Ca.
#3 Unless you own your own business or have highly specialized skills forget about working for a job in Irvine, Ca. California has one of the Highest Unemployment Rates in the US.
#4 California is #1 on the 10 states in the worst financial health and highest financially stressed residents according to the Pew Center on the States. #1 being the worst.
#5 Since 90% of California residents are stressed, they have the Dog eat Dog mentality, which makes them some of the most Rude, Unfriendly, Flakey, Materialistic, Stressed out/Fake people ever seen in one area.
#6 Californians are not interested in being involved in a true community. Money First-Friendship Last mentality. Californians are too worried about their finances and too high on their drugs to care about you. Money First/Friendship Last State.
#7 Horrible place to raise a Family due to Bad Influences. 2 out of 3 high school students use drugs. California has a 75.54% DIVORCE RATE one of the highest in the USA.
#8 Too much cultural diversity/diversity sucks. Thousand of foreigners/immigrants from screwed up countries that don’t care to assimilate into US culture or speak English. Most immigrants are in California to milk the socialist liberal system and to make as much money as they can, wire it back home and eventually leave California.
#9 Highest taxes in the USA and HIGHEST FINANCIAL STRESS .
#10 Everything is Super-Expensive/No value for your money. Costly Housing, real estate taxes, expensive food ($3.50 for an Iced Tea!) and highest gas prices because State of California taxes the crap out of everything they can get their greedy hands on!
#11 If you’re not earning at least $160,000/year in California you are eternally forced to rent a small/expensive crappy apartment from rich foreign landlords.
#12 Over 23% of homeowners are underwater on their homes, Foreclosures Everywhere.
#13 A nasty over-crowded Suburban Sprawl nightmare with insane traffic jams.
#14 Worst state to own a business since it’s an Anti-business environment with tons of Red Tape and stupid regulations. Thousands of good companies have left California for better Pro-Business States due to excessive taxes and endless fees.
#15 California has largest “lawsuit climate” meaning every idiot who thinks you are rich is going to try to sue you for money. Scum bag lawyers love California.
#16 California is Broke for $25 Billion. Governor Brown will find a way to get your hard earned money by raising taxes/fees.
#17 California has many corrupt mafia style unions (teachers, police, firefighters) that control California’s government/economy via lobbyists. They suck all of the state's tax dollars dry. Union Fire Fighters can make more than a Doctor with their over-time pay!
#18 Since California has so many illegals, they help their fellow Illegal immigrants to take advantage of every stupid Liberal Law such as the illegal/unfair Dream Act.
#19 California rewards those who are lazy with their welfare system which stinks(20% of LA County Residents get public aid welfare!)
#20 1 of 3 Californians has NO HEALTH INSURANCE
#21 California is home to millions of scary Liberals.
#22 California has the worst gun laws in the US/weakest 2nd Amendment Rights almost impossible to get a CCW unless you are a corrupt cop/prison guard(criminals don’t need licenses or waste money on stupid CA fees to get guns in California!).Criminals have access to all kinds of illegal cheaper guns while the honest, law-abiding California residents cannot have access to guns to protect their families. Think about it, in California, if some violent criminal breaks into your house and murders your Family, he will just get life in prison which is a slap on the wrist joke. If you shoot and kill this criminal his family will turn around and sue you for millions and probably win 70% of the time.
#23 If you're single it is an extremely difficult environment to find a suitable mate/Partner due to high transient levels. People are always moving to and from California.
#24 The Irvine Police care more about writing you a revenue generating traffic ticket that protecting you from criminals,
#25 California has the Third Highest Income Tax Rate in the US.
#26 Earthquakes and Fires.
#27 Dirtiest Air Pollution in the USA. Stinks like crap and you’re breathing it in everyday in Ca
#28 Anti-Business Liberal minded state run by a corrupt career politician Jerry Brown who screwed up BIG TIME back in 1983. The idiotic liberal majority in California voted failure Jerry Brown back into office again for another round of anti-business punishment!
#29 California prisons are a JOKE and career criminals love it. Prisoners don’t have to work. They can get their college degrees, watch cable and buy drugs/cell phones from corrupt prison guards.
#30 If you get Divorced in California and you make more money than your Spouse in California, the California Divorce Courts will take 50% of your assets plus a large monthly alimony for many years.

If you are a Super Rich Flaming Liberal or part of a tight knit immigrant community, then Irvine, California is for you!"

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Offline qwerty

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 03:49:33 PM »
This doesnt mean that one should completely forget who they are but things like saying hello to a neighbor, throwing trash in a trash can, caring about communal areas, respecting lines, and a general sense of courtesy can be absorbed. 

i walk my dogs twice a day, every day.  I would be rich if i got a dollar for every time i said hi and/or smile and get absolutely no response from the majority of asian people.  as if i was invisible.  white people that i come across on my walks tend to be more friendly. not sure if it is a race thing or not (i am mexican).  maybe they dont speak english and dont understand what im saying? indians are a close second.

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 05:43:52 PM »
Kayochan...

OMG. This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read on TalkIrvine. I almost died laughing so hard and brotha, what you saying is so REAL. :)

Let me answer this question, "Can Irvine become too Asian?" If a previous hardcore Irvine fan Socal78 (the founder of TalkIrvine) left Irvine to buy a home elsewhere... the answer is YES.. Irvine is becoming ridiculously TOO ASIAN that even Panda wouldn't feel comfortable living there today.

IHO... the days you were able to see the golden rainbows in Irvine is from 1980s - 2003. The Irvine God you worship is going down hill from here. hahaha :)
 

Here's an opinion on Irvine.  I found this while looking at what neighborhood we should buy in (hence bestplaces.com...).


http://www.bestplaces.net/backfence/viewcomment.aspx?id=683289AD-FA9E-4354-97B3-CC3929431928&city=Irvine_CA&p=50636770

"Irvine, Ca.- Don't belive the Propaganda /Irvine i -
10/31/2011   

We moved to Irvine, Ca from Birmingham, Mi back in 2004 due to better economic opportunities. I am a third generation American and my wife is second generation American. We grew up in a very Mid-western lifestyle with a diverse group of cultures- mostly European, Indian, Asian, etc. However, the BIG DIFFERENCE back in Michigan was that all of the other cultures like our own actually assimilated into America by learning to speak English and accepting/being part of the American Community. We always had a lot of REAL friends and a great social/support network back in Michigan. Weekend BBQ's were a lot of fun with the neighbors.

We finally decided to take the plunge and moved to Irvine, Ca. into a small apartment for $1850/month. At first, we were pretty impressed and culture shocked with Irvine. It's Damn Expensive! $3.50 for an iced tea at Cheesecake Factory? WTF? Our first three years we had a good time, traveled California, ate great food, had lots to do, enjoyed the great weather but we started noticing a lot of disturbing things.

Flash forward 7 years, we are still living in Irvine, California because we have done very well financially, however, we feel like total OUTSIDERS and cannot wait to move/live in a REAL American Community. It seems like a lot of our good diverse "friends" have moved out of California to better places with more economic opportunities. In our opinion, Irvine, Ca. is NOT a great place to make REAL LONG TERM FRIENDSHIPS, raise a family or be part of a REAL community UNLESS you are Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese or Persian and speak those languages FLUENTLY. Too much diversity without any assimilation is not a good thing. Excessive diversity can make you feel LOCKED OUT of REAL FRIENDSHIPS due to Language & Cultural Barriers. You can feel like an outsider living in a foreign land because you ARE an outsider. Try going into a Vietnamese restaurant where everyone is Vietnamese and you are the only non-asian in the place. Lots of weird looks like-what the hell are you doing here?

Facts-
My wife and I have concluded that it is very difficult to Make REAL Friends in Irvine, California. There is too much cultural diversity and Financial Stress. We don't even know our neighbors. We have tried to introduce ourselves or invite them to dinner but they are too busy for us. It seems like most people you meet here are trying to sell you something and are not interested in getting to know you first. It's very EXPENSIVE to live in California and most people are just trying to survive and become self-absorbed with money first/friendship mentality. No matter how much money you make in California, it seems that your bank account is very low. We make over six figures a year and we almost went into debt trying to keep up with the California "Lifestyle". We recently had an AH-HA Moment-Life is not all about how much money you make, it's about making REAL FRIENDSHIPS and helping others. Most people in Irvine, Ca. are too self-absorbed/selfish. Showing off and driving German/Japanese Sports Cars BMW's Mercedes Lexus and keeping up with the Jones's.

#1 A majority %85 of Californians are on some kind of legal or illegal mind-altering drugs due to FINANCIAL STRESS. They are either pill poppers vicodin, oxy or pot heads or coke heads. It blew us away how many "normal" Californian's hide their drug addictions.
#2 You waste a lot of time driving your car getting around, nothing is close by. Wanna go to the Irvine Spectrum? Good luck finding parking. Would you like to wait one hour plus to eat your dinner? How about sitting next to someone that doesn't speak English? It happens all of the time in Irvine, Ca.
#3 Unless you own your own business or have highly specialized skills forget about working for a job in Irvine, Ca. California has one of the Highest Unemployment Rates in the US.
#4 California is #1 on the 10 states in the worst financial health and highest financially stressed residents according to the Pew Center on the States. #1 being the worst.
#5 Since 90% of California residents are stressed, they have the Dog eat Dog mentality, which makes them some of the most Rude, Unfriendly, Flakey, Materialistic, Stressed out/Fake people ever seen in one area.
#6 Californians are not interested in being involved in a true community. Money First-Friendship Last mentality. Californians are too worried about their finances and too high on their drugs to care about you. Money First/Friendship Last State.
#7 Horrible place to raise a Family due to Bad Influences. 2 out of 3 high school students use drugs. California has a 75.54% DIVORCE RATE one of the highest in the USA.
#8 Too much cultural diversity/diversity sucks. Thousand of foreigners/immigrants from screwed up countries that don’t care to assimilate into US culture or speak English. Most immigrants are in California to milk the socialist liberal system and to make as much money as they can, wire it back home and eventually leave California.
#9 Highest taxes in the USA and HIGHEST FINANCIAL STRESS .
#10 Everything is Super-Expensive/No value for your money. Costly Housing, real estate taxes, expensive food ($3.50 for an Iced Tea!) and highest gas prices because State of California taxes the crap out of everything they can get their greedy hands on!
#11 If you’re not earning at least $160,000/year in California you are eternally forced to rent a small/expensive crappy apartment from rich foreign landlords.
#12 Over 23% of homeowners are underwater on their homes, Foreclosures Everywhere.
#13 A nasty over-crowded Suburban Sprawl nightmare with insane traffic jams.
#14 Worst state to own a business since it’s an Anti-business environment with tons of Red Tape and stupid regulations. Thousands of good companies have left California for better Pro-Business States due to excessive taxes and endless fees.
#15 California has largest “lawsuit climate” meaning every idiot who thinks you are rich is going to try to sue you for money. Scum bag lawyers love California.
#16 California is Broke for $25 Billion. Governor Brown will find a way to get your hard earned money by raising taxes/fees.
#17 California has many corrupt mafia style unions (teachers, police, firefighters) that control California’s government/economy via lobbyists. They suck all of the state's tax dollars dry. Union Fire Fighters can make more than a Doctor with their over-time pay!
#18 Since California has so many illegals, they help their fellow Illegal immigrants to take advantage of every stupid Liberal Law such as the illegal/unfair Dream Act.
#19 California rewards those who are lazy with their welfare system which stinks(20% of LA County Residents get public aid welfare!)
#20 1 of 3 Californians has NO HEALTH INSURANCE
#21 California is home to millions of scary Liberals.
#22 California has the worst gun laws in the US/weakest 2nd Amendment Rights almost impossible to get a CCW unless you are a corrupt cop/prison guard(criminals don’t need licenses or waste money on stupid CA fees to get guns in California!).Criminals have access to all kinds of illegal cheaper guns while the honest, law-abiding California residents cannot have access to guns to protect their families. Think about it, in California, if some violent criminal breaks into your house and murders your Family, he will just get life in prison which is a slap on the wrist joke. If you shoot and kill this criminal his family will turn around and sue you for millions and probably win 70% of the time.
#23 If you're single it is an extremely difficult environment to find a suitable mate/Partner due to high transient levels. People are always moving to and from California.
#24 The Irvine Police care more about writing you a revenue generating traffic ticket that protecting you from criminals,
#25 California has the Third Highest Income Tax Rate in the US.
#26 Earthquakes and Fires.
#27 Dirtiest Air Pollution in the USA. Stinks like crap and you’re breathing it in everyday in Ca
#28 Anti-Business Liberal minded state run by a corrupt career politician Jerry Brown who screwed up BIG TIME back in 1983. The idiotic liberal majority in California voted failure Jerry Brown back into office again for another round of anti-business punishment!
#29 California prisons are a JOKE and career criminals love it. Prisoners don’t have to work. They can get their college degrees, watch cable and buy drugs/cell phones from corrupt prison guards.
#30 If you get Divorced in California and you make more money than your Spouse in California, the California Divorce Courts will take 50% of your assets plus a large monthly alimony for many years.

If you are a Super Rich Flaming Liberal or part of a tight knit immigrant community, then Irvine, California is for you!"
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 06:05:57 PM by Panda »
James Park, MBA
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Direct: (678) 865-6250
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Offline IrvineNinja

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 06:15:44 PM »
From http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/teen/teencenter/05nov_whiteflight.htm

"NEWS FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: NOVEMBER 19, 2005

The New White Flight

In Silicon Valley, two high schools with outstanding academic reputations are losing white students as Asian students move in. Why?

By SUEIN HWANG

CUPERTINO, Calif. -- By most measures, Monta Vista High here and Lynbrook High, in nearby San Jose, are among the nation's top public high schools. Both boast stellar test scores, an array of advanced-placement classes and a track record of sending graduates from the affluent suburbs of Silicon Valley to prestigious colleges.

But locally, they're also known for something else: white flight. Over the past 10 years, the proportion of white students at Lynbrook has fallen by nearly half, to 25% of the student body. At Monta Vista, white students make up less than one-third of the population, down from 45% -- this in a town that's half white. Some white Cupertino parents are instead sending their children to private schools or moving them to other, whiter public schools. More commonly, young white families in Silicon Valley say they are avoiding Cupertino altogether.

White students are far outnumbered by Asians at Monta Vista High School in Cupertino, Calif.

Whites aren't quitting the schools because the schools are failing academically. Quite the contrary: Many white parents say they're leaving because the schools are too academically driven and too narrowly invested in subjects such as math and science at the expense of liberal arts and extracurriculars like sports and other personal interests.

The two schools, put another way that parents rarely articulate so bluntly, are too Asian.

Cathy Gatley, co-president of Monta Vista High School's parent-teacher association, recently dissuaded a family with a young child from moving to Cupertino because there are so few young white kids left in the public schools. "This may not sound good," she confides, "but their child may be the only Caucasian kid in the class." All of Ms. Gatley's four children have attended or are currently attending Monta Vista. One son, Andrew, 17 years old, took the high-school exit exam last summer and left the school to avoid the academic pressure. He is currently working in a pet-supply store. Ms. Gatley, who is white, says she probably wouldn't have moved to Cupertino if she had anticipated how much it would change.

In the 1960s, the term "white flight" emerged to describe the rapid exodus of whites from big cities into the suburbs, a process that often resulted in the economic degradation of the remaining community. Back then, the phenomenon was mostly believed to be sparked by the growth in the population of African-Americans, and to a lesser degree Hispanics, in some major cities.

But this modern incarnation is different. Across the country, Asian-Americans have by and large been successful and accepted into middle- and upper-class communities. Silicon Valley has kept Cupertino's economy stable, and the town is almost indistinguishable from many of the suburbs around it. The shrinking number of white students hasn't hurt the academic standards of Cupertino's schools -- in fact the opposite is true.

This time the effect is more subtle: Some Asians believe that the resulting lack of diversity creates an atmosphere that is too sheltering for their children, leaving then unprepared for life in a country that is only 4% Asian overall. Moreover, many Asians share some of their white counterpart's concerns. Both groups finger newer Asian immigrants for the schools' intense competitiveness.

Some whites fear that by avoiding schools with large Asian populations parents are short-changing their own children, giving them the idea that they can't compete with Asian kids. "My parents never let me think that because I'm Caucasian, I'm not going to succeed," says Jessie Hogin, a white Monta Vista graduate.

The white exodus clearly involves race-based presumptions, not all of which are positive. One example: Asian parents are too competitive. That sounds like racism to many of Cupertino's Asian residents, who resent the fact that their growing numbers and success are causing many white families to boycott the town altogether.

"It's a stereotype of Asian parents," says Pei-Pei Yow, a Hewlett-Packard Co. manager and Chinese-American community leader who sent two kids to Monta Vista. It's like other familiar biases, she says: "You can't say everybody from the South is a redneck."

Jane Doherty, a retirement-community administrator, chose to send her two boys elsewhere. When her family moved to Cupertino from Indiana over a decade ago, Ms. Doherty says her top priority was moving into a good public-school district. She paid no heed to a real-estate agent who told her of the town's burgeoning Asian population.

She says she began to reconsider after her elder son, Matthew, entered Kennedy, the middle school that feeds Monta Vista. As he played soccer, Ms. Doherty watched a line of cars across the street deposit Asian kids for after-school study. She also attended a Monta Vista parents' night and came away worrying about the school's focus on test scores and the big-name colleges its graduates attend.

"My sense is that at Monta Vista you're competing against the child beside you," she says. Ms. Doherty says she believes the issue stems more from recent immigrants than Asians as a whole. "Obviously, the concentration of Asian students is really high, and it does flavor the school," she says.

When Matthew, now a student at Notre Dame, finished middle school eight years ago, Ms. Doherty decided to send him to Bellarmine College Preparatory, a Jesuit school that she says has a culture that "values the whole child." It's also 55% white and 24% Asian. Her younger son, Kevin, followed suit.

Kevin Doherty, 17, says he's happy his mother made the switch. Many of his old friends at Kennedy aren't happy at Monta Vista, he says. "Kids at Bellarmine have a lot of pressure to do well, too, but they want to learn and do something they want to do."

While California has seen the most pronounced cases of suburban segregation, some of the developments in Cupertino are also starting to surface in other parts of the U.S. At Thomas S. Wootton High School in Rockville, Md., known flippantly to some locals as "Won Ton," roughly 35% of students are of Asian descent. People who don't know the school tend to make assumptions about its academics, says Principal Michael Doran. "Certain stereotypes come to mind -- 'those people are good at math,' " he says.

In Tenafly, N.J., a well-to-do bedroom community near New York, the local high school says it expects Asian students to make up about 36% of its total in the next five years, compared with 27% today. The district still attracts families of all backgrounds, but Asians are particularly intent that their kids work hard and excel, says Anat Eisenberg, a local Coldwell Banker real-estate agent. "Everybody is caught into this process of driving their kids." Lawrence Mayer, Tenafly High's vice principal, says he's never heard such concerns.

Perched on the western end of the Santa Clara valley, Cupertino was for many years a primarily rural area known for its many fruit orchards. The beginnings of the tech industry brought suburbanization, and Cupertino then became a very white, quintessentially middle-class town of mostly modest ranch homes, populated by engineers and their families. Apple Computer Inc. planted its headquarters there.

As the high-tech industry prospered, so did Cupertino. Today, the orchards are a memory, replaced by numerous shopping malls and subdivisions that are home to Silicon Valley's prosperous upper-middle class. While the architecture in Cupertino is largely the same as in neighboring communities, the town of about 50,000 people now boasts Indian restaurants, tutoring centers and Asian grocers. Parents say Cupertino's top schools have become more academically intense over the past 10 years.

Asian immigrants have surged into the town, granting it a reputation -- particularly among recent Chinese and South Asian immigrants -- as a Bay Area locale of choice. Cupertino is now 41% Asian, up from 24% in 1998.

Some students struggle in Cupertino's high schools who might not elsewhere. Monta Vista's Academic Performance Index, which compares the academic performance of California's schools, reached an all-time high of 924 out of 1,000 this year, making it one of the highest-scoring high schools in Northern California. Grades are so high that a 'B' average puts a student in the bottom third of a class.

"We have great students, which has a lot of upsides," says April Scott, Monta Vista's principal. "The downside is what the kids with a 3.0 GPA think of themselves."

Ms. Scott and her counterpart at Lynbrook know what's said about their schools being too competitive and dominated by Asians. "It's easy to buy into those kinds of comments because they're loaded and powerful," says Ms. Scott, who adds that they paint an inaccurate picture of Monta Vista. Ms. Scott says many athletic programs are thriving and points to the school's many extracurricular activities. She also points out that white students represented 20% of the school's 29 National Merit Semifinalists this year.

Judy Hogin, Jessie's mother and a Cupertino real-estate agent, believes the school was good for her daughter, who is now a freshman at the University of California at San Diego. "I know it's frustrating to some people who have moved away," says Ms. Hogin, who is white. Jessie, she says, "rose to the challenge."

On a recent autumn day at Lynbrook, crowds of students spilled out of classrooms for midmorning break. Against a sea of Asian faces, the few white students were easy to pick out. One boy sat on a wall, his lighter hair and skin making him stand out from dozens of others around him. In another corner, four white male students lounged at a picnic table.

At Cupertino's top schools, administrators, parents and students say white students end up in the stereotyped role often applied to other minority groups: the underachievers. In one 9th-grade algebra class, Lynbrook's lowest-level math class, the students are an eclectic mix of whites, Asians and other racial and ethnic groups.

"Take a good look," whispered Steve Rowley, superintendent of the Fremont Union High School District, which covers the city of Cupertino as well as portions of other neighboring cities. "This doesn't look like the other classes we're going to."

On the second floor, in advanced-placement chemistry, only a couple of the 32 students are white and the rest are Asian. Some white parents, and even some students, say they suspect teachers don't take white kids as seriously as Asians.

"Many of my Asian friends were convinced that if you were Asian, you had to confirm you were smart. If you were white, you had to prove it," says Arar Han, a Monta Vista graduate who recently co-edited "Asian American X," a book of coming-of-age essays by young Asian-Americans.

Ms. Gatley, the Monta Vista PTA president, is more blunt: "White kids are thought of as the dumb kids," she says.

Cupertino's administrators and faculty, the majority of whom are white, adamantly say there's no discrimination against whites. The administrators say students of all races get along well. In fact, there's little evidence of any overt racial tension between students or between their parents.

Mr. Rowley, the school superintendent, however, concedes that a perception exists that's sometimes called "the white-boy syndrome." He describes it as: "Kids who are white feel themselves a distinct minority against a majority culture."

Mr. Rowley, who is white, enrolled his only son, Eddie, at Lynbrook. When Eddie started freshman geometry, the boy was frustrated to learn that many of the Asian students in his class had already taken the course in summer school, Mr. Rowley recalls. That gave them a big leg up.

To many of Cupertino's Asians, some of the assumptions made by white parents -- that Asians are excessively competitive and single-minded -- play into stereotypes. Top schools in nearby, whiter Palo Alto, which also have very high test scores, also feature heavy course loads, long hours of homework and overly stressed students, says Denise Pope, director of Stressed Out Students, a Stanford University program that has worked with schools in both Palo Alto and Cupertino. But whites don't seem to be avoiding those institutions, or making the same negative generalizations, Asian families note, suggesting that it's not academic competition that makes white parents uncomfortable but academic competition with Asian-Americans.

Some of Cupertino's Asian residents say they don't blame white families for leaving. After all, many of the town's Asians are fretting about the same issues. While acknowledging that the term Asian embraces a wide diversity of countries, cultures and languages, they say there's some truth to the criticisms levied against new immigrant parents, particularly those from countries such as China and India, who often put a lot of academic pressure on their children.


Some parents and students say these various forces are creating an unhealthy cultural isolation in the schools. Monta Vista graduate Mark Seto says he wouldn't send his kids to his alma mater. "It was a sheltered little world that didn't bear a whole lot of resemblance to what the rest of the country is like," says Mr. Seto, a Chinese-American who recently graduated from Yale University. As a result, he says, "college wasn't an academic adjustment. It was a cultural adjustment."

Hung Wei, a Chinese-American living in Cupertino, has become an active campaigner in the community, encouraging Asian parents to be more aware of their children's emotional development. Ms. Wei, who is co-president of Monta Vista's PTA with Ms. Gatley, says her activism stems from the suicide of her daughter, Diana. Ms. Wei says life in Cupertino and at Monta Vista didn't prepare the young woman for life at New York University. Diana moved there in 2004 and jumped to her death from a Manhattan building two months later.

"We emphasize academics so much and protect our kids, I feel there's something lacking in our education," Ms. Wei says.

Cupertino schools are trying to address some of these issues. Monta Vista recently completed a series of seminars focused on such issues as helping parents communicate better with their kids, and Lynbrook last year revised its homework guidelines with the goal of eliminating excessive and unproductive assignments.

The moves haven't stemmed the flow of whites out of the schools. Four years ago, Lynn Rosener, a software consultant, transferred her elder son from Monta Vista to Homestead High, a Cupertino school with slightly lower test scores. At the new school, the white student body is declining at a slower rate than at Monta Vista and currently stands at 52% of the total. Friday-night football is a tradition, with big half-time shows and usually 1,000 people packing the stands. The school offers boys' volleyball, a sport at which Ms. Rosener's son was particularly talented. Monta Vista doesn't.

"It does help to have a lower Asian population," says Homestead PTA President Mary Anne Norling. "I don't think our parents are as uptight as if my kids went to Monta Vista."

Write to Suein Hwang at suein.hwang@wsj.com"

So this was 5-6 years ago.  What happened since?

Offline Panda

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 06:41:54 PM »


Kayochan,

This is exactly why started that thread before on TalkIrvine comparing Cupertino and Irvine. One of my first projects out of college with Accenture was in San Jose in 1998. I stayed with my aunt in Cupertino and her children were attending Monta Vista at the time. The school at the time was excellent and ethnic makeup looked a lot like what Northwood High School looks like today.

In 2012, white students make up 22% and asians students make up 75% of Monta Vista High School. This is exactly how University High and Northwood High is going to like in 2020. As a parent,  I personally would think it is unhealthy to send my children to school in that type of environment. If you were a white family living in Irvine, would you want to send your kids to a high where asian students made up 75% of the school? I'll be blunt.. my answer is "NO" 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 06:45:17 PM by Panda »
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Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 06:49:40 PM »
Just like any Asian populated cities in America. When it reaches the peak of ethnic saturation property value and desirability will not inflate as quickly. White flight is a bad thing for the cities. To anchor white population in a city a high degree of pedigree housing and legacy properties are a must. Asians on the otherhands are willing to accept compromises. Both Cupertino and Irvine have already traded much of their natural picturesque scenery for a regimented and utilitarian landscape. Artistry of curvilinear streets are gone. The science of efficient and formulaic grids is the future. Science trumps art just like the educational motto for the tales of two cities.
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

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Re: Can Irvine become too Asian?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 07:30:08 PM »
This is exactly why I find Irvine real estate model to be so fascinating. I clearly understand  the history and the demographics shifts of Irvine from 1980s, 90s etc.
As an investor I’ve learned that something is always moving. In the currency and commodity markets, one asset is becoming more and more undervalued while another asset is becoming overvalued. We are sort of seeing this right now with the dollar rising and Swiss and Euro moving the opposite direction. One bubble pops and another bubble forms elsewhere.

As a real estate investor, if you are able to correctly predict the following in an area and invest:
1)   Job growth – entrepreneurial soil for small businesses, low taxes, many Fortune 500 companies relocating head quarters to the area.
2)   Strong leadership in the city to attract technology companies and initiating to build a technology job center hub like the Irvine Spectrum.
3)   Excellent public schools with high schools ranked in the top 3% in the state.
4)   Upper middle class predominately white neighborhood where Asians families are starting to migrate in at a rapid pace.
5)   Fastest growing population in an area. Preferrably top 3-4 state population growth and MSA city growth from census 2000 – 2010.
6)             Homes in the area are undervalued and below rental parity. It is much cheaper to buy than to rent.

Invested wisely, you will become a millionaire in real estate in a very short of period…. Again… I emphasize only if you are correct with your predictions.


 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 07:54:41 PM by Panda »
James Park, MBA
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Email: jpark@johnscreekrealtypartners.com

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