Poll

What do you think the average *real* income in Irvine is?

Less than $100k
9 (15%)
$100k
17 (28.3%)
$200k
28 (46.7%)
$300k
2 (3.3%)
More than $300k
4 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Average Income in Irvine  (Read 87156 times)

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Offline IndieDev

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 05:54:18 PM »

A "starter" home in Irvine during that time was around $150k... so now it's about $300k... so it's not that far off esp if you consider the lower cost to borrow.


Seriously IHO, you must have moved into Irvine during the bubble because your point makes absolutely no sense if you take into account what the median or starter house was in 1995 and what it is in 2011 in Irvine.

I know what those homes were in 1995 because I was actually around Irvine during that time. Back then, you could buy a NEW detached 4 bedroom house, 2000sqft home in parts of Westpark near the median Irvine home price (which was around $230,000).

The median sold price for a home in Irvine in today is around $480,000. What kind of TIC home does that buy you? Maybe 3 bedrooms and 1 or 2 attached walls.
"You are just a whining loser here hoping that Irvine house price can be 50% off so that you can afford a house here." - NonFCB
"690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500" - VillagePeople
"People are paying for something else, and labeling it "good schools". - PatStar

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 05:57:06 PM »
Then substitute a mid management salary. I only used the entry level because it is easier to relate. It does not matter which one I use. Irvine prices appreciated 260% while salaries have not.


I make 6 times what I did in 1995. And I left Irvine because I would have had to buy a TIC crapbox.  How can you entertain/impress business contacts in something like that?  It's like picking up a client at the airport in your Civic.  And if you live in Stonegate East, it's like picking them up in your Civic with a bunch of empty McDonald's bags all over the floor.

Hey now, let's not trash Civics that badly, at least when you buy a Civic you get a complete car. It comes with 4 tires, an engine, a transmission, and most of the time you get a radio and air conditioner. Also, when you buy a Civic, you're paying "Civic" prices for a car.

When you buy a "home" from TIC, you have to pay a premium to get a backyard, and if you want that 2 car driveway? Well that's extra too. Have $500,000? Hope you don't mind that your front door is going to be 18 inches from a motor court. Is that even enough room to put a decent welcome mat? The worst part about it is you're paying "Bentley" prices for Civic quality homes. Well, if brand new Civics didn't come with all four tires, and any doors.

No, I don't see anything wrong with this picture.

I would like a steering wheel in my Civic. I heard the Irvine Pacific Design Center does a good installation.

I suggest not getting the door mat with lettering on it. After you trim the mat to fit the top half of "welcome" would be gone. The ones with horizontal grues are the best where you can trim off at a 1/2 inch increment.
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 05:59:58 PM »
Then substitute a mid management salary. I only used the entry level because it is easier to relate. It does not matter which one I use. Irvine prices appreciated 260% while salaries have not.


I make 6 times what I did in 1995. And I left Irvine because I would have had to buy a TIC crapbox.  How can you entertain/impress business contacts in something like that?  It's like picking up a client at the airport in your Civic.  And if you live in Stonegate East, it's like picking them up in your Civic with a bunch of empty McDonald's bags all over the floor.

Hey now, let's not trash Civics that badly, at least when you buy a Civic you get a complete car. It comes with 4 tires, an engine, a transmission, and most of the time you get a radio and air conditioner. Also, when you buy a Civic, you're paying "Civic" prices for a car.

When you buy a "home" from TIC, you have to pay a premium to get a backyard, and if you want that 2 car driveway? Well that's extra too. Have $500,000? Hope you don't mind that your front door is going to be 18 inches from a motor court. Is that even enough room to put a decent welcome mat? The worst part about it is you're paying "Bentley" prices for Civic quality homes. Well, if brand new Civics didn't come with all four tires, and any doors.

No, I don't see anything wrong with this picture.
I kinda like the new Civic Si....might pick it up as a daily driver if I ever do pick up that 997 GT3 I keep drooling over.  I get the whole premium price for an Irvine home, but it's what TIC is offering that kinda irks me.  All they keep pumping out is attached condos and detached condos on motorcourts with no driveways....give me a break already.  How about build some traditional SFRs with driveways and keep the prices between $600k-$700k?   >:D
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 06:03:05 PM by USCTrojanCPA »
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Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2011, 06:09:15 PM »
In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 06:10:05 PM »

A "starter" home in Irvine during that time was around $150k... so now it's about $300k... so it's not that far off esp if you consider the lower cost to borrow.


Seriously IHO, you must have moved into Irvine during the bubble because your point makes absolutely no sense if you take into account what the median or starter house was in 1995 and what it is in 2011 in Irvine.
You forget I was shopping Irvine in the mid 90s.... the same houses then (I'm talking resale) 2/1 or 2/2 SFRs are at the price points I just mentioned. There were no NEW starter SFRs back then... it was just condos/townhomes.
Quote
I know what those homes were in 1995 because I was actually around Irvine during that time. Back then, you could buy a NEW detached 4 bedroom house, 2000sqft home in parts of Westpark near the median Irvine home price (which was around $230,000).

The median sold price for a home in Irvine in today is around $480,000. What kind of TIC home does that buy you? Maybe 3 bedrooms and 1 or 2 attached walls.
I think you're proving my point... homes are roughly double and some salaries are roughly double... the cost to borrow is almost half. So for some people, it's just as affordable now as it was back then.

And at least now, you can get detached condos for around $300k+... those didn't really exist in the mid 90s... you were looking at at least attached on one wall for $150k.

Now if you're talking new... that might be a different story... but... again...for certain salaries, the numbers can work.

I only know this because a friend of mine bought a home for low $300k, and he is in the same type of job as I was back the mid 90s. He could have bought a bigger home elsewhere for that price but chose to stay in Irvine (and doesn't drive a Civic).
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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 06:12:48 PM »
In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.
If I'm not mistaken, haven't there been some attached homes for the low $300ks?
Quote
$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!
Check out Orangetree or The Willows.
Once you go 3-car garage... your junk can never go back.
3CWG: 3-Car Wide Garage
FCB: Foreign Cash Buyer
I recommend:
www.irvinerealtorsite.com
member: Soylent Green Is People (loans/refis)

Offline IndieDev

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2011, 06:13:54 PM »

I think you're proving my point... homes are roughly double and some salaries are roughly double... the cost to borrow is almost half.

Leave it to IHO to completely miss the point of housing mix and type even when it's spelled out for him.
"You are just a whining loser here hoping that Irvine house price can be 50% off so that you can afford a house here." - NonFCB
"690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500" - VillagePeople
"People are paying for something else, and labeling it "good schools". - PatStar

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2011, 06:18:38 PM »
What your friends got for $300k now is an attached project. In 1995 an attached project in Oakcreek was $120,000.



"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

Offline IndieDev

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 06:19:27 PM »
In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 06:23:38 PM by IndieDev »
"You are just a whining loser here hoping that Irvine house price can be 50% off so that you can afford a house here." - NonFCB
"690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500" - VillagePeople
"People are paying for something else, and labeling it "good schools". - PatStar

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2011, 06:24:05 PM »
In Santa Rosa Woodbury East there is a 1 br condo plan with a single car garage at about $350k. A similar one bedroom/one car plan in Oakcreek was $100k-120K in 1995.
In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.
If I'm not mistaken, haven't there been some attached homes for the low $300ks?
Quote
$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!
Check out Orangetree or The Willows.
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »
Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).
Once you go 3-car garage... your junk can never go back.
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I recommend:
www.irvinerealtorsite.com
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Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2011, 06:35:33 PM »
I remember those well. DR Horton's Verona was in the low 200k for a 2,000 sf home. In 1995 homes were priced at $110-$130/sf for detached and $90 for attached. Rather than comparing apples to lemons. Lets compare value ratios where we all understands since many are not familiar with products, history and pricing when most of you were in the cradles back then when Indie and I roamed the strawberry fields in Westpark. To go by IHO's math value ratio for condos or townhomes today should be $180/sf and detached homes $220-$260/sf with a 30' deep rear yard, 3CWG and a 3 car wide driveway.

Value ratio is at $320/sf and I doubt it will drop to $260/sf. If I factoor in 3CWG, driveway and 30' yard. The value ratio would likely be $430/sf to account for land consumption.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 06:41:01 PM by irvinehomeshopper »
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

Offline IndieDev

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2011, 06:44:10 PM »
I remember those well. DR Horton's Verona was in the low 200k for a 2,000 sf home. In 1995 homes were priced at $110-$130/sf for detached and $90 for attached. Rather than comparing apples to lemons. Lets compare value ratios where we all understands since many are not familiar with products, history and pricing when most of you were in the cradles back then when Indie and I roamed the strawberry fields in Westpark. To go by IHO's math value ratio for condos or townhomes today should be $180/sf and detached homes $220-$260/sf with a 30' deep rear yard, 3CWG and a 3 car wide driveway.

Value ratio is at $320/sf and I doubt it will drop to $260/sf.

In 1995 $150k was a townhome of a Greystone triplex in Northwood Pointe. In 2010 a unit of the Monterey Triplex in Woodbury East was $550k. It was a 366% inflation. Your figures are way off! What was $150k back then is not $300k today.

$150k was also a Brindisi single story detached resale in Westpark. Try finding a single story detached home at $300k today!

Exactly. I know I'm not taking crazy pills here. I may be an older man, but I've been living in Irvine long enough to know that prices weren't always this crazy even taking into account interest rates, and inflation. I remember when Irvine starter homes and those at the "median" were actually decent offerings.

Do you remember the detatched homes in Westpark built in 1994-1995? Some of them were on Motorcourts on the corner of Warner and Culver. They were pretty big, 2,000 sqft, 4 bedrooms, and even though they didn't have driveways, they did have decent backyards (not TIC 10 feet from the fence yards). I remember those selling in the 230,000s to 250,000s.

You can't even sniff a 4 bedroom detached in Irvine for $500,000 in 2011.

You have a great memory, I didn't even remember the tract name, but those prices sound exactly what I remember they were back then.

Simply put, if you've been living in Irvine long enough, like me and irvinehomeshopper have, it's pretty easy to see that prices outpaced salaries, and inflation by leaps and bounds. Irvine is still firmly bubbled.
"You are just a whining loser here hoping that Irvine house price can be 50% off so that you can afford a house here." - NonFCB
"690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500" - VillagePeople
"People are paying for something else, and labeling it "good schools". - PatStar

Offline IndieDev

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2011, 06:48:36 PM »
Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).

Okay that's fine, I'll be the first to admit I don't know what 2 bedroom 1 bath detached Irvine homes were selling for in 1995 (didn't even know they existed), but irvinehomeshopper does, and based on his excellent memory, he even remembered the tract name to a neighborhood I only described by cross streets, I'd trust his recollection over yours.

The thing is, you honestly don't sound like someone who has been living in Irvine since the 90s, because you seem oblivious to how badly over priced homes are in Irvine compared to that time period, especially when you think interest rates make the numbers "just as affordable now as it was back then." That's complete BS.
"You are just a whining loser here hoping that Irvine house price can be 50% off so that you can afford a house here." - NonFCB
"690k... 20% down 4.25 int rate .36 dti and you need a salary of $ 90,500" - VillagePeople
"People are paying for something else, and labeling it "good schools". - PatStar

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Average Income in Irvine
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2011, 06:52:25 PM »
You weren't looking hard enough!

Here is the price sheet from 9/95 Phase 5

Brindisi at Westpark
49 La Ronda
Irvine, CA 92714
(714) 559-0404

California Pacific Homes

Cortese-Plan 1 (from $150,000)

2 Bedrooms/2 baths 2 car garage

Amafi-Plan 2 (from $174,000)
3 Bedrooms/2 baths 2 car garage

Venezia-Plan 3 (from $190,200)
3 Bedrooms/2-1/2 baths
2 car garage

Firenze-Plan 4 (from $204,000)
3 Bedrooms/3 baths
2 car garage

I can photograph the price sheet if you want to see it.

Actually my friend bought a detached condo.

I don't think Brindisi was $150k in mid-90s... I would have seen it.

@IndieDev: What product mix am I confusing?. I'm comparing apples to apples... resale 2/1+SFRs in the mid 90s to resale 2/1+ SFRs now... something I was intimate with in the mid 90s (including attached products).
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 06:54:45 PM by irvinehomeshopper »
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

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