The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles

StarmanMBA

Active member
Educational moment courtesy of Prager U, showing how hypocritical Teslas are.  If you think children working in open pit mines in filth and danger are environmentally correct, if you think electricity prevents carbon dioxide, you need help.  Incidentally, Teslas are rated the least reliable car made in America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xh_VRrnMU
 
Legislated by idiots?for idiots?.Unicorns and Rainbows?

What If No EVs Qualify for the EV Tax Credit? It Could Happen.
But? as currently written, the material, component and assembly requirements in the Clean Vehicle Credit will immediately reduce (by a lot) the number of qualifying electric vehicles available to consumers for purchase with the tax credit.

Here?s what I mean: there are 72 EV models currently available for purchase in the United States including battery, plug-in hybrid and fuel cell electric vehicles. Seventy percent of those EVs would immediately become ineligible when the bill passes and none would qualify for the full credit when additional sourcing requirements go into effect. Zero.

Put another way, Americans who would otherwise receive the credit today (say, the family test driving a car this weekend and on the fence about whether to make the switch to an EV) will no longer be able to take advantage of this financial incentive to purchase an EV. The $7500 credit might exist on paper, but no vehicles will qualify for this purchase incentive over the next few years. That?s going to be a major setback to our collective target of 40-50 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030.
https://www.autosinnovate.org/posts/blog/what-if-no-evs-qualify-for-the-ev-tax-credit


Buying a car and want to go electric? Inflation Reduction Act extends $7,500 tax credit ? but with price, income caps

?        Among the limitations for a car to be eligible for the tax credit would be its price ? no more than $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for SUVs and trucks.

?        A new tax credit worth a maximum $4,000 for used electric vehicles would be implemented.

?        Additional vehicle requirements could make it difficult for consumers to find cars that qualify for the tax credit.

Among the limitations for a car to be eligible for the tax credit would be its price ? no more than $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for SUVs and trucks.

Another determining factor for whether a vehicle would qualify for a full or partial credit (or neither) include a requirement that the final assembly of the car would need to be in North America. Additional qualifiers include limitations on where key materials for batteries can come from and a mandate that a specified portion of battery components must be manufactured or assembled in North America.

?It?s designed to encourage domestic production in North America,? said Scott Cockerham, an attorney and partner at Orrick.

Many electric vehicles may not qualify for the credit

However, it could be difficult for cars to qualify, he said, depending on where they source their materials and where they complete the manufacturing process. The Alliance for Automotive Innovation has warned that many electric vehicles will be ineligible for the credit right off the bat.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/10/inf...rce=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail
 
Yes, the new law as written excludes almost all current EV/PHEVs because of the battery materials requirement... but just like infrastructure construction using domestic steel, there will probably be waivers for that.

The North America build requirement seems like a GM lobbying shenanigan,,, and will also exclude many auto makers but I'm sort of okay with that to create domestic jobs.
 
I?m sure there?s going to be tons of lithium, nickel, and cadmium mines opening all over the country soon?.not! ;D ;D >:D
 
For the battery material, it doesn't have to be domestic, it just has to be sourced from a trusted 3rd party... of who China is not (but I believe South Korea is).
 
Not so Joe?.

Most electric vehicles won't qualify for federal tax credit

That's mainly because of the bill's requirement that, to qualify for the credit an electric vehicle must contain a battery built in North America with minerals mined or recycled on the continent.

For an EV buyer to qualify for the full credit, 40 per cent of the metals used in a vehicle's battery must come from North America. By 2027, that required threshold would reach 80 per cent. If the metals requirement isn't met, the automaker and its buyers would be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.
https://energy.economictimes.indiat...,be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.
 
The tax rebate isn't for the vehicles.  It's for the industry to move production away from nations like China and Russian and towards countries like South Korea and Chile.

I appreciate the good laugh at Prager.
 
morekaos said:
Not so Joe?.

Most electric vehicles won't qualify for federal tax credit

That's mainly because of the bill's requirement that, to qualify for the credit an electric vehicle must contain a battery built in North America with minerals mined or recycled on the continent.

For an EV buyer to qualify for the full credit, 40 per cent of the metals used in a vehicle's battery must come from North America. By 2027, that required threshold would reach 80 per cent. If the metals requirement isn't met, the automaker and its buyers would be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.
https://energy.economictimes.indiat...,be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.

Not so bro:
https://batteriesnews.com/the-infla...et-alternative-battery-mineral-supply-chains/

Under the act, vehicles are only eligible for the credit if final assembly occurs within North America and no critical minerals are sourced from a ?foreign entity of concern,? including China and Russia.

The tax credit is then split in half based on two further conditions: (1) a percentage of battery metal value must be extracted or processed in the United States or in a partner country with a free trade agreement (FTA), or sourced from material recycled in North America; and (2) a proportion of battery components must be manufactured in North America.

South Korea is a Free Trade Partner:
https://www.trade.gov/us-free-trade-agreement-partner-countries

Maybe you should read the actual text of the bill rather than rely on the first thing that pops up on Google for your "facts".

And as I said, the reconstruction bill also required domestic steel, but companies got waivers to buy cheaper foreign steel which companies will probably try to do next year.

Time to cue the "I was just kidding" excuse?
 
Why put anything in it if you waive it anyway?  80% might as well be 100%? only mean countries are strip mining all those rare earths.  In the end useless to chase unicorns and rainbows?. ;D ;D >:D
 
morekaos said:
Why put anything in it if you waive it anyway?  80% might as well be 100%? only mean countries are strip mining all those rare earths.  In the end useless to chase unicorns and rainbows?. ;D ;D >:D

Man up? admit you didn?t read the bill and was just quoting rhetoric to fit your anti-EV sentiment.

Useless things morekaos posts.
 
USC-  Make sure you check into the tax credit if it is important for your decision.

in the rav4prime reddit, they report that the new requirements (domestic production, but rav4prime is made in Japan) go into effect when the bill is signed next week.  They report the $7,500 ends that day.

(don't vouch for the accuracy, but they did post the text of the bill)

USCTrojanCPA said:
CalBears96 said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?

2023.

Ok, I can still get my $7,500 tax credit this year.  haha
 
The whole Environmental Industrial Complex is a load of crap?in search of Unicorns and Rainbows the Pied Piper leads them off a cliff?. ;D :mad: >:D

'The Sacrifice Zone': Myanmar bears cost of green energy


The people in this northern Myanmar forest have lost a way of life that goes back generations. But if they complain, they, too, face the threat of death.

This forest is the source of several key metallic elements known as rare earths, often called the vitamins of the modern world. Rare earths now reach into the lives of almost everyone on the planet, turning up in everything from hard drives and cellphones to elevators and trains. They are especially vital to the fast-growing field of green energy, feeding wind turbines and electric car engines. And they end up in the supply chains of some of the most prominent companies in the world, including General Motors, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Tesla and Apple

But an AP investigation has found that their universal use hides a dirty open secret in the industry: Their cost is environmental destruction, the theft of land from villagers and the funneling of money to brutal militias, including at least one linked to Myanmar?s secretive military government. As demand soars for rare earths along with green energy, the abuses are likely to grow.

?This rapid push to build out mining capacity is being justified in the name of climate change,? said Julie Michelle Klinger, author of the book ?Rare Earths Frontiers,? who is leading a federal project to trace illicit energy minerals. ?There?s still this push to find the right place to mine them, which is a place that is out of sight and out of mind.?
https://apnews.com/article/technology-forests-myanmar-75df22e8d7431a6757ea4a426fbde94c
 
freedomcm said:
USC-  Make sure you check into the tax credit if it is important for your decision.

in the rav4prime reddit, they report that the new requirements (domestic production, but rav4prime is made in Japan) go into effect when the bill is signed next week.  They report the $7,500 ends that day.

(don't vouch for the accuracy, but they did post the text of the bill)

USCTrojanCPA said:
CalBears96 said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?

2023.

Ok, I can still get my $7,500 tax credit this year.  haha

The tax credit wasn't a driver in buying the car but it would suck if I lose it so that's why I asked when this new bill goes into effect.
 
qwerty said:
USC just bought a $4M home. I don?t think the 7,500 tax credit is important to his Porsche EV purchase :)

But I still want free gov't cheese if they are handing it out.  haha
 
Thank God, Oil, Gold, Palm Oil and Diamonds are such genteel and environmentally friendly operations.  If only we could return to the simpler days of children lubricating gears of running factory machines.

7567932.jpg
 
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