Author Topic: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles  (Read 1145 times)

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Offline StarmanMBA

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The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« on: August 04, 2022, 07:00:48 PM »
Educational moment courtesy of Prager U, showing how hypocritical Teslas are.  If you think children working in open pit mines in filth and danger are environmentally correct, if you think electricity prevents carbon dioxide, you need help.  Incidentally, Teslas are rated the least reliable car made in America.

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Offline morekaos

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2022, 08:20:55 AM »
Legislated by idiots…for idiots….Unicorns and Rainbows…
 
What If No EVs Qualify for the EV Tax Credit? It Could Happen.
But… as currently written, the material, component and assembly requirements in the Clean Vehicle Credit will immediately reduce (by a lot) the number of qualifying electric vehicles available to consumers for purchase with the tax credit.

Here’s what I mean: there are 72 EV models currently available for purchase in the United States including battery, plug-in hybrid and fuel cell electric vehicles. Seventy percent of those EVs would immediately become ineligible when the bill passes and none would qualify for the full credit when additional sourcing requirements go into effect. Zero.

Put another way, Americans who would otherwise receive the credit today (say, the family test driving a car this weekend and on the fence about whether to make the switch to an EV) will no longer be able to take advantage of this financial incentive to purchase an EV. The $7500 credit might exist on paper, but no vehicles will qualify for this purchase incentive over the next few years. That’s going to be a major setback to our collective target of 40-50 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030.

https://www.autosinnovate.org/posts/blog/what-if-no-evs-qualify-for-the-ev-tax-credit
 
 
Buying a car and want to go electric? Inflation Reduction Act extends $7,500 tax credit — but with price, income caps

·         Among the limitations for a car to be eligible for the tax credit would be its price — no more than $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for SUVs and trucks.

·         A new tax credit worth a maximum $4,000 for used electric vehicles would be implemented.

·         Additional vehicle requirements could make it difficult for consumers to find cars that qualify for the tax credit.

Among the limitations for a car to be eligible for the tax credit would be its price — no more than $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for SUVs and trucks.

Another determining factor for whether a vehicle would qualify for a full or partial credit (or neither) include a requirement that the final assembly of the car would need to be in North America. Additional qualifiers include limitations on where key materials for batteries can come from and a mandate that a specified portion of battery components must be manufactured or assembled in North America.

“It’s designed to encourage domestic production in North America,” said Scott Cockerham, an attorney and partner at Orrick.

Many electric vehicles may not qualify for the credit

However, it could be difficult for cars to qualify, he said, depending on where they source their materials and where they complete the manufacturing process. The Alliance for Automotive Innovation has warned that many electric vehicles will be ineligible for the credit right off the bat.


https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/10/inflation-reduction-act-extends-7500-tax-credit-for-electric-cars.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2022, 10:13:10 AM »
Yes, the new law as written excludes almost all current EV/PHEVs because of the battery materials requirement... but just like infrastructure construction using domestic steel, there will probably be waivers for that.

The North America build requirement seems like a GM lobbying shenanigan,,, and will also exclude many auto makers but I'm sort of okay with that to create domestic jobs.
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Offline morekaos

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2022, 10:15:17 AM »
I’m sure there’s going to be tons of lithium, nickel, and cadmium mines opening all over the country soon….not! ;D ;D >:D

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2022, 11:08:54 AM »
For the battery material, it doesn't have to be domestic, it just has to be sourced from a trusted 3rd party... of who China is not (but I believe South Korea is).
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Offline morekaos

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2022, 11:36:59 AM »
Not so Joe….
 
Most electric vehicles won't qualify for federal tax credit
 
That's mainly because of the bill's requirement that, to qualify for the credit an electric vehicle must contain a battery built in North America with minerals mined or recycled on the continent.

For an EV buyer to qualify for the full credit, 40 per cent of the metals used in a vehicle's battery must come from North America. By 2027, that required threshold would reach 80 per cent. If the metals requirement isn't met, the automaker and its buyers would be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.
 
https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/power/most-electric-vehicles-wont-qualify-for-federal-tax-credit/93471778#:~:text=For%20an%20EV%20buyer%20to%20qualify%20for%20the,be%20eligible%20for%20half%20the%20tax%20credit%2C%20%243%2C750.

Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2022, 12:05:56 PM »
When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?
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Offline CalBears96

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2022, 12:12:50 PM »
When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?

2023.

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Offline nosuchreality

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2022, 12:54:26 PM »
The tax rebate isn't for the vehicles.  It's for the industry to move production away from nations like China and Russian and towards countries like South Korea and Chile.

I appreciate the good laugh at Prager.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2022, 05:27:57 PM »
Not so Joe….
 
Most electric vehicles won't qualify for federal tax credit
 
That's mainly because of the bill's requirement that, to qualify for the credit an electric vehicle must contain a battery built in North America with minerals mined or recycled on the continent.

For an EV buyer to qualify for the full credit, 40 per cent of the metals used in a vehicle's battery must come from North America. By 2027, that required threshold would reach 80 per cent. If the metals requirement isn't met, the automaker and its buyers would be eligible for half the tax credit, $3,750.
 
https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/power/most-electric-vehicles-wont-qualify-for-federal-tax-credit/93471778#:~:text=For%20an%20EV%20buyer%20to%20qualify%20for%20the,be%20eligible%20for%20half%20the%20tax%20credit%2C%20%243%2C750.

Not so bro:

https://batteriesnews.com/the-inflation-reduction-act-places-big-bet-alternative-battery-mineral-supply-chains/

Quote
Under the act, vehicles are only eligible for the credit if final assembly occurs within North America and no critical minerals are sourced from a “foreign entity of concern,” including China and Russia.

The tax credit is then split in half based on two further conditions: (1) a percentage of battery metal value must be extracted or processed in the United States or in a partner country with a free trade agreement (FTA), or sourced from material recycled in North America; and (2) a proportion of battery components must be manufactured in North America.

South Korea is a Free Trade Partner:

https://www.trade.gov/us-free-trade-agreement-partner-countries

Maybe you should read the actual text of the bill rather than rely on the first thing that pops up on Google for your "facts".

And as I said, the reconstruction bill also required domestic steel, but companies got waivers to buy cheaper foreign steel which companies will probably try to do next year.

Time to cue the "I was just kidding" excuse?
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Offline morekaos

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2022, 06:22:12 PM »
Why put anything in it if you waive it anyway?  80% might as well be 100%… only mean countries are strip mining all those rare earths.  In the end useless to chase unicorns and rainbows…. ;D ;D >:D

Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2022, 08:42:06 PM »
When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?

2023.

Ok, I can still get my $7,500 tax credit this year.  haha
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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2022, 10:40:22 PM »
Why put anything in it if you waive it anyway?  80% might as well be 100%… only mean countries are strip mining all those rare earths.  In the end useless to chase unicorns and rainbows…. ;D ;D >:D

Man up… admit you didn’t read the bill and was just quoting rhetoric to fit your anti-EV sentiment.

Useless things morekaos posts.
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Offline morekaos

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2022, 10:47:40 PM »
Nobody has read that bill, not even the morons who wrote it and voted for it. ;D ;D >:D

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Offline freedomcm

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Re: The Hypocrisy of Electric Vehicles
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2022, 05:45:34 AM »
USC-  Make sure you check into the tax credit if it is important for your decision.

in the rav4prime reddit, they report that the new requirements (domestic production, but rav4prime is made in Japan) go into effect when the bill is signed next week.  They report the $7,500 ends that day.

(don't vouch for the accuracy, but they did post the text of the bill)

When does it go into effect?  2023 or retroactively to 2022?

2023.

Ok, I can still get my $7,500 tax credit this year.  haha

 

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