Author Topic: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?  (Read 516 times)

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Offline OCtoSV

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Tesla's huge lead in hardware and software engineering and manufacturing technology will enable a level of cash generation to continue innovating that the legacy brands won't be able to match without massive govt intervention, and even then where do they get the talent?

A friend at my golf club recently told me me of his test drives of the Mach E and the Model Y, and couldn't understand why anyone would choose the Mach E over a Tesla as to him it felt and drove like a "regular' car, and without Autopilot it's far from the same experience.

https://electrek.co/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-q1-2022-results/

Offline zubs

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2022, 09:05:19 AM »
The model Y:

Being a passenger while driving on the freeway in stop and go traffic is horrible because I'm not use to the gas pedal braking when you lift your foot.  So imagine my car surging ahead, then braking suddenly over and over...and do this for 1 plus hour in LA traffic.

Yah...my passengers were all dizzy by the time destination was reached.
In the future I will turn off the gas pedal regeneration or....get smoother with the go pedal.

Offline OCtoSV

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2022, 09:07:58 AM »
just turn off regen and use autopilot, though i agree the Tesla can be a roller coaster for passengers

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2022, 09:53:48 AM »
"Feather the gas"

That's what I was told when I was stubborn about one-pedal driving.

Finally got the hang of it and now I hate having to "hold the brake" in ICE cars.

The thing about Teslas is even in the lowest regen (Creep), it's still very apparent. We have another EV and their non one-pedal driving is more like an ICE car.

In that comparison between an E and a Y... as much as the minimalist interior is cool... I still prefer a driver cluster and the physical controls.

v11 of the new Tesla console is horrible... very unintuitive and often-used function are now buried.
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Offline Kenkoko

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2022, 10:17:19 AM »
I recently test drove the Mach-E and the Model Y back to back on track. I liked the Mach-E. And I'm saying this as a current model X owner with slight bias towards Tesla too.

My opinion is that the Model Y is still the better buy, but the gulf between E and Y is not big. Certainly not "couldn't understand why anyone would choose the Mach E over a Tesla" big.


Offline OCtoSV

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2022, 11:03:12 AM »
Good to hear an alternative opinion. How is the Mach E adaptive  CC - work as well as AP?

Offline CalBears96

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2022, 11:11:58 AM »
Tesla's huge lead in hardware and software engineering and manufacturing technology will enable a level of cash generation to continue innovating that the legacy brands won't be able to match without massive govt intervention, and even then where do they get the talent?

A friend at my golf club recently told me me of his test drives of the Mach E and the Model Y, and couldn't understand why anyone would choose the Mach E over a Tesla as to him it felt and drove like a "regular' car, and without Autopilot it's far from the same experience.

https://electrek.co/2022/04/20/tesla-tsla-q1-2022-results/

Was your friend test driving Model Y against Mach E GT or Select?

To say "couldn't understand why anyone would choose the Mach E over a Tesla" is a little bit disingenuous.  Model Y costs almost $20k more than Select, and that's without the $7500 rebate. Comparing Model Y against GT is more reasonable since they're in the same price range, but GT is still cheaper if you consider the $7500 rebate.

We ordered both the Model 3 and Mach E Select. I'll see how both drive. Unfortunately, it'll be a while before we get them. I'm not even sure when I'll get the Mach E since the "Place Order" tab still show "In Progress". The dealer placed the order for me on 4/1/22, but I guess Ford is still processing the orders.

Offline AW

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2022, 12:53:29 PM »
Guess if you look at the old prices of Model Y, that statement makes more sense.  Model Y was 49.9k lowest point (couple neighbors were able to snag at that price).  The performance was 59.9k


Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2022, 04:39:01 PM »
The one advantage the Y has over the ME is the Tesla supercharging.

After that, I think it's personal preference. The Y's backseat and trunk space is more spacious than the ME but the ME rides better and has a more traditional driver set up. The one thing that bugged me about the ME and all Fords (and Chrysler/Jeep/Ram) is that rotary drive knob. I like the simplicity of the drive lever in the Y.

But if I had to repurchase now... would probably get the Mach-E.
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Offline Kenkoko

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2022, 06:03:58 PM »
I think another advantage of the Y is the strong resale value.

Mach-E resale value is currently unknown.

According to Ford's bulletin of lease residual values sent to dealers, a rear-wheel-drive Mach-E Select is expected to be worth only 39% of MSRP after 3 years.

39% after 3yrs is pretty terrible

Mach-E's recent sales numbers are not encouraging either. Ford Mustang Mach-E sales in February amounted to 2,001, which is 46.5% less than in February 2021. I think March sales just went public and was down again.

https://insideevs.com/news/571003/us-ford-mache-sales-february2022/

@OCtoSV the Mach-E adaptive CC was fine. I only remember one ghost braking.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 06:10:01 PM by Kenkoko »

Offline qwerty

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2022, 09:35:00 PM »
I’m anti EV in general and after test driving a Tesla recently it confirmed my stance even more. That regen breaking was horrible.

I’m assuming people eventually learn to slowly lift their foot off that pedal to reduce the jerkiness of the regen breaking?

Offline OCtoSV

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2022, 09:25:32 AM »
I almost never used the brake in my now totaled M3 - combination of autopilot and driving it like a racecar and using the regen to quickly slow down - almost like stalling on a wave

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2022, 10:41:17 AM »
If you've ever driven manual, one-pedal driving is similar as you try to time "down-shifts" so you don't need to use your brakes.

Driving ICE cars and having to use the brake all the time seems so wasteful now... although... I do miss coasting. :)
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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2022, 10:52:41 AM »
Back to OPs original premise... does anyone find it interesting that Tesla's margins are going up... along with their prices?

This is just like gas and food prices... companies blame rising costs but that's not really the case as they are making more now than they were before.
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Offline zovall

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Re: At 19.2% Op Margin how can any Tesla competitor ever catch them?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2022, 07:39:02 PM »
Back to OPs original premise... does anyone find it interesting that Tesla's margins are going up... along with their prices?

This is just like gas and food prices... companies blame rising costs but that's not really the case as they are making more now than they were before.

When Tesla first started selling the Model 3, many were saying that their margins were not enough (or nonexistent) and they would not survive. Over the past few years, they have been slowly and steadily reducing costs and raising prices --> larger margins
They need margins to continue to invest and grow. They have gone against the grain on so many fronts and they are killing it. I hope they continue. And I hope that other companies can put out equally compelling vehicles.

 

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