Author Topic: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern  (Read 3473 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Mpark408

  • Newbie
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 5
Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« on: November 07, 2021, 12:06:18 AM »
Hi Everyone,

I’m potentially moving to the area and I wanted to see if any experts or someone who knows about this could chime in.
Essentially, my entire question surrounds the former El Toro Marine Base (AKA “MCAS El Toro” but hereafter referred to as ETMB) which is now Great Park and the level of reasonable concern one should have with newborns in the area.  I’m currently expecting and have an opportunity to buy a home within the vicinity.  Here’s a few concerns that I have:
1)   ETMB was a base built and opened in 1943 and then decommissioned in 1999 (See Picture #ELTORONOW).  During the time in which the base was operational, many regulations that restricted the use of certain materials and handling of such was either non-existent or not as stringent as they are today.
2)   Jet fuel was mishandled here as again, regulations were lax.  Dumping of this fuel into the ground caused for contamination of the water (~100-150ft below ground soil).
     A) JP-4, JP-7 are various types of jet fuel and they contain things like lead, benzene and other chemicals.  Acute exposure to JP-N type fuels have been linked to central nervous system issues and there are effects with low dosage exposure in test animals as well such as cell changes in the liver, decreased low T-cell count and other. 
3)   A solvent used for cleaning contained trichloroethylene, or TCE.  This has also seeped into the ground water due to lax regulations during the base’s active operation.  This contamination has reached as far as west of the 133 and the 5 as of 2018 (See Picture #PLUME)
     A) TCE is a known carcinogen that causes cancer and skin issues, namely, dermatitis.  It also effects the body’s central nervous system, kidneys, and is toxic if inhaled.
     B) About TCE Link https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/hazardous/topics/tce.html#health
          a) Here’s an article from the City of Irvine stating how they filter that water and use it for irrigation.  My wife had recalled that when she was walking around Irvine she saw signs stating not to drink the water.  I’m thinking this is the water from ETMB. https://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/water-quality
     A) A few concerns:
          a) Note that the EPA does not regulate private wells, only public ones.  If there are any farmers in the Irvine area using their own water supply then I’m hoping that water is up to EPA standards
          c) If this water is being used for irrigation then I’m wondering if our kid(s), dogs, etc., are able to play in the grass without risk for exposure.  Again, this isn’t drinking water but irrigation water so I’m not sure if this is protected by EPA standards.
          b) Where else is this water being used?
4)   There were multiple locations used as landfills on the base on the northeast quadrant of the base.  I haven’t done the research regarding dumping laws for military bases from the 1940s-90s but I’m wondering about the regulations against battery disposal, lead based chemicals, etc., if any (See Picture #HAZARDOUSSITES & #LANDFILL).
     A) EPA states that all drinking water in Irvine is at normal levels of lead, benzene, etc., and is safe to drink.
     B) I also checked the EPA clean up site https://ordspub.epa.gov/ords/cimc/f?p=CIMC:MAP:0::NO::P71_IDSEARCH:SF_SITE_ID|0902770 and it looks like the northeast quadrant is still on the list for clean-up and is listed as a superfund site (See picture #SUPERFUND)
5)   In the southwest quadrant of the base, paint with the ingredient Radium was wrongfully used on for planes within a hangar located here (See Picture #HAZARDOUSSITES & #RADIUMPLANTROOM). 
     A) LA Times article https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/entertainment/story/2021-04-20/a-litany-of-diseases-veterans-point-to-their-service-at-el-toro-base-had-toxic-consequences regarding soldier working in hangar 296
     B) I have surface level understanding of radiation
          a) Decay and volatility of isotopes
               •  Alpha, Beta, Gamma rays (Ra-226 produces all of these)
               •  Half-life (Half-life is approximately 1,600 years for Ra-226)
          b)What I don’t understand however is the effect of gamma ray producing elements after the physical removal of them from the general vicinity. Can anyone chime in here?

Thank you in advance!

#ELTORONOW


#HAZARDOUSSITES


#RADIUMPLANTROOM

 
#LANDFILL

 
#PLUME


#SUPERFUND

 
References:
1)   Irvine Water District – Water Quality Report 2021
     a.  https://www.irwd.com/images/pdf/services/irwd_2021_wqr_fini.pdf
2)   EPA: How to Read a Water Quality Report
     a.  https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2018-02/documents/epa-ogwdw-ccr-infographic-v5_508.pdf
3)   General Irvine Water Quality
     a.  https://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/water-quality
4)   MCAS El Toro – Radiological Assessment
     a.  https://www.navfac.navy.mil/niris/SOUTHWEST/EL_TORO_MCAS/M60050_000449.PDF
5)   Irvine Water Plume Assessment
     a.  https://www.irwd.com/images/pdf/construction/el_toro_remediation_map_2018.pdf
6)   EPA Website for the El Toro Superfund Site
     a.  https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902770
7)   EPA Website for EL Toro list of Contaminants
     a.  https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.contams&id=0902770
8)   MCAS El Toro – Master Plan (Site assessment and unofficial planning)
     a.  https://www.navfac.navy.mil/niris/SOUTHWEST/EL_TORO_MCAS/M60050_000706_0001.PDF

« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 08:27:55 AM by Mpark408 »

The following member(s) thanked this post:


Offline fatduck

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 24
  • Posts: 227
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2021, 08:11:32 AM »
im gonna go out on a limb and say you would not be happy living in great park

Offline Mpark408

  • Newbie
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 5
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2021, 08:22:49 AM »
im gonna go out on a limb and say you would not be happy living in great park

I’d like to hear your thoughts as to why.

Offline Mety

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 220
  • -Received: 277
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2021, 08:41:11 AM »
Welcome back, YF!

Offline Cares

  • Real Estate Broker & Mortgage Loan Originator
  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 14
  • -Received: 238
  • Posts: 1237
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2021, 08:51:51 AM »
im gonna go out on a limb and say you would not be happy living in great park

If you have this level of concern then you will never be satisfied or happy with any answer we can give you about the GP area. I would pick another area to buy a home.

Online eyephone

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 497
  • -Received: 778
  • Posts: 14722
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 09:16:52 AM »
 **** Welcome back Belly!****
Environmental thread part 5? lol

Hi Everyone,

I’m potentially moving to the area and I wanted to see if any experts or someone who knows about this could chime in.
Essentially, my entire question surrounds the former El Toro Marine Base (AKA “MCAS El Toro” but hereafter referred to as ETMB) which is now Great Park and the level of reasonable concern one should have with newborns in the area.  I’m currently expecting and have an opportunity to buy a home within the vicinity.  Here’s a few concerns that I have:
1)   ETMB was a base built and opened in 1943 and then decommissioned in 1999 (See Picture #ELTORONOW).  During the time in which the base was operational, many regulations that restricted the use of certain materials and handling of such was either non-existent or not as stringent as they are today.
2)   Jet fuel was mishandled here as again, regulations were lax.  Dumping of this fuel into the ground caused for contamination of the water (~100-150ft below ground soil).
     A) JP-4, JP-7 are various types of jet fuel and they contain things like lead, benzene and other chemicals.  Acute exposure to JP-N type fuels have been linked to central nervous system issues and there are effects with low dosage exposure in test animals as well such as cell changes in the liver, decreased low T-cell count and other. 
3)   A solvent used for cleaning contained trichloroethylene, or TCE.  This has also seeped into the ground water due to lax regulations during the base’s active operation.  This contamination has reached as far as west of the 133 and the 5 as of 2018 (See Picture #PLUME)
     A) TCE is a known carcinogen that causes cancer and skin issues, namely, dermatitis.  It also effects the body’s central nervous system, kidneys, and is toxic if inhaled.
     B) About TCE Link https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/hazardous/topics/tce.html#health
          a) Here’s an article from the City of Irvine stating how they filter that water and use it for irrigation.  My wife had recalled that when she was walking around Irvine she saw signs stating not to drink the water.  I’m thinking this is the water from ETMB. https://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/water-quality
     A) A few concerns:
          a) Note that the EPA does not regulate private wells, only public ones.  If there are any farmers in the Irvine area using their own water supply then I’m hoping that water is up to EPA standards
          c) If this water is being used for irrigation then I’m wondering if our kid(s), dogs, etc., are able to play in the grass without risk for exposure.  Again, this isn’t drinking water but irrigation water so I’m not sure if this is protected by EPA standards.
          b) Where else is this water being used?
4)   There were multiple locations used as landfills on the base on the northeast quadrant of the base.  I haven’t done the research regarding dumping laws for military bases from the 1940s-90s but I’m wondering about the regulations against battery disposal, lead based chemicals, etc., if any (See Picture #HAZARDOUSSITES & #LANDFILL).
     A) EPA states that all drinking water in Irvine is at normal levels of lead, benzene, etc., and is safe to drink.
     B) I also checked the EPA clean up site https://ordspub.epa.gov/ords/cimc/f?p=CIMC:MAP:0::NO::P71_IDSEARCH:SF_SITE_ID|0902770 and it looks like the northeast quadrant is still on the list for clean-up and is listed as a superfund site (See picture #SUPERFUND)
5)   In the southwest quadrant of the base, paint with the ingredient Radium was wrongfully used on for planes within a hangar located here (See Picture #HAZARDOUSSITES & #RADIUMPLANTROOM). 
     A) LA Times article https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/entertainment/story/2021-04-20/a-litany-of-diseases-veterans-point-to-their-service-at-el-toro-base-had-toxic-consequences regarding soldier working in hangar 296
     B) I have surface level understanding of radiation
          a) Decay and volatility of isotopes
               •  Alpha, Beta, Gamma rays (Ra-226 produces all of these)
               •  Half-life (Half-life is approximately 1,600 years for Ra-226)
          b)What I don’t understand however is the effect of gamma ray producing elements after the physical removal of them from the general vicinity. Can anyone chime in here?

Thank you in advance!

#ELTORONOW


#HAZARDOUSSITES


#RADIUMPLANTROOM

 
#LANDFILL

 
#PLUME


#SUPERFUND

 
References:
1)   Irvine Water District – Water Quality Report 2021
     a.  https://www.irwd.com/images/pdf/services/irwd_2021_wqr_fini.pdf
2)   EPA: How to Read a Water Quality Report
     a.  https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2018-02/documents/epa-ogwdw-ccr-infographic-v5_508.pdf
3)   General Irvine Water Quality
     a.  https://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/water-quality
4)   MCAS El Toro – Radiological Assessment
     a.  https://www.navfac.navy.mil/niris/SOUTHWEST/EL_TORO_MCAS/M60050_000449.PDF
5)   Irvine Water Plume Assessment
     a.  https://www.irwd.com/images/pdf/construction/el_toro_remediation_map_2018.pdf
6)   EPA Website for the El Toro Superfund Site
     a.  https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902770
7)   EPA Website for EL Toro list of Contaminants
     a.  https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.contams&id=0902770
8)   MCAS El Toro – Master Plan (Site assessment and unofficial planning)
     a.  https://www.navfac.navy.mil/niris/SOUTHWEST/EL_TORO_MCAS/M60050_000706_0001.PDF

Offline Mpark408

  • Newbie
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 5
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2021, 09:26:53 AM »
im gonna go out on a limb and say you would not be happy living in great park

If you have this level of concern then you will never be satisfied or happy with any answer we can give you about the GP area. I would pick another area to buy a home.

I wouldn’t necessarily say that.  I’m curious to know about the general radius of the radiation coming from the southwest section of Great Park, if any.  If there is any radiation then I’ll just avoid Great Park instead of metaphorically throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Online TestingIrvine

  • Tourist
  • *
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 5
  • Posts: 42
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2021, 09:40:35 AM »
You’re making a decision based on advice on TI?
You already know what the answer is.

Online eyephone

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 497
  • -Received: 778
  • Posts: 14722
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2021, 09:43:15 AM »
You’re making a decision based on advice on TI?
You already know what the answer is.

He is asking the question, but already know the answer.  :D

Offline Mpark408

  • Newbie
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 0
  • -Received: 1
  • Posts: 5
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2021, 09:44:34 AM »
You’re making a decision based on advice on TI?
You already know what the answer is.

I really don’t know - I’m just curious to know what people think. Hopefully they can back with some references.

Offline sleepy5136

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 4
  • -Received: 39
  • Posts: 460
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2021, 12:13:54 PM »
I feel like OP did more research than most of us on GP. If you have that much doubts and concerns, maybe it’s better you look elsewhere. The property taxes at 1.8-1.9% with no expiration is already a deterrent for a lot of folks.

The following member(s) thanked this post:


Offline Compressed-Village

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 356
  • -Received: 281
  • Posts: 2179
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2021, 01:58:28 PM »
Or is it keeping the rif-rafter out?  :) :) :)

If you on a marginalize able to afford it, you won't last with prop taxes in Irvine. Or Tustin newer better hoods.

Offline sunflower

  • Tourist
  • *
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 2
  • -Received: 2
  • Posts: 12
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2021, 02:53:59 PM »
Wow, this is the most thorough summary of the Great Park pollution issue I've ever read. Thanks for putting this together!
Heath issues related to pollution can take years to show. It is difficult to prove the connection. There are no data available to prove or disprove that Great Park pollution can negatively impact people's heath. 
It comes down to your risk tolerance level. Say if there is a 20% risk that it will affect you and your baby's health, will you be ok with it? There is an 80% chance nothing bad will happen after all.
Personally I would not want to live in Great Park because of my low risk tolerance level. The psychological burden worrying about it is probably going to impact my health more than the pollution itself.

Offline Kangen.Irvine

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 104
  • -Received: 39
  • Posts: 336
    • Change Your Water, Change Your Life!
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2021, 05:44:21 AM »
I am not trying push anything, but this raised a concern my family was recently discussing in addition to comments on a news network (KNX).

Any suggestions for water filtration due to the EWG report of levels exceeding EPA standards?

https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/system.php?pws=CA3010092

Offline Liar Loan

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 698
  • -Received: 462
  • Posts: 2166
Re: Great Park & El Toro Base / Areas of Concern
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2021, 10:01:52 AM »
What I don’t understand however is the effect of gamma ray producing elements after the physical removal of them from the general vicinity.

The following member(s) thanked this post:


 

Talk Irvine Links

[Recent Posts]
[FAQ / Rules]

Site Supporters


Recent Posts

Re: coronavirus by morekaos
[Today at 10:17:57 AM]


Re: coronavirus by zubs
[Today at 10:17:36 AM]


Re: coronavirus by eyephone
[Today at 10:07:03 AM]


Re: Black Friday and Cyber Monday Deals by momopi
[Today at 09:36:50 AM]


Re: Stock picks by momopi
[Today at 09:30:21 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal