Orchard Hills K-8 Attendance Area

With the opening of the K-8 school on the TUSD side of Orchard Hills scheduled for fall of 2010 --- but no homes in Orchard Hills on the horizon for the forseeable future, many of us living in the Myford and Hicks Canyon Elem school areas have been patiently waiting for an answer to just exactly what kids will attend the new school. There have been a few meetings to discuss the matter as far as I understand --- but had yet to see any concrete proposals until I did a google search over lunch.

If you are interested, please see the link. Essentially two draft proposals:

1) Hicks Canyon becomes K-3, and all Hicks students move to OH at 4th grade and stay until they go to Beckman in 9th. Myford students have the flex option of attending OH starting in 4th - 8th or just staying at Myford and then transitioning to Pioneer MS and then Beckman.

2) All Hicks kids transition to OH starting at 5th grade, and all Myford students living north of Champion transition to OH at 5th grade and stay through 8th. All Myford students south of Champion would go to Pioneer MS. With a child in Myford, I don't like this one because it splits Myford kids to different middle schools.

Personally I can't decide which school will be the better option. I like the idea of a brand new school --- but I also like that Pioneer is currently the highest rated MS in the county, with a very established faculty. And I suppose that school is only 10 years old.

http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/hicks/documents/OrchardHillsPlanSummaries.pdf

I have a question, is the TUSD school district on that side crowded to a point that the OH K-8 is necessary?

I ask because that would be a good reason for them to finish the school prior to the homes... but then I wonder what's going to happen once those homes get built.

[quote author="irvinehomeowner"]I have a question, is the TUSD school district on that side crowded to a point that the OH K-8 is necessary?

I ask because that would be a good reason for them to finish the school prior to the homes... but then I wonder what's going to happen once those homes get built.[/quote]

Yes, Hicks, Myford, and Pioneer are all bursting at the seams. That said, they probably don't NEED a new school until Orchard Hills starts producing some kids --- but since its ready to go this will take pressure off all three of the schools.

I imagine having a fabu new school in OH already online when the neighborhoods open will also have the net effect of driving prices as well. And the new school looks like it is going to be pretty damn fabu, for anyone who has walked up to the fence line to peek in at the construction. :-[

..

[quote author="ck"]With the opening of the K-8 school on the TUSD side of Orchard Hills scheduled for fall of 2010 --- but no homes in Orchard Hills on the horizon for the forseeable future, many of us living in the Myford and Hicks Canyon Elem school areas have been patiently waiting for an answer to just exactly what kids will attend the new school.  There have been a few meetings to discuss the matter as far as I understand --- but had yet to see any concrete proposals until I did a google search over lunch.

If you are interested, please see the link.  Essentially two draft proposals:

1) Hicks Canyon becomes K-3, and all Hicks students move to OH at 4th grade and stay until they go to Beckman in 9th.  Myford students have the flex option of attending OH starting in 4th - 8th or just staying at Myford and then transitioning to Pioneer MS and then Beckman.

2) All Hicks kids transition to OH starting at 5th grade, and all Myford students living north of Champion transition to OH at 5th grade and stay through 8th.  All Myford students south of Champion would go to Pioneer MS. With a child in Myford, I don't like this one because it splits Myford kids to different middle schools.

Personally I can't decide which school will be the better option.  I like the idea of a brand new school --- but I also like that Pioneer is currently the highest rated MS in the county, with a very established faculty.  And I suppose that school is only 10 years old.

http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/hicks/documents/OrchardHillsPlanSummaries.pdf[/quote]

I agree.  Pioneer is a great school.

[quote author="ajw522"]
Many families move to Irvine for the reason that the IUSD schools are nationally recognized. I moved to Irvine for that reason as well, and did not think that a school located in the City of Irvine would be served by TUSD, so I bought in West Irvine - BIG MISTAKE. I hope others don't make the same mistake as I did if they are hoping to buy in IUSD.[/quote]

That's why the home prices are lower in West Irvine. Not that the Tustin schools serving West Irvine are not good - they are - but they don't have the prestige of the IUSD schools. That's why you can get a newer, nicer house in West Irvine for the same price as an older house zoned in IUSD.

I don't think anyone is getting swindled or cheated, though. You've got to do your research on every aspect of a home purchase before you buy. It's the buyer's own fault if they don't check the schools first. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's my opinion.

[quote author="ajw522"]

Many families move to Irvine for the reason that the IUSD schools are nationally recognized. I moved to Irvine for that reason as well, and did not think that a school located in the City of Irvine would be served by TUSD, so I bought in West Irvine - BIG MISTAKE. I hope others don't make the same mistake as I did if they are hoping to buy in IUSD.[/quote]

Hmm...if it was that important to you to be in an IUSD you should have done a little more research when generally making the single largest purchase of your life.

I don't think your kids would go wrong being served by the TUSD schools associated with WI. They have excellent reputations as well. It may not have the cache of IUSD but they are very solid. WI probably offers a lot more value for your money right now that WB or WB East.

..

...

[quote author="ajw522"]
[quote author="traceimage"]

That's why the home prices are lower in West Irvine. Not that the Tustin schools serving West Irvine are not good - they are - but they don't have the prestige of the IUSD schools. That's why you can get a newer, nicer house in West Irvine for the same price as an older house zoned in IUSD.

I don't think anyone is getting swindled or cheated, though. You've got to do your research on every aspect of a home purchase before you buy. It's the buyer's own fault if they don't check the schools first. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's my opinion. [/quote]

I agree - I should have done more research when buying, but I also believe that schools located in Irvine should be IUSD. I have never lived in an area where that was different, and it never occurred to me to check the district is the address was Irvine.

And about home pricing, that is completely true - even my selling agent said the same thing! Plus, the quality of the homes built there are not that good - the water pressure stinks too! fyi.[/quote]

It's probably also partially your real estate agent's fault, too. I think when you were looking at West Irvine homes, your agent should have at least brought up the fact that they're zoned for Tustin schools. Especially since it sounds like you have kids and are new to the area.

...

[quote author="ajw522"]Personally, I still don't like the fact that some Irvine residents have to attend TUSD schools. I believe, if your residence address is IRVINE, you should be attending IUSD schools, and the schools in your area, ESPECIALLY if the school's address is in Irvine (ie Myford, Hicks, Beckman), should be served by Irvine Unified. For me, I am currently looking for a home in Irvine, and I just sold my house in West Irvine for that exact reason: it is served by TUSD.

With the construction of OH, I think it should fall under IUSD boundaries. I mean, it's right next to Northwood High (IUSD) and very close to Canyon View Elementary (IUSD), so why does OH, when it too has an address in Irvine, get served by TUSD?? These boundaries DO NOT make sense.

Many families move to Irvine for the reason that the IUSD schools are nationally recognized. I moved to Irvine for that reason as well, and did not think that a school located in the City of Irvine would be served by TUSD, so I bought in West Irvine - BIG MISTAKE. I hope others don't make the same mistake as I did if they are hoping to buy in IUSD.[/quote]

Do you actually have any children who have attended a public school? I'm going to guess no, because your assertion that the "test score" is the determining factor in the quality of a school sounds just as uninformed as you were when you purchased a house in the wrong school district. I can't imagine any parent of a school aged child would purchase a house without independently verifying the assigned schools.

I also ask because I can't imagine you would make the statements you do if had ever had a child at Myford Elementary. Because if you did you would have realized how little the district matters, and how much the school administration and parents matter. When you have parents willing to give their time and money to the betterment of a school, the sky is the limit. And of course without $200+ HOA's and 2% effective property tax there is a lot more of that money to go around.

I hope you are not disappointed with Woodbury. You see, before moving to West Irvine my child spent a year in a IUSD elementary school. While it was a fine school, we were "underwhelmed". Like you, perhaps we thought there was going to be some sort fireworks going off when we walked through the door. What we found was a community of parents who were largely uninvolved -- maybe they were all sitting on their hands waiting for the API score to make all right with the world, just like it sounds like you are. What I am trying to tell you is that the COMMUNITY makes the school, not the district.

With respect ranking of schools, you may wish to spend some time reading the OC Register school ranking site (and database) to see what factors make a school great beyond just the API score. For your reference, here is the article highlighting why Pioneer is the top MS in the county:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/school-197737-pioneer-students.html

But if you want to remain focused on just the API score, I must inform you that the 2009 API score of Woodbury Elem is 905 --- that's 40 pts behind the 945 scored by Myford. I'm not going to say that makes Myford a better school, but it sounds like that is what your methodology would suggest?

[quote author="ajw522"] I just sold my house in West Irvine for that exact reason: it is served by TUSD.[/quote]

^ This is why I am focusing my efforts on west Irvine and TR, specifically TUSD. Please purge your house so I can pick it up for less than other parts of Irvine. Please. What is repulsive to you becomes my opportunity. I lived in Chino for five years where 600 was considered an typical API. I do not split hairs over ten points here or there between schools ranking 800 or 900+. I think folks don't realize how lucky we are to have the options we do here.

We've been in IUSD for two years now. Westwood Basics Plus last year and Stonegate this year. Honestly, it has given me no compelling reason to want to stay. It's only made me realize how over-hyped it is. As you say, they may have a fairy godmother in TIC but they have still come to us numerous times asking for donations. " IUSD has the Irvine Company donating $2 million dollars a year to IUSD for arts programs." - While our IUSD school technically has an art program, the class is like once every few weeks (I don't remember exactly but it's not frequent. Perhaps it is more frequent for higher grades but that's all we've seen.) "TUSD is cutting all elementary music and more because they don't have much money." IUSD has the Irvine Public Schools Foundation to fundraise but TUSD also has the Tustin Public Schools Foundation. The TPSF and the city stepped forward to bring an after-school music program to 4th and 5th graders. Whether it's a school program, a city activity, or private extra-curricular lessons...the money still comes out of your pocket one way or another. I've checked out all the schools in the surrounding area now and would much prefer to be where you are. Part of that has to do with the demographic but that's a separate point.

[quote author="SoCal78"]
[quote author="ajw522"] I just sold my house in West Irvine for that exact reason: it is served by TUSD.[/quote]

^ This is why I am focusing my efforts on west Irvine and TR, specifically TUSD. Please purge your house so I can pick it up for less than other parts of Irvine. Please. What is repulsive to you becomes my opportunity. I lived in Chino for five years where 600 was considered an typical API. I do not split hairs over ten points here or there between schools ranking 800 or 900+. I think folks don't realize how lucky we are to have the options we do here.

We've been in IUSD for two years now. Westwood Basics Plus last year and Stonegate this year. Honestly, it has given me no compelling reason to want to stay. It's only made me realize how over-hyped it is. As you say, they may have a fairy godmother in TIC but they have still come to us numerous times asking for donations. " IUSD has the Irvine Company donating $2 million dollars a year to IUSD for arts programs." - While our IUSD school technically has an art program, the class is like once every few weeks (I don't remember exactly but it's not frequent. Perhaps it is more frequent for higher grades but that's all we've seen.) "TUSD is cutting all elementary music and more because they don't have much money." IUSD has the Irvine Public Schools Foundation to fundraise but TUSD also has the Tustin Public Schools Foundation. The TPSF and the city stepped forward to bring an after-school music program to 4th and 5th graders. Whether it's a school program, a city activity, or private extra-curricular lessons...the money still comes out of your pocket one way or another. I've checked out all the schools in the surrounding area now and would much prefer to be where you are. Part of that has to do with the demographic but that's a separate point.[/quote]

When I said TUSD has cut elementary music, I meant the FREE music programs. TUSD's music program is $55 dollars for 12 sessions. IUSD's is still free, and you get 2 45-minute lessons each week for the entire year.

LINK TO IUSD MUSIC: http://www.iusd.org/finearts/vocal_music.htm#elementary

LINK TO TUSD MUSIC: http://www.tpsf.net/music.htm

[quote author="ajw522"]
When I said TUSD has cut elementary music, I meant the FREE music programs. TUSD's music program is $55 dollars for 12 sessions. IUSD's is still free, and you get 2 45-minute lessons each week for the entire year.

LINK TO IUSD MUSIC: http://www.iusd.org/finearts/vocal_music.htm#elementary

LINK TO TUSD MUSIC: http://www.tpsf.net/music.htm[/quote]

AJW: By the way, welcome to the forum. It looks like we are viewing the same info as the second link you provided me is the same one I gave you in my reply. See, I don't consider the IUSD program free at all if you are paying a premium in housing costs to be in that school in the first place. Nothing is free. What costs more... $55 every 3 mos. (pay as you go and if you don't have a school child using it, you don't pay) or, say, an extra $150k (or your preferred housing premium figure) over 30 years, given- prorated by period of ownership - however, some years of which, your kids may not be in school to use these programs? You will notice the IUSD music link says the program has been cut for grades 1-3... it is only provided at some schools with the help of private funds. I notice our IUSD elementary is not on the list. That explains a lot. Oh well. I hope anybody wanting to move into the IUSD school district is aware of these details. I wasn't until I read your link. Us IUSD parents may still have to pay even more out of pocket for private lessons elsewhere in addition to the extra housing costs already being paid.

Just generally, I think there is a distinction between people who want to buy in IUSD because they think it will give their home a higher resale value, vs. people who want to buy in IUSD because they can't stand the thought of their kids attending Tustin schools.

[quote author="traceimage"]Just generally, I think there is a distinction between people who want to buy in IUSD because they think it will give their home a higher resale value, vs. people who want to buy in IUSD because they can't stand the thought of their kids attending Tustin schools. [/quote]

But is there really a premium on pricing for homes in IUSD Irvine vs. TUSD Irvine? Is price per sq ft for Northpark and West Irvine (or Tustin Ranch for that matter) really any less than IUSD? And even if there is an IUSD premium I would think it would be isolated to the villages served by Uni and Northwood HS.

Specific to the chest pounding going on here about how much better Woodbury is than TUSD, with Woodbury assigned to the 2nd tier of Irvine HS's --- and the excessive taxes and HOA's --- I'm having a hard time seeing it commanding ANY price premium over Northpark and maybe even West Irvine. Not to mention the inferior products. $700k+ to live on an alley? Really? I'd not argue one second that there is and should be a premium attached to places like Quail Hill, Turtle Rock, and Turtle Ridge. But Woodbury? Not so much.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks. But just because AJW thinks his kid needs the school board at IUSD to find success in life does not make all other schools that his kid does NOT attend suddenly incompetent.

[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="traceimage"]Just generally, I think there is a distinction between people who want to buy in IUSD because they think it will give their home a higher resale value, vs. people who want to buy in IUSD because they can't stand the thought of their kids attending Tustin schools. [/quote]

But is there really a premium on pricing for homes in IUSD Irvine vs. TUSD Irvine? Is price per sq ft for Northpark and West Irvine (or Tustin Ranch for that matter) really any less than IUSD? And even if there is an IUSD premium I would think it would be isolated to the villages served by Uni and Northwood HS.

[/quote]

I think there is. When I was looking for a house, I noticed that the houses in our price range in West Irvine were newer and nicer than those in the IUSD areas of Irvine. I don't have any data to back this up or anything, it's just purely anecdotal.

I'm just hoping that the reputation of Irvine schools will help prop up the potential resale price of my house, even if prices fall across the board...like a little safety net.

[quote author="traceimage"]
I think there is. When I was looking for a house, I noticed that the houses in our price range in West Irvine were newer and nicer than those in the IUSD areas of Irvine. I don't have any data to back this up or anything, it's just purely anecdotal.

I'm just hoping that the reputation of Irvine schools will help prop up the potential resale price of my house, even if prices fall across the board...like a little safety net.

[/quote]

Thanks for your thoughts, trace. I just looked at listings on Redfin (of course these are just asking prices) for 3+ bedroom properties --- active and under contract. 92602 (WI and NP) came in at $325 psf, Woodbury was $333 psf. Quail Hill was $390 psf. That's about what I expected to see.

[quote author="ck"]
[quote author="ajw522"]Personally, I still don't like the fact that some Irvine residents have to attend TUSD schools. I believe, if your residence address is IRVINE, you should be attending IUSD schools, and the schools in your area, ESPECIALLY if the school's address is in Irvine (ie Myford, Hicks, Beckman), should be served by Irvine Unified. For me, I am currently looking for a home in Irvine, and I just sold my house in West Irvine for that exact reason: it is served by TUSD.

With the construction of OH, I think it should fall under IUSD boundaries. I mean, it's right next to Northwood High (IUSD) and very close to Canyon View Elementary (IUSD), so why does OH, when it too has an address in Irvine, get served by TUSD?? These boundaries DO NOT make sense.

Many families move to Irvine for the reason that the IUSD schools are nationally recognized. I moved to Irvine for that reason as well, and did not think that a school located in the City of Irvine would be served by TUSD, so I bought in West Irvine - BIG MISTAKE. I hope others don't make the same mistake as I did if they are hoping to buy in IUSD.[/quote]

Do you actually have any children who have attended a public school? I'm going to guess no, because your assertion that the "test score" is the determining factor in the quality of a school sounds just as uninformed as you were when you purchased a house in the wrong school district. I can't imagine any parent of a school aged child would purchase a house without independently verifying the assigned schools.

I also ask because I can't imagine you would make the statements you do if had ever had a child at Myford Elementary. Because if you did you would have realized how little the district matters, and how much the school administration and parents matter. When you have parents willing to give their time and money to the betterment of a school, the sky is the limit. And of course without $200+ HOA's and 2% effective property tax there is a lot more of that money to go around.

I hope you are not disappointed with Woodbury. You see, before moving to West Irvine my child spent a year in a IUSD elementary school. While it was a fine school, we were "underwhelmed". Like you, perhaps we thought there was going to be some sort fireworks going off when we walked through the door. What we found was a community of parents who were largely uninvolved -- maybe they were all sitting on their hands waiting for the API score to make all right with the world, just like it sounds like you are. What I am trying to tell you is that the COMMUNITY makes the school, not the district.

With respect ranking of schools, you may wish to spend some time reading the OC Register school ranking site (and database) to see what factors make a school great beyond just the API score. For your reference, here is the article highlighting why Pioneer is the top MS in the county:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/school-197737-pioneer-students.html

But if you want to remain focused on just the API score, I must inform you that the 2009 API score of Woodbury Elem is 905 --- that's 40 pts behind the 945 scored by Myford. I'm not going to say that makes Myford a better school, but it sounds like that is what your methodology would suggest?[/quote]

Yes, I had a child who attended Myford for 4 years and is now attending Pioneer until we move to Woodbury. I have not at all said that Myford and Pioneer are bad schools - they are not, and they perform very well. I know that. My methodology is not only based on test scores. Let me see if I can clear everything up.

My first post said that I believe that Irvine-address schools should be in Irvine. That is all. And I said that I hope others would do more research than I did when buying in WI if they are looking to buy in IUSD.

Pioneer and Myford are high performing schools, and I know that from personal experience. I have dealt with the administration and the parents. I know that the PTO there is great. I am not saying that Woodbury is a better school than Myford or vice-versa - I am only saying that IUSD is more well known than TUSD to be a good school district, and AS A WHOLE, Irvine Unified has better test scores at more of their schools than TUSD for one, but also more programs for students and faculty that want to keep their schools the best. They also have a lot more funding for more programs.

In my post where I said that Pioneer was not #1, THAT post was based purely on test scores. The OC Register article is interesting, and it has some good points. But when it comes down to it, it is all your own opinion. In my opinion, I find that IUSD as a whole is a better district compared to TUSD. But I am in no way saying that Myford or Pioneer are bad schools. The API proves that Pioneer continues to exceed state standards, but IUSD schools also have good APIs. I agree with you CK that when judging a school, a lot more matters than just API scores.

I hope this clears up the confusion on what my position is.