Author Topic: The Elephant in the room  (Read 1745 times)

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Offline nosuchreality

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The Elephant in the room
« on: January 11, 2021, 10:01:05 AM »
Seems pretty quiet and a lot of Republicans are trying to play off the insurrection.

You have Senator Roy Blunt trying to pretend Trump touched the hot stove and won't do it again.

Idiot right wing commentators like Candace Owens having more of a fit that Twitter took away Trumps access than at what Trump did.

At Trump's inciting, a mob broke down barricades, swarmed the capital, smashed windows, beat a Police Officer to Death, ransacked the building, Chanted Hang Mike Pence, while carrying restraint devices, weapons, and variety of items to use as battering rams and clubs.  We will gloss over the truck of molotov cocktails and weapons.

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Offline qwerty

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2021, 10:05:41 AM »
That’s how republicans roll. They ignore the actual underlying issue and deflect to some other matter to avoid the actual issue.

They did this in sports all too well. Trump made the kneeling during the national anthem a protest against the military and then like everything else it became about politics

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Offline HMart

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2021, 11:28:28 AM »
I think the country needs a non-toxic, science-based, pro-business party. Kind of like the Libertarian party, but one that is politically viable, lol

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Offline Mety

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2021, 01:24:47 PM »
You're talking about the perfect world? Where does that exist? Are you going to say I'm taunting again?

To me, both republican and democrat parties are equally corrupt and bad. It's not just this country with political problems. That's just how this world rolls.

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Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2021, 01:37:16 PM »
Sourced from Digg.com.

To me, this video is probably the most remarkable of all of the riot videos available at this time. Clear, well shot, and thorough, presenting the situation "as it was" not as people wished or believe it to be or commenting post event about it.

The video is long - 35 minutes - but take the time if you have it. Also try and watch on a monitor, not on your phone.

Spoiler Alert - the video when I watched it ended right at the point where the Capitol Police shot the protestor trying to break in so you don't have to watch that part one more time.

My .02c

SGIP

Offline nosuchreality

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2021, 02:24:12 PM »
No, that video sugar coats what happened.

The protestor getting shot going through the window, that was real.

The Police Officer getting dragged out of the doorway and down the steps beaten all the way, that was real.

The mob surging and chanting 'heave, ho!   Heave, ho!  Heave ho!'  that was real.

The mob surging around chanting hang Mike Pence, that was real.

Was there plenty of mundanity?  Sure, but make no mistake about it, just like the voice you here  telling the officers they've seen plenty getting hurt and "fuck the blue" that's the real truth of this mob.

Sourced from Digg.com.

To me, this video is probably the most remarkable of all of the riot videos available at this time. Clear, well shot, and thorough, presenting the situation "as it was" not as people wished or believe it to be or commenting post event about it.

The video is long - 35 minutes - but take the time if you have it. Also try and watch on a monitor, not on your phone.

Spoiler Alert - the video when I watched it ended right at the point where the Capitol Police shot the protestor trying to break in so you don't have to watch that part one more time.

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Offline icey

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2021, 02:28:54 PM »
Sourced from Digg.com.

To me, this video is probably the most remarkable of all of the riot videos available at this time. Clear, well shot, and thorough, presenting the situation "as it was" not as people wished or believe it to be or commenting post event about it.

The video is long - 35 minutes - but take the time if you have it. Also try and watch on a monitor, not on your phone.

Spoiler Alert - the video when I watched it ended right at the point where the Capitol Police shot the protestor trying to break in so you don't have to watch that part one more time.


So you watched ONE VIDEO and that's what you think tells the "real story"?

5 people died dude. The law and order crowd beat to death a cop, erected a noose outside, and had zip ties ready to kidnap our elected officials.

It takes Republicans literally having their own skins being put on the line to change their tune.

They are 100% responsible for the attacks

And don't think this BS is over. There is even bigger chatter right now planning more attacks for the 17th - 20th

People need to wake up. The government was almost toppled last week but you guys just think this is some sort of campout

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Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 02:47:32 PM »
Wow @Icey and @NoSuchReality.... out of that post you believe:

A) That I've not seen other videos. This one shows some of the bad, and there are others that show worse, but there aren't as many from outside the building to inside the building, through the Rotunda, etc. Few show crowd dynamics, how a group can be worked up by one or two agitators.

B) This "sugar coats" things because the person filming and editing did not wish to include a death scene. Take that up with the editor of the video if you want. If anything it incriminates the videographer who says with some measure of pride that he's "been to alot of riots this Summer" - not as a videographer is my guess. So it ends right before the shooting which IMHO is appropriate. So what? If you want to re-watch that shooting, go ahead. Other's have seen it all the number of times necessary.

C) That this video was shot anywhere near where the Capitol Police officer was beaten over the head with a fire extinguisher. There were multiple points of entry. It also doesn't show people inside other parts of the Capitol or Pelosi's office... They also erected a guillotine besides the other things mentioned. What's not shown on the video - because this one video isn't that kind of video - are the number of people outside, those who never went inside, booing these peoples actions, shouting not to break windows. Again, this isn't that kind of all encompassing video - just one of many.

This video isn't shading the story - just presenting it pretty much as the scene outside began to devolve and go inside.  If you want something more, you can get more. This is one example. Sorry it isn't a 12 hour epic of the entire thing. If you have a compelling long form video, you can share it as well. I've probably seen it already, but others might not have.

My .02c
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 02:54:15 PM by Soylent Green Is People »
My .02c

SGIP

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Offline icey

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 02:57:35 PM »
All I'm hearing in your responses is a bunch of apologizing

This is not something that demands a degree of nuance or understanding. It should be universally condemned

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Offline inv0ke-epipen

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Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 03:41:17 PM »
@Icey,

But it does deserve a degree of nuance and understanding. Here's an example why: 

Ahhnold The Governator put out a video calling the storming of the Capitol the equivalent of "Kristallnacht" which occurred in 1938. That event was the State (for the most part) and civilians (still bad) setting out on a pogrom against a specific ethnic group. The uninformed Left and MSM pushed that video out on as many platforms as possible as a great truth.  The problem here is that the DC mayhem was in no way akin to "Kristallnacht".

This riot was in many ways closer to the "Reichstag Fire" which happened in 1933. At that time the Reichstag Fire was an act of vandalism disguised as a threat against government, that resulted then - as it is happening now - in the mass round up of undesirables and the suppression of individual liberty. Is that not something we're seeing with the various de-banking of political entities (Trump campaign), de-connecting (Parler, Twitter shut downs, etc), and de-employing by unaccountable tech, business, and government bureaucrats? I know there were boycotts against professional sports teams for bending the knee, but an actual government ban against it? Were any politicians supporting the summertime riots forced from office yet - as there are now with the DC riots? The incoming government is planning on a heavy hand against these rioters and anyone who supported this President. That's why the Lincoln Project has re-started their list of undesirables - those who worked in the Trump Administration who will essentially be hounded by them.

For the curious - read up here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

So much of what the Governator and his enablers promote in that video is historically false. It's read now as "fact" by many which to me, is a dangerous path to head down.

To make this clear - There was no justification for the vandalism we saw. In no way am I suggesting rioters should escape from being locked up and eventually convicted if found guilty. Had the protestors walked to the Capitol, surrounded it, chanted away then left, no harm - no foul - a great 1st Amendment demonstration. That's something I would hope every reader can accept no matter your party politics. Once they crossed over the property line, it was a line too far.  If we don't take the time to carefully and completely review this event - understanding it's nuances to use the vernacular of @Icey - we run the great risk of free association, free expression (press) and free speech being taken away from all American's under the guise of protecting the state from bad actors.

This happened once before. To say it can't happen again is blindness.

My .02 on this. 
My .02c

SGIP

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2021, 03:52:56 PM »
@Icey,

But it does deserve a degree of nuance and understanding. Here's an example why: 

Ahhnold The Governator put out a video calling the storming of the Capitol the equivalent of "Kristallnacht" which occurred in 1938. That event was the State (for the most part) and civilians (still bad) setting out on a pogrom against a specific ethnic group. The uninformed Left and MSM pushed that video out on as many platforms as possible as a great truth.  The problem here is that the DC mayhem was in no way akin to "Kristallnacht".

This riot was in many ways closer to the "Reichstag Fire" which happened in 1933. At that time the Reichstag Fire was an act of vandalism disguised as a threat against government, that resulted then - as it is happening now - in the mass round up of undesirables and the suppression of individual liberty. Is that not something we're seeing with the various de-banking of political entities (Trump campaign), de-connecting (Parler, Twitter shut downs, etc), and de-employing by unaccountable tech, business, and government bureaucrats? I know there were boycotts against professional sports teams for bending the knee, but an actual government ban against it? Were any politicians supporting the summertime riots forced from office yet - as there are now with the DC riots? The incoming government is planning on a heavy hand against these rioters and anyone who supported this President. That's why the Lincoln Project has re-started their list of undesirables - those who worked in the Trump Administration who will essentially be hounded by them.

For the curious - read up here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

So much of what the Governator and his enablers promote in that video is historically false. It's read now as "fact" by many which to me, is a dangerous path to head down.

To make this clear - There was no justification for the vandalism we saw. In no way am I suggesting rioters should escape from being locked up and eventually convicted if found guilty. Had the protestors walked to the Capitol, surrounded it, chanted away then left, no harm - no foul - a great 1st Amendment demonstration. That's something I would hope every reader can accept no matter your party politics. Once they crossed over the property line, it was a line too far.  If we don't take the time to carefully and completely review this event - understanding it's nuances to use the vernacular of @Icey - we run the great risk of free association, free expression (press) and free speech being taken away from all American's under the guise of protecting the state from bad actors.

This happened once before. To say it can't happen again is blindness.

My .02 on this.

Again you are saying this might happen again. If it does, maybe they feds should pay you a visit. Do you know something we don’t know?

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2021, 03:55:25 PM »
I always new soy was caught up in the conspiracy by his previous posts. But to double down on nothing is wrong and it can happen again is a travesty.
Sorry that is not called a patriot to chase the elected officials.

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Offline icey

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2021, 04:06:09 PM »
Yes, defending this and trying to spin it as some potential crackdown on 1st Amendment rights is the worst double-down spin I've ever heard

I'm sure the talk radio talking points were already being made and sure enough the mental gymnastics just gets repeated as a way to save face.

All the while trying to shift the emphasis away from the wrong doers and playing the victim card.





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Offline inv0ke-epipen

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Re: The Elephant in the room
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2021, 04:10:05 PM »
I think Soy has interesting points, and would be interested to see people address them rather than yell at him and imply he is involved in planning an attack.

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