Portola Springs (PS) 4B not much farther from stuff than PS 3 and Great Park.

CogNeuroSci

Active member
I used my stopwatch to make multiple timings from Modjeska (off of Irvine Blvd) to Celeste/Brisa and vice versa. If from Talise, simply add or subtract 18 seconds, depending on which direction you turn (toward Pearblossom vs toward Portola Springs). Of course, if you're someone who would rather live in Cypress Village, then my times won't make any difference to you.

On Mon 6/1 @5PM, Celeste to Irvine Blvd: 4:04 (Celeste to Portola Springs via Pearblossom and Portola Pkwy).

On Wed 6/3 @7PM, Celeste to Irvine Blvd: 1:38 (Celeste to Portola Springs via Pearblossom and Portola Pkwy), 3:35 (to Walking Stick), 3:54 (to Still Night), 4:08 (to Irvine Blvd). Comments: There was a long red light of 55 sec on the left turn at Portola Springs.

On Fri 6/5 @11PM, Irvine Blvd to Celeste over 2 runs: 17s, 15s (to Stillnight); 35s, 35s (to Walking Stick); 1:20, 1:25 (to Portola Pkwy); 3:03 (to Celeste via Portola Pkwy and Pearblossom) and 3:04 (to Celeste via Portola Springs). Comments: Even though going via Portola Pkwy is longer distance, you can drive faster.

On Fri 6/5 @11PM, Celeste to Irvine Blvd: 1:38 (Celeste to Portola Springs via Pearblossom and Portola Pkwy), 2:38 (to Walking Stick), 2:58 (to Still Night), 3:14 (to Irvine Blvd). Comments: Red light at the left turn on Portola Springs wasn't that long.

On Fri 6/5 @11PM, Celeste to Irvine Blvd: 1:25 (Celeste to Portola Springs to Portola Pkwy), 2:21 (to Walking Stick), 2:39 (to Still Night), 2:54 (to Irvine Blvd). Comments: I was able to avoid red light at intersection with Portola Pkwy.

So, is 3-4 min to get to Irvine Blvd a negative scenario for you? In grad school on the other side of the country, I was the only grad student I knew who didn't live right by the university. Instead, I chose a city around 20 min from the university. Each morning, I would take a long country blvd drive to the fwy (or should I say hwy), cruise 10 min on the hwy into town, and another 10 min on a winding blvd into the university. It was a relaxing drive through rustic scenery that every true southern Californian should love. Yet, the other grad students kept asking me, "Why do you live out there?"

My graduate student drive reminds me a little bit of the drive from PS4B down to Irvine Blvd. But this one's ONLY 3-4 min! And BTW, if your destination requires you to get to Sand Canyon or Jeffrey or Culver, it's so fast because you can go 60 mph on Portola Pkwy!


 
If there was only some sort of technology which you could map a starting location to a destination address and get the time required to arrive...  :p
 
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)
 
qwerty said:
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)

I can bike from my home in PS to the Woodbury town center in about 10 minutes.
 
I can't rely on Google Maps estimated time. It can't take into account even of potential red lights. So I'm going to test empirically.

I read a bunch of threads in which people complained about how far Portola Springs was from everything.
 
CogNeuroSci said:
I can't rely on Google Maps estimated time. It can't take into account even of potential red lights. So I'm going to test empirically.

I read a bunch of threads in which people complained about how far Portola Springs was from everything.

I think Google Maps and Apple Maps are more accurate than you think.  They do account for red lights and even the traffic at the time you make the request, gathering speed/location data from other users using their apps that are travelling this direction.
 
aquabliss said:
CogNeuroSci said:
I can't rely on Google Maps estimated time. It can't take into account even of potential red lights. So I'm going to test empirically.

I read a bunch of threads in which people complained about how far Portola Springs was from everything.

I think Google Maps and Apple Maps are more accurate than you think.  They do account for red lights and even the traffic at the time you make the request, gathering speed/location data from other users using their apps that are travelling this direction.

Got it and I can adjust my thinking accordingly, no problem at all.

But I just did a Google Maps route at 5:37PM today (Sat) from Celeste to Irvine Blvd and it says 5 min. That's like getting stuck on a Sat at one 2-min red light or two 1-min red lights, which simply will not happen. For such a short distance, that's a pretty large difference from my actual measurements (20%-40% difference, and that's using the 5 min as the reference instead of using the 3 or 4 min). And even though I didn't write down my driving speed, I wasn't driving that fast during my measurements (52-55 mph up or down Portola Pkwy and 35-40 mph up or down Tomato Springs).

Aside from coronavirus times, I drive a lot on the fwys, and Google Maps is usually not accurate enough for me.

Regardless, whether it's 3 or 5 min, there's a cognitive phenomenon at work here, which is the real point of my thread. And that is that some people already have a dislike for Portola Springs (in general or PS4B specifically) such that the unconscious brain will come up with a host of negatives, some of which they have not consciously tested (which they could easily do and prove themselves wrong, such as "pollution from the toll fwy" and "too far away from a lot of stuff").

Finally, you're telling me that a lot of people have run a Google Maps time estimate BEFORE ruling Portola Springs or PS4B out? AND they have also run a control group comparison from the heart of the Great Park before selecting Great Park over Portola Springs (specifically over the issue of distance away from important places)?
 
paperboyNC said:
qwerty said:
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)

I can bike from my home in PS to the Woodbury town center in about 10 minutes.

Exactly. PS ain't that far from anything. Unless you want to be in Cypress Village because for some reason getting to the fwy on-ramp in 1 min is the deciding factor in whether you get to work on time or not.

Two important cognitive factors are at play here. First, studies show that people who tend to be barely late will consistently be barely late whether they live 1 min away from the fwy or 10 min away. And people who tend to be on time will consistently be on time...

Second, those who choose a Cypress Village over a Portola Springs because of CV's proximity to the fwy should need to explain to their own rational brain CV's exposure to auto exhaust pollution from one of the most heavily traveled fwys in the country.
 
qwerty said:
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)

Lol. During morning rush hour, I?ve been able to go from Portola Springs to Costa Mesa IKEA if I use hov lane in 30 minutes.
 
CogNeuroSci said:
paperboyNC said:
qwerty said:
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)

I can bike from my home in PS to the Woodbury town center in about 10 minutes.

Exactly. PS ain't that far from anything. Unless you want to be in Cypress Village because for some reason getting to the fwy on-ramp in 1 min is the deciding factor in whether you get to work on time or not.

Two important cognitive factors are at play here. First, studies show that people who tend to be barely late will consistently be barely late whether they live 1 min away from the fwy or 10 min away. And people who tend to be on time will consistently be on time...

Second, those who choose a Cypress Village over a Portola Springs because of CV's proximity to the fwy should need to explain to their own rational brain CV's exposure to auto exhaust pollution from one of the most heavily traveled fwys in the country.

.
 
I don't agree with your personal opinion (any GP is too far from the stuff I care about so we live in "old" Irvine) but I enjoyed seeing the analysis.
 
Still not sure why they haven't built a shopping center "out there".

Just build a Target and a 7/11 or Arco AM/PM gas station and that's all you need. :)
 
Shopping center at GP? Look luck with that. I'm still sure it's not getting built in another decade. Maybe 9 years since I already said this last year. :D
 
CogNeuroSci said:
So, is 3-4 min to get to Irvine Blvd a negative scenario for you?

Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, those 3-4 minutes add up and get real old real quick.
 
test said:
CogNeuroSci said:
So, is 3-4 min to get to Irvine Blvd a negative scenario for you?

Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, those 3-4 minutes add up and get real old real quick.

The short response is: Are you sure? And how do you know?

I can see how some people would be like you said. The same ol' same ol' can get tiring. Like the dues undergrads who want to go to med school or a Ph.D. program must pay when they do undergraduate "research" that spans observing 1000's of fruit flies or data entry. Or when we grow up and find that one of the biggest hassles in life is finding the time every month to sit down and pay bills, like the Acting Director of the Brain Imaging Center at a university when I witnessed him ask an undergrad to write out the check for his electric bill. Or being married to someone and you just can't stand it anymore such that you're willing to lose half of everything.

A second situation is habituation. The positive-to-negative type might be when you totally enjoy doing some psychoactive substance but you find you have to use a greater and greater dosage to get the same effect. And you do it until you drop. Or the negative-to-positive type, such as when you move permanently to a foreign country and your brain is bombarded by a nonstop cacophony of sounds (e.g., totally unnecessary honking that never stops) and you can't take it no more, so you sleep in for 2 weeks, and after that you're fine. Or the positive-to-negative-to-neutral type, like when you're totally used to being married to someone you can't stand anymore.

There's a third kind, though, and that's a transfer of learning or experience from one level to the next level (tertiary level, next "zen" level, or meta-level--what might be summed up as wisdom or enlightenment or newfound perspective). So check this out. What if you bought a house that was down the 5 fwy a little bit, say Alton Pkwy or Bake Pkwy, but was well north of the fwy. Your first visit to the model homes took what seemed like forever and you couldn't imagine enduring that for an extended period of time but you loved the home and you bought it. Over the next five years, you become numb (to the distance to the 5 fwy) such that your unconscious brain never complains about it again (like the nonstop sounds in a foreign country example) but occasionally your conscious brain brings the topic up and you wonder to yourself how amazing it is that--wow--it doesn't seem that bad anymore.

Now (moving on to the transfer) what if you buy another house (after having lived in the old house for 5 years), this time up the 5 fwy a little bit and off of Sand Canyon more or less but still around the Portola Pkwy "latitude"? Since the 5 fwy slants upward as you drive west, the vertical distance (and time) from your new home to the 5 fwy is significantly reduced. And now a negative thing that went to a neutral thing has created a mind reality that has not only transferred to a new situation but has even enhanced the mental positivity of that new situation. Can you relate? I can.

Or maybe it's none of the above (a fourth kind). What if you just--and I'll try to be concise here--love scenery and driving? I do. And the person who PM'd me yesterday, writing "I thought I was the only one...," also does.

 
paydawg said:
CogNeuroSci said:
paperboyNC said:
qwerty said:
I think a lot people have said it take about 30 minutes from portola springs to Woodbury so not sure where cogneuro is getting this information :)

I can bike from my home in PS to the Woodbury town center in about 10 minutes.

Exactly. PS ain't that far from anything. Unless you want to be in Cypress Village because for some reason getting to the fwy on-ramp in 1 min is the deciding factor in whether you get to work on time or not.

Two important cognitive factors are at play here. First, studies show that people who tend to be barely late will consistently be barely late whether they live 1 min away from the fwy or 10 min away. And people who tend to be on time will consistently be on time...

Second, those who choose a Cypress Village over a Portola Springs because of CV's proximity to the fwy should need to explain to their own rational brain CV's exposure to auto exhaust pollution from one of the most heavily traveled fwys in the country.

Instead of arguing the merits of Portola Springs over other neighborhoods, just be OK with what YOU value.  If you value Portola over Stonegate, Woodbury, CV or whatever...then great.  But just know, there's a reason why the PS neighborhoods have consistently been priced lower than the others.  OTHERS don't have a different way of valuing things.

Maybe because it's factually and indisputably farther from everything than most other communities? I just ask the question: Is it TOO far? And I add my opinion: No!

Orchard Hills is considered way up there (double entendre), right? Yet the price per sq ft is comparable across Como (OH), Verdi (OH), Lago (OH), Hillside (PS), Bluffs (PS), and Highland (PS).

Is that because Orchard Hills Reserves sucks? Maybe because the smell of All American Asphalt is devaluing the homes? Or is it because it's kind of far up there?

Or take Varenna (TRI Pointe Homes) way up high in The Groves at OH as an example. They've been having a hell of a time selling for 4 years! I like TPH as a builder and I really really like Varenna Plans 2 and 3, and I would love to live way up there. They're starting to build away from the 261 toll fwy and it's still been difficult. Is that because the Groves at OH is low-level? Or because Varenna is farther than other communities from everything?

You mentioned others don't have a different way of valuing things, but you didn't mention what that was. So I ask: What is the way others value things? What are the common factors important to people, in your opinion?

Because I'll agree with you if you say distance #1 and maybe nice area #2 and unpolluted land/air #2/3. What I've been saying is completely in line with all that.

And so I haven't argued the merits of Portola Springs over other neighborhoods (not even Cypress Village). I agree that most people have the same priorities/values when buying a home. All I've done is acknowledge the common factors of criticisms of PS (far, pollution) and then point out that those factors oftentimes are not applied equally to other neighborhoods (such as Cypress Village and Orchard Hills).

In other words, I haven't said even once that Portola Springs is better. What I have done is assert that many people have an unconscious and/or conscious bias against PS.

 
test said:
CogNeuroSci said:
So, is 3-4 min to get to Irvine Blvd a negative scenario for you?

Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, those 3-4 minutes add up and get real old real quick.

Would you say the same thing about OH...time to freeway is probably about the same, both PS and OH are relatively close to the toll roads too.  And what if there was no market back at the OH plaza (which there wasn't for a while), would you have bought OH when there was no market?  I'm just trying to get other viewpoints, every one is different. 
 
I lived in the picturesque ;) Portola Springs area of town for a number of years.  I was definitely skinnier there then when I lived in Woodbury (Trabuco/Jeffrey).  Less inclination to drive the extra 5 minutes to get boba/random snacks/etc.  But I guess with door dash, it all doesn't matter.
 
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