Is 1800 sq ft too small for a 4br?

Irvine2020

New member
I?m considering Portola Springs Talise Plan 1 right under 900k.
Would you consider 1800 sq ft being too small for a 4 bedroom house and would this be an issue later for resale?

Also, any and all opinions on Talise Plan 1 would be appreciated. Here are my thoughts on Talise so far.

Pros:
1. Like the courtyard
2. LOVE the high ceilings
3. Like being high up on the hills
4. Like secluded less crowded feel of Talise compared to other neighborhoods
5. Close to elementary school

Cons:
1. Closer to landfill/highway
2. Further from Irvine Blvd
3. Have been reading comments here about Talise developers  having a hard time selling compared to other PS neighborhoods
4.
 
"Too small" is all relative to you and your lifestyle needs. I think Talise' slow sales has been due to location because it's a replica of Trellis Court in CVE which sold very quickly. Look at some other homes in GP/Portola Springs that have a similar square footage but 3 bedrooms, for a comparison. Good luck!
 
Certainly its relative but we are renting a 4bd in Woodbridge that is 1850+ but less than 1900 and its been perfect for our family. We would love to buy our house but alas its not for sale and we are actively looking but is all about price and unfortunately I don?t see a drop coming soon.
 
For most people 1800 feels small, let alone with 4 bedrooms so the common areas suffer. It also doesn?t leave you with any ?future proofing? in case a relative or new baby comes along and cramps things further.
 
CalPac is a builder that has been known to build very efficient floor plans and I've been told by my clients that their floor plans feel bigger than the actual square footage. Sales has slowed down on Talise since March just like most other builders in Irvine. I remember in Jan/Feb, they only had a few unsold quicker move in homes.
 
I don't think 1800sft is too small... one of our previous homes was that size and that was before the great room concept so we also had a living room and formal dining and it all fit! :)
 
Just looked at the floorplan for Talise 1... looks pretty good. I like that it has a downstairs powder AND bath.

Interesting you can fit a kitchenette into the downstairs bedroom.

There is room for a loft but you would lose the vaulted ceiling over the living room and you would need to lose some space in the master closet or other bedroom to provide access to it.
 
Irvine2020 said:
I%u2019m considering Portola Springs Talise Plan 1 right under 900k.
Would you consider 1800 sq ft being too small for a 4 bedroom house and would this be an issue later for resale?

Also, any and all opinions on Talise Plan 1 would be appreciated. Here are my thoughts on Talise so far.

Pros:
1. Like the courtyard
2. LOVE the high ceilings
3. Like being high up on the hills
4. Like secluded less crowded feel of Talise compared to other neighborhoods
5. Close to elementary school

Cons:
1. Closer to landfill/highway
2. Further from Irvine Blvd
3. Have been reading comments here about Talise developers  having a hard time selling compared to other PS neighborhoods
4.


With this plan and layout in mind, Irvine PAC and builders nowadays plan every square inch of the living space very well to get the most out of the home use ability and functionality for today modern family. In the 90 and early 2000 new homes, the living room is almost a requirement, even for a home two stories with 2000 sqft space. When you go into these homes in those era, the living room often setup with couch and a coffee tables but does NOT get use very often and collect dusts. Often the living is minimum of 14 X 14 = 196. So close 200 sqft of very little use.

Today builders want maximize use of every room. Furthermore, yet the most important of a house is the price. If 200 sqft more will push the price close to 1 Mil. It will limit the demographic and buyers base. In this decade the price of the home in great neighbor hood that smaller in size, with all the functionality  will outshine the McMansion. Your  next buyer can afford it and you can get nice gain from it while you use it to  raise your family for however long  it takes.
 
Irvine2020 said:
I?m considering Portola Springs Talise Plan 1 right under 900k.
Would you consider 1800 sq ft being too small for a 4 bedroom house and would this be an issue later for resale?

Also, any and all opinions on Talise Plan 1 would be appreciated. Here are my thoughts on Talise so far.

Pros:
1. Like the courtyard
2. LOVE the high ceilings
3. Like being high up on the hills
4. Like secluded less crowded feel of Talise compared to other neighborhoods
5. Close to elementary school

Cons:
1. Closer to landfill/highway
2. Further from Irvine Blvd
3. Have been reading comments here about Talise developers  having a hard time selling compared to other PS neighborhoods
4.

All the home builders everywhere in Irvine have been having a hard time. In Portola Springs, it's not really so much Talise but more so Brisa (both PS 4B). Even Carissa down in PS 3 is having a hard time, especially with the 3-floor plan. Brisa, Carissa's twin community, is having the most difficulty all-around but especially with, of course, the 3-floor plan. Celeste has been fine except for- you guessed it- the 3-floor plan. At Montara (PS 5A), the only plan that has a waiting list is Plan 3 (which is similar to your Talise Plan 1 as well as Celeste Plan 4X). Even Juniper (Richmond American; PS 5A) and Elderberry (KB Home; PS 5A) have been going slow during coronavirus.

Talise only has around 4 phases left. With the best lots left, they'll have no problem selling out. Talise Plan 1 has a nice enclosed courtyard (that's the "back" yard) entryway that has to be entered to get to the front door and comes with a trellis standard. I like it a lot. The chestnut brown stained door at the front of the courtyard is beautiful! I would buy it just for that door! It really is special.

However, the tall ceiling in the great room is more like around 18'. Compare it to Talise Plan 3 + 4 and Celeste Plan 4, and you'll see it's not as tall. In addition, the tall ceiling encompasses a relatively small area and there is no "over-look" from the 2nd floor, which adds to a bit of a claustrophobic feel. However, I agree you can decorate to counter this psychologically. The 1st floor bdr is perfect! It's really awesome. The 2nd floor is very nice, although there is no loft. Celeste Plan 4X has 4 bdr + loft (with "over-look" into the great room) at about the same square footage for ~$50,000 less. But I'm sure you see the entire Talise community as a step up from Celeste.

I suspect you are thinking of buying either Unit 72 or 76 from Phase 12. That's up on the north side, which is perfectly fine, because in my opinion, the toll fwy is a non-factor (because there's far less traffic on it throughout the day than on Bake Pkwy, Irvine Blvd, Portola Pkwy, or Jeffrey Blvd) and noise is minimal while inside your home. However, have you visited in the evening when the electric hum starts? I'm not sure, but I think it's from the toll hwy office building that's right above and behind Talise. I think the sound starts around 8PM when the lights up there go on. I think you need to check it out for yourself. Something's making that noise. But can you hear it inside your home?

Another thing about Talise is the anti-climactic entryway into the community. It immediately makes a hard left because directly in front is a hill (that cannot be moved). There's an island in the middle (between the enter and exit sides) with drab desert plants. Why didn't they put in colorful flowers like they did with the Celeste/Brisa entryway? I wouldn't make a purchase decision based on that, but it's really kind of disappointing. Furthermore, they could easily have built the entryway "mouth" in the middle of the community, you know?

As to your initial question, 4 bdr and no loft is perfectly fine for the 1806 sq ft of Plan 1 but only for Cal Pac Homes. No one else can do it. Have you seen the Shea Homes resale in Baker Ranch that's on the market? It's 1650 sq ft with 4 bdr and no loft. Believe it or not, it has a bdr on the 1st floor. It's a straight-line configuration from kitchen to dining area to great room (like all the Talise plans), but it's soooo tight. As is normal for Shea Homes with houses less than 2000 sq ft, the 2nd floor is super tight with tiny rooms and almost no hallway. Cal Pac saves space by taking away coat closets and laundry room counters, but that can't account for all the space savings. And it's not coming from short hallways either. Although Montara Plan 3 has a Shea Homes-like tight hallway feel on the 2nd floor (its only flaw), Talise Plans 1 + 2 have full 2nd-floor hallways at slightly over 1800 sq ft! Cal Pac tends to have good size secondary bedrooms that are at least 120 sq ft, so that can't account for the savings. And Talise Plans 1 + 2 have 1st floors with separate powder room AND full bathroom, so the space savings isn't from that. Where then is it coming from?

My conclusion is it's coming from the straight-line configuration from kitchen to dining area to great room. In this kind of configuration, which I like, the square footage from the dining area melds into the great room area. In addition, the great room width can be limited to 13' (Celeste Plan 4 and 4X), 14'1" (Montara Plan 3), and 13'9" (Talise Plan 1), respectively, without "feeling" too narrow. I believe the psychological threshold to avoid a closed-in feel is right around 13'. Anyone who has checked out the Celeste Plan 4 model home might disagree, but i'm sure the reason the great room feels small is because it's a little bit too short (by 2 ft, I estimate), not because it's too narrow. For comparison, think about the battle of cell phone screen sizes between Apple (Shea Homes) and Samsung (Cal Pac Homes). Steve Jobs said the 3.5" screen of the iPhone 1/2/3 was perfect back then and that no one would ever want a bigger screen--and he was wrong. Samsung didn't care what Jobs said and, in 2011, started stretching the psychological boundaries by inundating the market with a bunch of Galaxy S and Galaxy Note cell phones, going from 4.2" (Galaxy S2) to 5.3" (the original Galaxy Note). Today, I think most people would consider a 5.7" screen to be the minimum acceptable. Cal Pac has established the minimum great room width to be about 13', and I believe they've done this purposefully. Add 4 bedrooms to that and it adds to right around 1800 sq ft minimum. Shea Homes tried to do it in 1650 sq ft and were left with a fail.
 
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Mety said:
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Do you think he is YF/BTB? I don't think so. :)

No one said anything about YF or BTB. I'm just asking CNS questions since he seems very knowledgable.
 
Mety said:
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Actually, I've learned a ton on this forum. Thanks for the compliment, but what you call knowledge my wife calls a waste of time.

When we bought 5 years ago, I researched a ton on wood floors, tiles, quartz countertops, toxic land, landfill; and I visited around 40 new construction communities. I was totally obsessed but became dormant after we bought. Since we're back in the market again this year, the obsession has come back, for better or worse (my wife thinks the latter).

As far as environmental hazard, I think I got everything I know from this forum. The toll fwy is a non-issue. I believe (but I'm not sure) that PS 5A, 5B, and 4B are out of the toxic land range. I'm not afraid of homes being built on Indian burial sites (I've always respected souls that have passed over).

The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is the Bowerman landfill, which I'm still learning about (from this forum) and have to admit I don't know very much yet. I've decided to not let it stop us from buying in Portola Springs.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Mety said:
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Do you think he is YF/BTB? I don't think so. :)

No way, I'm definitely not them. I don't really know YF, but I've read the threads in which BTB offended everyone and then deleted all his posts but most of his posts were quoted by others.

The only reason I'm participating on this forum is because I feel I've learned so much on here regarding buying and upgrading a home.

And I didn't want to be redundant, so I've only chosen topics to post that I felt weren't covered by this forum and that I feel can help other home buyers.
 
CogNeuroSci said:
Irvine2020 said:
I?m considering Portola Springs Talise Plan 1 right under 900k.
Would you consider 1800 sq ft being too small for a 4 bedroom house and would this be an issue later for resale?

Also, any and all opinions on Talise Plan 1 would be appreciated. Here are my thoughts on Talise so far.

Pros:
1. Like the courtyard
2. LOVE the high ceilings
3. Like being high up on the hills
4. Like secluded less crowded feel of Talise compared to other neighborhoods
5. Close to elementary school

Cons:
1. Closer to landfill/highway
2. Further from Irvine Blvd
3. Have been reading comments here about Talise developers  having a hard time selling compared to other PS neighborhoods
4.

All the home builders everywhere in Irvine have been having a hard time. In Portola Springs, it's not really so much Talise but more so Brisa (both PS 4B). Even Carissa down in PS 3 is having a hard time, especially with the 3-floor plan. Brisa, Carissa's twin community, is having the most difficulty all-around but especially with, of course, the 3-floor plan. Celeste has been fine except for- you guessed it- the 3-floor plan. At Montara (PS 5A), the only plan that has a waiting list is Plan 3 (which is similar to your Talise Plan 1 as well as Celeste Plan 4X). Even Juniper (Richmond American; PS 5A) and Elderberry (KB Home; PS 5A) have been going slow during coronavirus.

Talise only has around 4 phases left. With the best lots left, they'll have no problem selling out. Talise Plan 1 has a nice enclosed courtyard (that's the "back" yard) entryway that has to be entered to get to the front door and comes with a trellis standard. I like it a lot. The chestnut brown stained door at the front of the courtyard is beautiful! I would buy it just for that door! It really is special.

However, the tall ceiling in the great room is more like around 18'. Compare it to Talise Plan 3 + 4 and Celeste Plan 4, and you'll see it's not as tall. In addition, the tall ceiling encompasses a relatively small area and there is no "over-look" from the 2nd floor, which adds to a bit of a claustrophobic feel. However, I agree you can decorate to counter this psychologically. The 1st floor bdr is perfect! It's really awesome. The 2nd floor is very nice, although there is no loft. Celeste Plan 4X has 4 bdr + loft (with "over-look" into the great room) at about the same square footage for ~$50,000 less. But I'm sure you see the entire Talise community as a step up from Celeste.

I suspect you are thinking of buying either Unit 72 or 76 from Phase 12. That's up on the north side, which is perfectly fine, because in my opinion, the toll fwy is a non-factor (because there's far less traffic on it throughout the day than on Bake Pkwy, Irvine Blvd, Portola Pkwy, or Jeffrey Blvd) and noise is minimal while inside your home. However, have you visited in the evening when the electric hum starts? I'm not sure, but I think it's from the toll hwy office building that's right above and behind Talise. I think the sound starts around 8PM when the lights up there go on. I think you need to check it out for yourself. Something's making that noise. But can you hear it inside your home?

Another thing about Talise is the anti-climactic entryway into the community. It immediately makes a hard left because directly in front is a hill (that cannot be moved). There's an island in the middle (between the enter and exit sides) with drab desert plants. Why didn't they put in colorful flowers like they did with the Celeste/Brisa entryway? I wouldn't make a purchase decision based on that, but it's really kind of disappointing. Furthermore, they could easily have built the entryway "mouth" in the middle of the community, you know?

As to your initial question, 4 bdr and no loft is perfectly fine for the 1806 sq ft of Plan 1 but only for Cal Pac Homes. No one else can do it. Have you seen the Shea Homes resale in Baker Ranch that's on the market? It's 1650 sq ft with 4 bdr and no loft. Believe it or not, it has a bdr on the 1st floor. It's a straight-line configuration from kitchen to dining area to great room (like all the Talise plans), but it's soooo tight. As is normal for Shea Homes with houses less than 2000 sq ft, the 2nd floor is super tight with tiny rooms and almost no hallway. Cal Pac saves space by taking away coat closets and laundry room counters, but that can't account for all the space savings. And it's not coming from short hallways either. Although Montara Plan 3 has a Shea Homes-like tight hallway feel on the 2nd floor (its only flaw), Talise Plans 1 + 2 have full 2nd-floor hallways at slightly over 1800 sq ft! Cal Pac tends to have good size secondary bedrooms that are at least 120 sq ft, so that can't account for the savings. And Talise Plans 1 + 2 have 1st floors with separate powder room AND full bathroom, so the space savings isn't from that. Where then is it coming from?

My conclusion is it's coming from the straight-line configuration from kitchen to dining area to great room. In this kind of configuration, which I like, the square footage from the dining area melds into the great room area. In addition, the great room width can be limited to 13' (Celeste Plan 4 and 4X), 14'1" (Montara Plan 3), and 13'9" (Talise Plan 1), respectively, without "feeling" too narrow. I believe the psychological threshold to avoid a closed-in feel is right around 13'. Anyone who has checked out the Celeste Plan 4 model home might disagree, but i'm sure the reason the great room feels small is because it's a little bit too short (by 2 ft, I estimate), not because it's too narrow. For comparison, think about the battle of cell phone screen sizes between Apple (Shea Homes) and Samsung (Cal Pac Homes). Steve Jobs said the 3.5" screen of the iPhone 1/2/3 was perfect back then and that no one would ever want a bigger screen--and he was wrong. Samsung didn't care what Jobs said and, in 2011, started stretching the psychological boundaries by inundating the market with a bunch of Galaxy S and Galaxy Note cell phones, going from 4.2" (Galaxy S2) to 5.3" (the original Galaxy Note). Today, I think most people would consider a 5.7" screen to be the minimum acceptable. Cal Pac has established the minimum great room width to be about 13', and I believe they've done this purposefully. Add 4 bedrooms to that and it adds to right around 1800 sq ft minimum. Shea Homes tried to do it in 1650 sq ft and were left with a fail.

Wow thank you so much. This is really helpful analysis!
 
CogNeuroSci said:
Mety said:
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Actually, I've learned a ton on this forum. Thanks for the compliment, but what you call knowledge my wife calls a waste of time.

When we bought 5 years ago, I researched a ton on wood floors, tiles, quartz countertops, toxic land, landfill; and I visited around 40 new construction communities. I was totally obsessed but became dormant after we bought. Since we're back in the market again this year, the obsession has come back, for better or worse (my wife thinks the latter).

As far as environmental hazard, I think I got everything I know from this forum. The toll fwy is a non-issue. I believe (but I'm not sure) that PS 5A, 5B, and 4B are out of the toxic land range. I'm not afraid of homes being built on Indian burial sites (I've always respected souls that have passed over).

The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is the Bowerman landfill, which I'm still learning about (from this forum) and have to admit I don't know very much yet. I've decided to not let it stop us from buying in Portola Springs.

Which neighborhoods are you considering from PS?
 
Irvine2020 said:
CogNeuroSci said:
Mety said:
Hey CogNeuroSci,

Any educational environmental hazard issues at Irvine for us? Your deep knowledge would greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Actually, I've learned a ton on this forum. Thanks for the compliment, but what you call knowledge my wife calls a waste of time.

When we bought 5 years ago, I researched a ton on wood floors, tiles, quartz countertops, toxic land, landfill; and I visited around 40 new construction communities. I was totally obsessed but became dormant after we bought. Since we're back in the market again this year, the obsession has come back, for better or worse (my wife thinks the latter).

As far as environmental hazard, I think I got everything I know from this forum. The toll fwy is a non-issue. I believe (but I'm not sure) that PS 5A, 5B, and 4B are out of the toxic land range. I'm not afraid of homes being built on Indian burial sites (I've always respected souls that have passed over).

The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is the Bowerman landfill, which I'm still learning about (from this forum) and have to admit I don't know very much yet. I've decided to not let it stop us from buying in Portola Springs.

Which neighborhoods are you considering from PS?

I really really wanted Talise, of course! Plan 3 is my favorite at Talise but it would stretch what we can safely afford. I was even considering Unit 17, which is a Plan 3 sandwiched between 2 other homes such that it has a small courtyard in the middle (like Celeste Plan 4/4X and Montara Plan 3) instead of the normal larger L-shaped backyard that wraps around the back of the home that they're selling for the "discount" price of $921,374. But one of the reasons you buy Plan 3 is to get that nice backyard, so I passed on it.

So I'm still going back and forth between Talise Plan 1, Celeste Plan 4X, Montara Plan 3, and Juniper Laclaire plan. Looked a little at Great Park Rise Covello (Lennar), but the plans are either 3 stories or too expensive. Although you can negotiate with Lennar in general, the eternal never-ending Mello Roos is not reasonable.
 
Irvine2020 said:
I?m considering Portola Springs Talise Plan 1 right under 900k.
Would you consider 1800 sq ft being too small for a 4 bedroom house and would this be an issue later for resale?

Also, any and all opinions on Talise Plan 1 would be appreciated. Here are my thoughts on Talise so far.

Pros:
1. Like the courtyard
2. LOVE the high ceilings
3. Like being high up on the hills
4. Like secluded less crowded feel of Talise compared to other neighborhoods
5. Close to elementary school

Cons:
1. Closer to landfill/highway
2. Further from Irvine Blvd
3. Have been reading comments here about Talise developers  having a hard time selling compared to other PS neighborhoods
4.

I made an incorrect statement regarding Talise Plan 1 in my initial post. I just went back to Talise today and ran in and out of all 4 plans in 15 min!

Plan 2 is actually the one with the slightly shorter "tall" ceiling in the great room. Plan 1 has a slanting (or vaulted) ceiling, with one side about 20 ft tall slanting down to about 17 ft on the other side. So I guess my earlier statement was partially right.

But regardless, I like Plan 1 quite a lot all-around. I prefer to have a loft (Plan 1 doesn't have one), but not everyone wants a loft.
 
Back
Top