Author Topic: California Pacific optional floor pricing  (Read 1764 times)

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Offline idowalk

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California Pacific optional floor pricing
« on: April 19, 2020, 05:36:29 PM »
Good evening everyone,

I reserved a unit by CalIfornia Pacific in Portola Spring. Just wondering if anyone of you have experiences with their design center upgrades on the flooring and possibility an estimated pricing? If this is not allow to share publicly, could you please send the information to my email? Appreciate for your help!

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Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2020, 08:25:46 PM »
Good evening everyone,

I reserved a unit by CalIfornia Pacific in Portola Spring. Just wondering if anyone of you have experiences with their design center upgrades on the flooring and possibility an estimated pricing? If this is not allow to share publicly, could you please send the information to my email? Appreciate for your help!

Save yourself a bunch of money and do the flooring after close.  Most builders, including CalPac, which charge you about 1.5-2x more than what you'll pay for flooring compared to doing it after closing (wood flooring being the biggest ripoff, I believe it's somewhere around $20/sf).
Martin Mania, CPA
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mmania001@yahoo.com
714-747-3884 cell

Often imitated....Never duplicated!

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Offline Dr. CA Real Estate

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2020, 02:11:28 AM »
Good evening everyone,

I reserved a unit by CalIfornia Pacific in Portola Spring. Just wondering if anyone of you have experiences with their design center upgrades on the flooring and possibility an estimated pricing? If this is not allow to share publicly, could you please send the information to my email? Appreciate for your help!

 Not only do they charge more, the biggest reason you don’t want to pay for upgrades from the builder is that paying for upgrades gets calculated into total purchase price of the home. That in turn is what your tax rate is calculated on. So you ended up paying tax on overpriced upgrades, exacerbating the problem.
Kris Mendoza
Platinum Realty
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ariesmail1@yahoo.com
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Offline moc

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2020, 08:59:01 AM »
We closed in October on our new construction home with Cal Pac Homes.

We priced flooring with the design center and outside contractors. The design center prices were much higher for everything except the bathrooms. Because the contractor would have had to remove and reinstall the toilets and pedestal sink in one bathroom, it was more cost effective to update our bathroom floors with the builder (although we noticed they always steered us to the most expensive tile first - we had to repeatedly ask for more budget friendly tile, ultimately there was much less choice through the design center in our budget than we would have had with an outside contractor, but we felt more comfortable having the bathrooms done and remaining untouched). We also did the epoxy coating in our garage through the builder because the difference between our outside contractor quote was only a few hundred dollars different.

We ended up going with outside contractors for all window treatments and our vinyl plank flooring which we installed throughout our home.

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Offline Cares

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2020, 12:06:07 PM »
Almost always go with 3rd party contractors because you get higher quality stuff for less money than with builders. You are paying for convenience to have the builders do it. When I bought my home new we redid everything in the kitchen and all the flooring for probably 1/3 of what the builder was looking to charge us.

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Offline PSbuyer

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2020, 08:03:07 PM »
So does that mean that you would be picking the cheapest flooring option with the builder, only to have it ripped out by the contractor? Or is there an option to forgo flooring by the builder? Is there a benefit to sticking with the builders flooring (regardless of price) because it’d be covered by the new home warranty?

Offline USCTrojanCPA

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2020, 08:28:53 PM »
So does that mean that you would be picking the cheapest flooring option with the builder, only to have it ripped out by the contractor? Or is there an option to forgo flooring by the builder? Is there a benefit to sticking with the builders flooring (regardless of price) because it’d be covered by the new home warranty?

Get carpet wherever you can as it's the easiest to remove (their free carpet). You can not close on the home without flooring. There's no benefit to having the flooring done by the builder (other than maybe the bathrooms as they'll warranty any leaks) as outside good flooring contractors will warrant their work as well.  The only flooring option that may be sense if you want to upgrading padding and carpet through the builder (good carpet and padding installed will run you about $4.00-$4.50/sf plus an extra charge for stairs). 
Martin Mania, CPA
AgencyOne
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CA CPA License # 107675
mmania001@yahoo.com
714-747-3884 cell

Often imitated....Never duplicated!

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Offline moc

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2020, 10:11:47 AM »
So does that mean that you would be picking the cheapest flooring option with the builder, only to have it ripped out by the contractor? Or is there an option to forgo flooring by the builder? Is there a benefit to sticking with the builders flooring (regardless of price) because it’d be covered by the new home warranty?

Get carpet wherever you can as it's the easiest to remove (their free carpet). You can not close on the home without flooring. There's no benefit to having the flooring done by the builder (other than maybe the bathrooms as they'll warranty any leaks) as outside good flooring contractors will warrant their work as well.  The only flooring option that may be sense if you want to upgrading padding and carpet through the builder (good carpet and padding installed will run you about $4.00-$4.50/sf plus an extra charge for stairs).

Martin is correct. They put "base" carpet everywhere except kitchen and bathrooms which get "base" tile for free. Have them put the base down everywhere you want an outside contractor to replace. We went with upgraded flooring in the bathrooms because it wasn't much cheaper through an outside contractor and it was good to keep the builder's warranty on the bathroom areas. The stairs, living/dining/kitchen, and bedrooms we had all base flooring torn out and replaced.

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Offline marmott

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2020, 01:04:06 PM »
If you want to keep the warranty in the bathrooms you can ask the builder to use their contractor to remove and reinstall the toilets. They usually accept this as a solution.

In addition of material being overpriced at the design studio, the quality of installation is also lacking. I was never able to have them commit to a grout width for example, every time we ended up with tiles being further apart that it needed to be (KB Homes or Toll Brothers same thing).

If you rip off the carpet you can consider donating it to Habitat for Humanity, they are usually happy to get brand new carpet and they come pick it up. You also save on the recycling fee from the installer of the new carpet.

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Offline Prototype

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2020, 08:17:37 AM »
I guess I'm the oddball out. We got all of our flooring done through the builder and had a good experience with Cal Pac's Design Studio but it really depends on the designer that you get.  My designer was awesome, she helped us find some great options that were within our budget.  She was super friendly and really trying to make everything work for us.

On the other hand, during our visits, we overheard another designer who was really trying to hard sell some other customers on options. It was interesting seeing the two different dynamics.  If you have any questions about it, feel free to PM me.

Congrats on the new house! :)

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Offline irvine buyer

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2020, 09:00:49 AM »
I guess I'm the oddball out. We got all of our flooring done through the builder and had a good experience with Cal Pac's Design Studio but it really depends on the designer that you get.  My designer was awesome, she helped us find some great options that were within our budget.  She was super friendly and really trying to make everything work for us.

On the other hand, during our visits, we overheard another designer who was really trying to hard sell some other customers on options. It was interesting seeing the two different dynamics.  If you have any questions about it, feel free to PM me.

Congrats on the new house! :)

You're not the only one.  We did all the flooring through the TayMo design center.  We installed wood and travertine look tile on the ground floor.  Pricing was slightly more expensive but not much.  The key is whether you're comparing apples to apples.  The design center contractor uses a waterproof membrane underneath the wood and tile.  That's the proper way to do it and we did not have to ask the design center to include that.  The third party contractor quote we got did not originally include the membrane but when I asked for an apples to apples quote the difference shrunk and I thought it better to have any potential flooring issues handled by the builder.

The way I see it, the design center is making a small markup from the install.  You've got to be okay with that.  I've found that builders' contractors are probably charging a similar rate as a good third party contractor would.  The benefit is that their contractors are vetted for quality and due to the repeat business they get from the builder, these contractors will stand behind their work.  I'm the kind of guy that takes a 4 foot long level and checks the entire flooring for levelness and consistency of tile spacing; and was happy with the work done on the flooring, the bath tile as well as the kitchen countertops.  Luna Marble did the countertops and they did a wonderful job on the Ogee with offset bullnose edging we chose.  That is not an easy or cheap edging option.  I called Luna a couple years after we moved in as my wife wanted to do a contrasting kitchen island countertop.  Luna's pricing was quite a bit higher than other contractors.  You can always find a cheaper contractor if you shop around but I've found that you tend to get what you pay for when it comes to quality. 

Offline CogNeuroSci

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2020, 04:11:22 AM »
Good evening everyone,

I reserved a unit by CalIfornia Pacific in Portola Spring. Just wondering if anyone of you have experiences with their design center upgrades on the flooring and possibility an estimated pricing? If this is not allow to share publicly, could you please send the information to my email? Appreciate for your help!

My wife and I are in a similar situation as you: we're in the middle of buying our 2nd home. When we bought our 1st home 5 yrs ago, I learned a lot about a few things, one of which is wood floors.

People have their reasons for going laminate or the new WPC flooring with floating system, but I'll just talk about engineered wood full glue down (please don't even think about doing floating system with wood). I'll also talk only about wood flooring using a white oak base (which is then dyed whatever color). Martin Mania already stated the design center will charge you about $20/sq ft for engineered wood (I assume that includes the wood planks, glue, and labor) so we'll use that number for comparison.

(1) The wood. Engineered wood that most normal home owners use would have surface wear layer of 2mm, 3mm, or 4mm. Typically, if it's from a big name brand, the price per sq ft is around $3 (2mm), $5 (3mm), and $7-9 (4mm). But there's a LOT of wiggle room (meaning cheaper or more expensive) across each of the common wear layer depths with the brand names.

A brand name example I'll go straight to is Provenza, which is probably THE MOST famous brand in the US. Go to any ma-and-pa hole in the wall (like in Anaheim off State College on the "Mile of Tile") and I bet they'll have a bunch of Provenza on display. Obviously, Provenza started early and gained traction with effective marketing and advertising over the years, and, of course, you're going to pay for some of that. Look closely, and there's no doubt their New York Loft collection is very high quality and includes really good designs/colors at (on average) $7/sq ft. But you won't find the wear layer depth info on Provenza's website or any seller's website, which is extremely annoying. Strike one. So you go to a seller and look at a display sample and you find that Provenza paints all the "side walls" in black so you can't measure the wear layer yourself! Strike two. My hole-in-the-wall go-to seller (I'm a loyal customer of his) told me New York Loft is 3mm. But lots of 3mm products from other name brands sell around $5/sq ft. One such example is EP Global, which is a brand that tries to compete against Provenza's New York Loft collection (they admitted it to me) by selling similar 3mm designs/colors for ~$5 (although the EP Global line is 9/16" thick and uses a eucalyptus backing whereas Provenza is 5/8" thick and uses an 8-layer plywood backing). You most probably have never heard of EP Global, and that's because it's extremely difficult for a new brand to gain traction. And so there remains Provenza, sitting pretty, yet not much different than all the other engineered wood products manufactured in many cities across China, which is 99% of the flooring in the US.

How do they meet the Chinese manufacturers? Some have connections and travel to China, say Zhejiang province, which has a place called "Wood Floor City," but most meet these manufacturers at the annual Expo in Las Vegas. There are literally hundreds of wood flooring manufacturers in China, and the trick is to establish long-term relationships with reliable factories that produce consistently high quality planks. No doubt Provenza has an exclusive contract with a really good factory, sort of like where/how In-N-Out gets their exclusive potatoes for their fries.

But even store front sellers can buy wood flooring from the Chinese manufacturers they meet in Las Vegas. Wholesale Woodfloor Warehouse (WWW), which has 4 stores (one in Santa Ana on Edinger off the 5 fwy) sells a variety of brands, of course. But they also have their own house brand: Rockwood, which has a bunch of designs that are 7.5" wide, up to 7' semi-random lengths, 4mm wear layer at $4.99/sq ft as of today (seems to hover between $5.39 and $4.99 depending on the day)! Their Rockwood line seems to be excellent quality. They told me that not all Chinese manufacturers are the same and the trick is finding a good one. They buy directly from China and slap their own "Rockwood" label on it.

The hole-in-the-wall store fronts, unlike WWW, can't buy in bulk directly from China or advertise the product. But they have another way, I found. Some of the Chinese manufacturers have set up distribution warehouses in socal (I've recently discovered that this is how EP Global works as well) and then send their sales team out to look for vendors (store fronts). My go-to local hole-in-the-wall vendor has engineered wood displays from a Chinese manufacturer. There is a strange generic sticker and handwritten 3-digit number on the back. Each design/color has a different number. The product is 7.5" width, 7' semi-random lengths, 4 mm wear layer, and the vendor is selling them to me for less than $4.99/sq ft. The product looks almost identical to WWW's Rockwood brand, but the edge is more of a full chisel bevel edge (Rockwood has a micro bevel edge).

So now I've found 2 vendors that are selling China "direct" 4mm wear layer engineered wood for under $5/sq ft! Ultimately, it comes down to the color my wife and I like the best.

BTW, don't feel bad for the hole-in-the-wall store. They're primarily general contractors. The product displays are secondary. AND don't feel like they're inferior. You can buy Provenza anywhere. Five years ago, I called all over for pricing, and my hole-in-the-wall go-to guy gave me the lowest price. I felt Provenza was too expensive so I found EP Global as a copycat alternative. Again I called around for pricing and again my hole-in-the-wall guy gave me the best price. That's how our relationship started.

But EP Global, although its 3mm planks beat Provenza New York Loft's price point, cannot match the "direct" from China sources I recently found. The conclusion here is they all have different business models and pricing strategies. I'm just excited to be learning and figuring some of this out.

(2) Labor. This is always tricky. Have you heard of someone saying that 100% of contractor work will have some kind of screw up? Yeah, welcome to the club. Even with the contractors that new home builders use. Knock on the wood floors in the model homes around the base boards and you'll eventually find a hollow area where there wasn't enough glue. Look closely enough and you'll find poor plank selection in certain areas of a model home. Like others here have said, you can sneak in while the flooring people are working on a home in an earlier phase and get their name and number. These installers will probably charge you $1.80-$2/sq ft. Independent installers (working for themselves, usually in a 2-man team) will charge $2-3/sq ft. Store fronts (general contractors) will be at least $3/sq ft.

Wherever you find the contractors (the installers), ask them how big their crew will be. Stick to 2 installers only. Do NOT allow them to bring in a team of 5 people. The reason is because they need to be working only on 1 area at a time so that you will be able to watch them closely. You need to be there for plank selection. If you have around 500-650 sq ft to be done (typical of the Cal Pac floor plans, for the 1st floor only), it should take them at least 3 days (base boards take another day). Do NOT let them talk you into doing the whole job in 1 or 2 days (that's where the 5-man team comes in!). When rushing to finish before evening, they'll be gassed, not be thinking clearly, and take shortcuts. Do NOT leave your house to pick up lunch for them. Shortcuts will be taken during that time. Always use delivery.

(3) Glue. Do NOT go cheap here. Think about it. The bulk of the money goes to the cost of the wood flooring, and you pushed your budget to get the best wood that you could afford to buy. Why would you go cheap at this point with the glue? Do NOT buy that yellow buttery Roberts glue at Home Depot. Buy the good stuff, which is more expensive. But over 500-650-1000 sq ft, it's a tiny fraction of the overall cost. So get the best: Bostik Vapor-Lock or Sika SikaBond-T21. They provide glue, moisture protection (you need that for the concrete foundation), and sound reduction (they have a ton of little black rubber balls in the glue). A general contractor told me the 2 products are exactly the same, but I haven't had the time to verify. Our current house has Vapor-Lock. These glues are very thick. Make sure the installer has worked with these glues before or at least prepare them mentally for it. They MUST use a 1/4" X 1/4" trowel. Don't be surprised if they only have a 1/8" X 1/8" trowel on hand and insist it will work. Watch the confused look on their face ("What are those black things?") as well as the fast-following bemused look on their face when their smaller trowel can't seem to push through the glue. Kindly hand them the proper trowel that you bought in ready anticipation of this sort of fiasco. Or make sure they have a 1/4" X 1/4" trowel ahead of time, say during the planning and preparation meeting with your installer. Except there probably won't be a meeting. You know why? Independent installers will invariably tell you a meeting is totally unnecessary (they don't want to spend their precious extra time), that they will go over things with you the morning of (too late, if they have to buy stuff they didn't come with prepared). So buy one for them just in case.

Do NOT listen to the contractor (the installer) tell you that the glue isn't important or all glues are good. I have talked to several general contractors (the business owners who own their own homes) and ALL OF THEM said if it was their own home, they would absolutely ONLY use Vapor-Lock or SikaBond-T21. Nothing else. Both products come in 4-gallon tubs that cost $135-150. If you're using for glue, moisture, and sound (which you should), then more glue needs to be used (hence the larger trowel). The specs say 30-35 sq ft/gal but I think for our current home, our installers were only getting about 110 sq ft for an entire 4-gal tub. Don't skimp. Remember: you only get one chance to glue. You cannot afford a failure to show up 2-5 years later.

(4) Total cost. Let's say you get Provenza New York Loft. That's $7/sq ft + $3/sq ft labor + ~$1.25/sq ft glue = $11.25/sq ft total. For our next home, I'm going with the China "direct" 4mm wear layer product from my hole-in-the-wall vendor, so my total will be ~$9/sq ft. Either way is way less than $20/sq ft from the home builder design center. Importantly, I've brought up an alternative source from which to buy wood flooring that most of the people on this forum didn't use for their own home, didn't know about, or were always afraid to go to. I think most of the stories here involved buying from a big box discount store or buying from a local independent full-service store with impressive sample displays.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 08:10:38 AM by CogNeuroSci »

Offline akkord

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2020, 07:43:47 AM »
Good evening everyone,

I reserved a unit by CalIfornia Pacific in Portola Spring. Just wondering if anyone of you have experiences with their design center upgrades on the flooring and possibility an estimated pricing? If this is not allow to share publicly, could you please send the information to my email? Appreciate for your help!

My wife and I are in a similar situation as you: we're in the middle of buying our 2nd home. When we bought our 1st home 5 yrs ago, I learned a lot about a few things, one of which is wood floors.

People have their reasons for going laminate or the new WPC flooring with floating system, but I'll just talk about engineered wood full glue down (please don't even think about doing floating system with wood). I'll also talk only about wood flooring using a white oak base (which is then dyed whatever color). Martin Mania already stated the design center will charge you about $20/sq ft for engineered wood (I assume that includes the wood planks, glue, and labor) so we'll use that number for comparison.

(1) The wood. Engineered wood that most normal home owners use would have surface wear layer of 2mm, 3mm, or 4mm. Typically, if it's from a big name brand, the price per sq ft is around $3 (2mm), $5 (3mm), and $7-9 (4mm). But there's a LOT of wiggle room (meaning cheaper or more expensive) across each of the common wear layer depths with the brand names.

A brand name example I'll go straight to is Provenza, which is probably THE MOST famous brand in the US. Go to any ma-and-pa hole in the wall (like in Anaheim off State College on the "Mile of Tile") and I bet they'll have a bunch of Provenza on display. Obviously, Provenza started early and gained traction with effective marketing and advertising over the years, and, of course, you're going to pay for some of that. Look closely, and there's no doubt their New York Loft collection is very high quality and includes really good designs/colors at (on average) $7/sq ft. But you won't find the wear layer depth info on Provenza's website or any seller's website, which is extremely annoying. Strike one. So you go to a seller and look at a display sample and you find that Provenza paints all the "side walls" in black so you can't measure the wear layer yourself! Strike two. My hole-in-the-wall go-to seller (I'm a loyal customer of his) told me New York Loft is 3mm. But lots of 3mm products from other name brands sell around $5/sq ft. One such example is EP Global, which is a brand that tries to compete against Provenza's New York Loft collection (they admitted it to me) by selling similar 3mm designs/colors for ~$5 (although the EP Global line is 9/16" thick and uses a eucalyptus backing whereas Provenza is 5/8" thick and uses an 8-layer plywood backing). You most probably have never heard of EP Global, and that's because it's extremely difficult for a new brand to gain traction. And so there remains Provenza, sitting pretty, yet not much different than all the other engineered wood products manufactured in many cities across China, which is 99% of the flooring in the US.

How do they meet the Chinese manufacturers? Some have connections and travel to China, say Zhejiang province, which has a place called "Wood Floor City," but most meet these manufacturers at the annual Expo in Las Vegas. There are literally hundreds of wood flooring manufacturers in China, and the trick is to establish long-term relationships with reliable factories that produce consistently high quality planks. No doubt Provenza has an exclusive contract with a really good factory, sort of like where/how In-N-Out gets their exclusive potatoes for their fries.

But even store front sellers can buy wood flooring from the Chinese manufacturers they meet in Las Vegas. Wholesale Woodfloor Warehouse (WWW), which has 4 stores (one in Santa Ana on Edinger off the 5 fwy) sells a variety of brands, of course. But they also have their own house brand: Rockwood, which has a bunch of designs that are 7.5" wide, up to 7" semi-random lengths, 4mm wear layer at $4.99/sq ft as of today (seems to hover between $5.39 and $4.99 depending on the day)! Their Rockwood line seems to be excellent quality. They told me that not all Chinese manufacturers are the same and the trick is finding a good one. They buy directly from China and slap their own "Rockwood" label on it.

The hole-in-the-wall store fronts, unlike WWW, can't buy in bulk directly from China or advertise the product. But they have another way, I found. Some of the Chinese manufacturers have set up distribution warehouses in socal (I've recently discovered that this is how EP Global works as well) and then send their sales team out to look for vendors (store fronts). My go-to local hole-in-the-wall vendor has engineered wood displays from a Chinese manufacturer. There is a strange generic sticker and handwritten 3-digit number on the back. Each design/color has a different number. The product is 7.5" width, 7' semi-random lengths, 4 mm wear layer, and the vendor is selling them to me for less than $4.99/sq ft. The product looks almost identical to WWW's Rockwood brand, but the edge is more of a full chisel bevel edge (Rockwood has a micro bevel edge).

So now I've found 2 vendors that are selling China "direct" 4mm wear layer engineered wood for under $5/sq ft! Ultimately, it comes down to the color my wife and I like the best.

BTW, don't feel bad for the hole-in-the-wall store. They're primarily general contractors. The product displays are secondary. AND don't feel like they're inferior. You can buy Provenza anywhere. Five years ago, I called all over for pricing, and my hole-in-the-wall go-to guy gave me the lowest price. I felt Provenza was too expensive so I found EP Global as a copycat alternative. Again I called around for pricing and again my hole-in-the-wall guy gave me the best price. That's how our relationship started.

But EP Global, although its 3mm planks beat Provenza New York Loft's price point, cannot match the "direct" from China sources I recently found. The conclusion here is they all have different business models and pricing strategies. I'm just excited to be learning and figuring some of this out.

(2) Labor. This is always tricky. Have you heard of someone saying that 100% of contractor work will have some kind of screw up? Yeah, welcome to the club. Even with the contractors that new home builders use. Knock on the wood floors in the model homes around the base boards and you'll eventually find a hollow area where there wasn't enough glue. Look closely enough and you'll find poor plank selection in certain areas of a model home. Like others here have said, you can sneak in while the flooring people are working on a home in an earlier phase and get their name and number. These installers will probably charge you $1.80-$2/sq ft. Independent installers (working off the side away from their normal company) will charge $2-3/sq ft. Store fronts (general contractors) will be at least $3/sq ft.

Wherever you find the contractors (the installers), ask them how big their crew will be. Stick to 2 installers only. Do NOT allow them to bring in a team of 5 people. The reason is because they need to be working only on 1 area at a time so that you will be able to watch them closely. You need to be there for plank selection. If you have around 500-650 sq ft to be done (typical of the Cal Pac floor plans, for the 1st floor only), it should take them at least 3 days (base boards take another day). Do NOT let them talk you into doing the whole job in 1 or 2 days (that's where the 5-man team comes in!). When rushing to finish before evening, they'll be gassed, not be thinking clearly, and take shortcuts. Do NOT leave your house to pick up lunch for them. Shortcuts will be taken during that time. Always use delivery.

(3) Glue. Do NOT go cheap here. Think about it. The bulk of the money goes to the cost of the wood flooring, and you pushed your budget to get the best wood that you could afford to buy. Why would you go cheap at this point with the glue? Do NOT buy that yellow buttery Roberts glue at Home Depot. Buy the good stuff, which is more expensive. But over 500-650-1000 sq ft, it's a tiny fraction of the overall cost. So get the best: Bostik Vapor-Lock or Sika SikaBond-T21. They provide glue, moisture protection (you need that for the concrete foundation), and sound reduction (they have a ton of little black rubber balls in the glue). A general contractor told me the 2 products are exactly the same, but I haven't had the time to verify. Our current house has Vapor-Lock. These glues are very thick. Make sure the installer has worked with these glues before or at least prepare them mentally for it. They MUST use a 1/4" X 1/4" trowel. Don't be surprised if they only have a 1/8" X 1/8" trowel on hand and insist it will work. Watch the confused look on their face ("What are those black things?") as well as the fast-following bemused look on their face when their smaller trowel can't seem to push through the glue. Kindly hand them the proper trowel that you bought in ready anticipation of this sort of fiasco. Or make sure they have a 1/4" X 1/4" trowel ahead of time, say during the planning and preparation meeting with your installer. Except there probably won't be a meeting. You know why? Independent installers will invariably tell you a meeting is totally unnecessary (they don't want to spend their precious extra time), that they will go over things with you the morning of (too late, if they have to buy stuff they didn't come with prepared). So buy one for them just in case.

Do NOT listen to the contractor (the installer) tell you that the glue isn't important or all glues are good. I have talked to several general contractors (the business owners who own their own homes) and ALL OF THEM said if it was their own home, they would absolutely ONLY use Vapor-Lock or SikaBond-T21. Nothing else. Both products come in 4-gallon tubs that cost $135-150. If you're using for glue, moisture, and sound (which you should), then more glue needs to be used (hence the larger trowel). The specs say 30-35 sq ft/gal but I think for our current home, our installers were only getting about 110 sq ft for an entire 4-gal tub. Don't skimp. Remember: you only get one chance to glue. You cannot afford a failure to show up 2-5 years later.

(4) Total cost. Let's say you get Provenza New York Loft. That's $7/sq ft + $3/sq ft labor + ~$1.25/sq ft glue = $11.25/sq ft total. For our next home, I'm going with the China "direct" 4mm wear layer product from my hole-in-the-wall vendor, so my total will be ~$9/sq ft. Either way is way less than $20/sq ft from the home builder design center. Importantly, I've brought up an alternative source from which to buy wood flooring that most of the people on this forum didn't use for their own home, didn't know about, or were always afraid to go to. I think most of the stories here involved buying from a big box discount store or buying from a local independent full-service store with impressive sample displays.

When I need to re-do flooring or any other bigger projects I'm checking in with you first.   ;D

Offline freedomcm

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 07:59:39 AM »
wow, that was incredibly educational.  I copied it out to save for later if/when I need to replace.

Offline Mety

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Re: California Pacific optional floor pricing
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2020, 10:19:45 AM »
Indeed. I'm copying into my notes also before it becomes "."

 

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