$350K salary required for middle class lifestyle in major metro areas

Thanks daedalus. BTW your handle reminds me of my favorite cartoon from my youth - Hercules.  It was interesting this devolved into a debate around the morality of childcare. While the budget has tons of fat that can be cut, the pay data for the jobs is very interesting and no one even chimed in on it.

$350K corporate jobs are not uncommon in the Bay area (especially factoring in annual RSU grants), but I suspect they are in OC which necessitates the dual income or enduring the cost and time of medical school to make $300K (as a specialist!).

My interest in posting this was to foster a discussion around how people talk about jobs and salaries with their kids that are either in college or close to entering. I took my child to an event for my alma mater last night where the keynote speakers were some VC heavyweights, which opened up a great discussion on the way home about money and careers.
 
My coworker was recently thumbing through job postings in the bay area, due to another coworker having recently departed for Apple.  Some listings for positions at my level are offering nearly 3x what I make.  My coworker started doing the math in his head, and he was certainly intrigued.  But I was not.  Why mess with what works?  I'm happy.  Wife's happy.  Kid's happy.  I couldn't have a big garage 10 minutes from work, even with that salary.  And I don't have to work over 40 hours a week most weeks.

I would love to discuss how to talk about jobs and careers (and money and personal finance) with kids.  I have a 4 year old, so too early for career talk, but personal finance is often on my mind with her.  A 4 year old sees absolutely no reason not to put every coin in their (and mom and dad's) pockets into a steel box with pleasing lights and sounds at the supermarket.  We say no a lot more often than we say yes, which seems to have at least level set her expectations.  She has a piggy bank that is full of coins, so as far as she's concerned, she's rich.  I tell her often she needs to save her money and not spend it, but I can't figure out how to get her to understand why.  Saving for a rainy day just doesn't mean anything to a 4 year old.

Recently my mother thought it would be a good idea to show granddaughter how to get money out of an ATM.  Which to me was ridiculous, since it's just showing her how to magically get money out of a steel box.  I want her to learn what it takes to put that money in there first.
 
Sometimes our lessons can have undesired effects.

When one of my kid was younger, for their bday they invited 4-5 friends to lunch at Red Robin or Ruby's or some place that has an R in it. And we left them there so they can have fun on their own and came back to settle the bill. Afterwards on the way home, our kid tells us that they told each person they only had a $10 limit and not to order anything that cost more than that. That explained why when I asked if any of them wanted dessert they declined. :(

While we appreciated the budget-mindedness, we realized that we also had to impart into them when to let the purse strings loosen a bit and that frugality is circumstantial (seems to get thrown out the window when my wife goes shopping :) ).

We are confident that our kids have a good sense of personal finance... at least one of them does. :)
 
daedalus said:
My coworker was recently thumbing through job postings in the bay area, due to another coworker having recently departed for Apple.  Some listings for positions at my level are offering nearly 3x what I make.  My coworker started doing the math in his head, and he was certainly intrigued.  But I was not.  Why mess with what works?  I'm happy.  Wife's happy.  Kid's happy.  I couldn't have a big garage 10 minutes from work, even with that salary.  And I don't have to work over 40 hours a week most weeks.

I would love to discuss how to talk about jobs and careers (and money and personal finance) with kids.  I have a 4 year old, so too early for career talk, but personal finance is often on my mind with her.  A 4 year old sees absolutely no reason not to put every coin in their (and mom and dad's) pockets into a steel box with pleasing lights and sounds at the supermarket.  We say no a lot more often than we say yes, which seems to have at least level set her expectations.  She has a piggy bank that is full of coins, so as far as she's concerned, she's rich.  I tell her often she needs to save her money and not spend it, but I can't figure out how to get her to understand why.  Saving for a rainy day just doesn't mean anything to a 4 year old.

Recently my mother thought it would be a good idea to show granddaughter how to get money out of an ATM.  Which to me was ridiculous, since it's just showing her how to magically get money out of a steel box.  I want her to learn what it takes to put that money in there first.
Click to expand...

If you are in tech, you can take a look at blind.com Tech section....the folks in bay areas top tech companies make seriously high dough $$ than here in OC...even new grads making 150-200k when considering  stock options (RSUs)
 
North CA has many advantages.  As previously mentioned in the thread there are more tech companies that pay a lot more, and being from Irvine ya'll should be used to the housing prices.  For RE investors, areas such as East Sacramento offered opportunities to buy low and sell high at 400% of purchase price.  Yes, buy at $70K and sell at $280K.  Can't say for sure we'll see the same RE cycle again, but if we do and you want to invest here make sure you have the cash to bid against other all cash offers.

North CA also have fewer people (vs South), a lot more water resources, and access to green rural areas (subject to wild fires, druggie burglars, and other hazards) with wildlife.  It's much easier to find rural property in North CA next to a river, stream, lake, etc. that has water.  If you're somehow forced to work in the city of SF, at least you can escape to a rural retreat on weekends, or round of wine tasting up Napa.

In the event of a natural or man made disaster, if the aqueduct or pumps stop running here in LA we're screwed.  In North CA you're more likely to be within reasonable distance to a river with water in it.  Fishing is also better.

What's not to like?  Here is where your neighbors are sleeping, just to have a roof over their heads:

8688.jpg



(For those who wish to help, google "The Gubbio Project").
 
Saw this post on blind about a SWE asking for advice on Total comp at Facebook....serious $$$..



First Year:
--------------
160K + 90K (360/4 initial grant) + 40K (Signing Bonus) + ~15K (10% Bonus) = 305K

Now I know Facebook gives yearly refreshers of 70K to E4 at the end of the year. Lets make this 80K for easier calculation.

Second Year:
------------------
160K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (80/4 First year refresher) + ~15K (10% Bonus) = 285K

Let us assume at the end of second year I get promoted to E5. At which point I will get 120K refresher as E5.
Also lets assume base becomes 190K (approximate number I got from levels.fyi)

Third Year:
------------
190K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 355K

I get 120K refresher again.

Fourth Year:
------------
190K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + 30K (third year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 385K

At this point my initial grant is over and all I get is refreshers from previous years.

Fifth Year:
------------
190K + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + 30K (third year refresher) + 30K (fourth year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 325K
 
Irvinehomeseeker said:
Saw this post on blind about a SWE asking for advice on Total comp at Facebook....serious $$$..in 4 yrs they easily make over 1 mil



First Year:
--------------
160K + 90K (360/4 initial grant) + 40K (Signing Bonus) + ~15K (10% Bonus) = 305K

Now I know Facebook gives yearly refreshers of 70K to E4 at the end of the year. Lets make this 80K for easier calculation.

Second Year:
------------------
160K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (80/4 First year refresher) + ~15K (10% Bonus) = 285K

Let us assume at the end of second year I get promoted to E5. At which point I will get 120K refresher as E5.
Also lets assume base becomes 190K (approximate number I got from levels.fyi)

Third Year:
------------
190K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 355K

I get 120K refresher again.

Fourth Year:
------------
190K + 90K (initial grant) + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + 30K (third year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 385K

At this point my initial grant is over and all I get is refreshers from previous years.

Fifth Year:
------------
190K + 20K (first year refresher) + 30K (second year refresher) + 30K (third year refresher) + 30K (fourth year refresher) + ~25K (15% Bonus) = 325K
Click to expand...
 
Big $$ at all levels, and absolutely critical to make sure our children understand how different the compensation looks when they're starting their careers. The Google HQ being built in San Jose will be transformative.
 
momopi said:
North CA has many advantages.  As previously mentioned in the thread there are more tech companies that pay a lot more, and being from Irvine ya'll should be used to the housing prices.  For RE investors, areas such as East Sacramento offered opportunities to buy low and sell high at 400% of purchase price.  Yes, buy at $70K and sell at $280K.  Can't say for sure we'll see the same RE cycle again, but if we do and you want to invest here make sure you have the cash to bid against other all cash offers.

North CA also have fewer people (vs South), a lot more water resources, and access to green rural areas (subject to wild fires, druggie burglars, and other hazards) with wildlife.  It's much easier to find rural property in North CA next to a river, stream, lake, etc. that has water.  If you're somehow forced to work in the city of SF, at least you can escape to a rural retreat on weekends, or round of wine tasting up Napa.

In the event of a natural or man made disaster, if the aqueduct or pumps stop running here in LA we're screwed.  In North CA you're more likely to be within reasonable distance to a river with water in it.  Fishing is also better.

What's not to like?  Here is where your neighbors are sleeping, just to have a roof over their heads:

8688.jpg



(For those who wish to help, google "The Gubbio Project").
Click to expand...

That looks like the final scene in "Soylent Green"...Tell them!!!
https://youtu.be/9IKVj4l5GU4

https://youtu.be/9IKVj4l5GU4
 
For Valentine's Day, my wife and I, along with our daughter, walked to a restaurant in town for a rare dinner out.  Along the way my wife spotted a quarter on the ground and had our daughter "find it".  We have instilled excitement in her over finding money.  Later, at the restaurant waiting for our food, out daughter proffered the quarter to my wife, saying "Mommy, you can have this because I know you don't have much money."  It melted our hearts, and was hilarious too. 

So she's hearing a personal finance message from us at least.  We just need to craft it a bit better so she understands that not wanting to spend money leads to the opposite of not having money.
 
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