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Offline Mety

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2955 on: October 15, 2020, 12:49:41 PM »
Do you guys think the mask wearing is going to stick around even after the covid vaccine and good therapeutics are available?

The flu kills a decent amount of folks and bringing the flu home to elders that ends up killing them (albeit fewer of them) doesn’t seem to have any sort of stigma.

However, bringing covid home and killing grandpa has a huge stigma. It’s as if bringing covid home was preventable and bringing home the flu wasn’t preventable and therefore acceptable?

I’m just curious if the passion for saving elders at home will continue? Is the concern only about killing them with covid and not the flu?



Let's back the false equivalency bus up.

The CDC average annual flu deaths is 35,900 year for the last ten seasons. 

We're at 216K for Covid and likely have a busy four and half months to get back to February.  Projections are for 240K by election day. 

I'm a proponent of the flu being a nasty killer that people need to treat more seriously, particularly with sending their kids to school kids or going to work sick.   

The flu equivalence panned repeatedly.  The real experts are panning herd immunity through infection route.  Herd immunity is great when it's doing thru vaccines and millions don't die.  Advocating 80% of the population get a disease that are current rates means 2+ million die, we haven't really projected more have serious health impacts from it or how many stuck with 'long haul' symptoms, isn't even foolhardy, it's dangerously stupid.

More importantly, it's the kind of idiotic idea that will result in the economy being a train wreck far longer than a real rational plan for tackling the issue and getting the economy going with safeguards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all 217k deaths are not from COVID-19 alone. Even CDC announced the majority percentages of COVID death are from patients with pre-existing conditions whereas 35,900 flu number might be by influenza by itself.

IMHO, as much as comparing COVID with flu is not always the right direction, saying all 217k deaths are all from COVID alone is not really the right idea either.

Just no.  Talking point BS from the right wing propaganda sites.

If that's your conclusion, then I'm sorry to say I haven't even been or don't even know where those right wing stuff is at. I tried to reason with facts, but then I guess you're blinded by your political bias. I'm ready to be educated by you or anyone so let us know when you're ready to put political agendas aside and have a civil conversation.

Offline zubs

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2956 on: October 15, 2020, 12:54:48 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

Offline eyephone

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2957 on: October 15, 2020, 12:55:46 PM »
Healthy people can die of covid.
Keep thinking only really sick people die of covid.

I agree with the first sentence you wrote. But the second sentence became your speculation which is not true of what I'm thinking.

How shall I say it so you can understand? If you do not have a preexisting condition and you get covid. You can be alive or die.

I understand you fine. At least on this conversation. You have the knowledge and share them well. But when you start to speculate what's one someone else's mind, that's when wrong assumptions start to kick in. Not just with me, but I've seen quite a bit of you doing that with others as well. At least you are well educated on the information side though so you're alright.

I want to make sure you understand. I could of said learn how to read.
Like I previously said before: I want everybody to survive this.


Offline eyephone

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2958 on: October 15, 2020, 01:24:22 PM »
Do you guys think the mask wearing is going to stick around even after the covid vaccine and good therapeutics are available?

The flu kills a decent amount of folks and bringing the flu home to elders that ends up killing them (albeit fewer of them) doesn%u2019t seem to have any sort of stigma.

However, bringing covid home and killing grandpa has a huge stigma. It%u2019s as if bringing covid home was preventable and bringing home the flu wasn%u2019t preventable and therefore acceptable?

I%u2019m just curious if the passion for saving elders at home will continue? Is the concern only about killing them with covid and not the flu?



Let's back the false equivalency bus up.

The CDC average annual flu deaths is 35,900 year for the last ten seasons. 

We're at 216K for Covid and likely have a busy four and half months to get back to February.  Projections are for 240K by election day. 

I'm a proponent of the flu being a nasty killer that people need to treat more seriously, particularly with sending their kids to school kids or going to work sick.   

The flu equivalence panned repeatedly.  The real experts are panning herd immunity through infection route.  Herd immunity is great when it's doing thru vaccines and millions don't die.  Advocating 80% of the population get a disease that are current rates means 2+ million die, we haven't really projected more have serious health impacts from it or how many stuck with 'long haul' symptoms, isn't even foolhardy, it's dangerously stupid.

More importantly, it's the kind of idiotic idea that will result in the economy being a train wreck far longer than a real rational plan for tackling the issue and getting the economy going with safeguards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all 217k deaths are not from COVID-19 alone. Even CDC announced the majority percentages of COVID death are from patients with pre-existing conditions whereas 35,900 flu number might be by influenza by itself.

IMHO, as much as comparing COVID with flu is not always the right direction, saying all 217k deaths are all from COVID alone is not really the right idea either.

Just no.  Talking point BS from the right wing propaganda sites.

If that's your conclusion, then I'm sorry to say I haven't even been or don't even know where those right wing stuff is at. I tried to reason with facts, but then I guess you're blinded by your political bias. I'm ready to be educated by you or anyone so let us know when you're ready to put political agendas aside and have a civil conversation.

You can say this and that about being bias. But who lied to the American people that the virus is nothing? In private he said it is a deadly virus.
Until today, he says people have nothing to worry about.

If I am making it up and spreading false rumors. Then maybe you have a point. But I am not. If it was a Democrat in office and I would say something. 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 02:42:33 PM by eyephone »

Offline Mety

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2959 on: October 15, 2020, 01:52:11 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

CDC announced in late August that only 6% of people who died of COVID-19 actually have COVID-19 on their death certificate. Of course this does not mean only 6% of the official records are real COVID deaths either. But as much as the number 6% could be misleading, this "official number (217k as of today)" is misleading in so many ways. There is no clear record of solely COVID death. Most people just take the number 217k and say that many people died out of COVID whereas many of them were actually already dying with other complications. That is why the death certificate is important, but then that can't the be only record we can reply on either.

One thing we can try is we can compare the total death record/numbers (not just COVID death) from previous years. There was a spike in April 2020 by having about 20k more deaths and 10k more in July than the usual expected rate, but then the number goes down and now we're having about 3.8-7.8% more death rate than usual. That is still a great number, but that also speaks not all 217k deaths were solely driven by COVID. Here is the CDC record graphs you can see when you scroll down. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

If you want to believe the number as is, that's fine. No one can force you to believe something else. But I usually don't just trust the numbers they put out and tend to do a little more study myself.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 01:59:25 PM by Mety »

Offline Mety

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2960 on: October 15, 2020, 01:57:47 PM »
You can say this and that about being bias. But who lied to the American people that the virus is nothing? In private he said it is a deadly virus.
Until today, he says people have nothing to worry about.

If I am making it up and spreading false rumors. Then maybe you have a point. But I am not. If it was a Democrat in office and I do would say something.

I was talking to nosuchreality in that post, but I can also talk to you if you want. ;)

Just out of curiosity, if Trump was a Democrat, would you still be pointing out all those things you do now?

Offline eyephone

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2961 on: October 15, 2020, 02:03:28 PM »
You can say this and that about being bias. But who lied to the American people that the virus is nothing? In private he said it is a deadly virus.
Until today, he says people have nothing to worry about.

If I am making it up and spreading false rumors. Then maybe you have a point. But I am not. If it was a Democrat in office and I do would say something.

I was talking to nosuchreality in that post, but I can also talk to you if you want. ;)

Just out of curiosity, if Trump was a Democrat, would you still be pointing out all those things you do now?

Yes

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Offline nosuchreality

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2962 on: October 15, 2020, 02:51:18 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

CDC announced in late August that only 6% of people who died of COVID-19 actually have COVID-19 on their death certificate. Of course this does not mean only 6% of the official records are real COVID deaths either. But as much as the number 6% could be misleading, this "official number (217k as of today)" is misleading in so many ways. There is no clear record of solely COVID death. Most people just take the number 217k and say that many people died out of COVID whereas many of them were actually already dying with other complications. That is why the death certificate is important, but then that can't the be only record we can reply on either.

One thing we can try is we can compare the total death record/numbers (not just COVID death) from previous years. There was a spike in April 2020 by having about 20k more deaths and 10k more in July than the usual expected rate, but then the number goes down and now we're having about 3.8-7.8% more death rate than usual. That is still a great number, but that also speaks not all 217k deaths were solely driven by COVID. Here is the CDC record graphs you can see when you scroll down. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

If you want to believe the number as is, that's fine. No one can force you to believe something else. But I usually don't just trust the numbers they put out and tend to do a little more study myself.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-mortality-statistics/

And while we are at it having beaten horse many times before:

103 Million Americans have high blood pressure (note there's only about 200 million American Adults) so close to half.

102 Million Americans over the age of 20, have high cholesterol.

70 million Americans are obese with another 99 million over weight.

34 Million Americans are Diabetic with another 88 million that are pre-diabetic with the elevated blood sugar levels.

and that doesn't count all the other 'pre-existing conditions' like having had a skin cancer, pregnancy, anxiety, asthma, acne, thyroid condition, hammer toes and on and on.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 03:04:54 PM by nosuchreality »

Offline Mety

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2963 on: October 15, 2020, 03:09:13 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

CDC announced in late August that only 6% of people who died of COVID-19 actually have COVID-19 on their death certificate. Of course this does not mean only 6% of the official records are real COVID deaths either. But as much as the number 6% could be misleading, this "official number (217k as of today)" is misleading in so many ways. There is no clear record of solely COVID death. Most people just take the number 217k and say that many people died out of COVID whereas many of them were actually already dying with other complications. That is why the death certificate is important, but then that can't the be only record we can reply on either.

One thing we can try is we can compare the total death record/numbers (not just COVID death) from previous years. There was a spike in April 2020 by having about 20k more deaths and 10k more in July than the usual expected rate, but then the number goes down and now we're having about 3.8-7.8% more death rate than usual. That is still a great number, but that also speaks not all 217k deaths were solely driven by COVID. Here is the CDC record graphs you can see when you scroll down. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

If you want to believe the number as is, that's fine. No one can force you to believe something else. But I usually don't just trust the numbers they put out and tend to do a little more study myself.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-mortality-statistics/

And while we are at it having beaten horse many times before:

103 Million Americans have high blood pressure (note there's only about 200 million American Adults) so close to half.

102 Million Americans over the age of 20, have high cholesterol.

70 million Americans are obese with another 99 million over weight.

34 Million Americans are Diabetic with another 88 million that are pre-diabetic with the elevated blood sugar levels.

and that doesn't count all the other 'pre-existing conditions' like having had a skin cancer, pregnancy, anxiety, asthma, acne, thyroid condition, hammer toes and on and on.

If you read your link instead of just reading the word, "false," it goes along with what I wrote above. Snopes is rating how it was worded and claiming false on how some political figures are using it to much misunderstanding, not necessarily saying the content is false, but thanks for the article.

Offline nosuchreality

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2964 on: October 15, 2020, 03:22:46 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

CDC announced in late August that only 6% of people who died of COVID-19 actually have COVID-19 on their death certificate. Of course this does not mean only 6% of the official records are real COVID deaths either. But as much as the number 6% could be misleading, this "official number (217k as of today)" is misleading in so many ways. There is no clear record of solely COVID death. Most people just take the number 217k and say that many people died out of COVID whereas many of them were actually already dying with other complications. That is why the death certificate is important, but then that can't the be only record we can reply on either.

One thing we can try is we can compare the total death record/numbers (not just COVID death) from previous years. There was a spike in April 2020 by having about 20k more deaths and 10k more in July than the usual expected rate, but then the number goes down and now we're having about 3.8-7.8% more death rate than usual. That is still a great number, but that also speaks not all 217k deaths were solely driven by COVID. Here is the CDC record graphs you can see when you scroll down. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

If you want to believe the number as is, that's fine. No one can force you to believe something else. But I usually don't just trust the numbers they put out and tend to do a little more study myself.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-mortality-statistics/

And while we are at it having beaten horse many times before:

103 Million Americans have high blood pressure (note there's only about 200 million American Adults) so close to half.

102 Million Americans over the age of 20, have high cholesterol.

70 million Americans are obese with another 99 million over weight.

34 Million Americans are Diabetic with another 88 million that are pre-diabetic with the elevated blood sugar levels.

and that doesn't count all the other 'pre-existing conditions' like having had a skin cancer, pregnancy, anxiety, asthma, acne, thyroid condition, hammer toes and on and on.

If you read your link instead of just reading the word, "false," it goes along with what I wrote above. Snopes is rating how it was worded and claiming false on how some political figures are using it to much misunderstanding, not necessarily saying the content is false, but thanks for the article.

If you read what you wrote you are using it just like politicians.  If you read what I wrote, you'd realize how few adults don't have anything.

If you read the link you put in, you'd realize that chart shows 10,000-20,000 excess deaths PER WEEK since April. 

Offline Mety

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2965 on: October 15, 2020, 03:38:00 PM »
The official covid deaths is 217,000 after 8 months.
The average flu deaths is 37,000 after 12 months.

These are official numbers.  You find them all over the internet and that is the proof.
Can you prove the covid deaths were over counted and should only be 150,000 after 8 months?....Even then it's huge.



I believe the 217,000 number.


Did 10 million jews die in the holocaust?  or was it only 500,000?

CDC announced in late August that only 6% of people who died of COVID-19 actually have COVID-19 on their death certificate. Of course this does not mean only 6% of the official records are real COVID deaths either. But as much as the number 6% could be misleading, this "official number (217k as of today)" is misleading in so many ways. There is no clear record of solely COVID death. Most people just take the number 217k and say that many people died out of COVID whereas many of them were actually already dying with other complications. That is why the death certificate is important, but then that can't the be only record we can reply on either.

One thing we can try is we can compare the total death record/numbers (not just COVID death) from previous years. There was a spike in April 2020 by having about 20k more deaths and 10k more in July than the usual expected rate, but then the number goes down and now we're having about 3.8-7.8% more death rate than usual. That is still a great number, but that also speaks not all 217k deaths were solely driven by COVID. Here is the CDC record graphs you can see when you scroll down. 
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

If you want to believe the number as is, that's fine. No one can force you to believe something else. But I usually don't just trust the numbers they put out and tend to do a little more study myself.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-mortality-statistics/

And while we are at it having beaten horse many times before:

103 Million Americans have high blood pressure (note there's only about 200 million American Adults) so close to half.

102 Million Americans over the age of 20, have high cholesterol.

70 million Americans are obese with another 99 million over weight.

34 Million Americans are Diabetic with another 88 million that are pre-diabetic with the elevated blood sugar levels.

and that doesn't count all the other 'pre-existing conditions' like having had a skin cancer, pregnancy, anxiety, asthma, acne, thyroid condition, hammer toes and on and on.

If you read your link instead of just reading the word, "false," it goes along with what I wrote above. Snopes is rating how it was worded and claiming false on how some political figures are using it to much misunderstanding, not necessarily saying the content is false, but thanks for the article.

If you read what you wrote you are using it just like politicians.  If you read what I wrote, you'd realize how few adults don't have anything.

If you read the link you put in, you'd realize that chart shows 10,000-20,000 excess deaths PER WEEK since April.

Only partly true on that bold statement you wrote. It went up and came down to be exactly accurate. It went up as high as 35.6-40.4%, but then came down to 3.8-7.8% exceeding death rate than usual as of now according to that CDC site and as I've stated earlier. I'm not sure why you would think I'm doing political games here. I only question if all those higher % are solely from COVID. You might think so. I don't. No political favoritism needs to be pulled here.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2966 on: October 17, 2020, 03:54:48 PM »
Cases surge in Europe and the US.

The upside is that deaths are not jumping.
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