Advice needed- Den to Bedroom conversion

M

mads

Member
Hello, can anyone here shed some light on what the process is for getting a den labeled as a bedroom for the county/city public records?

We got stuck on our Refi process, as our assessor absolutely refuses to allow the exact same floorplan comp that sold this summer, on the grounds that their den is labeled as a bedroom in the public records and ours is not. We went to the open house and know for a fact that their 'bedroom/office' is the same as ours (we both lack inbuilt closets). Our loan officer seems to think that to be a bedroom, it needs a closet. Online, there seems to be no such requirement. Its all about minimum space, means of egress and heating options. FWIW, our community page labels our plan as a 3 bed, the assessor won't budge. Haven't been able to get a reply from the HOA, the sold comp or the City yet :| Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
 
This uses the verbiage MAY INCLUDE a closet..

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/policy-research/docs/ordinances/irvine-05-01-2018.pdf

Bedroom: Any room located in a dwelling unit or accessory dwelling unit that can be
used for sleeping purposes designed to provide privacy to the occupant and may
include a closet or closet/dressing room opening off of a bedroom. The residential
parking schedules differentiate units by number of bedrooms. However, confusion can
result from situations where floor plans designate areas such as dens, lofts, studios,
game rooms, home offices, libraries, sewing rooms, workshops, or other similar
habitable spaces when in actuality the space, due to the way the floor plan is laid out,
would be used as a bedroom. The approval body for the proposed use shall determine
how many bedrooms are in a unit for the purpose of applying the parking schedules.
 
Thanks a lot for the link. I guess, I will still need the city to confirm that our room would qualify for the lender to agree.
 
mads said:
Thanks a lot for the link. I guess, I will still need the city to confirm that our room would qualify for the lender to agree.
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I think updating city records to reflect an additional bedroom will be longer than your refi process and would delay it quite a bit.
 
Friendly advice: when buying a new home, a builder sometimes gives an option for a den or bedroom go with the bedroom. This will avoid situations like this.

If you want to classify your den as a bedroom. I?m guessing you will have to hire a contractor and get it permitted with the city and/or HOA to add the closet.

Good luck!
 
Shouldn't this determination be made by the appraiser?

For example, if the appraiser measures square footage that differs from the city records, doesn't the finance company use the appraiser's measurements?

From all the HGTV shows I've watched, to count as a bedroom it needs:

1. A window that can be used as an exit.
2. A door
3. Closet is usually mentioned but that is optional

This post from realtor.com is more detailed on what is needed:
https://www.realtor.com/advice/sell/what-is-a-bedroom-features/

Six features that define a bedroom
The laws vary by state, but here are six ways you can tell if your room is a bedroom rather than just a ?room?:

1. Minimum square footage: This is the top issue, says Shaun Anders of Douglas Elliman. Although this can vary from state to state, 70 to 80 square feet is generally the acceptable minimum. ?Sellers in urban markets such as New York City and Chicago would love 5-by-7[-foot] rooms to qualify as a bedroom, but no go,? says Anders.
2. Minimum horizontal footage: The minimum square footage doesn?t tell the whole tale. A bedroom must also measure at least 7 feet in any horizontal direction. That is why you can?t call a hallway a bedroom!
3. Two means of egress: There have to be two ways out of a bedroom. Traditionally, these would be a door and a window. Ekroth adds that in most markets, a skylight would also qualify as that means of egress.
4. Minimum ceiling height: At least half of the bedroom ceiling has to be at least 7 feet tall.
5. Minimum window size: The window opening must be a minimum size, usually 5.7 square feet.
6. A heating and cooling element: We're talking a heater (a space heater won't qualify) as well as a way to cool it down, whether that's by opening a window or good old AC.

Does a bedroom need a closet?
Contrary to popular belief, a bedroom does not have to have a closet to be considered official. (Your significant other might disagree, but legally, at least in most states, it does not.) Closets are expected in newer homes, but older ones might require a more creative approach to stowing your clothes.
Click to expand...

If your space qualifies, show the appraiser this list and if they don't agree, get another appraiser.

Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. We got confirmation from our HOA that essentially stated the same as the doc linked to by aquabliss and that they have never had the floorplan questioned this way before. There are closets (same wall) just off of the room in question and apparently, that is sufficient. Along with the city document stating that the closet is a 'may' and not a 'must', this likely is our last attempt at explaining it to the appraiser. Waiting for their response. IHO, the lender is a credit union and doesn't seem interested in getting a second opinion.
 
mads said:
Thanks everyone for the advice. We got confirmation from our HOA that essentially stated the same as the doc linked to by aquabliss and that they have never had the floorplan questioned this way before. There are closets (same wall) just off of the room in question and apparently, that is sufficient. Along with the city document stating that the closet is a 'may' and not a 'must', this likely is our last attempt at explaining it to the appraiser. Waiting for their response. IHO, the lender is a credit union and doesn't seem interested in getting a second opinion.
Click to expand...

Get a new lender.  Rates are low, I'm sure you'll get competitive rates. 
 
akkord said:
mads said:
Thanks everyone for the advice. We got confirmation from our HOA that essentially stated the same as the doc linked to by aquabliss and that they have never had the floorplan questioned this way before. There are closets (same wall) just off of the room in question and apparently, that is sufficient. Along with the city document stating that the closet is a 'may' and not a 'must', this likely is our last attempt at explaining it to the appraiser. Waiting for their response. IHO, the lender is a credit union and doesn't seem interested in getting a second opinion.
Click to expand...

Get a new lender.  Rates are low, I'm sure you'll get competitive rates. 
Click to expand...

akkord is right.

You should always get a quote from at least 2 lenders, especially if your credit union is being stingy on the appraisal because they don't want to count your room as a bedroom.
 
mads said:
Thanks, yes, may have to lender shop again and do more homework this time around
Click to expand...

If you haven't found the one you like yet maybe worth to consider taking to Soylent Green Is People?  I've done Rifi a few times with him and during the process he did not miss a thing that I should look out for during the process and it was a smooth transaction for all the refi's I've done with him.
 
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