Author Topic: HK and PRC  (Read 1501 times)

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Offline Soylent Green Is People

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HK and PRC
« on: August 05, 2019, 12:34:20 PM »
Haven't found an ongoing thread on this here, and perhaps it's not the right place to do so, but .....

Given news reports anyone think the current HK protests will fade away, similar to the French Yellow Vests, or will this turn into some kind of invasion to stomp out the protests? Is there a difference between what one can find on line compared to what is actually going on as per family or friends in HK?

My .02c

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Offline MTalltheway

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2019, 04:00:33 PM »
Originally from HK here, my own family has had really bad experiences (to put it lightly) with the Communist party's human rights record (see bookstore owners, activists, or anybody else daring to exercise their free speech rights being kidnapped, tortured, and harvested for their organs). This is the same party that confiscated my grandmother's family farm & their livestock in the 1950's just because they were "capitalist pigs" for owning something at all.

In many ways it's a legacy of the Communist Cultural Revolution that really destroyed the traditional Confucian values that the country had prior. My heart goes out to those in HK who live under that regime's foot as the last of the non-Communist Chinese on the actual mainland. It's only expected to get worse.

Regarding the protests... Talking with relatives there, it seems like more and more of the youth are getting dissatisfied with the continuing de facto degradation of the 1 country, 2 systems agreement and all of the other deleterious socio-economic effects that implies. I'm very lucky to have made it to the U.S., but I know I'd feel exactly the same way if I hadn't moved.

Moving on, the stories in the HK free press (as opposed to the Communist mouthpieces) are pretty accurate to what they're seeing on the ground. It must be mentioned that the government controlled publications are deliberately trying to laser focus on "bad elements" of the protests, including only the most violent protesters who are a very small minority in reality. In fact some of the students they know are saying that many of the worst instigators are actually hired & paid by the Communists to give a bad name to the rest of the group. Most recently it's been proven through both independent media investigation and police arrests of some Triad gang members that they're being organized & funded by outside forces.

Overall, the protests are getting huge in numbers as many of those youth formerly on the sidelines or who are just coming into maturity now have started actively participating in the protests, based on a fear of not only HK's future, but also their own personal futures (disenfranchisement) with the looming 2047 deadline of the joint Sino-British treaty. After that, they expect that the Communist party will do away with democratic government.



« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 04:36:27 PM by MTalltheway »

Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2019, 04:55:49 PM »
Which English Language news orgs would you find best to follow on this - BBC, ABC (Australia), NHK World, CNA?

Offline MTalltheway

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 05:01:41 PM »
I find that HKFP is very good, they all write in English and they're a nonprofit group of independent journalists who aren't regime mouthpieces.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/

Here's a great quote during their interview of artist Ai Weiwei:

"This is why I believe the Hong Kong demonstrations are the most beautiful. They are so peaceful, rational, and those taking part are so young. It is very different from most demonstrations elsewhere. Those are usually oriented around a shared political agenda. But the people marching in the streets of Hong Kong are there for freedom. It is abstract, but at the same time it relates to everyone and it definitely relates to the values I treasure most...China faces a massive problem if the youth of Hong Kong continues to protest. It is a challenge that alarms the rest of the world as to what kind of society China is. If they don’t stop the protests, the democratic voice will get louder and there will be better conditions for freedom. But how can they stop them? Hong Kong is not just another Chinese city. If that were the case, the military would have moved in and crushed it immediately. There would not be any media coverage or international attention. This already happens all the time in China. Hong Kong is different. It still has its recent history as a British colony, reflected in its adherence to the rule of law, its independent judiciary, and relatively wide range of political freedoms."
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 05:11:30 PM by MTalltheway »

Offline Kings

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2019, 11:35:17 AM »
china starting to feel the heat.  tiananmen 2.0 incoming?

Offline zubs

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2019, 11:43:06 AM »
This is why I would support Trump.  He is weakening China with the Tariffs.
If we had a different president they would be too pussy shit to do it.

This is a headline on yahoo news:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/cathay-falls-faces-china-wrath-031506362.html


Any employee of Cathay Pacific caught supporting the HK protesters will be fired.  <--This is such a vile affront to human rights.


This kind of shit needs to be addressed, and if we have to elect a racist blow hard shit head to weaken China, so be it.  In situations like these, obama and kumbaya policies ain't gonna cut it.


Perhaps the problem with the democratic party is too much empathy....
Don't care what other people think do things that will help yourself first.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 11:50:25 AM by zubs »

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Offline Kings

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 12:14:33 PM »
Perhaps the problem with the democratic party is too much empathy....
Don't care what other people think do things that will help yourself first.

woah, careful now...you're starting to sound like a white nationalist

Offline zubs

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 12:17:59 PM »
Perhaps the problem with the democratic party is too much empathy....
Don't care what other people think do things that will help yourself first.

woah, careful now...you're starting to sound like a white nationalist

I'm racist so it's ok.

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Offline morekaos

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 12:20:26 PM »
Perhaps the problem with the democratic party is too much empathy....
Don't care what other people think do things that will help yourself first.

woah, careful now...you're starting to sound like a white nationalist

I'm racist so it's ok.

Under the new definition...who isn't? We are all Cakeists now.

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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 12:34:27 PM »
This is why I would support Trump.  He is weakening China with the Tariffs.

Is it really weakening China? Even at 25% more, people still tell me it's cheaper than trying to manufacture domestically.

Quote
This kind of shit needs to be addressed, and if we have to elect a racist blow hard shit head to weaken China, so be it.  In situations like these, obama and kumbaya policies ain't gonna cut it.

Is there any other policy that would work? I agree that there are some things that I like Trump doing, but what else? Not sure if tariffs or anything else for that matter will change hundreds of years of political/cultural history.
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Offline morekaos

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 12:41:01 PM »
No one has really tried it this way...let's see if it works.

China Strikes Back—Sort Of
Beijing is feeling the pain of American tariffs but doesn’t want to lose face.

China has upped the ante in its trade dispute with the United States. By allowing the yuan to fall on foreign exchange markets, Beijing has shown how far it will go in response to existing U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods, as well as additional ones now threatened by President Trump. (Today, the White House announced that these new tariffs would go forward as expected on September 1 but delayed levies on certain products, including electronics, until December.) But China’s moves, bold and headline-grabbing as they are, also signal weakness: Beijing can no longer play the tit-for-tat tariff game with which it once engaged the Trump White House. And because the devaluation has raised the risk of capital flight from China (and with it, longer-term economic difficulties), the currency move also hints at desperation to find immediate relief from the economic pain that the tariffs are inflicting.

https://www.city-journal.org/tariiffs-yuan-exchange-rate

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Offline Happiness

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 12:46:12 PM »
The Chinese Communist Party has had a couple decades with “conventional” US presidents like Clinton, Bush, and Obama of engaging in unfair trading practices, getting called on it by the US, promising to change things, and then doing nothing. It will be interesting to see if Trump’s tariff will be able to hold the Chinese to their commitments.

Mexico has had a couple decades with “conventional” US presidents like Clinton, Bush, and Obama of promising to enforce Mexican immigration laws and then doing nothing. Since Trump’s tariff threats, Mexico is now enforcing its own laws and dramatically curtailed the number of migrants transiting their territory towards the US.

Hopefully, the tariffs will work on the Chinese the same way they did on the Mexicans.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 12:51:17 PM »
So let's get philosophical... is the rest of the world promoting communism for China? Because we all use China for the majority of manufacturing, are we enabling them to keep their status quo?

I'd like to hear if anyone here actually supports the Chinese government/way of life. It would seem that there is a large number that don't or else why would they come to the US? But at the same time, it seems there is large number that do because they are in the "privileged class" and don't want to upset the apple cart.

Like where do most Chinese FCBs who buy in Irvine fall? The Haves or the Have Nots?

Does that mean Irvine is supporting Communism? :)
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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 12:51:58 PM »
Hopefully, the tariffs will work on the Chinese the same way they did on the Mexicans.

I don't think that's comparable... Mexico <> China.
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Offline Kings

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Re: HK and PRC
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 01:11:43 PM »
the rest of the world has been turning a blind eye to china for years and their economy of smoke and mirrors with government tentacles in anything and everything is only as powerful as long as the rest of the world desires their slave labor-made products.  on top of that, so long as corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, they will be stuck with their golden handcuffs manufacturing their goods in china.

so how do we fix this?  china isn't going to change and patty cake for the past 30 years with china hasn't worked.  trump's tariff approach appears to be the only solution by making it more expensive for goods to come out of china.  "oh but the consumers pay the tariffs!" yeah, to a certain extent.  what happens when we have 100% tariffs?
 consumers won't buy those products and we will see an inflection point where the golden handcuffs start to come off as other countries, maybe even the US, become competitive in manufacturing.  this is the end game and one that will topple the entire chinese empire if it comes to fruition.  china will fold on tariffs when trump wins in 2020.

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