Author Topic: Cadence Park environment  (Read 2093 times)

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Offline Longhairdaddy

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Cadence Park environment
« on: May 18, 2019, 01:22:23 AM »
Hi,
Before buying a SFH/condo in Cadence Park area and sending my kid to Cadence Park K-8 school,

Just wanted to ask a few questions to the Ti community.
(There seems to be less info comparing other new communities)

- house sales trend (especially 3 story condos sitting as inventory)
- living environment (eg, inconvenience not having shopping center, cemetery vs commercial updates, etc)
- the Cadence Park school (are they good and really ready to take kids)

Highly appreciated and greatly helpful if anyone can elaborate more on Cadence Park now.

Offline lnc

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2019, 01:57:06 PM »
Avoid 3 story condo if you can.  They are usually less popular and harder to sell compare to others. 

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2019, 02:23:46 PM »
Avoid 3 story condo if you can.  They are usually less popular and harder to sell compare to others. 

Very true, they can be harder to sell and rent.
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Offline Longhairdaddy

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2019, 11:00:59 PM »
Thank you for the comments. ;)

As far as the 3 story condo goes,
Even the ones with living rooms, garage and backyard located at the 1st floor?
(Not the one with their living room located at 2nd floor and garage is at 1st.)

I’m thinking about Duet at Cadence Park which has spacious 4 bed rooms with bonus room at the 3rd floor.
How would anyone think on this?

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2019, 10:46:13 AM »
I would recommend Deco because I designed it. Some plans offer living down and it’s totally detached. I did warn everyone when Elwood came out that 3 story homes would become the norm. Back in 2006 when I came up with detached condo that no driveway would be the norm. I also joked with IHO that his 3CWG will never be built again.

I agree that 3 story condo is a hard sell compared to 2 story. But 2 story condo has its limitation and that is limited footage and a small yard. The 3 story has a yard up in the air for light and ventilation.

Irvine is running out of land and pretty soon 3 story detached will become a luxury. This is a prediction and I am already seeing prototypes that gear for a higher density to up the price of selling land.

There is this saying in Chinese that the fortune teller must not reveal the future but just provide caution. This happened to me too the more I reveal the more my business will suffer. So I stop posting.

That this post as a gift to you and good luck with your decision.

Duet has its problem with the Siamese twin and if one Siamese misbehave you are stuck. It’s better to have light from 4 sides than 3.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:09:07 AM by irvinehomeshopper »
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

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Offline eyephone

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 12:44:48 PM »
Running out of land? Is that the marketing message? (Unbelievable)

I guess there is a surplus of food due to the tarriffs. (Currently famers selling overseas particularly an issue) Therefore food prices should be cheaper?  ;) (probably not)

So like many other cities across the US. There will build apartment buildings, buy out old houses/old buildings to devlope condos and townhouses. Note this is like not a new concept.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 05:15:36 PM by eyephone »

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2019, 06:45:44 PM »
You might think this is the natural evolution and it is to be expected as common knowledge that people tear old structures down to build bulkier products.

Not so correct. Zoning and land use dictate the type of products that get built there. For example one can’t buy several side by side houses on large lots in El Camino to tear down and replace them with an apartment. The zoning dedication prohibits construction of a drastically different type and size of homes.

Surplus of land never meant cheaper prices for home. However the home amenities are better typically in this scenario such as having a driveway, a courtyard, bigger rear yard, wider side yard, a third car garage, and more single story products. City of Irvine still enforces planning standards even for the scarcity of remaining land. Fortunately like a creative attorney one could still have met the laws and gets away with murder. The new and denser products must still meet the old planning standards through creative interpretation and not violating the life and safety of building safety and fire codes.

Irvine planning standard has never insisted on detached homes having a driveway and a big backyard. However, guest parking standard has always been stringent. Each home must have guest parking within a short walking distance to the front door. When land was plentiful it was assumed the the only way to have met the code was to have guests park on the driveway. Very few curb then was long enough for a series of parked cars so the only solution was driveway.

Because of these excessive driveway curb cuts the invention of one driveway for every 4,6,8 or 10 homes has been more land efficient so the guest parking count could be met on the longer uninterrupted curbs. Since the planning code never stated the guest parking must be dedicated to the exclusive use for each home as long the reasonable walking distance is met made it possible for homes to have no driveway. Planners do validate that there is guest parking for every home within a 150’ walk (defined as a reasonable walking distance many decades later as detached condos began to challenge old rules)

When land starts to run out city could not just change the existing zoning to accommodate bigger and denser products simply like you said. Tearing down a house and replace it with an apartment, buy out buildings and replace them with townhouses or condos.

Zoning change must be on a ballot supported by over 6,000 pages of EIR then must be approved by the general population and before getting it on the ballot the zoning modification has to be approved through planning commission then city counsel and always shot down by NIMBYs.

Zoning modification is no different than the Veteran cemetery and how long has this taken?

"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

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Offline Longhairdaddy

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 02:29:15 AM »
Great advice, Irvinehomeshopper.

I disliked a lot and avoid at first (especailly ones with 2nd floor kitchen) but i agree the other 3 story homes could be the norm in Irvine but the preference will vary depends on types/location, etc.

Fyi, Duet is as matter of fact, a detached condo and seemingly shared garage wall with the twin there’s a few inches air gap.

Offline eyephone

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 08:18:51 AM »
We can go back and forth with examples of zoning laws changing in other cities. The fact of the matter if population increases then they will build up. If Irvine does not do it. Then other cities nearby would do that. (The builder makes more in the pocket and it offers a potential affordable option to buyers. The size maybe smaller, but oh well.)

Why has NYC real estate continue to grow in units? I don’t think there is extra land.

I find it rediculous to promote the message that there will be no other options in the future.

You might think this is the natural evolution and it is to be expected as common knowledge that people tear old structures down to build bulkier products.

Not so correct. Zoning and land use dictate the type of products that get built there. For example one can’t buy several side by side houses on large lots in El Camino to tear down and replace them with an apartment. The zoning dedication prohibits construction of a drastically different type and size of homes.

Surplus of land never meant cheaper prices for home. However the home amenities are better typically in this scenario such as having a driveway, a courtyard, bigger rear yard, wider side yard, a third car garage, and more single story products. City of Irvine still enforces planning standards even for the scarcity of remaining land. Fortunately like a creative attorney one could still have met the laws and gets away with murder. The new and denser products must still meet the old planning standards through creative interpretation and not violating the life and safety of building safety and fire codes.

Irvine planning standard has never insisted on detached homes having a driveway and a big backyard. However, guest parking standard has always been stringent. Each home must have guest parking within a short walking distance to the front door. When land was plentiful it was assumed the the only way to have met the code was to have guests park on the driveway. Very few curb then was long enough for a series of parked cars so the only solution was driveway.

Because of these excessive driveway curb cuts the invention of one driveway for every 4,6,8 or 10 homes has been more land efficient so the guest parking count could be met on the longer uninterrupted curbs. Since the planning code never stated the guest parking must be dedicated to the exclusive use for each home as long the reasonable walking distance is met made it possible for homes to have no driveway. Planners do validate that there is guest parking for every home within a 150’ walk (defined as a reasonable walking distance many decades later as detached condos began to challenge old rules)

When land starts to run out city could not just change the existing zoning to accommodate bigger and denser products simply like you said. Tearing down a house and replace it with an apartment, buy out buildings and replace them with townhouses or condos.

Zoning change must be on a ballot supported by over 6,000 pages of EIR then must be approved by the general population and before getting it on the ballot the zoning modification has to be approved through planning commission then city counsel and always shot down by NIMBYs.

Zoning modification is no different than the Veteran cemetery and how long has this taken?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 08:50:01 AM by eyephone »

Offline irvinehomeshopper

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 09:52:07 AM »
Builders don’t make a lot more by building up. Construction cost exponentially increased but selling price does not. The builder makes up the revenue by selling quantity. The land sellers Benefitted always. Locally all builders are capped at 6% or potentially risk in earning less in profit if the product sucks. This is the stipulation of the land purchase agreement.

Why do products get denser and taller because land seller holds competitions where different builders vie for the land by proposing the most clever product. The winning bid is always the product that offer the highest purchasing price. Sometimes a product that is artificially pumped up in sellable sf may yield the highest land purchase price but a becomes flop in the marketplace. The land seller runs a risk of having to take the land back and refund the purchase price. This has occurred and the builder becomes black listed.
"I can only imagine at a house warming party what a total embarrassment it would be to tell the guests that there is no tour because there is no more house to show you because you are standing in the only room in the house. "

Offline eyephone

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 10:57:48 AM »
Please don’t try to scare people regarding the land. Products will evolve and change. (For example A unit might not have a yard, but you may have square footage and a view.)

Offline eyephone

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 11:11:45 AM »
You don’t have to take a look at NYC housing. Just look what happened across the street of DJ. All those new additional apartments across the street. Also, look at the new condos/apartments I want to say on Van Karman. I just thought of another example Cpw.

I’m not saying it’s bad. But I’m just using it as an example that supports my argument.

Maybe we should start a new topic like dense housing. Because this has nothing to do with Cadence. (I have no comment on Cadence)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 01:36:49 PM by eyephone »

Offline momopi

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 02:16:27 PM »

I own 3 story condo at Oak Park (Oak Creek) and will agree that, in most cases it's harder to sell or rent.  However I think an exception can be made if the 3 story condo or SFR only has "bonus room" on the 3rd floor, like a nice loft or attic with reasonable ceiling height.

The "bonus room" can be used as a game room or man cave and I think it'd be popular.  However when the condo places the master bedroom on the 3rd floor (like Oak Park condo) then it can get tedious.

I recall when the former Hughes plant in Fullerton was redeveloped into Amerige Heights, they had some multi story condos with a dumb waiter that goes from the garage to the kitchen area.  Was told that it's for grocery bags.

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Offline eyephone

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 02:25:19 PM »

I own 3 story condo at Oak Park (Oak Creek) and will agree that, in most cases it's harder to sell or rent.  However I think an exception can be made if the 3 story condo or SFR only has "bonus room" on the 3rd floor, like a nice loft or attic with reasonable ceiling height.

The "bonus room" can be used as a game room or man cave and I think it'd be popular.  However when the condo places the master bedroom on the 3rd floor (like Oak Park condo) then it can get tedious.

I recall when the former Hughes plant in Fullerton was redeveloped into Amerige Heights, they had some multi story condos with a dumb waiter that goes from the garage to the kitchen area.  Was told that it's for grocery bags.

Hmm-dumb waiter sounds kinda cool.

Offline iacrenter

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Re: Cadence Park environment
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 02:38:00 PM »
Over the years I've seen several detached SFR with the 3rd Floor bonus rooms -- Portisol plan in WB, Adler Creek and Campanile in NP Square, and Bougainvillea in PS. Always a great option especially since they rarely build basements in SoCal.


I own 3 story condo at Oak Park (Oak Creek) and will agree that, in most cases it's harder to sell or rent.  However I think an exception can be made if the 3 story condo or SFR only has "bonus room" on the 3rd floor, like a nice loft or attic with reasonable ceiling height.

The "bonus room" can be used as a game room or man cave and I think it'd be popular.  However when the condo places the master bedroom on the 3rd floor (like Oak Park condo) then it can get tedious.

I recall when the former Hughes plant in Fullerton was redeveloped into Amerige Heights, they had some multi story condos with a dumb waiter that goes from the garage to the kitchen area.  Was told that it's for grocery bags.

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