Author Topic: The 2020 Presidential Election  (Read 39253 times)

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Offline Happiness

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #735 on: August 15, 2019, 09:42:40 AM »
Rescue mutts are smarter than their pure bred cousins.
I know because I have a pure bred dog that's dumb as shit.
Pure bred = In bred

But I am not breedist. I like all dogs.

Offline morekaos

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #736 on: August 15, 2019, 09:54:18 AM »
Yes, unlike a cake purist cakeist, you should encourage mutts (smarter).  Being a breed supremacist should be discouraged.

Offline Kenkoko

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #737 on: August 15, 2019, 01:30:21 PM »
As terrible as it may sound, some countries need a benevolent dictator (if there is such a thing).  They are not capable of democracy for numerous cultural and socio-economic reasons.  Corruption is too embedded and needs to be forcefully eliminated at the roots.  Thats tough going and to us may look barbaric.

Given the state of civil forfeiture, special interest 'lobbying', patronage, revovling door between politics and consuilting/lobbying, and general cozy relationship between unions, corporations and government, do we realld recognize corruption when its right in front of us?

let's be honest, all governments are and will be corrupt to a certain extent.  the ones that are better at hiding it are the ones viewed as a "democracy".

That's why the smaller the reach of the government, the smaller the corruption.

This is why I don't like the Fed handling big money programs... social security, healthcare, etc... even Yang's UBI.

This is a common conservative talking point but it’s basically complaining without offering any realistic solutions. And I am generally for smaller government, market based solutions and less bureaucracy. 

The biggest problems we have today do not have market based solutions. There is little incentive to eradicate homelessness until it becomes a giant nuisance. There is also no market incentives to fight climate change or tackle technological job displacement caused by automation/AI.

Conservatives like to pretend we can just tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get us out of this massive welfare trap we’re in. This problem is so massive, we now have more people on disability than people who work in construction. And it’s only going to get worse.

Why would anyone who’s on these welfare programs vote against their very own survival? They would only do it if they have a viable alternative- which is Yang’s UBI. It’s also going to shrink the current welfare program because people have to opt out of their welfare programs to get UBI.

This is my problem with the right. They love to hate any policy that’s not small government or seems anti market.
But they do not offer any realistic solutions themselves, or support a viable alternative.

This stupid denial is driving the movement to socialism.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 02:55:48 PM by Kenkoko »

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #738 on: August 15, 2019, 02:28:02 PM »
This is my problem with the right. They love to complain they hate any policy that’s not “small government anti market”

Wait. Isn't "small government" more "pro market"? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?
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Offline Kenkoko

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #739 on: August 15, 2019, 02:45:50 PM »
This is my problem with the right. They love to complain they hate any policy that’s not “small government anti market”

Wait. Isn't "small government" more "pro market"? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Meant to say conservatives hate any policy that's not small government or seems anti market, but do not offer any realistic solutions themselves, or support a viable alternative.


Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #740 on: August 15, 2019, 04:10:00 PM »
This is my problem with the right. They love to complain they hate any policy that’s not “small government anti market”

Wait. Isn't "small government" more "pro market"? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Meant to say conservatives hate any policy that's not small government or seems anti market, but do not offer any realistic solutions themselves, or support a viable alternative.

I'm not sure you can paint with such broad strokes. There are many conservatives who offer up solutions but aren't politically positioned enough to put them into action.

I'm not smart enough but if you were to ask me how to take care of the healthcare problem, instead of letting the Fed handle it, I would move it to state or even local level. This way, it creates sort of a market solution while keeping government involvement small.

I would actually do the same thing with any big money Fed programs. The closer you keep it to the community you are servicing, the more effective it will be.

Increasing privatization is always something I think would help... I know people worry about oversight and corruption but the market will naturally handle that (in theory).

I think we are aligned on market-based solutions and less bureaucracy, I just don't think UBI is one of them.
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Offline Kenkoko

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #741 on: August 15, 2019, 04:38:11 PM »
This is my problem with the right. They love to complain they hate any policy that’s not “small government anti market”

Wait. Isn't "small government" more "pro market"? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Meant to say conservatives hate any policy that's not small government or seems anti market, but do not offer any realistic solutions themselves, or support a viable alternative.

I'm not sure you can paint with such broad strokes. There are many conservatives who offer up solutions but aren't politically positioned enough to put them into action.

I'm not smart enough but if you were to ask me how to take care of the healthcare problem, instead of letting the Fed handle it, I would move it to state or even local level. This way, it creates sort of a market solution while keeping government involvement small.

I would actually do the same thing with any big money Fed programs. The closer you keep it to the community you are servicing, the more effective it will be.

 is always something I think would help... I know people worry about oversight and corruption but the market will naturally handle that (in theory).

I think we are aligned on market-based solutions and less bureaucracy, I just don't think UBI is one of them.

I noticed you dodged my point like a career politician.

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?

Noticed how I never said anything about healthcare. I do agree with you there that we could find solutions without resorting to Bernie's Medicare for all. But increasing privatization is not the solution to healthcare. Even if you do not agree with healthcare being a human right, surely you see how problematic is it to have a healthcare system based on profit.


Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #742 on: August 15, 2019, 04:56:57 PM »
Sorry, wasn’t avoiding anything. I picked healthcare because it’s a hot topic and I’ve discussed it before.

The issues you mention fall into my localize and privatize suggestion.

Profit is an impetus for innovation and efficiency. Quality is not free.

Not able to multi quote on my phone.
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Offline Happiness

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #743 on: August 15, 2019, 04:59:23 PM »

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?


If pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is now considered "nonsense," the human race is doomed.

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Offline Kings

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #744 on: August 15, 2019, 05:01:23 PM »

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?


If pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is now considered "nonsense," the human race is doomed.

i'll have you know i pulled the climate up by its bootstraps last night!

Offline Kenkoko

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #745 on: August 15, 2019, 05:26:14 PM »
The issues you mention fall into my localize and privatize suggestion.

Profit is an impetus for innovation and efficiency. Quality is not free.


I agree with that when it comes to issues other than climate change / homelessness. However, there is no profit motivation so solve climate change or homelessness.

Automation is purely driven by profit. Don't get me wrong, automation is great for humanity. We just need to deal with the side effect of technological job displacement.



Offline Kenkoko

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #746 on: August 15, 2019, 05:28:26 PM »

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?


If pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is now considered "nonsense," the human race is doomed.

If our solution to combat climate change, technological job displacement, and homelessness is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" then you are absolutely right - the human race is doomed.

Offline morekaos

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #747 on: August 15, 2019, 05:33:16 PM »
As far as climate change is concerned I think the conservatives view adaptation as the only way. Wether you believe in it or not I think the prevailing thought is there is little we can do to stop it barring drastic changes to everyone’s economies. Structurally impossible short a one world order/Thanos style change.

Offline Happiness

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #748 on: August 15, 2019, 05:35:49 PM »

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?


If pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is now considered "nonsense," the human race is doomed.

If our solution to combat climate change, technological job displacement, and homelessness is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" then you are absolutely right - the human race is doomed.
Climate change, homelessness, and technological job displacement has been with us since the dawn of humankind. Humanity has dealt with these issues over the ages through ingenuity and tenacity. So, no, I do not think climate change, homelessness, and technological advancement will be the end of the human race.

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: The 2020 Presidential Election
« Reply #749 on: August 15, 2019, 06:51:58 PM »

Please enlighten me. Other than the nonsense "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", what is the conservative / market-based solution to Climate change? Homelessness? Job loss caused by AI/Automation ?


If pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is now considered "nonsense," the human race is doomed.

If our solution to combat climate change, technological job displacement, and homelessness is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" then you are absolutely right - the human race is doomed.
Climate change, homelessness, and technological job displacement has been with us since the dawn of humankind. Humanity has dealt with these issues over the ages through ingenuity and tenacity. So, no, I do not think climate change, homelessness, and technological advancement will be the end of the human race.

Correct.  The issues facing us right now will seem quaint in 100 years.

 

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