Author Topic: SALT Deduction  (Read 4500 times)

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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2019, 09:45:20 AM »
I will give you the exact benefit of tax cuts to corporate earnings and where the money was spent (relative to years prior)

Chest thumping conservatives want to take a guess first  ?

Remember prior beatdowns on the trade deals , bond bubbles, etc so take your time and google thoroughly before you respond this time  :)

That is , if facts matter to you  ...

Well...everything will be solved by that 6% GDP growth...maybe GOP should take a page out of China's playbook and just make up their own GDP numbers.

Offline morekaos

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2019, 10:29:14 AM »
Why is everything always in such extreme definitives?  Always 100 miles an hour or a dead stop? What about just decent growth...we will be fine.

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2019, 10:32:40 AM »
Why is everything always in such extreme definitives?  Always 100 miles an hour or a dead stop? What about just decent growth...we will be fine.

Again...facts, evidence, and logic.  Talking points are pointless.

Offline fortune11

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2019, 10:50:10 AM »
My point , as with many posts where I have repeated myself 10 times to drill this point home —

Is that our economic supertanker moves via forces that are much much bigger than a political party or magical gimmicks like one time tax cuts

Demographics
Productivity — v v IMP l
Labor force participation

Ever wonder why GDP was booming when “boomers” were entering the workforce ? Because at the same time women were also entering the workforce in large numbers boosting aggregate demand . Didn’t matter we had high taxes at the time .

Do tax cuts spur the creation of new companies like apple or google ? Or do they just stuff more money in the pockets of old fossils who fund GOP ...  you know the answer .

That doesn’t mean you cannot make money during these mini cycles of boom and bust . Key is not to get too excited by recent events or political affiliations

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #124 on: April 17, 2019, 11:00:46 AM »
My point , as with many posts where I have repeated myself 10 times to drill this point home —

Is that our economic supertanker moves via forces that are much much bigger than a political party or magical gimmicks like one time tax cuts

Demographics
Productivity — v v IMP l
Labor force participation

Ever wonder why GDP was booming when “boomers” were entering the workforce ? Because at the same time women were also entering the workforce in large numbers boosting aggregate demand . Didn’t matter we had high taxes at the time .

Do tax cuts spur the creation of new companies like apple or google ? Or do they just stuff more money in the pockets of old fossils who fund GOP ...  you know the answer .

That doesn’t mean you cannot make money during these mini cycles of boom and bust . Key is not to get too excited by recent events or political affiliations

TBF...GDP is seriously flawed measuring the 21st century economy, when so much of productivity is not centralized and automation/AI is growing.   It's really misleading when it is held up as this ultimate report of the economy.

A more holistic view of the economy is needed:  (more Andrew Yang plug)

https://www.yang2020.com/policies/measuring-the-economy/


Online eyephone

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2019, 11:18:33 AM »
So the bottom line, not much changed?
Does this tell us in any way that the housing market will be back to bull run again? Or are the buyers still fed up with ridiculous prices?

It did change it effected real estate. Go to the housing analysis thread.

It did affect the market for sure. I agree with you like you suggested not to buy last year as I also think last year was the worst time to buy IMO. But people kinda stopped buying because of the seasonality, ridiculous listing prices and also the fear of this new tax plan would not benefit like it used to. It seems though because of other factors, people are not much affected by it in the overall tax calculations or even got more benefits for some reason as some TI members are saying. The housing tax alone might have been a little less attractive, but because of new bracket systems, maybe it turned out not as bad? I could be wrong. I’m just guessing from how people including myself thought it was going to be so bad, but surprised to see some benefits at the end. Well, I was only interested how it would affect the housing market so I guess we will see how it plays.

Read the article from the NY Fed. Don’t be foolish and rely on TI responses. (You should know better.)

Mety: take a look at these poll numbers

Politico Article: On Tax Day, Trump tax cuts remain deeply unpopular

A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found that just 17 percent of Americans believe their own taxes will go down as a result of the bill. A CBS News poll found that 40 percent said they saw no change from the tax bill. And more said it drove their taxes up (32 percent) than lowered their tax bill (25 percent.)

The bill itself has been unpopular from the start and remains so.

A Pew Research Center survey conducted last month found that 36 percent of Americans approve of the tax-cut law while 49 percent disapprove. Even the number of Republicans who strongly approve of the law dipped in the latest Pew survey.

White House officials’ response to the unpopularity of the tax cut is basically: Who cares?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/donald-trump-tax-cuts-unpopular-1273469

Thanks for the articles. While it may benefit me for now I guess it could possibly play the role in upcoming recession or any economic damage on the way. But like I said before, I’m not really too familiar with economy or political stuff. You guys seem to be on top of it always, but two opinions (Trump fans vs. Anti-Trump) can’t seem to agree forever lol.

You say you are not familiar with the economy and politics. But I have to say in a way you are. You recognized the slowing in housing.
 
I like to leave you with you with a quote.
“If you sleep, you will miss the opportunity to be successful.”
E. Thomas

You have to be current with today news. (For example price of oil, tarriffs, Interest rates, etc..)

« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:25:13 PM by eyephone »

Offline Mety

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #126 on: April 17, 2019, 02:15:16 PM »
So the bottom line, not much changed?
Does this tell us in any way that the housing market will be back to bull run again? Or are the buyers still fed up with ridiculous prices?

It did change it effected real estate. Go to the housing analysis thread.

It did affect the market for sure. I agree with you like you suggested not to buy last year as I also think last year was the worst time to buy IMO. But people kinda stopped buying because of the seasonality, ridiculous listing prices and also the fear of this new tax plan would not benefit like it used to. It seems though because of other factors, people are not much affected by it in the overall tax calculations or even got more benefits for some reason as some TI members are saying. The housing tax alone might have been a little less attractive, but because of new bracket systems, maybe it turned out not as bad? I could be wrong. I’m just guessing from how people including myself thought it was going to be so bad, but surprised to see some benefits at the end. Well, I was only interested how it would affect the housing market so I guess we will see how it plays.

Read the article from the NY Fed. Don’t be foolish and rely on TI responses. (You should know better.)

Mety: take a look at these poll numbers

Politico Article: On Tax Day, Trump tax cuts remain deeply unpopular

A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found that just 17 percent of Americans believe their own taxes will go down as a result of the bill. A CBS News poll found that 40 percent said they saw no change from the tax bill. And more said it drove their taxes up (32 percent) than lowered their tax bill (25 percent.)

The bill itself has been unpopular from the start and remains so.

A Pew Research Center survey conducted last month found that 36 percent of Americans approve of the tax-cut law while 49 percent disapprove. Even the number of Republicans who strongly approve of the law dipped in the latest Pew survey.

White House officials’ response to the unpopularity of the tax cut is basically: Who cares?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/donald-trump-tax-cuts-unpopular-1273469

Thanks for the articles. While it may benefit me for now I guess it could possibly play the role in upcoming recession or any economic damage on the way. But like I said before, I’m not really too familiar with economy or political stuff. You guys seem to be on top of it always, but two opinions (Trump fans vs. Anti-Trump) can’t seem to agree forever lol.

You say you are not familiar with the economy and politics. But I have to say in a way you are. You recognized the slowing in housing.
 
I like to leave you with you with a quote.
“If you sleep, you will miss the opportunity to be successful.”
E. Thomas

You have to be current with today news. (For example price of oil, tarriffs, Interest rates, etc..)

Haha. I can't keep up with everything. I guess you guys (especially eyephone, fortune11, Irvinecommuter) have so much more capacity to study and observe than what I can do.

Besides my career field (which is not economy or politics) I mostly have interests on God and housing. Although I would like it to be just God (no, I'm not a pastor either), housing is needed for our family and to serve others also so I tend to study a lot on areas and markets, etc, to provide what's best for our family and friends. Thanks to people like you and YF for you guys provide much good information and things people usually miss on housing markets.

Offline morekaos

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #127 on: April 17, 2019, 02:22:13 PM »
Even Bernie Sanders admits it worked.

Hell Freezes Over :Bernie Sanders Admits That GOP’s Tax Cuts are a Boon for America’s Middle Class

“Yeah, it is a very good thing, and that’s why we should have made the tax breaks for the middle class permanent. Should we focus on the needs of the middle class? We should have.



https://youtu.be/BsTcF-8IL-Q

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2019, 02:25:48 PM »
Even Bernie Sanders admits it worked.

Hell Freezes Over :Bernie Sanders Admits That GOP’s Tax Cuts are a Boon for America’s Middle Class


Yeah..you confuse Bernie Sanders with a good policy person.  To me, he is the Democratic equivalent to Donald Trump...all hat no cattle.

Offline Kenkoko

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2019, 05:12:06 PM »
Even Bernie Sanders admits it worked.

Hell Freezes Over :Bernie Sanders Admits That GOP’s Tax Cuts are a Boon for America’s Middle Class

“Yeah, it is a very good thing, and that’s why we should have made the tax breaks for the middle class permanent. Should we focus on the needs of the middle class? We should have.


Using Bernie Sanders to boost your claim does not do much.

Bernie's heart is in the right place but his policy reflects how clueless he is to solving America's problems.

What good is a $15 minimum wage when millions of jobs are getting wiped out? Why subsidize free college ? only 32% of American even go to college (41% don't even graduate). And he wants to jump straight into Medicare for all wiping out private insurance in 4 years. Massive disruptions for care providers.

Trump's tax cut is great?

Corporate tax revenue drop of 31% in 2018. Amazon's effective tax rate is -1% despite 11 billions profit. Yet you want people to celebrate the measly amount they saved on their personal income tax?


Offline morekaos

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2019, 09:05:02 PM »
Not my point, I think he’s an idiot but he is also reflexively anti Trump. His automatic set position is opposite whatever Trump does. In this instance he has no choice but to agree that the tax cuts were broad and effective. It’s too obvious for even Crazy Bernie to deny.

Offline fortune11

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #131 on: April 18, 2019, 04:54:09 AM »
Not my point, I think he’s an idiot but he is also reflexively anti Trump. His automatic set position is opposite whatever Trump does. In this instance he has no choice but to agree that the tax cuts were broad and effective. It’s too obvious for even Crazy Bernie to deny.

This right here , shows your utter lack of political knowledge beyond “copy and paste “

Bernie has been equated w Trump on the left . His most rabid supporters are as close to trumps supporters in their behavior as you can get . And trump actually used many of Bernie’s own talking points on the stump (that he didn’t implement them is a different story) ..

Offline nosuchreality

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2019, 08:53:44 AM »
Maybe I'm too cynical and think the average taxpayer is actually stupid.  I seriously doubt many, even more than fifty percent think their tax went up or down based on whether they had bigger or smaller refund or the last check they had to send was bigger or smaller.

I'm that jaded, that the majority do understand, and can't do the math to determine if their take home pay was bigger, smaller and if told they're total tax paid was bigger or smaller and it doesn't match the I sent a bigger or smaller check on tax day, they're confused and go with the size of the check they wrote.

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #133 on: April 18, 2019, 09:34:57 AM »
Maybe I'm too cynical and think the average taxpayer is actually stupid.  I seriously doubt many, even more than fifty percent think their tax went up or down based on whether they had bigger or smaller refund or the last check they had to send was bigger or smaller.

I'm that jaded, that the majority do understand, and can't do the math to determine if their take home pay was bigger, smaller and if told they're total tax paid was bigger or smaller and it doesn't match the I sent a bigger or smaller check on tax day, they're confused and go with the size of the check they wrote.

Nope...you are right on.  The vast majority of American taxpayers think that a refund is a good thing, when in reality it is just an interest-free loan to the government.  But that also goes to the perception is reality issue.  People don't care that they got $30 or $50 more in their paycheck every month...most people have direct deposit now and probably don't even the exact amount they are supposed to get paid.  That's not even talking about people who work hourly and whose pay fluctuates.  For those people, getting a refund check is like hitting a mini lottery.  There is a joy that comes with it.

Obama did this with the payroll tax in 2009 and got no political benefit from it.  People just didn't see it.  Trump made the same mistake this time around but because they wanted to use the tax cut to run on in the midterm.  Now, it's just a giant political (arguably economic) failure.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: SALT Deduction
« Reply #134 on: April 18, 2019, 11:46:18 AM »
So if people aren't affected by a marginal tax change (up or down), why do some say this affected housing?
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