steppingup
New member
I think, well, I know I'm done... anyone who wants to keep in touch, PM me with your e-mail. It's been a lot of fun.
Ciao
- Thread starter steppingup
- Start date
centralcoast
New member
I'm sorry.... who will tell us when it's time to plant tomatoes?????
roundcorners
New member
what happened? everyone was so nice to each other, even graph and novas was on their best behavior... we all want to see this forum thrive; I know it's not going to be like it was before... we can be better...
A
Anonymous
Guest
When SoCal asked if I would be a moderator for a couple of the threads, I was concerned that I didn't spend enough time on this (or any) discussion board to be effective --- it appears that was an accurate assessment.
I've reviewed the various threads leading up to this one, and continue to believe (as I stated before on IHB) that this is a COMMUNITY DISCUSSION FORUM, and that wedge issues like politics, religion, abortion, sexual orientation --- etc, etc really do not fit what we are trying to do here. Generally, no good can come out of those discussions --- not because they are without merit --- but because the people inclined to engage in those discussions are such extreme partisans on either side of the issue you will never change their mind. I liken the TI boards to the watercooler in a professional workplace. Yes, there are "non-professional" related conversations all day long around the workplace watercooler. But it would NEVER be considered appropriate etiquette to bring up any of the topics I noted above, for the very reasons noted above. That's why they are called wedge issues, folks.
Trooper and WINEX --- I hope you two both realize that you are extreme partisans on either side of the respective issue. On either side of any political issue there are a fringe 10% who are very partisan, and the other 80% of all people fall in the middle. Most don't come to Talk Irvine to hear partisan howling on these subjects --- there are more appropriate forums to engage in that discussion. Talk Irvine is a board to discuss various local issues in a civilized manner, whether it real estate, local and regional economy, schools, resturants, local activities, etc. But the wedge topic poison pill was introduced and it is most unfortunate that two valued contributors to this COMMUNITY FORUM seem to have been caught up in it. I truly hope that stepping up and tmare will rethink their decisions. Both of your respective contributions regarding on the cities you live, gardening, schools and so on are exactly the type of contributions this forum is looking for. I'm sorry that you have been caught up in this discussion.
As far as Trooper and WINEX, I understand you both have a very strong opinion on this and other politically charged issues --- but you must both understand that this is YOUR political hot button, and most of us regardless of our political leanings do not feel nearly as strongly one way or the other. Trooper, I agree with you 100% that all Americans should be afforded the same rights, and I voted as such. But for obvious reasons I am not and cannot be an activist on this issue. I've got other fish to fry in my life. I am sure you can appreciate that. We've all got our individual crusades --- I have one, too. But a local community discussion forum is not necessarily the appropriate venue.
WINEX, your incessant baiting of Trooper on an issue that you know is so personal (and hurtful) to her is unacceptable. On the same token, Trooper, it was unacceptable for you to take a backhanded swipe at SoCal for being "church buddies" with WINEX. Stereotyping is just as bad from either side.
So in summary, Tmare and Stepping up --- please rethink your decision to leave. Trooper and WINEX, please consider the venue for your discussion, and I hope you both stay to discuss the local community issues. But stop the wedge issue discussions at TI and take it to an appropriate forum --- because it will serve no purpose here but to destroy this community. If you cannot discuss in a civil manner the topics this community is founded on, then in my opinion its best that you both move on.
I've reviewed the various threads leading up to this one, and continue to believe (as I stated before on IHB) that this is a COMMUNITY DISCUSSION FORUM, and that wedge issues like politics, religion, abortion, sexual orientation --- etc, etc really do not fit what we are trying to do here. Generally, no good can come out of those discussions --- not because they are without merit --- but because the people inclined to engage in those discussions are such extreme partisans on either side of the issue you will never change their mind. I liken the TI boards to the watercooler in a professional workplace. Yes, there are "non-professional" related conversations all day long around the workplace watercooler. But it would NEVER be considered appropriate etiquette to bring up any of the topics I noted above, for the very reasons noted above. That's why they are called wedge issues, folks.
Trooper and WINEX --- I hope you two both realize that you are extreme partisans on either side of the respective issue. On either side of any political issue there are a fringe 10% who are very partisan, and the other 80% of all people fall in the middle. Most don't come to Talk Irvine to hear partisan howling on these subjects --- there are more appropriate forums to engage in that discussion. Talk Irvine is a board to discuss various local issues in a civilized manner, whether it real estate, local and regional economy, schools, resturants, local activities, etc. But the wedge topic poison pill was introduced and it is most unfortunate that two valued contributors to this COMMUNITY FORUM seem to have been caught up in it. I truly hope that stepping up and tmare will rethink their decisions. Both of your respective contributions regarding on the cities you live, gardening, schools and so on are exactly the type of contributions this forum is looking for. I'm sorry that you have been caught up in this discussion.
As far as Trooper and WINEX, I understand you both have a very strong opinion on this and other politically charged issues --- but you must both understand that this is YOUR political hot button, and most of us regardless of our political leanings do not feel nearly as strongly one way or the other. Trooper, I agree with you 100% that all Americans should be afforded the same rights, and I voted as such. But for obvious reasons I am not and cannot be an activist on this issue. I've got other fish to fry in my life. I am sure you can appreciate that. We've all got our individual crusades --- I have one, too. But a local community discussion forum is not necessarily the appropriate venue.
WINEX, your incessant baiting of Trooper on an issue that you know is so personal (and hurtful) to her is unacceptable. On the same token, Trooper, it was unacceptable for you to take a backhanded swipe at SoCal for being "church buddies" with WINEX. Stereotyping is just as bad from either side.
So in summary, Tmare and Stepping up --- please rethink your decision to leave. Trooper and WINEX, please consider the venue for your discussion, and I hope you both stay to discuss the local community issues. But stop the wedge issue discussions at TI and take it to an appropriate forum --- because it will serve no purpose here but to destroy this community. If you cannot discuss in a civil manner the topics this community is founded on, then in my opinion its best that you both move on.
iacrenter
Well-known member
[quote author="ck"]When SoCal asked if I would be a moderator for a couple of the threads, I was concerned that I didn't spend enough time on this (or any) discussion board to be effective --- it appears that was an accurate assessment.
I've reviewed the various threads leading up to this one, and continue to believe (as I stated before on IHB) that this is a COMMUNITY DISCUSSION FORUM, and that wedge issues like politics, religion, abortion, sexual orientation --- etc, etc really do not fit what we are trying to do here. Generally, no good can come out of those discussions --- not because they are without merit --- but because the people inclined to engage in those discussions are such extreme partisans on either side of the issue you will never change their mind. I liken the TI boards to the watercooler in a professional workplace. Yes, there are "non-professional" related conversations all day long around the workplace watercooler. But it would NEVER be considered appropriate etiquette to bring up any of the topics I noted above, for the very reasons noted above. That's why they are called wedge issues, folks.
[/quote]
I have to agree with CK here. Although TI Water Cooler should be a place where anything can be discussed in a civil manner, the reality is there is too much emotion tied to these "wedge" issues. I have strong opinions on these topics but I purposely chose not to participate in the discussion for the above reasons. There are other boards and venues to better discuss these issues. If we really want TI to continue as a community we need to focus on areas where we have common ground.
I've reviewed the various threads leading up to this one, and continue to believe (as I stated before on IHB) that this is a COMMUNITY DISCUSSION FORUM, and that wedge issues like politics, religion, abortion, sexual orientation --- etc, etc really do not fit what we are trying to do here. Generally, no good can come out of those discussions --- not because they are without merit --- but because the people inclined to engage in those discussions are such extreme partisans on either side of the issue you will never change their mind. I liken the TI boards to the watercooler in a professional workplace. Yes, there are "non-professional" related conversations all day long around the workplace watercooler. But it would NEVER be considered appropriate etiquette to bring up any of the topics I noted above, for the very reasons noted above. That's why they are called wedge issues, folks.
[/quote]
I have to agree with CK here. Although TI Water Cooler should be a place where anything can be discussed in a civil manner, the reality is there is too much emotion tied to these "wedge" issues. I have strong opinions on these topics but I purposely chose not to participate in the discussion for the above reasons. There are other boards and venues to better discuss these issues. If we really want TI to continue as a community we need to focus on areas where we have common ground.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Don't leave, you guys. If you do, the terrorists win.
zubs
Well-known member
I'm all about being a bloodsucking vampire squid, so I'll throw in my thoughts. If we had to get rid of someone, I'd say throw Winex to the dogs....I may have some law enforcement questions for Trooper in the coming months/years so she is more valuable to me.......although I voted for Winex to stay.
I agree with CK. Political issues are so divisive for most that a rational, reasonable conversation is nearly impossible. I wish it was different as I actually enjoy political/international discussions. However, I don't engage in them on the internet because it's pointless. Everyone should stay.
Thats what separates the "Men from the Boys" in a forum like this. The ability to communicate in a civil and adult manner. To "agree to disagree". Even in Politics or Sexual Orientation.
But when you start pulling out articles that are so fringe as Winex did you cross the line. Posting what he did in Troopers "Gay" thread was beyond rude. It was intended to be hurtful and insight pain within the forum.
His intentions were not with the welfare of the community in his mind. Or to bring a meaningful discussion to the group. They were pure gay-bashing at its best. Almost a hate crime in my book.
But when you start pulling out articles that are so fringe as Winex did you cross the line. Posting what he did in Troopers "Gay" thread was beyond rude. It was intended to be hurtful and insight pain within the forum.
His intentions were not with the welfare of the community in his mind. Or to bring a meaningful discussion to the group. They were pure gay-bashing at its best. Almost a hate crime in my book.
centralcoast
New member
I also applaude CK's statement. The behavior he describes is how reasonable people behave when there is a wide assortment of viewpoints present in a group. In mild defense of Trooper, however, several people commented to her that they wanted more information about how to get involved in the issue of "gay rights" - mayhap better called "equal rights"- and that may be why she started her thread. It perhaps would have been better to use PM's... as an example, I'm pro-life (and also pro- gay marriage, so don't try to stereotype me... you'd probably be wrong...).... but I wouldn't use TalkIrvine as a forum to discuss that topic.
biscuitninja
New member
Well, as others said, we will have several large contributors lost. For me, its all about me, annoying people tend to get put on "Ignore". Not not enough time in my life to fight everybody in this world.
Hoping to see you guys here.
Hoping to see you guys here.
roundcorners
New member
well said CK, everyone needs to cool off, for a bit and come back together... hot topic will bound to come up, and emotionally charged topics need to be especially monitored in a civilized, respected manner.
Like I said before, fighting, and disagreeing isn't necessary bad, but we need to fight fair, with ground rules of engagement.
Now... I'm sure most of us haven't got the best modeling on healthy conflict resolution; that is why each of us play a role in leveling out the emotional punches below the belt and call it out for what it is. So, please don't get into a ONE-ON-ONE on the weekends when no one else is around...
Like I said before, fighting, and disagreeing isn't necessary bad, but we need to fight fair, with ground rules of engagement.
Now... I'm sure most of us haven't got the best modeling on healthy conflict resolution; that is why each of us play a role in leveling out the emotional punches below the belt and call it out for what it is. So, please don't get into a ONE-ON-ONE on the weekends when no one else is around...
trrenter
New member
I think the issue you are going to have if you limit what can be talked about is the decline in participation on this board.
Is there really enough to talk about if you limit the discussion to just Irvine?
I am not offended by Troopers thread and I sympathize with her position and she is a member of the TI community. Should we say we accept you Troop but please do not post a Gay Thread? I would think there are gay people in Irvine so this is a topic that would be pertinent to some people in Irvine.
Nobody is forcing anyone to read the gay thread and if someone does read the gay thread and is offended they are not too bright for reading it.
On the other hand though Troop knows that some segment of the population is vehemently opposed to her message and she should be prepared to hear about it. (I again am not saying that the people that oppose the message are right, they do have a right to oppose the message just as much as Troop has the right to post the message.)
Right now in Irvine and almost everywhere in the country Politics is a subject that is being heavily debated, the war, healthcare, the economy etc. To say that discussing Politics' has no place in a board dedicated to Irvine would indicate Politics are not important to Irvineites. That is not the case.
If you strip away subjects that could divide the board then you strip away any reason to come here unless the idea is to promote Group Think.
The idea that you need an ignore button to ignore someone is ridiculous. I have people in my everyday life I ignore because they piss me off or annoy me. I don't have a button for that. I just know that if they want to discuss an issue that will lead to me throwing my hands up and wanting to call them an idiot I just don't engage with them.
The same can be done here on this board. I think we are all adults, I have looked at some of the "offending" threads and really none of the offenses seem particularly egregious. If you don't agree with them or the approach that was taken that is understandable but can anyone here actually say that in the society we live in today that what was said in those threads was the worse thing they have heard this week? I have seen and heard worse at the customer service counter at Toy's R Us this week.
Discussions do get heated, some times things are said that may hurt someone's feelings but are we all really that sensitive that we need to quit?
If you don't want a politics section then maybe a section for "touchy subjects" with a warning things might get heated, enter at your own risk, moderators cannot be held accountable for the things said and the viewpoints shared.
Is there really enough to talk about if you limit the discussion to just Irvine?
I am not offended by Troopers thread and I sympathize with her position and she is a member of the TI community. Should we say we accept you Troop but please do not post a Gay Thread? I would think there are gay people in Irvine so this is a topic that would be pertinent to some people in Irvine.
Nobody is forcing anyone to read the gay thread and if someone does read the gay thread and is offended they are not too bright for reading it.
On the other hand though Troop knows that some segment of the population is vehemently opposed to her message and she should be prepared to hear about it. (I again am not saying that the people that oppose the message are right, they do have a right to oppose the message just as much as Troop has the right to post the message.)
Right now in Irvine and almost everywhere in the country Politics is a subject that is being heavily debated, the war, healthcare, the economy etc. To say that discussing Politics' has no place in a board dedicated to Irvine would indicate Politics are not important to Irvineites. That is not the case.
If you strip away subjects that could divide the board then you strip away any reason to come here unless the idea is to promote Group Think.
The idea that you need an ignore button to ignore someone is ridiculous. I have people in my everyday life I ignore because they piss me off or annoy me. I don't have a button for that. I just know that if they want to discuss an issue that will lead to me throwing my hands up and wanting to call them an idiot I just don't engage with them.
The same can be done here on this board. I think we are all adults, I have looked at some of the "offending" threads and really none of the offenses seem particularly egregious. If you don't agree with them or the approach that was taken that is understandable but can anyone here actually say that in the society we live in today that what was said in those threads was the worse thing they have heard this week? I have seen and heard worse at the customer service counter at Toy's R Us this week.
Discussions do get heated, some times things are said that may hurt someone's feelings but are we all really that sensitive that we need to quit?
If you don't want a politics section then maybe a section for "touchy subjects" with a warning things might get heated, enter at your own risk, moderators cannot be held accountable for the things said and the viewpoints shared.
