Author Topic: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans  (Read 5632 times)

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Offline misme

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2018, 10:44:56 AM »

Formulaic is not personality.  Following a checklist is neither original nor personality.

Seriously, look at Uni high and all the resume padding clubs.  That's what they really are, resume padding clubs.

Unfortunately, that means the people coming to interview the kids at Uni or the other area schools see a bunch of high achieving grinders that look very similar. 


Seriously, how many of the kids that graduated from Uni last year had the chops to actually do the curriculum at Harvard?  Each of them is a unique and precious California flower. 



I try not to blanket the kids I interview.  But due to where I live, they're all Irvine Asian kids.  In the decade or so since I've been doing this, most of them are pretty "unremarkable", "unmemorable" and "boring".  But every year, I interview one or two Irvine Asian kids that are above and beyond.  I can usually tell within minutes of meeting them, and it must also come across loud and clear in their application materials, because they're the ones that always get in.

I suppose the argument here is "would the other dozen or so "unremarkable" kids have gotten in if they weren't asian?".  I have no idea, but I wasn't that impressed so I can't see why the application committees would be.

honest question, would these "unremarkable" Asian high achievers be "unremarkable" if they had similar stats and extracurriculars/recommendations but were of a different race? or would your committee be gushing about how much they have achieved and are a clear admit?

to be honest, no one has ever stood out to me as a clear admit in the years that I've been doing this.
I'm beyond my 20th reunion.


Offline eyephone

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2018, 10:54:24 AM »
In general, college gets boat loads of money from application fees. (Public information)

Offline bones

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2018, 10:56:47 AM »

Formulaic is not personality.  Following a checklist is neither original nor personality.

Seriously, look at Uni high and all the resume padding clubs.  That's what they really are, resume padding clubs.

Unfortunately, that means the people coming to interview the kids at Uni or the other area schools see a bunch of high achieving grinders that look very similar. 


Seriously, how many of the kids that graduated from Uni last year had the chops to actually do the curriculum at Harvard?  Each of them is a unique and precious California flower. 



I try not to blanket the kids I interview.  But due to where I live, they're all Irvine Asian kids.  In the decade or so since I've been doing this, most of them are pretty "unremarkable", "unmemorable" and "boring".  But every year, I interview one or two Irvine Asian kids that are above and beyond.  I can usually tell within minutes of meeting them, and it must also come across loud and clear in their application materials, because they're the ones that always get in.

I suppose the argument here is "would the other dozen or so "unremarkable" kids have gotten in if they weren't asian?".  I have no idea, but I wasn't that impressed so I can't see why the application committees would be.

honest question, would these "unremarkable" Asian high achievers be "unremarkable" if they had similar stats and extracurriculars/recommendations but were of a different race? or would your committee be gushing about how much they have achieved and are a clear admit?

to be honest, no one has ever stood out to me as a clear admit in the years that I've been doing this.
I'm beyond my 20th reunion.



Honestly?  Don't know.  But using Harvard as an example, and using Irvine as the case since this is Talk Irvine.... Harvard has a 4.59% admit rate.  How many Uni seniors are Harvard material?  25??  So 1.14 get in.  Unfortunately, if you happen to be in a graduating class with a freak of nature genius or an academic sports superstar, that one spot may go to that person and not you. Or maybe Harvard takes 2 and you get in too.

But if you (collectively you, not YOU you) are worried, don't worry, Mimi Walters is on your side.  Just got a flyer... she's a UCLA grad and a mother of 4 and is OUTRAGED for Asian American students in her district being discriminated against in university admission!!!!  OUTRAGED!!!

Offline misme

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2018, 11:30:28 AM »
I suggest that all parents who own a house in Irvine for the sake of their kids' schooling should immediately sell and move to Montana, or Compton, or the Central Valley. Or move abroad and educate your kids in the expat/international school system. If you want to game the system for college admissions that is.

Also, preferably have your kid do an obscure sport and get really good at it.
Male synchronized swimming anybody?
Alpine yodeling and goat herding?
Anything to stand out...

Offline WTTCHMN

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2018, 11:43:44 AM »
I suggest that all parents who own a house in Irvine for the sake of their kids' schooling should immediately sell and move to Montana, or Compton, or the Central Valley. Or move abroad and educate your kids in the expat/international school system. If you want to game the system for college admissions that is.

Harvard calls it "sparse country":

"According to a map projected on screens in the packed courtroom, sparse country includes 20 mainly rural states like Montana, South Dakota, Alabama and West Virginia, where relatively few students, even those with excellent grades, tend to apply to elite universities like Harvard."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/us/harvard-affirmative-action-trial-asian-americans.html

Offline fortune11

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2018, 11:49:47 AM »

Formulaic is not personality.  Following a checklist is neither original nor personality.

Seriously, look at Uni high and all the resume padding clubs.  That's what they really are, resume padding clubs.

Unfortunately, that means the people coming to interview the kids at Uni or the other area schools see a bunch of high achieving grinders that look very similar. 


Seriously, how many of the kids that graduated from Uni last year had the chops to actually do the curriculum at Harvard?  Each of them is a unique and precious California flower. 



I try not to blanket the kids I interview.  But due to where I live, they're all Irvine Asian kids.  In the decade or so since I've been doing this, most of them are pretty "unremarkable", "unmemorable" and "boring".  But every year, I interview one or two Irvine Asian kids that are above and beyond.  I can usually tell within minutes of meeting them, and it must also come across loud and clear in their application materials, because they're the ones that always get in.

I suppose the argument here is "would the other dozen or so "unremarkable" kids have gotten in if they weren't asian?".  I have no idea, but I wasn't that impressed so I can't see why the application committees would be.

honest question, would these "unremarkable" Asian high achievers be "unremarkable" if they had similar stats and extracurriculars/recommendations but were of a different race? or would your committee be gushing about how much they have achieved and are a clear admit?

to be honest, no one has ever stood out to me as a clear admit in the years that I've been doing this.
I'm beyond my 20th reunion.



Honestly?  Don't know.  But using Harvard as an example, and using Irvine as the case since this is Talk Irvine.... Harvard has a 4.59% admit rate.  How many Uni seniors are Harvard material?  25??  So 1.14 get in.  Unfortunately, if you happen to be in a graduating class with a freak of nature genius or an academic sports superstar, that one spot may go to that person and not you. Or maybe Harvard takes 2 and you get in too.

But if you (collectively you, not YOU you) are worried, don't worry, Mimi Walters is on your side.  Just got a flyer... she's a UCLA grad and a mother of 4 and is OUTRAGED for Asian American students in her district being discriminated against in university admission!!!!  OUTRAGED!!!

Ha ha  — this is too funny . Mimi Walters and her flyers ...

Offline Irvine Dream

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 11:55:14 AM »

Here's a rather simple question which shows greater merit?  The kid that did several years of SAT prep camps to prepare and achieve a 2400 after multiple test attempts or the kid that achieved a 2200 or even 2000 taking the SAT once? Without attending multiple prep camps?

It is a stupid question.  No one will know how many times someone tried to take the test.  Some could also argue that someone who cared enough to take it multiple times to get a better score is a hard worker whose efforts should be rewarded.

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Offline Happiness

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2018, 12:03:20 PM »
If Harvard and other schools want to keep Asian out, they need to use an objective measure, not some squishy meanless standard like personality.

Here's something objective that will keep Asians out: dick length.

The ruler is about as objective as you can get.

Offline Irvine Dream

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2018, 12:15:20 PM »
If Harvard and other schools want to keep Asian out, they need to use an objective measure, not some squishy meanless standard like personality.

Here's something objective that will keep Asians out: dick length.

The ruler is about as objective as you can get.
Oh Shit, no women (Asian or otherwise) can get in then.  Bones should thank her lucky stars she got in prior to this criteria

Offline nosuchreality

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2018, 12:32:12 PM »
I suggest that all parents who own a house in Irvine for the sake of their kids' schooling should immediately sell and move to Montana, or Compton, or the Central Valley. Or move abroad and educate your kids in the expat/international school system. If you want to game the system for college admissions that is.

Also, preferably have your kid do an obscure sport and get really good at it.
Male synchronized swimming anybody?
Alpine yodeling and goat herding?
Anything to stand out...

LOL, hey we agree. :-)

Seriously, though, I'm curious what the non-subjective criteria would be? 


As for your unremarkable Asian kid in Irvine being remarkable elsewhere, it depends. JIMHO, If they're Whitey in an Irvinesque suburb of Whiteville, no they look pretty unremarkable. If they're Whitey coming out of Podunk USA, then yes, they are.  But then again, as Asian in Podunk, they'll be even more remarkable, IMHO.

Harvard or the other Ivies, even the UC system to a lessor extent isn't about the curriculum.

Going back to your prior post
Quote
Yes, Asians in aggregate had higher grades and test scores, but also more extra-curricular activities and leadership roles than other ethnic groups.

Is this quantity over quality?  Are 3 extra-curricular activities 3X as good as 1?   Is there a weighting factor on the time commitment, type, accomplishments of the EC?  What's the marginal benefit, to Harvard of each extracurricular activity and or additional EC?   Does the perceived value of the EC change if the school has several very similar EC groups?  Size of the EC?  If the EC meets once a month and doesn't really do anything?

What's non-subjective process to sort out reality from resume fluff,  passion from application check boxing?  For the typical Ivy applicant claiming concert level musician,  President of the Student Association, President of the pre-Med club, internship original research, math tutor of the underprivileged and a volunteer at the food bank?

Much like a job interview, once you've gotten the interview, it's not really about your accomplishments and competency, those are just chits to convince the interviewers not that you're the best, but that you're the one to make the team the best.  That's what the admit class really is, the Harvard team 20XX.




Offline nosuchreality

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2018, 12:43:58 PM »

Here's a rather simple question which shows greater merit?  The kid that did several years of SAT prep camps to prepare and achieve a 2400 after multiple test attempts or the kid that achieved a 2200 or even 2000 taking the SAT once? Without attending multiple prep camps?

It is a stupid question.  No one will know how many times someone tried to take the test.  Some could also argue that someone who cared enough to take it multiple times to get a better score is a hard worker whose efforts should be rewarded.



The UC system requires ALL test scores to be sent, our UC system, uses only the best score but requires all be sent..   Yale, Georgetown, U of Penn, etc. require all scores to be sent. 

https://blog.prepscholar.com/colleges-requiring-all-sat-scores-complete-list

Offline bones

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2018, 12:58:46 PM »

As for your unremarkable Asian kid in Irvine being remarkable elsewhere, it depends. JIMHO, If they're Whitey in an Irvinesque suburb of Whiteville, no they look pretty unremarkable. If they're Whitey coming out of Podunk USA, then yes, they are.  But then again, as Asian in Podunk, they'll be even more remarkable, IMHO.


But are they?  There are over 30,000 secondary schools in the US.  Harvard admitted less than 2,000 kids last year.  Assuming Harvard is only allowed to take one kid per school (not true), then only 6.5% of US schools even had a Harvard admit and this isn't even counting international kids and their international schools.  There are a lot of Podunk schools (and schools everywhere) with zero admits.  It's just a hard school to get into.  I'm sure there is some merit to all this but the numbers are the numbers.  22% of the 2,000 were Asian (or at least checked the Asian box), which means I'm sure there a few percentage points more that are part Asian but chose not to check the Asian box.  What's the end goal here?  For Harvard to look like Portola High? 

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Offline Perspective

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2018, 01:40:48 PM »
I suggest that all parents who own a house in Irvine for the sake of their kids' schooling should immediately sell and move to Montana, or Compton, or the Central Valley. Or move abroad and educate your kids in the expat/international school system. If you want to game the system for college admissions that is.

Also, preferably have your kid do an obscure sport and get really good at it.
Male synchronized swimming anybody?
Alpine yodeling and goat herding?
Anything to stand out...

I get that this comment is made in frustration, but it goes to the broader issue. Kids from Compton and the Central Valley are at a distinct disadvantage to Irvine kids, simply because they chose the wrong parents. There's a lot of entitled privilege in this comment.

Your Irvine child from a college-educated two-parent (both likely hold undergrad degrees and probably hold grad degrees), extremely safe neighborhood, a culture that values learning (in the family, the community, and the school system), whose parents spend many hours and dollars every week for two decades helping with schoolwork and other enrichment activities, is extremely privileged/fortunate/advantaged.

I don't support using race as a factor in college admissions, but I highly favor using socio-economic factors.

Offline Kings

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2018, 01:42:20 PM »

As for your unremarkable Asian kid in Irvine being remarkable elsewhere, it depends. JIMHO, If they're Whitey in an Irvinesque suburb of Whiteville, no they look pretty unremarkable. If they're Whitey coming out of Podunk USA, then yes, they are.  But then again, as Asian in Podunk, they'll be even more remarkable, IMHO.


But are they?  There are over 30,000 secondary schools in the US.  Harvard admitted less than 2,000 kids last year.  Assuming Harvard is only allowed to take one kid per school (not true), then only 6.5% of US schools even had a Harvard admit and this isn't even counting international kids and their international schools.  There are a lot of Podunk schools (and schools everywhere) with zero admits.  It's just a hard school to get into.  I'm sure there is some merit to all this but the numbers are the numbers.  22% of the 2,000 were Asian (or at least checked the Asian box), which means I'm sure there a few percentage points more that are part Asian but chose not to check the Asian box.  What's the end goal here?  For Harvard to look like Portola High?

the boxes clearly aren't working, as evident by harvard's very own 1/1024 native american  ;)

Offline misme

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Re: Harvard records show discrimination against Asian-Americans
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2018, 02:08:36 PM »
I suggest that all parents who own a house in Irvine for the sake of their kids' schooling should immediately sell and move to Montana, or Compton, or the Central Valley. Or move abroad and educate your kids in the expat/international school system. If you want to game the system for college admissions that is.

Also, preferably have your kid do an obscure sport and get really good at it.
Male synchronized swimming anybody?
Alpine yodeling and goat herding?
Anything to stand out...

I get that this comment is made in frustration, but it goes to the broader issue. Kids from Compton and the Central Valley are at a distinct disadvantage to Irvine kids, simply because they chose the wrong parents. There's a lot of entitled privilege in this comment.

Your Irvine child from a college-educated two-parent (both likely hold undergrad degrees and probably hold grad degrees), extremely safe neighborhood, a culture that values learning (in the family, the community, and the school system), whose parents spend many hours and dollars every week for two decades helping with schoolwork and other enrichment activities, is extremely privileged/fortunate/advantaged.

I don't support using race as a factor in college admissions, but I highly favor using socio-economic factors.

I agree with you on using socio-economic factors as a basis for affirmative action, not race.

There is some overlap between race and socio-economic factors such that using economic class as proxy would secondarily help improve racial diversity within an admitted class cohort.  But without outright racial quotas.

It speaks to a deeply ingrained stereotype in the United States that certain races=poverty and other races are rich and privileged, which is a vast oversimplification.

Fresh Prince of Bel Air family versus Appalachian coal miner family versus Hmong refugee family in the Central Valley.
OK, now let's look at African American from single parent household in inner city Chicago, versus Connecticut hedge fund scion WASP versus rich Chinese foreign national buying a 2 million dollar house in Irvine so their kids can attend public schools.  Who has privilege? Which kid deserves to have affirmative action work for them in these case? Should it be on the basis of race?




 

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