Author Topic: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts  (Read 111167 times)

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Offline Burn That Belly

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2018, 11:33:31 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:55:35 PM by Burn That Belly »
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Offline morekaos

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2018, 12:24:33 PM »
Over 90% of all mass killers have one or both of these things in common:

1) They come from broken homes.

2) They were on, or currently on mood altering pharmaceuticals.

Columbine was the exception, but the rule is clear.

As for the broken home piece, both the killer and his younger brother were adopted together - which means they were either in Foster care, or from a relative who gave them up. At minimum, the killer was at least 2 years old when adopted since news reports say his younger brother was 17. Their adoptive mother was 51 at the time she took care of these kids - a remarkable age to be taking in one infant, and a 2 year old if the reported timeline checks out. In the second case, nothing is fully verified, but some are quoted about the killer being "on medication". I'm certain this will be confirmed.

This killer isn't a product of "too many guns" but rather the natural outcome of a society that sloughs off any commitment to family, disparages personal responsibility, and promotes the hyper medication of children as an easy way to control them. Before everyone clutches their pearls about how horrible this may sound, do the research yourself. Facts can be a terrible thing sometimes.

So, do we ban divorce and meds, just as everyone wants to now ban "scary looking guns" (see below) No, because you cannot reshape society overnight, just as you cannot ban lawfully obtained weapons from being misused. There can be tweaks to the law = example: If you're on any mood altering medicine, you must hand over HOUSEHOLD weapons to law enforcement for safe keeping. "but.. but... we need a gun for safety..." OK, let us hold your guns, and give you a Taser in the mean time. Want a "bump stock"? Sure, why not, as long as they can pnly be rented only at shooting range. How about "no-bail, no parole, one-and-done" for anyone using a gun during a crime?

These are the kind of common sense gun laws I think most people would support - caretaking, not confiscation, and meaningful incarceration for real criminals.

As to the argument that "no one should have access to assault rifles" an article for you to review:

https://www.policeone.com/the-tacticalist/articles/7209499-Assault-weapons-vs-sporting-weapons-Whats-the-difference/


Yes, 99.9% of all mass killers have one thing in common: the use of a gun during their spree (although some now are starting to use trucks now...) If after reading what an "assault rifle" if you still think banning a weapon group because they look frightening to you will solve this problem, perhaps living in a "gun free zone" like Chicago or Washington DC might convince you otherwise.

My .02c

SGIP



Where were the adults? I couldn’t agree more with SGIP

From Parkland to Princeton, America's Adults Abdicate Responsibility

Nineteen-year-old Nikolas Cruz -- who mowed down Parkland, Florida, high school students and teachers, killing 17 and wounding many others -- had been thrown out of the same school for threatening his classmates. He had been bragging to them about having a personal armory and implying he would use it, justifiably frightening them.

Subsequently he posted a photo of that armory, including assault weaponry, on Instagram as well as a photo of a target riddled with bullet holes with the recommendation to try it as "group therapy." He also posted photos of dead animals, well known as a hallmark of serial killers.

 Democrats Rush to Politicize Florida School Shooting
Where were the adults in all this? Why was the youth allowed to have or obtain weapons of any sort -- assault or otherwise -- after having been ejected from school for violent threats? Why were his social media postings not being tracked by the police?  The kids all knew there was a problem.  Again, where were the adults -- not just the police, or even the politicians, but all the adults? They didn't watch Cruz, who was clearly mental ill and clearly evil.  They didn't secure the school, although there had been so many school killings since Columbine. They abdicated.

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/parkland-princeton-americas-adults-abdicate-responsibility/

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2018, 12:35:00 PM »
The Gun Business Needs This Gun-Control Measure: Joe Nocera


"Smart guns" are the exciting new product that the industry needs to revive lagging sales.By Joe Nocera

(Bloomberg View) -- Two days before the horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that killed 17 people on Wednesday, Remington Outdoor Co. announcedthat it was filing for bankruptcy protection.

Remington Outdoor is the world's biggest gun company. In addition to Remington rifles, its brands include Bushmaster, Marlin and DPMS. It is owned by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management, which is run by Stephen Feinberg, the secretive billionaire investor and pal of President Donald Trump.

Remington semiautomatic rifles were used in 2012 in the Aurora, Colorado, mass shooting and Sandy Hook massacre that traumatized the nation. In the wake of the killings at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, Feinberg said he would sell the company. He never did. A year later, though, he did change the name from Freedom Group to Remington Outdoor Co.

Remington's financial problems result from its own mistakes and an industry-wide downturn. Between 2016 and 2017, its revenue dropped from $865 million to $688 million. A competitor, American Brands Corp. (formerly Smith & Wesson), saw revenue drop from $740 million to $656 million in the same time span. And so on.
It's no secret that the reason for the slowdown in sales is the Trump presidency.

 With a strong supporter of the National Rifle Association in the White House, fewer gun owners are in a frenzy over the prospect that their guns are about to be taken away by the government. So they're not racing to their nearest gun store to stock up every time there's a mass shooting the way they did when Barack Obama was president.
There are also fewer gun owners than there used to be. Less than a third of American households own guns today, compared to nearly half in 1973, according to the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.1Half the guns in the U.S. are owned by 3 percent of the adult population.

If the gun industry hopes to get back on its feet while Trump remains president, it will need to do two things. It will need to expand the universe of customers beyond that core 3 percent. And it needs new products that will get its customers buying guns again.

Which brings us to smart guns.

Smart guns use technology to identify their owners and prevent their use by anybody else. The technology has been around for years — most smart gun prototypes use either biometrics or radio waves — but its introduction has long been blocked by the NRA and its allies.

I don't want to overstate the good that smart guns can do: They would not stop mass shootings by killers like the one in Florida who buy their guns legally. But preventing people from shooting guns that they don't own would reduce all sorts of violence, from suicides to accidental shootings by children to gun crimes that rely on stolen weapons.
Why is the NRA so opposed to smart guns? Because it fears that if smart guns became popular, legislators would mandate that all guns be equipped with the technology.
Indeed, New Jersey passed a law years ago that requires the state's gun retailers to carry only smart guns within three years of the technology becoming commercially available anywhere in the U.S. But gun-control advocates now realize that so long as that law is on the books, the NRA and its allies will never let smart guns reach the market. In 2014, a retailer faced numerous threats after saying he would stock a smart gun in his store. He never did it. New Jersey's new governor, Phil Murphy, now says he wants to change the law as quickly as possible, knowing it's an impediment to bringing smart guns to the market.
And there is evidence that a lot of people would buy a smart gun if they could. For instance, a 2015 poll conducted by Penn Schoen Berland found that 40 percent of gun owners said they would swap their gun for a smart gun. The younger the gun owner, the more likely he or she would be willing to make that swap.2
The person who made me aware of the poll was Ralph Fascitelli, co-founder of LodeStar Firearms, a new smart-gun company. LodeStar has engaged the legendary German gun designer Ernst Mauch to develop a 9-millimeter smart pistol, which will use a radio frequency to connect gun to owner.
Fascitelli pointed me to another bit of research, an online survey of law-enforcement professionals nationwide that showed that 58 percent were interested in smart guns if they were proven reliable. It is hard to know how credible this poll is, but if law enforcement were to back smart guns, it would be a big deal.
It's way too early to know whether LodeStar will be the smart-gun company that breaks through, or even whether there will be a breakthrough. But Fascitelli is correct that the conditions are right, finally, for smart guns.
Smart guns aren't the whole solution to the U.S. gun-violence problem, but they could certainly make a difference.
And they don't require a new law. They just require the market to do its thing.

Offline morekaos

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2018, 12:49:10 PM »
If you drill past the headline number you can tease out some truth.

The truth about gun deaths: numbers and actual solutions

First of all, look at the number of gun deaths on that chart from 2011. It’s 32,351. That’s a lot of gun deaths to be sure. So that’s the total number of murders by gun owners, right? The answer is not only Hell No, but it’s not even remotely close. It’s true that this figure is close to the total number of human lives ended in incidents involving a gun, but that’s all incidents. So how did those deaths happen?

Straight from the CDC where most of the media is drawing their numbers (while not as good of a source as the FBI or the Justice Department) we can find out that of those 32,352 gun deaths, 21,175 of them were suicides. That leaves us with 11,177 deaths to account for. But as it turns out, the FBI records that 8,583 deaths were murders of various sorts involving guns of all types. The remaining roughly 2,500 were accounted for by accidents and unintentional injuries. These include hunting accidents, toddlers getting hold of unsecured weapons and shooting somebody or just plain idiots who proved Darwin right.

Take a good look at those numbers. Of the actual 8,583 gun murders committed in 2011, 323 were committed with “rifles.” And that’s all rifles, including bolt action, deer hunting rifles and all the rest. The number committed with so called “assault rifles” were a fraction of that. When you ask how dangerous those rifles are, compare that to nearly 1,700 who were stabbed as well as nearly 500 murdered with blunt objects and and more than 700 beaten to death by somebody with their bare hands. Enough said on that topic.

https://hotair.com/archives/2015/10/04/the-truth-about-gun-deaths-numbers-and-actual-solutions/

Offline Burn That Belly

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2018, 12:49:20 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:55:32 PM by Burn That Belly »
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Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2018, 01:09:36 PM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it.

So I have to agree with you or I am a gun absolutist?  Get real dude.

Your prediction about gun ownership is wrong, and I posted the stats to prove it. 

Rather than accept the truth gracefully and alter your way of thinking, you make baseless attacks against the messenger.

Show me something...anything... that shows younger generations are abandoning guns.  I'll be waiting...

yes there is a lot of grace we are showing here .. there for all to see

anyways read my response to your quickly thrown together post regarding those "stats"

I read your post and you admit that 28% of adults 18-39 own a gun, and 40% live in a gun-owning household.  What does that mean to you?

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2018, 01:48:44 PM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it.

So I have to agree with you or I am a gun absolutist?  Get real dude.

Your prediction about gun ownership is wrong, and I posted the stats to prove it. 

Rather than accept the truth gracefully and alter your way of thinking, you make baseless attacks against the messenger.

Show me something...anything... that shows younger generations are abandoning guns.  I'll be waiting...

yes there is a lot of grace we are showing here .. there for all to see

anyways read my response to your quickly thrown together post regarding those "stats"

I read your post and you admit that 28% of adults 18-39 own a gun, and 40% live in a gun-owning household.  What does that mean to you?

28 percent is a lot lower than 43 percent . And nowhere near majority . What else do you want me to tell you .

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2018, 01:52:23 PM »
Where are the adults ?

We regulate many things to save people from themselves

We want adults to be responsible drivers but we still make everyone buy car insurance

This is precisely why we have social safety nets

Just because you happen to be a responsible gun owner and hopefully imparting your kids better knowledge , don’t assume everyone else is .

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2018, 02:04:01 PM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it.

So I have to agree with you or I am a gun absolutist?  Get real dude.

Your prediction about gun ownership is wrong, and I posted the stats to prove it. 

Rather than accept the truth gracefully and alter your way of thinking, you make baseless attacks against the messenger.

Show me something...anything... that shows younger generations are abandoning guns.  I'll be waiting...

yes there is a lot of grace we are showing here .. there for all to see

anyways read my response to your quickly thrown together post regarding those "stats"

I read your post and you admit that 28% of adults 18-39 own a gun, and 40% live in a gun-owning household.  What does that mean to you?

28 percent is a lot lower than 43 percent . And nowhere near majority . What else do you want me to tell you .

It doesn't sound like the kids are giving up guns just yet.  The percentages are only slightly lower than Boomers.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #114 on: February 16, 2018, 02:27:22 PM »
I think it will just get worse. With CSGo, PUBG and Overwatch... our next generation is all about guns.

Because we all know playing shooters make you want to own a gun or murder half a school...

I guess the older generation is all about blaming video games.

+ 1

Fox News and CNN have done to our parents what they thought violent video games would do to us :) 


So you guys want to talk seriously about this?

Weren't the shooters in some of the recent shootings big FPS players?

Psychology will tell you that exposure to this type of stuff desensitizes you and for those on the edges, the playing of video games makes them crave the actual experience... not just shooting a gun but shooting live targets.

I'm not saying *everyone* will want to do this, but just like movies, YouTube, whatever, repeated exposure can affect behavior in young people.

I think we can agree that it's the smaller percentage that are the perpetrators of this kind of crime whether it be mental or social disconnection... but there also has to be influences where this disconnection is encouraged.

Now back to the jokes.
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Offline Burn That Belly

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #115 on: February 16, 2018, 02:36:10 PM »
x
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:55:30 PM by Burn That Belly »
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Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #116 on: February 16, 2018, 03:01:42 PM »
I have been playing fairly violent video games since I grew up. These include classics:

Duke Nukem
Doom
Unreal
Shadow Warrior
Call of Duty
Quake
Grand Theft Auto
Mortal Kombat
Resident Evil
Hitman
For Honor

Many of these are quite bloody, showing limbs being blown off, strangulation (hitman), For Honor is the latest one (showing decapitations) etc.

I disagree. It didn't desensitize me. I know right from wrong. That is fantasy. This is reality. I turned out okay.  ;D

That's implying that adult videos will incite young people to want to go out and commit sexual assault simply because the "actresses" in the videos enjoy it. But in reality, they are just that, actors doing a job and getting paid for it.

Agree . Doom and call of duty for me . But see , I Still turned out to be a gun safety advocate :)

One example , one example , one example ... yes yes yes

All you have to look at is combined sales of these video games and the percentage of active real life shooters from those ... evidence is pretty clear here from hard data ( my favorite word )

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2018, 03:05:52 PM »
Again, for the majority it will have no effect.

It’s the fringe who are at risk. And the increasing realism and even VR experience makes it more influential.

If it affected the majority it would be 18 not 3.
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Offline marmott

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2018, 04:17:54 PM »
But would the fringe not be affected by any other violent media around?

Nobody seems to be in a hurry to blame violent movies or TV shows.

Regarding VR, good luck finding something remotely realistic right now. VR has been pretty dead for a while, no AAA title was developed for it.

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2018, 04:22:42 PM »
Don't forget listening to heavy metal music and playing Dungeons & Dragons turns people evil too.

 

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