Author Topic: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts  (Read 28027 times)

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Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2018, 01:00:33 PM »
We don't need gun control more than we need mental control. Unfortunately, the US healthcare system is not in the business of curing and rehabilitation. It is in the business of controlling symptoms with drugs to reap in profits. This is a systemic problem.

You want to solve mass shootings, drunk driving, rapes, murders, you solve it from the molecular level by way of gene therapy/selective breeding. 

(Scientists have already uncovered the "anger" gene: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1176974/Keep-losing-temper-Blame-angry-gene.html)

Now we are getting somewhere ...

Would love to see analysis of blue voters and red voters and see who has more of the anger gene

Or Fox News viewers and MSNBC  viewers will do as well :)

Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 01:01:33 PM »
Over 90% of all mass killers have one or both of these things in common:

1) They come from broken homes.

2) They were on, or currently on mood altering pharmaceuticals.

Columbine was the exception, but the rule is clear.

As for the broken home piece, both the killer and his younger brother were adopted together - which means they were either in Foster care, or from a relative who gave them up. At minimum, the killer was at least 2 years old when adopted since news reports say his younger brother was 17. Their adoptive mother was 51 at the time she took care of these kids - a remarkable age to be taking in one infant, and a 2 year old if the reported timeline checks out. In the second case, nothing is fully verified, but some are quoted about the killer being "on medication". I'm certain this will be confirmed.

This killer isn't a product of "too many guns" but rather the natural outcome of a society that sloughs off any commitment to family, disparages personal responsibility, and promotes the hyper medication of children as an easy way to control them. Before everyone clutches their pearls about how horrible this may sound, do the research yourself. Facts can be a terrible thing sometimes.

So, do we ban divorce and meds, just as everyone wants to now ban "scary looking guns" (see below) No, because you cannot reshape society overnight, just as you cannot ban lawfully obtained weapons from being misused. There can be tweaks to the law = example: If you're on any mood altering medicine, you must hand over HOUSEHOLD weapons to law enforcement for safe keeping. "but.. but... we need a gun for safety..." OK, let us hold your guns, and give you a Taser in the mean time. Want a "bump stock"? Sure, why not, as long as they can pnly be rented only at shooting range. How about "no-bail, no parole, one-and-done" for anyone using a gun during a crime?

These are the kind of common sense gun laws I think most people would support - caretaking, not confiscation, and meaningful incarceration for real criminals.

As to the argument that "no one should have access to assault rifles" an article for you to review:

https://www.policeone.com/the-tacticalist/articles/7209499-Assault-weapons-vs-sporting-weapons-Whats-the-difference/


Yes, 99.9% of all mass killers have one thing in common: the use of a gun during their spree (although some now are starting to use trucks now...) If after reading what an "assault rifle" if you still think banning a weapon group because they look frightening to you will solve this problem, perhaps living in a "gun free zone" like Chicago or Washington DC might convince you otherwise.

My .02c

SGIP

« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:20:21 PM by Soylent Green Is People »

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Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 01:16:54 PM »
Chicago is the big boogeyman gun advocates love to use but people forget that Indiana with it’s super lax gun laws , is right next door . Plenty of supply available there .

But yes , common sense gun reforms are what everyone can agree to — now who will tell the NRA ?

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 01:21:40 PM »
Over 90% of all mass killers have one or both of these things in common:

1) They come from broken homes.

2) They were on, or currently on mood altering pharmaceuticals.

Columbine was the exception, but the rule is clear.

As for the broken home piece, both the killer and his younger brother were adopted together - which means they were either in Foster care, or from a relative who gave them up. At minimum, the killer was at least 2 years old when adopted since news reports say his younger brother was 17. Their adoptive mother was 51 at the time she took care of these kids - a remarkable age to be taking in one infant, and a 2 year old if the reported timeline checks out. In the second case, nothing is fully verified, but some are quoted about the killer being "on medication". I'm certain this will be confirmed.

This killer isn't a product of "too many guns" but rather the natural outcome of a society that sloughs off any commitment to family, disparages personal responsibility, and promotes the hyper medication of children as an easy way to control them. Before everyone clutches their pearls about how horrible this may sound, do the research yourself. Facts can be a terrible thing sometimes.

So, do we ban divorce and meds, just as everyone wants to now ban "scary looking guns" (see below) No, because you cannot reshape society overnight, just as you cannot ban lawfully obtained weapons from being misused. There can be tweaks to the law = example: If you're on any mood altering medicine, you must hand over HOUSEHOLD weapons to law enforcement for safe keeping. "but.. but... we need a gun for safety..." OK, let us hold your guns, and give you a Taser in the mean time. Want a "bump stock"? Sure, why not, as long as they can pnly be rented only at shooting range. How about "no-bail, no parole, one-and-done" for anyone using a gun during a crime?

These are the kind of common sense gun laws I think most people would support - caretaking, not confiscation, and meaningful incarceration for real criminals.

As to the argument that "no one should have access to assault rifles" an article for you to review:

https://www.policeone.com/the-tacticalist/articles/7209499-Assault-weapons-vs-sporting-weapons-Whats-the-difference/


Yes, 99.9% of all mass killers have one thing in common: the use of a gun during their spree (although some now are starting to use trucks now...) If after reading what an "assault rifle" if you still think banning a weapon group because they look frightening to you will solve this problem, perhaps living in a "gun free zone" like Chicago or Washington DC might convince you otherwise.

My .02c

SGIP

And yet mass shooting don't happen elsewhere...I mean is the US the only country with those problems?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:29:10 PM by Irvinecommuter »

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 01:24:29 PM »
Chicago is the big boogeyman gun advocates love to use but people forget that Indiana with it’s super lax gun laws , is right next door . Plenty of supply available there .

But yes , common sense gun reforms are what everyone can agree to — now who will tell the NRA ?

I mean 80-90% are just numbers

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/oct/03/chris-abele/do-90-americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/

Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2018, 01:26:37 PM »
Irvine Commuter - perhaps those at the Bataclan may disagree with you. No matter the weapon of choice - gun, truck, bomb, knife, poison, there are plenty of mass killings that are not gun related.  Everyone loves the stat that Australia banned guns and killings were reduced... a good thing... but they fail to mention that the crime rate soared thereafter - a bad, and ongoing problem. Oh... and criminals still have access to guns.

It's not the NRA that needs convincing on this. It's the hard left, those soft of head who believe you can legislate a solution. Everyone would support something in the middle, but when those on the other side wish to focus only on bans, you end up where we are at present.

The inherent problem in the "gun control" debate isn't "guns" its "control" Do we want a Government in control of this issue? To some degree, but not to the level that everyone screams about right after a mass killing like this.

My .02c

Offline eyephone

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2018, 01:27:35 PM »
A group is claiming he was a member.

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2018, 01:30:28 PM »
It's not the NRA that needs convincing. It's the hard left, those soft of head who believe you can legislate a solution. Everyone would support something in the middle, but when those on the other side wish to focus only on bans, you end up where we are at present.

The inherent problem in the "gun control" debate isn't "guns" its "control" Do we want a Government in control of this issue? To some degree, but not to the level that everyone screams about right after a mass killing like this.

My .02c

Why not?  Don't the government control a lot of other things?  I mean even speech is subject to "control" and restrictions by the government.

Offline Ready2Downsize

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2018, 01:30:46 PM »
What do you mean the U.S. is the only country?

What about the shooting July 2016 in Munich? 9 dead, 27 injured.

Or Serbia in July 2016? 5 dead, 22 injured.

What about the Norway massacre where the shooter took a ferry to a summer camp?  77 dead?

Britain's had a few. Dunblane comes to mind. 16 kids (all but one innocent 5 year olds) and a teacher.

What about the suicide bombers?

Those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 01:36:18 PM by Ready2Downsize »

Offline Burn That Belly

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2018, 01:35:55 PM »
x
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:54:04 PM by Burn That Belly »
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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
Irvine Commuter - perhaps those at the Bataclan may disagree with you. No matter the weapon of choice - gun, truck, bomb, knife, poison, there are plenty of mass killings that are not gun related.  Everyone loves the stat that Australia banned guns and killings were reduced... a good thing... but they fail to mention that the crime rate soared thereafter - a bad, and ongoing problem. Oh... and criminals still have access to guns.


My .02c

Bombs are illegal.  Knives are harmful but I much rather a crazy person have knife than a gun.  Not to mention the the cost/benefit analysis of a knife versus a military assault type weapon.     

And the Australia thing is categorically false.  There is very little evidence the gun ownership means lower crime.  There is a lot of evidence that gun control work to reduce gun violence both domestically and overseas.

https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/

https://www.sciencealert.com/studies-show-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-to-save-lives

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16418754/gun-control-washington-post

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/


Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2018, 01:42:41 PM »
What do you mean the U.S. is the only country?

What about the shooting July 2016 in Munich? 9 dead, 27 injured.

Or Serbia in July 2016? 5 dead, 22 injured.

What about the Norway massacre where the shooter took a ferry to a summer camp?  77 dead?

Britain's had a few. Dunblane comes to mind. 16 kids (all but one innocent 5 year olds) and a teacher.

What about the suicide bombers?

Those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Okay...

Dunblane was 1996...after which UK imposed a gun ban.   

http://theconversation.com/dunblane-massacre-20-years-on-how-britain-rewrote-its-gun-laws-and-the-challenge-it-faces-now-55896

Norway happened in 2011 and they imposed strict gun bans.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-16/what-can-us-learn-norways-gun-laws

Serbia?  Really Serbia? 

http://www.dw.com/en/serbia-the-land-of-guns/a-36946878

What about suicide bombers?  Somehow because suicide bombers exist, we should not try to deal with gun violence?  That's like saying well we don't need to worry about cancer because you will probably die of a heart attack.

We have had 18 school shooting already this year...18.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/florida-school-shooting-brings-yearly-tally-to-18-in-2018.html

Offline Burn That Belly

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:02 PM »
x
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:54:28 PM by Burn That Belly »
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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:29 PM »
And yet mass shooting don't happen elsewhere...I mean is the US the only country with those problems?

What?!!??!?!  Are you kidding me?

Uhhh.... hello... Paris, November 2015... 130 people dead...


You don't need guns to inflict harm. The Boston Bombing was a prime example of a quick and easy to inflict harm instantaneously. Shooting requires a lot of precision, timing, and ensuring that your guns don't jam and somebody doesn't tackle you. Bombs are more effective (Boston Massacre) because you can set it and forget it. The Tsarnaev brothers had an arsenal of guns but I'm sure they knew that wasn't the most effective way to bring chaos.

264 people were injured and 16 lost their limbs and 3 died.

So we shouldn't do anything about gun violence because there are other ways that people can harm each other?   Then why have any laws?

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2018, 01:43:57 PM »
Bombs are illegal.

So is drunk driving. Anyone can google how to build a bomb. how do you think the Tsarnaev brothers did it?

Then why have any laws?  We have laws against murder and rape and that still happens.  Heck...free for all.

 

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