Author Topic: Midterm Elections  (Read 45564 times)

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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #885 on: July 20, 2018, 02:54:20 PM »
Originalists may be "silly", but there is a process in place to change the law if one believes an amendment is wrong or poorly written. That process is still worth exploring by the elected, not by the appointed. Yes, it's labor intensive and doesn't always work 100% of the time. Tell me.... What does?

Example: Trumpers wanted strict and significant immigration reform. A single judge in Hawaii felt otherwise. That judge was overturned several times by the Supreme Court wasting plenty of time on all sides. It's fair to say that Trumpers want a judge to keep to the original intent of the law as created and not self interpreted things on his own. Judges such as the one in Hawaii will eventually be replaced, and when they are, it's hopefully by someone who reads the print of the law, not makes up an interpretation of law out of thin air.

One could go back to Rose Bird, who refused to enforce the law on Capital Punishment, or the Judge in the Brock Turner case who gave even less than a slap on the wrist than what was intended by real sentencing rules.  It's these kind of judges the Trumpers are wanting out of the system. Can one blame them?

This isn't a debate on immigration, gun control, capital punishment, or mandatory sentencing. It's a debate on courtroom shopping combined with judicial activism - a practice BOTH SIDES use to abuse the law. It's my belief that with more Originalists than Activists on the bench you'll eventually get a better system of law interpretation.

We will soon find out at POTUS and the Senate approve more and more judges.

My .02c
Aww man, you had to pour water on Perspective/fortune11/Irvinecommuter's Friday afternoon circle jerk. I was waiting to see how long it would last. Nevertheless, you bring up an often ignored point by liberals who complain the Constitution is a fossil so judges have to change it. There is a mechanism built into the Consitution to change it. Instead of asking what the founding father's thought about abortion, why not amend the Constitution to make abortion an explicit right?

This is one of the sillier originalist arguments out there...a constitutional amendment is virtual impossible with 50 states and 300+ million people...a constitutional amendment requires ratification by 75% of the Congress and then 75% of the states.   

Again...the Constitution is not at issue...the constitutionality of certain laws are.

Offline Perspective

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #886 on: July 20, 2018, 03:01:37 PM »
Originalists may be "silly", but there is a process in place to change the law if one believes an amendment is wrong or poorly written. That process is still worth exploring by the elected, not by the appointed. Yes, it's labor intensive and doesn't always work 100% of the time. Tell me.... What does?

Example: Trumpers wanted strict and significant immigration reform. A single judge in Hawaii felt otherwise. That judge was overturned several times by the Supreme Court wasting plenty of time on all sides. It's fair to say that Trumpers want a judge to keep to the original intent of the law as created and not self interpreted things on his own. Judges such as the one in Hawaii will eventually be replaced, and when they are, it's hopefully by someone who reads the print of the law, not makes up an interpretation of law out of thin air.

One could go back to Rose Bird, who refused to enforce the law on Capital Punishment, or the Judge in the Brock Turner case who gave even less than a slap on the wrist than what was intended by real sentencing rules.  It's these kind of judges the Trumpers are wanting out of the system. Can one blame them?

This isn't a debate on immigration, gun control, capital punishment, or mandatory sentencing. It's a debate on courtroom shopping combined with judicial activism - a practice BOTH SIDES use to abuse the law. It's my belief that with more Originalists than Activists on the bench you'll eventually get a better system of law interpretation.

We will soon find out at POTUS and the Senate approve more and more judges.

My .02c
Aww man, you had to pour water on Perspective/fortune11/Irvinecommuter's Friday afternoon circle jerk. I was waiting to see how long it would last. Nevertheless, you bring up an often ignored point by liberals who complain the Constitution is a fossil so judges have to change it. There is a mechanism built into the Consitution to change it. Instead of asking what the founding father's thought about abortion, why not amend the Constitution to make abortion an explicit right?

This is one of the sillier originalist arguments out there...a constitutional amendment is virtual impossible with 50 states and 300+ million people...a constitutional amendment requires ratification by 75% of the Congress and then 75% of the states.   

Again...the Constitution is not at issue...the constitutionality of certain laws are.

Also, it's an argument completely ignored when the result is one conservatives desire.

Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #887 on: July 20, 2018, 04:11:51 PM »
If your argument is solid it will pass.

If your argument isnt,.... that's the beauty of the amendment process.

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Offline fortune11

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #888 on: July 20, 2018, 04:17:39 PM »
I will leave it at this

In programing language a recursive function is one which calls upon itself repeatedly in a program.

So to solve the big problem, it uses the same small problem over and over as the solution to an increasingly complex solution

Our country, in a nutshell, is a recursive function

Yes there were founding fathers who were racists, yes we committed genocide, but ultimately we saw the flaws in our sins and tried to fix them again and again and again.  throughout the ages.  doesn't mean we have to gloss over the tragedies of the past.  It also doesnt mean we have to be beholden to a romantic vision of America that was flawed to begin with. 

This is how this country works -- we find flaws and we fix it .  that is the essence of liberalism.  in that sense liberalism is not equal to socialism.  what is happening right now is the function of rolling back progress in the name of some romantic ideal of the past which never was.  Another flaw which applies uniquely to old people -- selective recall of the past. 

Europe is way behind in all this and have always played catchup.  Same for other developing countries. 

People dont realize this but this is the last lurch towards the right before our country overcomes these problems yet again and moves forward.  What happened in California in the 90s when the state moved right before it moved left, is very instructive. 

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #889 on: July 20, 2018, 04:46:10 PM »
If your argument is solid it will pass.

If your argument isnt,.... that's the beauty of the amendment process.

No it's not.  Structural hurdles are enormous.  It was hard enough to pass the Civil Rights Act...it would be ridiculous to have to make that into an amendment process.

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #890 on: July 20, 2018, 04:48:24 PM »
I will leave it at this

In programing language a recursive function is one which calls upon itself repeatedly in a program.

So to solve the big problem, it uses the same small problem over and over as the solution to an increasingly complex solution

Our country, in a nutshell, is a recursive function

Yes there were founding fathers who were racists, yes we committed genocide, but ultimately we saw the flaws in our sins and tried to fix them again and again and again.  throughout the ages.  doesn't mean we have to gloss over the tragedies of the past.  It also doesnt mean we have to be beholden to a romantic vision of America that was flawed to begin with. 

This is how this country works -- we find flaws and we fix it .  that is the essence of liberalism.  in that sense liberalism is not equal to socialism.  what is happening right now is the function of rolling back progress in the name of some romantic ideal of the past which never was.  Another flaw which applies uniquely to old people -- selective recall of the past. 

Europe is way behind in all this and have always played catchup.  Same for other developing countries. 

People dont realize this but this is the last lurch towards the right before our country overcomes these problems yet again and moves forward.  What happened in California in the 90s when the state moved right before it moved left, is very instructive.

Agree.  I was having some discussions with some Europeans about migrants/refugees and they were adamant that refugees were evil and should be purged from the countries.  I just said to them that they are being short-sighted and depriving themselves of a substantial force to better their country.  United States was build by immigrants and one of the most diverse countries in the world...that is why is it so strong. 

Offline eyephone

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #891 on: July 20, 2018, 04:55:38 PM »
GOP Senators bow to White House on Chinese Telecom Firm ZTE, according to the New York Times


Offline Perspective

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #892 on: July 20, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »
If your argument is solid it will pass.

If your argument isnt,.... that's the beauty of the amendment process.

No it's not.  Structural hurdles are enormous.  It was hard enough to pass the Civil Rights Act...it would be ridiculous to have to make that into an amendment process.

I'd bet, well over a majority of 2018 Republicans would support eliminating the Civil Rights Act. God bless the devoutly religious and racist South!

Offline fortune11

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #893 on: July 20, 2018, 06:20:30 PM »
Every now and then I think about the fact that just six years ago "binders full of women" and "you didn't build that” were what passed for serious controversies ...

Offline Kings

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #894 on: July 21, 2018, 08:26:47 AM »
I will leave it at this

In programing language a recursive function is one which calls upon itself repeatedly in a program.

So to solve the big problem, it uses the same small problem over and over as the solution to an increasingly complex solution

Our country, in a nutshell, is a recursive function

Yes there were founding fathers who were racists, yes we committed genocide, but ultimately we saw the flaws in our sins and tried to fix them again and again and again.  throughout the ages.  doesn't mean we have to gloss over the tragedies of the past.  It also doesnt mean we have to be beholden to a romantic vision of America that was flawed to begin with. 

This is how this country works -- we find flaws and we fix it .  that is the essence of liberalism.  in that sense liberalism is not equal to socialism.  what is happening right now is the function of rolling back progress in the name of some romantic ideal of the past which never was.  Another flaw which applies uniquely to old people -- selective recall of the past. 

Europe is way behind in all this and have always played catchup.  Same for other developing countries. 

People dont realize this but this is the last lurch towards the right before our country overcomes these problems yet again and moves forward.  What happened in California in the 90s when the state moved right before it moved left, is very instructive.

Agree.  I was having some discussions with some Europeans about migrants/refugees and they were adamant that refugees were evil and should be purged from the countries.  I just said to them that they are being short-sighted and depriving themselves of a substantial force to better their country.  United States was build by immigrants and one of the most diverse countries in the world...that is why is it so strong.

america was built by immigrants to the super power that it is today.  i think we can all agree on that.  now that we are a super power, who adds more marginal benefit - an engineer from china or a poor refugee with no marketable skills from central/south america?  one will likely be on welfare for many years to come and the other will be a net positive on our financial system from day 1.  we're at a point where we can't just open our doors to anyone and everyone that comes to our border while we have a line out the door already for people waiting sometimes as much as 10 years and paying their dues to come here legally.  the gravy train ends with trump.

Offline eyephone

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #895 on: July 21, 2018, 09:05:29 AM »
So all Democrats are on welfare? Aren’t there Trump supporters on welfare? I’m better than you argument doesn’t work anymore.

Do you remember the debate to completely end Obamacare. How many GOP congressman got calls from their constituents to keep Obamacare?


Offline Compressed-Village

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #896 on: July 21, 2018, 11:42:42 AM »
So all Democrats are on welfare? Aren’t there Trump supporters on welfare? I’m better than you argument doesn’t work anymore.

Do you remember the debate to completely end Obamacare. How many GOP congressman got calls from their constituents to keep Obamacare?

Yup, repeal and replace Obamacare was his biggly campaign. Where is it now? Then he scolded FED chair-woman for helping Obama and keep interest rate low to help the democrats. Now he said FED is pushing rate too high and hurt the US economy. What The F*****is all I have to say about Trump and his presidency. Now that the tape recording discussion about the prostitution pay off got recorded. I wonder how the hell they will spins this.

Offline Loco_local

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #897 on: July 21, 2018, 12:42:40 PM »
Quote
an engineer from china or a poor refugee with no marketable skills from central/south america?  on
That would depend if the engineer from China is stealing company secrets to send back to China or if the poor refugee instills the value of education and hard work ethic on his children.

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Offline Ready2Downsize

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #898 on: July 21, 2018, 03:09:59 PM »
So all Democrats are on welfare? Aren’t there Trump supporters on welfare? I’m better than you argument doesn’t work anymore.

Do you remember the debate to completely end Obamacare. How many GOP congressman got calls from their constituents to keep Obamacare?

Yup, repeal and replace Obamacare was his biggly campaign. Where is it now? Then he scolded FED chair-woman for helping Obama and keep interest rate low to help the democrats. Now he said FED is pushing rate too high and hurt the US economy. What The F*****is all I have to say about Trump and his presidency. Now that the tape recording discussion about the prostitution pay off got recorded. I wonder how the hell they will spins this.


No one will be REQUIRED to have it any more, therefore it has ended for anyone who doesn't want it.

Those on med-I-cal will always get free care, Obama care or not. Now those of us who choose to NOT have crappy insurance that covers little unless you have an exhorbitant oop and doctors you don't want to see (NEVER EVER got the you can see the same doctors...…….. that was an out and out lie from the get go) won't have to have it.

It's so poor at reimbursement, my doctors don't even accept it. AND I can go cash pay and pay LESS than the outrageous copays that Obama care was requiring ON TOP of my ridiculous premiums. My doctors ALL told me they pay WORSE than medicare and lots of doctors don't accept that because it pays so poorly.

AND I can buy my rx's WITHOUT ANY insurance AT ALL for LESS than the copays I was paying, on top of the premiums.

I should have gone self pay years ago..... buy wait...…….. before Obamacare I had good insurance, lower (MUCH) premiums and lower (MUCH) copays and lower (MUCH) meds.

Cheaper for me to pay the penalty, AND the self pay SPECIALIST visits (6+ per year for me and 1 or two for my hubby) AND meds AND labs and now I won't have to pay the penalty.

SO HAPPY I will not be required to pay for that bloated cover nothing expensive ridiculous program thanks to Trump ending the requirement.

And why can I do that? Because the doctors have to pay so much to bill and collect it's cheaper to just get the cash up front and forget dealing with insurance.

And it was SOOOOOOOOOOOO expensive any way that most people could get an exclusion for being too expensive!


« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 03:17:23 PM by Ready2Downsize »

Offline Compressed-Village

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #899 on: July 21, 2018, 03:42:23 PM »
So now that the young and the healthy abandon the mandatory coverage, cost will be much better. Ok, I see how this will help.

 

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