Author Topic: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.  (Read 5160 times)

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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2018, 08:30:52 AM »
Ok, so you agree that It’s a bad deal for taxpayers . So no point hating Alexandra occasio Cortez for it .

Every year, American cities and states spend up to $90 billion in tax breaks and cash grants to urge companies to move among states. That’s more than the federal government spends on housing, education, or infrastructure.

This farce should stop

I repeat what I Have said several times before — our system is a combination of  socialism for the very rich and large corporates combined with  rugged individualism for the middle class and small guys, many of whom end up blaming immigrants and minorities for their woes  .  I have some experience here as many of those large corporations are my consulting clients.

Don’t hate the left for pointing out this hypocrisy . The left has many flaws otherwise but pointing out corporate welfare is not one of them

Agreed.  That is why I am not a libertarian.  Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society.   Regarding your point above as to Amazon and Georgia, there is no real incentive for Amazon to go there.  Amazon want to attract talent here and abroad...going to DC and NYC will do that...Atlanta will not.  Amazon is not in the business of social engineering.

Offline eyephone

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2018, 08:38:33 AM »
Ok, so you agree that It’s a bad deal for taxpayers . So no point hating Alexandra occasio Cortez for it .

Every year, American cities and states spend up to $90 billion in tax breaks and cash grants to urge companies to move among states. That’s more than the federal government spends on housing, education, or infrastructure.

This farce should stop

I repeat what I Have said several times before — our system is a combination of  socialism for the very rich and large corporates combined with  rugged individualism for the middle class and small guys, many of whom end up blaming immigrants and minorities for their woes  .  I have some experience here as many of those large corporations are my consulting clients.

Don’t hate the left for pointing out this hypocrisy . The left has many flaws otherwise but pointing out corporate welfare is not one of them

Agreed.  That is why I am not a libertarian.  Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society.   Regarding your point above as to Amazon and Georgia, there is no real incentive for Amazon to go there.  Amazon want to attract talent here and abroad...going to DC and NYC will do that...Atlanta will not.  Amazon is not in the business of social engineering.

The unspoken truth. Would the Amazon employees be accepted in the GA community? (people might get nervous with the potential changing demographics with the diverse workforce of Amazon. I’m using the nervous word that came from Panda that lives in Georgia. He knows Georgia more than Californians since he lives there.)


« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 08:49:28 AM by eyephone »

Offline fortune11

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2018, 08:44:56 AM »
Georgia is not Mississippi or Oklahoma or South Carolina

The Atlanta metro area and its suburbs Have decent talent pool, but different culturally than amazon hq in Seattle

So it comes down to basically being comfortable with whoever fits your existing corporate culture .

Fine with that , but then you (amazon) are no better Than those golf playing older white executives who keep minorities from top positions in the firm because of “lack of fit”  which is just a code for cultural discrimination.

All  this is conjecture on my part - obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes at amazon for this decision

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2018, 08:53:44 AM »
Georgia is not Mississippi or Oklahoma or South Carolina

The Atlanta metro area and its suburbs Have decent talent pool, but different culturally than amazon hq in Seattle

So it comes down to basically being comfortable with whoever fits your existing corporate culture .

Fine with that , but then you (amazon) are no better Than those golf playing older white executives who keep minorities from top positions in the firm because of “lack of fit”  which is just a code for cultural discrimination.

All  this is conjecture on my part - obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes at amazon for this decision

I know people in Atlanta and in some way it is not the Deep South but in some ways it is very much the Deep South.  Discomfort flows both ways.   

If I was a minority with job options, watching what is happening in the Georgia elections would make me push Atlanta way down on the list.  Oh and the stupid tomahawk chants.

California is unbelievably diverse and accepting (I also include cities like Seattle, Portland, NYC, and a few others).  Most other cities have a distinct minority...Houston has a big Vietnamese population, Atlanta has a big Korean population, Detroit/Michigan has a big Arab/Muslim community but seldomly do you have the wide ranging group of minorities as you do in LA or SF.  It makes a big difference culturally to even someone like me who is 1.5 generation. 

Amazon is no better than any other corporation.  They underpay their workers and look out for their SHs first and foremost. 

Offline WTTCHMN

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta was a big joke
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2018, 09:28:59 AM »
Indeed, in selecting New York and Virginia for its new locations, Amazon turned down seemingly richer offers just next door. Maryland and New Jersey each offered multibillion-dollar incentive packages that dwarfed the ones Amazon accepted.

“An additional $7.5 billion in subsidies wasn’t enough to get Amazon to move across the river,” said Michael Farren, an economist at the Mercatus Center, a libertarian think tank, referring to the difference between Maryland’s offer of $8.5 billion and Virginia’s of less than $1 billion. “That just says that subsidies were never what mattered in the first place.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/business/economy/amazon-hq2-va-long-island-city-incentives.html

p.s.  I changed the name of this idiotic thread

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Offline fortune11

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2018, 10:13:46 AM »
One thing we can agree on — no more empty  “virtue signaling “ from amazon or bezos ... They got the benefit of doubt for way too long .  Bernie Sanders was really onto something despite all his other flaws .

This company is a classic case of using public goods (and taxpayer funded infrastructure) to enhance its own bottom line and then hollowing out that same base from within . Newt Gingrich couldn’t have designed it any better


Offline eyephone

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2018, 10:25:39 AM »
Georgia is not Mississippi or Oklahoma or South Carolina

The Atlanta metro area and its suburbs Have decent talent pool, but different culturally than amazon hq in Seattle

So it comes down to basically being comfortable with whoever fits your existing corporate culture .

Fine with that , but then you (amazon) are no better Than those golf playing older white executives who keep minorities from top positions in the firm because of “lack of fit”  which is just a code for cultural discrimination.

All  this is conjecture on my part - obviously I have no idea what went on behind the scenes at amazon for this decision

I know people in Atlanta and in some way it is not the Deep South but in some ways it is very much the Deep South.  Discomfort flows both ways.   

If I was a minority with job options, watching what is happening in the Georgia elections would make me push Atlanta way down on the list.  Oh and the stupid tomahawk chants.

California is unbelievably diverse and accepting (I also include cities like Seattle, Portland, NYC, and a few others).  Most other cities have a distinct minority...Houston has a big Vietnamese population, Atlanta has a big Korean population, Detroit/Michigan has a big Arab/Muslim community but seldomly do you have the wide ranging group of minorities as you do in LA or SF.  It makes a big difference culturally to even someone like me who is 1.5 generation. 

Amazon is no better than any other corporation.  They underpay their workers and look out for their SHs first and foremost.

They can always put a distribution center in a low wage state. It’s a whole new ballgame when you are talking about relocating a corporate office. Corporate office may be secured, but how about when they leave work.
You don’t want your employee who is an engineer or IT guru to get harassed going to the super market.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2018, 11:07:04 AM »
I have a friend who works in tech in Georgia.

Isn't there a large tech sector there?

It's just so hot down there... esp compared to Seattle. :)
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Offline zubs

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2018, 11:07:34 AM »
I hear foxconn is having trouble attracting talent to their new factory in WI.  Even FOXconn's Chinese engineers don't wanna move there.

Offline nosuchreality

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2018, 12:47:40 PM »


So what words are appropriate to describe today s right wing? 

Australia has the right idea.


Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2018, 02:13:03 PM »
Fortune 11 - AO-C deserves every ounce of criticism she has been able to heap upon herself. Her many complaints were correct on just one thing: - Corporate Welfare, and yet incorrect on so, so many others:

1) Crumbling Subways  (not an Amazon problem, but a pre-existing condition)
2) "Community investment" (see point 1)
3) "Public housing" (see point 1)
4) "Good Healthcare" (Amazon provides heathcare to employees)
5) "Living Wages" (Hmm did NYC roll over for minimum wage jobs? Likely answer: No)
6) "Affordable Rent" (the only way to fix rent costs is if Bezos is a Time Lord)
7) "Cost of Living" (see point 1)
8 ) "Their Fair Share" (a squishy, feel good slogan without a basis in reality)

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2018/11/13/ocasio-cortez-lashes-out-at-amazons-plan-to-locate-hq2-in-queens-693668

AO-C doesn't realize that a tax break of X can lead to tax receipt increase 2x of what the breaks are - restaurant receipts, ancillary hiring, property tax benefits, payroll taxes, on and on and on. None of these things are financed by Empire State Development, but by the local governments and the Feds who should have been working on solutions years and years ago.

Just as it's been made clear AO-C was lying about her ability to afford a DC apartment, at some point in time, we'll find out her Amazon Prime account is paid up through 2020.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-claims-of-not-being-to-afford-dc-apartment-crumbles-under-scrutiny


If she was such a clear thinker on issues like this, perhaps she could renounce Amazon and work on a "shop locally" campaign. Alas, it's easier to virtue signal than to get meaningful reform done. That kind of heavy lifting seems too much for this newly minted Congressperson.

 In full disclosure, I do not have an active Amazon account nor do I invest in Amazon.

My .02c
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 04:28:34 PM by Soylent Green Is People »

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Offline eyephone

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2018, 08:01:53 AM »
Spam

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2018, 08:03:56 AM »
Agreed.  That is why I am not a libertarian.  Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society.   

That's not totally true.

Businesses won't succeed unless they are providing a product/service that society wants or improves society.

While many can argue that screen time is bad, it has also added quite a bit of convenience to everyone's lives. As with all things there are upsides and downsides but I think the advances in personal technology are overall an improvement in society.

Before Amazon Prime, I rarely shopped there, now it's probably over 50% of our purchases which helps small businesses, jobs etc.

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Offline fortune11

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2018, 08:22:40 AM »
Agreed.  That is why I am not a libertarian.  Corporations are legally obligated to look out for their own interests (and the interests of their SHs) not society.   

That's not totally true.

Businesses won't succeed unless they are providing a product/service that society wants or improves society.

While many can argue that screen time is bad, it has also added quite a bit of convenience to everyone's lives. As with all things there are upsides and downsides but I think the advances in personal technology are overall an improvement in society.

Before Amazon Prime, I rarely shopped there, now it's probably over 50% of our purchases which helps small businesses, jobs etc.

Productivity growth is what matters .

It was super high in the 90s and we reaped the rewards of a newly computerizing economy

Now it is low and nearly dead for last decade and a half . Changes since then are more incremental . One can argue social media distractions are actually NPV negative to the society as a whole — even if there are some social justice benefits like exposing police brutality etc

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: Looks like Amazon's 2nd headquarter in Atlanta is starting to become REAL.
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2018, 09:40:21 AM »
@fortune11:

I agree, while social media can be a loss of productivity, it also gives a voice to those previously unheard. But at the same time, it also allows voices who should not be heard to have more access (bullying, racism, etc).

But I still feel the negatives are worth the benefits. If businesses aren't good for society, why would people want Amazon to put HQ2 near them?
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