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Do you believe in God?

Yes, I am Christian
20 (46.5%)
Yes, I am a non-Christian
3 (7%)
Yes, but I am non-religious
2 (4.7%)
No, but I believe in a higher power
7 (16.3%)
No, not at all
11 (25.6%)

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Author Topic: God?  (Read 54444 times)

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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #540 on: May 07, 2020, 02:18:23 PM »
Oh man StarmanMBA is back!!

Make sure you press that THANK YOU button.

Who's back next? Finally YellowFever?

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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #541 on: July 02, 2020, 11:12:58 AM »
Seems like some folks here have been irritated by me preaching the truth.

The truth is you are a sinner highway to hell and you need a Savior. That Savior is Jesus Christ the Son of God. He paid for your sins by dying on the cross and rose again from the dead so that anyone who believes might not end up in hell but forever with God in eternity. This is nothing about getting rich or even about modern day healing miracles many fake Christians are putting in such performances today.

This is the message I've been posting here over and over with long explanations with Biblical quotes and so on. Now, this is not a surprise that much hatred is coming back at whoever preaches this gospel. Jesus Himself was insulted, beaten and killed for this message also (even though He conquered all by rising again from the dead). No one will like the sound of going hell and in need of someone to cure. Only the ones who realizes that he/she is sick and in need of help will listen. If you're full of yourself and own pride, the message is too hard for your hardened heart.

I pray many here will some day realize this is the real love to be pointed out of your need to be saved and hopefully many of you will believe Jesus one day in a right way, not in a way that this modern day society has made of what Christian faith has become - a fake. Abide in His Word and don't fall into temptation of sweet sounding wrong doctrines, my friends.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #542 on: July 06, 2020, 11:16:32 AM »
So in addition to our regular service, I like to check out other services and Newsong Church has been getting my attention because their lead pastor seems to have a similar outlook to Christianity and God as I do.

As much as we have to be Biblical, he talks about love being the overriding concept in how we relate to everyone. This includes non-Christians (which is how I feel). different races and LGBT+.

If you're interested, check out his sermon last Sunday which covers this:


(Mety can skip forward to 38:27 where the sermon starts since he doesn't like all the worship singing :) )
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #543 on: July 06, 2020, 02:38:44 PM »
I used to like P. Dave from Newsong a lot, but since I started to strive to know God more from what the actual Holy Bible says rather than what someone else says, I started to find things I disagree with him more and more. I find many if not the most biblical references he used in this video are wrong, but I'll only call out the big picture in general.

What P. Dave says sounds correct on a superficial level. What he needs to add is REAL LOVE. Jesus hung out with all those sinners, but He always commended for repentance and to sin no more. Many churches today along with P. Dave's message here call out those hypocrites who refuse to accept other ethnicities and people like homosexuals. I think calling out those hypocrites is the right direction. However while they encourage to accept those different people to the church, what they're missing is to call out to repent of their sins. Homosexuality is sin. Stealing is sin. Divorce is sin. But guess what? We're all sinners. That's why we need Jesus to heal us, transform us, change us so that we can live a life that's more like what God has originally intended for us. And as a result, we share the same gospel to others. That's Christian life.

Newsong and many popular churches call out only the half of sins while the other half is more crucial in terms of spiritual meaning. While this type of strategy might work on some people with different phases of their lives and so on, this kind of thing can be done through motivational speakers and psychiatrists. Christian pastors are to proclaim THE GOSPEL.

BTW IHO, the same concept applies for the music. While I think this kind of motivational speaking and great sounding modern music are all great and can be used in churches (as a part of it), if they're missing the main GOSPEL message which is calling out sins and to repent in the Name of Jesus, then those nice things become only the attraction to bring more people on a superficial level, not necessarily to save souls.

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Re: God?
« Reply #544 on: July 06, 2020, 03:56:19 PM »
I used to like P. Dave from Newsong a lot, but since I started to strive to know God more from what the actual Holy Bible says rather than what someone else says, I started to find things I disagree with him more and more. I find many if not the most biblical references he used in this video are wrong, but I'll only call out the big picture in general.

What P. Dave says sounds correct on a superficial level. What he needs to add is REAL LOVE. Jesus hung out with all those sinners, but He always commended for repentance and to sin no more. Many churches today along with P. Dave's message here call out those hypocrites who refuse to accept other ethnicities and people like homosexuals. I think calling out those hypocrites is the right direction. However while they encourage to accept those different people to the church, what they're missing is to call out to repent of their sins. Homosexuality is sin. Stealing is sin. Divorce is sin. But guess what? We're all sinners. That's why we need Jesus to heal us, transform us, change us so that we can live a life that's more like what God has originally intended for us. And as a result, we share the same gospel to others. That's Christian life.

Newsong and many popular churches call out only the half of sins while the other half is more crucial in terms of spiritual meaning. While this type of strategy might work on some people with different phases of their lives and so on, this kind of thing can be done through motivational speakers and psychiatrists. Christian pastors are to proclaim THE GOSPEL.

I understand that's your perception of it... but that's not how I see it. Everyone is different and I believe the beholder can always skew the message to what fits their agenda... including what is read from the Bible. I'm not looking at the details of his message, just the general message in using love, just like you mentioned with Jesus.

Just because he doesn't talk specifically about repenting, doesn't mean it's not something he does.

Quote
BTW IHO, the same concept applies for the music. While I think this kind of motivational speaking and great sounding modern music are all great and can be used in churches (as a part of it), if they're missing the main GOSPEL message which is calling out sins and to repent in the Name of Jesus, then those nice things become only the attraction to bring more people on a superficial level, not necessarily to save souls.

We talked about this before, everyone worships in their own way... whether it be by music, a band, a choir, a solo singer or no singing at all... there is no "right" way... what you think is superficial, many others may enjoy.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #545 on: July 06, 2020, 04:07:34 PM »
I used to like P. Dave from Newsong a lot, but since I started to strive to know God more from what the actual Holy Bible says rather than what someone else says, I started to find things I disagree with him more and more. I find many if not the most biblical references he used in this video are wrong, but I'll only call out the big picture in general.

What P. Dave says sounds correct on a superficial level. What he needs to add is REAL LOVE. Jesus hung out with all those sinners, but He always commended for repentance and to sin no more. Many churches today along with P. Dave's message here call out those hypocrites who refuse to accept other ethnicities and people like homosexuals. I think calling out those hypocrites is the right direction. However while they encourage to accept those different people to the church, what they're missing is to call out to repent of their sins. Homosexuality is sin. Stealing is sin. Divorce is sin. But guess what? We're all sinners. That's why we need Jesus to heal us, transform us, change us so that we can live a life that's more like what God has originally intended for us. And as a result, we share the same gospel to others. That's Christian life.

Newsong and many popular churches call out only the half of sins while the other half is more crucial in terms of spiritual meaning. While this type of strategy might work on some people with different phases of their lives and so on, this kind of thing can be done through motivational speakers and psychiatrists. Christian pastors are to proclaim THE GOSPEL.

I understand that's your perception of it... but that's not how I see it. Everyone is different and I believe the beholder can always skew the message to what fits their agenda... including what is read from the Bible. I'm not looking at the details of his message, just the general message in using love, just like you mentioned with Jesus.

Just because he doesn't talk specifically about repenting, doesn't mean it's not something he does.

Quote
BTW IHO, the same concept applies for the music. While I think this kind of motivational speaking and great sounding modern music are all great and can be used in churches (as a part of it), if they're missing the main GOSPEL message which is calling out sins and to repent in the Name of Jesus, then those nice things become only the attraction to bring more people on a superficial level, not necessarily to save souls.

We talked about this before, everyone worships in their own way... whether it be by music, a band, a choir, a solo singer or no singing at all... there is no "right" way... what you think is superficial, many others may enjoy.

Isn't that what I'm saying though? I think his message can be something anyone can enjoy. Good sounding band or orchestral music can be also enjoyable. But is Christian message supposed to be something anyone can enjoy?

I don't think Christian message is supposed to be something anyone can enjoy. It's actually supposed to bother you. It's pointing out your core issues. It breaks bones and hearts of people who hear. That is the way people responded when Jesus and later His Apostles talked about repentance and how hard (or actually impossible) it is for you to enter the Kingdom of God.

I agree that there is no "right way." A quiet holy sounding hymn singer can be super hypocritical in his personal life. A loud rock band guitarist from a modern worship team can be someone who's closer to God than others. I'm not talking about the forms or styles. I'm talking about the content of the message or songs.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #546 on: July 06, 2020, 04:29:28 PM »
It's all relative... what may be enjoyable to some could be bothersome to others.

That's why you should focus on doing it from the approach of loving everyone... just like Jesus.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #547 on: July 06, 2020, 05:00:25 PM »
It's all relative... what may be enjoyable to some could be bothersome to others.

That's why you should focus on doing it from the approach of loving everyone... just like Jesus.

I believe the message of the gospel is supposed to be bothersome when you first hear it at least. Think about it. It is a message to you, a sinner, that the Son of God died on your behalf. Your sin had to be taken care of by someone who could overcome it.

First of all, that should make you feel uncomfortable. Who am I that I deserve such love that the Son of God had to die for my sins?

Second, that should get you out of your sinful life. Sinful routines, thoughts, life styles, etc. You need to work on getting YOU out of the picture in your life but have that Son of God in that place instead. That's the whole message of loving the neighbor as yourself.

Both of those first and second points, we can't do on our own. We can't "perform" those. Only God can do through giving us the Holy Spirit if we're willing to accept. THEN that bothersome message becomes a joyful message. THEN we find in our lives, Jesus doing all those "good" things reflecting God's image. It's not a matter of Jesus hung out with sinners. It's a matter of my life from hell to Heaven. Jesus' resurrection is the confirmation of that since He didn't stay just dead.

What I find in those messages like P.Dave is giving is skipping this whole thing of "Who in the world am I that I deserve such HUGE love from God?" That's the real love we gotta talk about. Focus on doing it from the approach of love, you say? That whole dying on your behalf and rising from the dead are the REAL LOVE everyone has to hear. Just giving a Jesus who can hang out with you is not really a full picture of the message and that real part of the message should NOT be skipped IMHO.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #548 on: July 06, 2020, 05:06:41 PM »
That's your take... not mine.

Although I agree with some of what you said... I don't agree that message of the gospel should be bothersome.

People tend to turn off what bothers them and then what does that accomplish?

When I was in college, there were many bothersome "Christians" telling me I'm a sinner and I need to go to their meetings to fix my life... I don't think that's an effective method... in my opinion.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #549 on: July 06, 2020, 05:27:09 PM »
That's your take... not mine.

Although I agree with some of what you said... I don't agree that message of the gospel should be bothersome.

People tend to turn off what bothers them and then what does that accomplish?

When I was in college, there were many bothersome "Christians" telling me I'm a sinner and I need to go to their meetings to fix my life... I don't think that's an effective method... in my opinion.

What those bothersome Christians in your college were doing wrong was they they were forcing you to come to their meetings to fix your life. That is NOT biblical. You don't come to the meetings to get fixed. They should have simply shared the gospel (from biblical view, not their own) and let God do the rest (as P. Dave was saying in that video).

I believe many do get turned off by those people's wrong approaches of forcing you have to DO something. You have to COME to the meetings. You have to GIVE money to the church. You have to ACCEPT those different people. None of these are biblical and Apostle Paul and John warned of those wrong doings while simply said Jesus died for your sins and rose again concurring death.

The message of the gospel is bothersome because it speaks of love. The love that's not native in your life. It is bothersome, but it becomes joyful like I said in the previous post. You may have a different view, but that's the Christian belief I have with God.

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Re: God?
« Reply #550 on: July 07, 2020, 02:19:23 PM »
@IHO,

If someone like me or qwerty says nothing about the danger of C-19 and gives only positive things to others, wouldn't that worry you? Isn't that what you're arguing with qwerty and me time to time for that issue? It's exactly the same thing. If we keep on teaching just the positive things from the standard of this society so that we can get more people to come to church while speaking nothing of the sin and death and why you need real love from God to take care of that, then isn't that pretty hypocritical? Missing the whole danger of C-19 is giving you so much passion to fight back, but missing the whole danger of the real gospel message is not too worrisome for you?

I'll be posting about love here. What real love is from the biblical point of view, in God's point of view rather than what this world says about it. But I just thought it's kind of related in terms of how we could be focusing only on certain perspectives for things like C-19 and even gospel.

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Re: God?
« Reply #551 on: July 07, 2020, 03:09:30 PM »
You have to look at it from the goal, not from the method.

If my goal is to keep everyone safe from Covid, I will emphasize what is not safe, what people are not doing, infections rising, hospitals getting full, the data, the science, the experts, etc. Not "if you die, you die" and wearing a mask should be an individual decision.

So the same thing with Christianity and God, if the goal is to share the love of God, then I will focus on being accepting and forgiving... not that everyone is a sinner and should be bothered by Jesus. I've never said to ignore the sin/death part... but that's not the lead-in to me.

It may be to you, and that's you... but that's not my point of view.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #552 on: July 07, 2020, 04:12:06 PM »
You have to look at it from the goal, not from the method.

If my goal is to keep everyone safe from Covid, I will emphasize what is not safe, what people are not doing, infections rising, hospitals getting full, the data, the science, the experts, etc. Not "if you die, you die" and wearing a mask should be an individual decision.

So the same thing with Christianity and God, if the goal is to share the love of God, then I will focus on being accepting and forgiving... not that everyone is a sinner and should be bothered by Jesus. I've never said to ignore the sin/death part... but that's not the lead-in to me.

It may be to you, and that's you... but that's not my point of view.

We are all different and it's natural to have different approaches when sharing the good news. I try to do your approach time to time as well.

I believe pastors especially from those well known ones carry the responsibility to share the whole gospel though. When Larry King asked Joel Osteen if Jesus was the only way to salvation from His show on CNN, he failed to address this issue clearly. Many followed the trend and we see so many pastors just not covering this issue at all these days.

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Re: God?
« Reply #553 on: July 07, 2020, 04:26:15 PM »
I'm really not familiar with "well-known" pastors nor that Larry King moment. What did Joel say and what should he have said?
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #554 on: July 07, 2020, 04:39:10 PM »
I'm really not familiar with "well-known" pastors nor that Larry King moment. What did Joel say and what should he have said?


Joel: I don't know. You know? I mean I don't know.
Larry: So what about those who don't believe in Jesus?
Joel: Well, I don't know. Let God be the judge. I don't know.


What should he have said?

Joel: Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation and there is no other way. That's what the Bible says.
Larry: So what about those who don't believe in Jesus?
Joel: I'll have this opportunity to share the gospel. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. That Son is Jesus Christ.

Something as simple as that would have been much more effective than "Well, I don't know." His church though is still the biggest in America so I guess his style is something that many people can enjoy I guess.

 

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