Poll

Do you believe in God?

Yes, I am Christian
18 (45%)
Yes, I am a non-Christian
3 (7.5%)
Yes, but I am non-religious
2 (5%)
No, but I believe in a higher power
6 (15%)
No, not at all
11 (27.5%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: God?  (Read 30587 times)

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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #285 on: June 25, 2019, 11:38:07 AM »
@Mety

No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.

Is this what are you trying to say?

I want to know what you, as a Christian, would think about money. You can still participate in the discussion even if you're not Christian, but I wanted to hear how other believers are handling this issue. Believe or not it really does come down to serve one or the other of these two - God or money. You might disagree, but if you really really think deeply inside your heart, you end up either wanting to serve God or wanting to serve to have more money. You can't serve both. Greed is a part of that system of loving money, but it's not the only way.

The reason, I think, of wanting to serve money is because of one reason - you don't want to serve God. I might sound like I've overly simplified, but again, if you really really honestly deeply think of your heart, you can see yourself loving money more than God especially living in this modern age.

I'm not saying I'm perfectly handling this issue no problem. I think about MAXROI too. I think about feeding our family with money also. But deep inside my heart, I know it's not really right to have too much of this concerns or worries in my heart. I even think I shouldn't have this worry at all. If I truly believe God will take care of my family and I, I only need to work hard and try to live an honest life. And instead of worrying about money, I should rather read His words, praise of His love, and share of His goodness with others as we fellowship. What comforts me is that I know God will take care of us no matter what and I only need to remain in His love. But as we all fail time to time, I wanted to hear how others are thinking of this matter.


Offline eyephone

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Re: God?
« Reply #286 on: June 25, 2019, 11:46:18 AM »
I think you are stretching it.
However, if a person says they only care about money. I think you have a valid argument.

Use my example selling Tuna or sustainable fish. Is the person who sells Tuna considered a bad person? Would you say that person committed a crime?
I believe most people would say no to both. (Don’t consider the fishing laws. I know some smart person might bring that up. Lol)

At the end that person selling Tuna most likely would have more money.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 12:02:12 PM by eyephone »

Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #287 on: June 25, 2019, 12:22:56 PM »
Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.

Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?


Offline eyephone

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Re: God?
« Reply #288 on: June 25, 2019, 01:08:44 PM »
You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)

Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)

The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.

I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.

A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.

So do you play the lottery? That’s a form of gambling.

Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.

Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 01:46:44 PM by eyephone »

Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #289 on: June 25, 2019, 01:49:21 PM »
You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)

Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)

The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.

I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.

A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.

So do you play the lottery? That’s a form of gambling.

Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.

Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?

So you think it's completely fine for a Christian to think about making money more than God?

Offline eyephone

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Re: God?
« Reply #290 on: June 25, 2019, 01:57:10 PM »
You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)

Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)

The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.

I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.

A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.

So do you play the lottery? That’s a form of gambling.

Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.

Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?

So you think it's completely fine for a Christian to think about making money more than God?

My previous statements:

1. No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.

2. However, if a person says they only care about money. I think you have a valid argument.


Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #291 on: June 25, 2019, 02:11:29 PM »
You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)

Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)

The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.

I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.

A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.

So do you play the lottery? That’s a form of gambling.

Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.

Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?

So you think it's completely fine for a Christian to think about making money more than God?

My previous statements:

1. No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.

2. However, if a person says they only care about money. I think you have a valid argument.

Alright. I guess you made your point.
I also responded to you that greed is a part of the system where you choose to love money more than God. You think that's stretching, but please explain how that is stretching? Remember, I'm not trying to blame anyone or any rich people. The point was to see the motivation and your heart of how you use money which no one can know except God alone (and you, if you're real honest to yourself).
My statements do go in circles since I'm still talking about the same thing over and over but within different areas of our lives.

Added - no,  I don't do lottery nor gambling. lol
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 02:16:39 PM by Mety »

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #292 on: June 25, 2019, 03:33:11 PM »
Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.

To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.

I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.

What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.

That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.

I probably am doing the same thing as you stated mostly in order to walk in faith. However, do we really need to be "rich" to feed our family? Does it really make it easier to serve others when you are "more rich?" Jesus probably had less money than any of us and He still had no problem serving God the Father and others. Okay, He is the Son of God so you might say His case was a little different. Then how about all the Apostles and first believers in Jerusalem? I'm not against money. I think the problem is when you have "love of money" as GH said and also as Jesus said. Wanting to be rich in order to feed family or to serve others doesn't sound like loving money, but isn't this kind of saying we see money as more priority than God in order to share the good news? Isn't that in a way saying we think more money would work more effectively than just straight up sharing Christ?

This is my inner struggle also. That's why I keep asking you guys, but I believe Jesus was commanding us to have priority the other way. I think Jesus was telling us to get to know God more rather than get to know how to make more money even if it means to serve others because once you know God more and more you will most likely share the good news naturally and God will take care of those needs you have. Thoughts?

This goes back to your comment that singing isn't really worshipping God.

That’s why I said “rich” is relative. My definition is being able to provide for my family or making enough so my wife doesn’t have to work.

To me, making money is loving my family. Loving God is using my talents to make that money. I choose to make less because I want to spend more time taking care of my kids. There are so many variables it’s hard to say just let God take care of it. How do you know that God doesn’t want you to make money?

And yes, having money can make you a better disciple because you don’t have to worry about the needs of your family and have the time/resources to devote to others. Sure, you can and should disciple no matter your station but modern day America is different than Israel over 2000 years ago.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #293 on: June 25, 2019, 04:32:53 PM »
Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.

To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.

I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.

What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.

That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.

I probably am doing the same thing as you stated mostly in order to walk in faith. However, do we really need to be "rich" to feed our family? Does it really make it easier to serve others when you are "more rich?" Jesus probably had less money than any of us and He still had no problem serving God the Father and others. Okay, He is the Son of God so you might say His case was a little different. Then how about all the Apostles and first believers in Jerusalem? I'm not against money. I think the problem is when you have "love of money" as GH said and also as Jesus said. Wanting to be rich in order to feed family or to serve others doesn't sound like loving money, but isn't this kind of saying we see money as more priority than God in order to share the good news? Isn't that in a way saying we think more money would work more effectively than just straight up sharing Christ?

This is my inner struggle also. That's why I keep asking you guys, but I believe Jesus was commanding us to have priority the other way. I think Jesus was telling us to get to know God more rather than get to know how to make more money even if it means to serve others because once you know God more and more you will most likely share the good news naturally and God will take care of those needs you have. Thoughts?

This goes back to your comment that singing isn't really worshipping God.

That’s why I said “rich” is relative. My definition is being able to provide for my family or making enough so my wife doesn’t have to work.

To me, making money is loving my family. Loving God is using my talents to make that money. I choose to make less because I want to spend more time taking care of my kids. There are so many variables it’s hard to say just let God take care of it. How do you know that God doesn’t want you to make money?

And yes, having money can make you a better disciple because you don’t have to worry about the needs of your family and have the time/resources to devote to others. Sure, you can and should disciple no matter your station but modern day America is different than Israel over 2000 years ago.

Singing can be a part of worship to God if that wasn't still clear.

Yeah, I guess you're right. We do have responsibility to take care of our family so making money is also responding in a right way to God's calling.

Although we are living about 2000 years after Jesus taught in Israel, I believe the principal stays the same no matter where or when. So in that sense, we are not to worry about what to wear, what to drink, or what to eat as those are pretty much what we do with money. God knows we need those things, so we should rather seek His Kingdom first as He will provide what we need anyways. Isn't that what faith is? What is seeking His Kingdom? I believe that is to know God more. How to know God more? Through reading His words sharing them. If we really read and love His words, we will naturally make money to take care of our family also as those are what His words tell us to do so. Thus knowing Him more correctly would make us a better disciple rather than having more money. Money could help, but that's not the most necessary thing to become an effective disciple IMHO. If we have enough money, I guess the best way to spend it to spend on people who need them. But even if we don't have enough to do so, I believe God can still provide one's needs.

I'm starting to realize as I write these posts. I wasn't really saying don't make money. I was originally trying to say "Are we spending MORE time on thinking about how to make MORE money and fulfilling financial or material needs than at least having any interests in God?" I call myself a Christian, but I often find myself doing that so I'm praying and repenting of that sin. I also wanted to see if any other Christians find themselves doing that. Or how if any, they managed to get out of that trap. I hope it all makes sense.


Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #294 on: June 25, 2019, 06:53:15 PM »
Like the singing/worship, to me it’s the same.

Back in the OT, making money was farming, raising livestock, etc, and God never said not to do that. He encouraged it so we can offer it to Him, the same way today we offer the money we make to churches or others in need.

Again, it’s a human trait we all fail at but I don’t know if i would classify it as a sin. Like you said, love of money is different than wanting to make more money to help your family.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #295 on: June 26, 2019, 12:03:22 PM »
So what is love of money then? How do you define it?

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Re: God?
« Reply #296 on: June 26, 2019, 12:10:10 PM »
First Timothy 6:10 does not say that money is the root of all evil. It says, "For love of money is root of all kinds of evil" It is not about the money, it's about our attitude. God doesn't like it when we worship anything other than him. He's a jealous God, and if our love of money (or family, or career, or hobbies, or 3CWG in Irvine... you fill in the blank gets in the way of our relationship with him, then we have a problem. He doesn't like that.
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Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #297 on: June 26, 2019, 01:44:25 PM »
So what is love of money then? How do you define it?

As Panda said, when you put it above God.

And yes, at times I think all of us do... I see so many pastors who use very expensive MacBooks, why? A cheap Chromebook would work for what they do, it's not like they are graphic artists.

But humans want nice things, and I believe God wants us to have nice things, just as long as that's not the only thing we want.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #298 on: June 26, 2019, 02:13:53 PM »
Sorry for getting too technical, but how do we know if something is getting in the way of our relationship with God?  How do we know if it's being put above God? Is it by thinking of it more than God? Is it by spending more time on it? Is it different for everyone? Can anyone share your own?

IHO says we want nice things and it's ok as long as that's not the only thing we want, but isn't that what Israel was pretty much doing as they served both God and other gods also? God called them out and said of them as an adulterous wife. The Bible I read seems to be saying God wants our whole attention, not divided heart. And it seems to be that money, which tempts us that we can get anything we want, is the very thing that our heart could be led divided mostly.

Am I still stretching? If you think so, please explain instead of just calling it out.


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Re: God?
« Reply #299 on: June 26, 2019, 02:30:35 PM »
Sorry for getting too technical, but how do we know if something is getting in the way of our relationship with God?  How do we know if it's being put above God? Is it by thinking of it more than God? Is it by spending more time on it? Is it different for everyone? Can anyone share your own?

IHO says we want nice things and it's ok as long as that's not the only thing we want, but isn't that what Israel was pretty much doing as they served both God and other gods also? God called them out and said of them as an adulterous wife. The Bible I read seems to be saying God wants our whole attention, not divided heart. And it seems to be that money, which tempts us that we can get anything we want, is the very thing that our heart could be led divided mostly.

Am I still stretching? If you think so, please explain instead of just calling it out.

My thought on this is where the Holy Spirit comes in --- He will guide and give you discernment to know the answer.  The closer you are to God, the more you know God (through His word, through fellowship based on other brother's experience etc), the clearer the answer will be -- 

An analogy (i remembered from some message before -- probably a bad one but will throw out nevertheless) -- It's like your relationship to your earthly father -- If you are very close to your father and really know him inside out, you can probably easily discern if he approves or not on what you are doing without a word from him (or maybe from just little hint or reaction or even none at all).   But if you not very close -- it will be very hard to discern his opinion or reactions even if its staring right in your face --- I guess this is the same thing with our heavenly father -- the closer you are to Him, the more you will know the answer to your question

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