Poll

Do you believe in God?

Yes, I am Christian
21 (47.7%)
Yes, I am a non-Christian
3 (6.8%)
Yes, but I am non-religious
2 (4.5%)
No, but I believe in a higher power
7 (15.9%)
No, not at all
11 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: God?  (Read 65779 times)

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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #795 on: October 13, 2020, 09:08:21 PM »
Still waiting for Mety's fact check on Grace church.

Yeah, I can't find any news about a single report. I'm 100% positive that if there was one case of COVID, the media will be all over it as they're been a target for many mainstream medias for a long time. Again, if you know if there's been a case there, let us know. All I see is they keep having more and more people each week. I heard they reached like 8000-9000 last week. I don't think more and more people would come each week if there was someone with COVID there, wouldn't you think?

Isn’t this something you would say?

If someone at Grace got Covid, because of the scrutiny, do you think they would report it?

The odds are someone has it... you can’t beat science because God is science.

So you think they would lie and not report? If you think that way, you must think they’re not a real church. That’s where you and I have different opinions or even beliefs.

No. I think they are human with all the faults that come with it.

Quote
You seem to firmly believe the science proves they must have COVID there.

It's just numbers. Let's say the infection rate of Covid is only 1%, that's still at least 70 people who would be infected. Name one state in the US that did not have any Covid cases. The point is, of those 7,000, they come in contact with exponentially more people, so it's impossible for none of them to be infected. That's like saying none of them lie.

Quote
You say God is science, but I again disagree. God is ABOVE science. God created science. He controls it. Now please don’t say I don’t believe in science. You know that’s being extreme one way or another.
Now you are just using semantics.

You know what I mean. To say that you don't think any one of those 7,000 got Covid really means you are arguing against science. And if God created science, is above it and controls it... than you are arguing against him. Just like many others... including members of Grace Church.

But that's okay... everyone is a sinner.

All of your arguments are correct only if the case study of COVID-19 is as exactly as you believe it to be. In other words, you have your own belief of COVID which could be what the majority believe, but how can you be 100% sure of that belief? Even the scientists can’t fully grasp this new virus. Are you better than the scientists?

You know what you should be 100% sure especially if you call yourself a Christian? That God’s will is you should not be afraid of COVID. That God will protect you even in the midst of possible harmful situations if you are loving and obeying Him. That God controls everything even the nature and science to lead His people into His good will. All of these examples are written in the Bible all over as you know and might believe and yet you’re putting God in a box of your own scientific belief?

People at Grace Church started to come to hear the Word of God after weeks of the lockdown order. They were not commanded by the pastor or anyone but just out of hunger for God’s Words and to meet in person with other believers, they started to come week by week and now they’re over 7000. I don’t believe that’s being ignorant of the safety protocols. I know and believe they want to love and obey God. I mean those protesters and Lakers fans are gathering without masks and social distancing with so much passion and yet no one calls them out to be ignoring the science. Why call out such hungry Christians though? Those genuine ones who are not afraid of the deadliest diseases in the world seem to be more Christian than someone who tries to follow the science even the scientists can’t fully present the study of. BTW, speaking of the science, the death rate in California out of COVID is less than 0.1% (0.04% to be more accurate) and the majority of them are people with multiple pre conditions. 

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #796 on: October 13, 2020, 09:56:26 PM »
Uh... the fans/rioters are also not being safe. I've said that multiple times. Please don't try to change the narrative to support your position.

Believing God will protect you from a virus is a terrible stance. See IC's previous post about the people who did not want to be rescued during a flood.

If that's what you believe, why did you stay at home? Why use safe measures?

You are just one giant contradiction.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #797 on: October 13, 2020, 10:54:03 PM »
Uh... the fans/rioters are also not being safe. I've said that multiple times. Please don't try to change the narrative to support your position.

Believing God will protect you from a virus is a terrible stance. See IC's previous post about the people who did not want to be rescued during a flood.

If that's what you believe, why did you stay at home? Why use safe measures?

You are just one giant contradiction.

You believe Covid is a BMW. eyephone might think a Ferrari. I think Covid is like a Camry. These are the comparisons with the price tags on each vehicle more expensive ones being more severe. That’s where the main difference is in this and many other conversations. I will say it again just to back my position. Covid death rate in California is 0.04% majority of them being with pre-existing conditions. This is not changing the narrative because our main opinions or the beliefs are divided from what we think of this virus as. But if bringing rioters into the conversation seemed like it, then I apologize.

You and IC keep misunderstanding me. I even said in reply to eyephone that Christians can get the virus indeed. They could even die if that is the will of God. Getting Covid has nothing to do with you being a Christian or not. And yes, God can send people and help in various ways. I never said God will protect you from the virus no matter what. But to me it surely is interesting that no case is known from Grace Church. It could be either Covid is really just a Camry or there are some with no symptoms or maybe there really is no cases at all. Maybe God is really protecting them since they’ve been faithfully serving and teaching the Word of God? I’m not eliminating that possibility. In all possibilities and with given the Covid death data, there should not be any hesitancy to fully open the Church. If you’re not feeling well, just stay home until you’re better. No one’s forcing any sick person to come to church every Sunday.

Now for me to stay home back then was because we all thought we really needed to (Grace church also closed for weeks at first) and I personally thought the stay home order would last only a short time. I even wrote here that online streaming was giving benefits in different ways. But once we figured the data and rates and the long uncertain lockdowns were keep getting announced, that’s when I started to question and write posts. And also for the sake of others, meeting outside is beneficial so I don’t think it’s really contradicting my beliefs. If not wearing a mask is offending other believers, then I would wear them. If they want me to deny Christ, I won’t do that for them, but little things like safety protocols are something I can practice to give others some comforts myself. Not that I think everyone should, but that’s just me. Besides, masks are kind of handy when you need to cover your needed shave. BTW. Camry is a good car. I’ve had it once and it was fine. Just so that no Camry owner is offended.


Offline eyephone

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Re: God?
« Reply #798 on: October 14, 2020, 08:39:53 AM »
Uh... the fans/rioters are also not being safe. I've said that multiple times. Please don't try to change the narrative to support your position.

Believing God will protect you from a virus is a terrible stance. See IC's previous post about the people who did not want to be rescued during a flood.

If that's what you believe, why did you stay at home? Why use safe measures?

You are just one giant contradiction.

You believe Covid is a BMW. eyephone might think a Ferrari. I think Covid is like a Camry. These are the comparisons with the price tags on each vehicle more expensive ones being more severe. That’s where the main difference is in this and many other conversations. I will say it again just to back my position. Covid death rate in California is 0.04% majority of them being with pre-existing conditions. This is not changing the narrative because our main opinions or the beliefs are divided from what we think of this virus as. But if bringing rioters into the conversation seemed like it, then I apologize.

You and IC keep misunderstanding me. I even said in reply to eyephone that Christians can get the virus indeed. They could even die if that is the will of God. Getting Covid has nothing to do with you being a Christian or not. And yes, God can send people and help in various ways. I never said God will protect you from the virus no matter what. But to me it surely is interesting that no case is known from Grace Church. It could be either Covid is really just a Camry or there are some with no symptoms or maybe there really is no cases at all. Maybe God is really protecting them since they’ve been faithfully serving and teaching the Word of God? I’m not eliminating that possibility. In all possibilities and with given the Covid death data, there should not be any hesitancy to fully open the Church. If you’re not feeling well, just stay home until you’re better. No one’s forcing any sick person to come to church every Sunday.

Now for me to stay home back then was because we all thought we really needed to (Grace church also closed for weeks at first) and I personally thought the stay home order would last only a short time. I even wrote here that online streaming was giving benefits in different ways. But once we figured the data and rates and the long uncertain lockdowns were keep getting announced, that’s when I started to question and write posts. And also for the sake of others, meeting outside is beneficial so I don’t think it’s really contradicting my beliefs. If not wearing a mask is offending other believers, then I would wear them. If they want me to deny Christ, I won’t do that for them, but little things like safety protocols are something I can practice to give others some comforts myself. Not that I think everyone should, but that’s just me. Besides, masks are kind of handy when you need to cover your needed shave. BTW. Camry is a good car. I’ve had it once and it was fine. Just so that no Camry owner is offended.

But I was right to sound the alarm at the beginning of the pandemic. It turns out Trump told Woodward (the journalist) that covid is more deadlier than the flu.


Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #799 on: October 14, 2020, 10:45:58 AM »
Uh... the fans/rioters are also not being safe. I've said that multiple times. Please don't try to change the narrative to support your position.

Believing God will protect you from a virus is a terrible stance. See IC's previous post about the people who did not want to be rescued during a flood.

If that's what you believe, why did you stay at home? Why use safe measures?

You are just one giant contradiction.

You believe Covid is a BMW. eyephone might think a Ferrari. I think Covid is like a Camry. These are the comparisons with the price tags on each vehicle more expensive ones being more severe. That’s where the main difference is in this and many other conversations. I will say it again just to back my position. Covid death rate in California is 0.04% majority of them being with pre-existing conditions. This is not changing the narrative because our main opinions or the beliefs are divided from what we think of this virus as. But if bringing rioters into the conversation seemed like it, then I apologize.

You and IC keep misunderstanding me. I even said in reply to eyephone that Christians can get the virus indeed. They could even die if that is the will of God. Getting Covid has nothing to do with you being a Christian or not. And yes, God can send people and help in various ways. I never said God will protect you from the virus no matter what. But to me it surely is interesting that no case is known from Grace Church. It could be either Covid is really just a Camry or there are some with no symptoms or maybe there really is no cases at all. Maybe God is really protecting them since they’ve been faithfully serving and teaching the Word of God? I’m not eliminating that possibility. In all possibilities and with given the Covid death data, there should not be any hesitancy to fully open the Church. If you’re not feeling well, just stay home until you’re better. No one’s forcing any sick person to come to church every Sunday.

Now for me to stay home back then was because we all thought we really needed to (Grace church also closed for weeks at first) and I personally thought the stay home order would last only a short time. I even wrote here that online streaming was giving benefits in different ways. But once we figured the data and rates and the long uncertain lockdowns were keep getting announced, that’s when I started to question and write posts. And also for the sake of others, meeting outside is beneficial so I don’t think it’s really contradicting my beliefs. If not wearing a mask is offending other believers, then I would wear them. If they want me to deny Christ, I won’t do that for them, but little things like safety protocols are something I can practice to give others some comforts myself. Not that I think everyone should, but that’s just me. Besides, masks are kind of handy when you need to cover your needed shave. BTW. Camry is a good car. I’ve had it once and it was fine. Just so that no Camry owner is offended.

But I was right to sound the alarm at the beginning of the pandemic. It turns out Trump told Woodward (the journalist) that covid is more deadlier than the flu.

As always, I respect your genuine passion to share your beliefs to help others. If your intentions are to get more attention and praise on yourself, then that's something you need to work on humility, but in general, you seem to be on top of all things and share more quickly than the most members here.

But if you're going to talk about Trump, maybe talk about him in political threads. I personally don't think he's a real Christian, but I do hope and pray he will be. Maybe he already is. Who knows? I'm just guessing based on his life style so I could be very wrong on that. Also if you keep calling him a liar, then why even believe what he said to Woodward or anybody at all? Instead of focusing on what he said wrong, maybe focus on promoting what your favored candidate or party does good at. But please do so in political threads. I think it's better to keep the discussion of God and church here.


Offline eyephone

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Re: God?
« Reply #800 on: October 14, 2020, 10:47:50 AM »
Sorry it goes hand in hand with covid. So if you want to talk about covid. Trump will come up.

Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #801 on: October 14, 2020, 10:50:34 AM »
Sorry it goes hand in hand with covid. So if you want to talk about covid. Trump will come up.

Alright. I can only suggest. It's your own choice.

I only shared covid data to help my argument of opening church.

Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #802 on: October 23, 2020, 12:05:06 PM »
Still waiting for Mety's fact check on Grace church.

@IHO. There seems to be 3 confirmed cases from Grace as of now.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/coronavirus-outbreak-strikes-defiant-sun-valley-megachurch-that-held-indoor-services-despite-public-health-orders/

3 cases are according to Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. Not sure how the public health department found out those 3 people attend Grace Church, but still, 3 out of 7000? That's 0.043%. Hopefully it doesn't get spread more. We'll see.

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #803 on: October 23, 2020, 04:16:05 PM »
It's probably more than that.

You can't beat science... or God.
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #804 on: October 24, 2020, 02:07:53 PM »
It's probably more than that.

You can't beat science... or God.

Right, you can’t beat God. But how do you take science as the same level of power as God?

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: God?
« Reply #805 on: October 24, 2020, 08:40:34 PM »
It's probably more than that.

You can't beat science... or God.

Right, you can’t beat God. But how do you take science as the same level of power as God?

Are you sure you are reading? What did I say science was?
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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #806 on: October 24, 2020, 09:48:40 PM »
It's probably more than that.

You can't beat science... or God.

Right, you can’t beat God. But how do you take science as the same level of power as God?

Are you sure you are reading? What did I say science was?

Would you mind saying again?

 

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