Poll

Do you believe in God?

Yes, I am Christian
18 (45%)
Yes, I am a non-Christian
3 (7.5%)
Yes, but I am non-religious
2 (5%)
No, but I believe in a higher power
6 (15%)
No, not at all
11 (27.5%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: God?  (Read 32987 times)

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Offline Panda

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Re: God?
« Reply #270 on: June 24, 2019, 04:34:35 PM »
What do you guys think about this article? His life was demanded of him at 40 Years old. I don't know about you guys, but everyday when I wake up at 5AM, I the first thing that is going to come out of my mouth is "Thank you Lord for giving me another day to live."

Millionaire Doctor Dying From Cancer Warns That Money, Nice Things Bring ‘No Joy’ in the End.

This medical doctor passed away at a young age of 40. He shares his reflections about his life. Very powerful testimony.

https://nextshark.com/richard-teo-singaporean-physician/?fbclid=IwAR2W2GiuA3KbxS21ATIbuwQIWbmZar5BCvRZ8lX9SPsP90FtUkQne5ybwR4

Men, it doesn't matter if you've had a great start in the Christian Life. It doesn't matter if you've stumbled time and time again - or even fallen flat on your face. What matters most is how you finish.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

John 3:16
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Re: God?
« Reply #271 on: June 24, 2019, 05:00:25 PM »
If you take the NT literally, don't be a FOREX trader.

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Re: God?
« Reply #272 on: June 25, 2019, 07:51:04 AM »
Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.

To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.

I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.

What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.

That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.
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Re: God?
« Reply #273 on: June 25, 2019, 08:54:06 AM »
You mean like the parable of talents, (story of stewardship of talent/money of the 3 servants and what they did with it when the master is away, MAXROI was praised and the one that buried in the dirt and got 0 ROI got punished)?
Basically be wise with money

Interesting example. I didn't think about this verse when I was asking the question, but I guess we can relate to this parable Jesus gave also.

I think the main theme Jesus wanted to teach of this verse you brought up is that the man who made 0 ROI had a wrong knowledge of the master, who really is Jesus Himself. The man who made 0 ROI speaks of Jesus as "a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed.." which are all wrong information about the master, Jesus. However, Jesus gave praise to others because of their faithfulness not because of the result they made with talents/money.

Being wise with money, like you said, is a right advice, but I'm not quite sure if that answers where I was going originally. I was asking the question if you should strive to become rich or if you should not care about that in your mind at all as a Christian. Or if you would like to bring up something in the middle between those two ideas, please share.

Max ROI is just a figure of speech. The best outcome for the situation. Would a fisherman make more money selling tuna or a sustainable fish?

I’m sure being a fisherman back in the day they made a profit or traded for goods that they didn’t have. (barter) It’s like almost a necessity of making money. (like survival)

Those fishermen who were Jesus' disciples gave up their profession and followed Jesus. That means they didn't really go back to their old job though Peter kind of almost did, but Jesus confirmed Peter to feed His people which means Jesus ordained Peter to preach the gospel, to be a fisher of men. So after Jesus ascended to Heaven, Peter didn't really work as a fisherman anymore but became a preacher along with the rest of the disciples/Apostles. How did they manage to have money? Well, people started selling their possessions and bringing money and goods to share in the church. That would be seen as collecting offerings now days. But to get real technical, that's nothing new because God did commend Israel in the OT to pay the Levites certain amount of money for them to minister God's works. So that in the same way is still kept on even to now.

Anyways, it seems like trading and trying to make profits for ourselves were not really what God's people should be after but they should seek to help the poor and strive to learn the Word of God as the main goal. THEN God would take care of the rest as He knows we need money, clothes, housings, etc. I'm not saying don't work and just to go church to learn gospel. I'm saying what our heart desires as the most important thing should not be making money or profits. But I'm curious, if you don't really put money before God, then why are we even looking at stock trying to make the most out of it? Why are we even investing our lifetime trying to be debt free or whatsoever? Why care so much for MAXROI? Many big companies or famous rich people show off their donation to help the poor, but I'm sure they are tax deducting big time off those donations for their own profits anyways. What seems good on the surface doesn't always mean it's the right thing especially with God. Of course, only God knows our heart so we ourselves can't really condemn anyone, but I'm trying to see what you guys are really after in this matter. Is God really before money for you? Do you read God's words and strive to know Him more before looking at the stock portfolio every day?

I want to start off by saying thanks for your post. I have to disagree with you. A person who makes an honest living is not committing sin.

Let’s be clear about helping out people. Who’s the one compassionate to help the homeless even if it’s not popular? (My self, belly, and maybe another person) It all comes down to the core principles. Some or a lot of people might not agree, but there’s nothing we can do. But at the end of the day, I can say I tried to help another fellow human being. Can they? Also, I have done things to help other people.

All I have to say regarding ROI. Don’t knock the person because they work hard, read, up to date with the news and trends. (What does the Bible day about jealousy? Actually there are many versus about jealousy. I rest my case.)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 10:42:49 AM by eyephone »

Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #274 on: June 25, 2019, 10:04:30 AM »
Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.

To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.

I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.

What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.

That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.

I probably am doing the same thing as you stated mostly in order to walk in faith. However, do we really need to be "rich" to feed our family? Does it really make it easier to serve others when you are "more rich?" Jesus probably had less money than any of us and He still had no problem serving God the Father and others. Okay, He is the Son of God so you might say His case was a little different. Then how about all the Apostles and first believers in Jerusalem? I'm not against money. I think the problem is when you have "love of money" as GH said and also as Jesus said. Wanting to be rich in order to feed family or to serve others doesn't sound like loving money, but isn't this kind of saying we see money as more priority than God in order to share the good news? Isn't that in a way saying we think more money would work more effectively than just straight up sharing Christ?

This is my inner struggle also. That's why I keep asking you guys, but I believe Jesus was commanding us to have priority the other way. I think Jesus was telling us to get to know God more rather than get to know how to make more money even if it means to serve others because once you know God more and more you will most likely share the good news naturally and God will take care of those needs you have. Thoughts?



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Re: God?
« Reply #275 on: June 25, 2019, 10:18:05 AM »
You mean like the parable of talents, (story of stewardship of talent/money of the 3 servants and what they did with it when the master is away, MAXROI was praised and the one that buried in the dirt and got 0 ROI got punished)?
Basically be wise with money

Interesting example. I didn't think about this verse when I was asking the question, but I guess we can relate to this parable Jesus gave also.

I think the main theme Jesus wanted to teach of this verse you brought up is that the man who made 0 ROI had a wrong knowledge of the master, who really is Jesus Himself. The man who made 0 ROI speaks of Jesus as "a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed.." which are all wrong information about the master, Jesus. However, Jesus gave praise to others because of their faithfulness not because of the result they made with talents/money.

Being wise with money, like you said, is a right advice, but I'm not quite sure if that answers where I was going originally. I was asking the question if you should strive to become rich or if you should not care about that in your mind at all as a Christian. Or if you would like to bring up something in the middle between those two ideas, please share.

Max ROI is just a figure of speech. The best outcome for the situation. Would a fisherman make more money selling tuna or a sustainable fish?

I’m sure being a fisherman back in the day they made a profit or traded for goods that they didn’t have. (barter) It’s like almost a necessity of making money. (like survival)

Those fishermen who were Jesus' disciples gave up their profession and followed Jesus. That means they didn't really go back to their old job though Peter kind of almost did, but Jesus confirmed Peter to feed His people which means Jesus ordained Peter to preach the gospel, to be a fisher of men. So after Jesus ascended to Heaven, Peter didn't really work as a fisherman anymore but became a preacher along with the rest of the disciples/Apostles. How did they manage to have money? Well, people started selling their possessions and bringing money and goods to share in the church. That would be seen as collecting offerings now days. But to get real technical, that's nothing new because God did commend Israel in the OT to pay the Levites certain amount of money for them to minister God's works. So that in the same way is still kept on even to now.

Anyways, it seems like trading and trying to make profits for ourselves were not really what God's people should be after but they should seek to help the poor and strive to learn the Word of God as the main goal. THEN God would take care of the rest as He knows we need money, clothes, housings, etc. I'm not saying don't work and just to go church to learn gospel. I'm saying what our heart desires as the most important thing should not be making money or profits. But I'm curious, if you don't really put money before God, then why are we even looking at stock trying to make the most out of it? Why are we even investing our lifetime trying to be debt free or whatsoever? Why care so much for MAXROI? Many big companies or famous rich people show off their donation to help the poor, but I'm sure they are tax deducting big time off those donations for their own profits anyways. What seems good on the surface doesn't always mean it's the right thing especially with God. Of course, only God knows our heart so we ourselves can't really condemn anyone, but I'm trying to see what you guys are really after in this matter. Is God really before money for you? Do you read God's words and strive to know Him more before looking at the stock portfolio every day?

I want to start off by saying thanks for your post. I have to disagree with you. A person who makes an honest living is not committing sin.

Let’s be clear about helping out people. Who’s the one compassionate to help the homeless? (My self, belly, and maybe another person)

All I have to say. Don’t knock the person because they work hard, read, up to date with the news and trends. (What does the Bible day about jealousy? Actually there are many versus about jealousy. I rest my case.)

Thanks for your answer. What part exactly are you disagreeing with?

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Re: God?
« Reply #276 on: June 25, 2019, 10:19:06 AM »
You mean like the parable of talents, (story of stewardship of talent/money of the 3 servants and what they did with it when the master is away, MAXROI was praised and the one that buried in the dirt and got 0 ROI got punished)?
Basically be wise with money

Interesting example. I didn't think about this verse when I was asking the question, but I guess we can relate to this parable Jesus gave also.

I think the main theme Jesus wanted to teach of this verse you brought up is that the man who made 0 ROI had a wrong knowledge of the master, who really is Jesus Himself. The man who made 0 ROI speaks of Jesus as "a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed.." which are all wrong information about the master, Jesus. However, Jesus gave praise to others because of their faithfulness not because of the result they made with talents/money.

Being wise with money, like you said, is a right advice, but I'm not quite sure if that answers where I was going originally. I was asking the question if you should strive to become rich or if you should not care about that in your mind at all as a Christian. Or if you would like to bring up something in the middle between those two ideas, please share.

Max ROI is just a figure of speech. The best outcome for the situation. Would a fisherman make more money selling tuna or a sustainable fish?

I’m sure being a fisherman back in the day they made a profit or traded for goods that they didn’t have. (barter) It’s like almost a necessity of making money. (like survival)

Those fishermen who were Jesus' disciples gave up their profession and followed Jesus. That means they didn't really go back to their old job though Peter kind of almost did, but Jesus confirmed Peter to feed His people which means Jesus ordained Peter to preach the gospel, to be a fisher of men. So after Jesus ascended to Heaven, Peter didn't really work as a fisherman anymore but became a preacher along with the rest of the disciples/Apostles. How did they manage to have money? Well, people started selling their possessions and bringing money and goods to share in the church. That would be seen as collecting offerings now days. But to get real technical, that's nothing new because God did commend Israel in the OT to pay the Levites certain amount of money for them to minister God's works. So that in the same way is still kept on even to now.

Anyways, it seems like trading and trying to make profits for ourselves were not really what God's people should be after but they should seek to help the poor and strive to learn the Word of God as the main goal. THEN God would take care of the rest as He knows we need money, clothes, housings, etc. I'm not saying don't work and just to go church to learn gospel. I'm saying what our heart desires as the most important thing should not be making money or profits. But I'm curious, if you don't really put money before God, then why are we even looking at stock trying to make the most out of it? Why are we even investing our lifetime trying to be debt free or whatsoever? Why care so much for MAXROI? Many big companies or famous rich people show off their donation to help the poor, but I'm sure they are tax deducting big time off those donations for their own profits anyways. What seems good on the surface doesn't always mean it's the right thing especially with God. Of course, only God knows our heart so we ourselves can't really condemn anyone, but I'm trying to see what you guys are really after in this matter. Is God really before money for you? Do you read God's words and strive to know Him more before looking at the stock portfolio every day?

I want to start off by saying thanks for your post. I have to disagree with you. A person who makes an honest living is not committing sin.

Let’s be clear about helping out people. Who’s the one compassionate to help the homeless? (My self, belly, and maybe another person)

All I have to say. Don’t knock the person because they work hard, read, up to date with the news and trends. (What does the Bible day about jealousy? Actually there are many versus about jealousy. I rest my case.)

Thanks for your answer. What part exactly are you disagreeing with?

Read my updated posts. Thanks

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Re: God?
« Reply #277 on: June 25, 2019, 10:47:38 AM »
I know this may be controversial.
You can greet your neighbor in church and shake their hand. How about be cordial to people in real life?

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Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #278 on: June 25, 2019, 10:47:58 AM »
You mean like the parable of talents, (story of stewardship of talent/money of the 3 servants and what they did with it when the master is away, MAXROI was praised and the one that buried in the dirt and got 0 ROI got punished)?
Basically be wise with money

Interesting example. I didn't think about this verse when I was asking the question, but I guess we can relate to this parable Jesus gave also.

I think the main theme Jesus wanted to teach of this verse you brought up is that the man who made 0 ROI had a wrong knowledge of the master, who really is Jesus Himself. The man who made 0 ROI speaks of Jesus as "a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed.." which are all wrong information about the master, Jesus. However, Jesus gave praise to others because of their faithfulness not because of the result they made with talents/money.

Being wise with money, like you said, is a right advice, but I'm not quite sure if that answers where I was going originally. I was asking the question if you should strive to become rich or if you should not care about that in your mind at all as a Christian. Or if you would like to bring up something in the middle between those two ideas, please share.

Max ROI is just a figure of speech. The best outcome for the situation. Would a fisherman make more money selling tuna or a sustainable fish?

I’m sure being a fisherman back in the day they made a profit or traded for goods that they didn’t have. (barter) It’s like almost a necessity of making money. (like survival)

Those fishermen who were Jesus' disciples gave up their profession and followed Jesus. That means they didn't really go back to their old job though Peter kind of almost did, but Jesus confirmed Peter to feed His people which means Jesus ordained Peter to preach the gospel, to be a fisher of men. So after Jesus ascended to Heaven, Peter didn't really work as a fisherman anymore but became a preacher along with the rest of the disciples/Apostles. How did they manage to have money? Well, people started selling their possessions and bringing money and goods to share in the church. That would be seen as collecting offerings now days. But to get real technical, that's nothing new because God did commend Israel in the OT to pay the Levites certain amount of money for them to minister God's works. So that in the same way is still kept on even to now.

Anyways, it seems like trading and trying to make profits for ourselves were not really what God's people should be after but they should seek to help the poor and strive to learn the Word of God as the main goal. THEN God would take care of the rest as He knows we need money, clothes, housings, etc. I'm not saying don't work and just to go church to learn gospel. I'm saying what our heart desires as the most important thing should not be making money or profits. But I'm curious, if you don't really put money before God, then why are we even looking at stock trying to make the most out of it? Why are we even investing our lifetime trying to be debt free or whatsoever? Why care so much for MAXROI? Many big companies or famous rich people show off their donation to help the poor, but I'm sure they are tax deducting big time off those donations for their own profits anyways. What seems good on the surface doesn't always mean it's the right thing especially with God. Of course, only God knows our heart so we ourselves can't really condemn anyone, but I'm trying to see what you guys are really after in this matter. Is God really before money for you? Do you read God's words and strive to know Him more before looking at the stock portfolio every day?

I want to start off by saying thanks for your post. I have to disagree with you. A person who makes an honest living is not committing sin.

Let’s be clear about helping out people. Who’s the one compassionate to help the homeless even if it’s not popular? (My self, belly, and maybe another person) It all comes down to the core principles. Some or a lot of people might not agree, but there’s nothing we can do. But at the end of the day, I can say I tried to help another fellow human being. Can they?

All I have to say regarding ROI. Don’t knock the person because they work hard, read, up to date with the news and trends. (What does the Bible day about jealousy? Actually there are many versus about jealousy. I rest my case.)

Living an honest life is great, but sin is a different category. Everyone is under sin. Proof? Everyone is drying as we get older. Death is the result of sin or a sinful life as that's what God promised sin would do to us from the book of Genesis. If anyone is not dying and living forever, only that person is not under sin. (hint. there is Someone like that already)

Your support for homeless people or the shelter in Irvine was one of very few. Belly probably was more enthusiastic because of his hatred toward GP in a political sense, but I'm not him so I can't fully speak for his motivation. As I mentioned earlier to king's reply, helping others is good as long as the motivation is good and pure before God. I could say I donated $5 billion to a homeless shelter or a church but still have a prideful heart wanting to show off and get all other benefits and praise from other people. Then that's not really a good faithful action in God's eyes but a lie and a deceitful corruption. But since only God knows one's heart, we can't really fully know yet of anyone's motivations or intentions. For example, no one knew Judas Iscariot would betray Jesus until the very moment he actually did. No one knew he was a fake believer though Jesus knew from the beginning.

Making ROI is fine. Being smart with God's given talent and money is a good way to present good stewardship. But if we think we must make more ROI and money to expand God's Kingdom, then that's where I'm having a question since God never commanded in The Holy Bible for us to get rich in order to do His work. God rather tells us to trust in Him more than worldly riches and He will do take care of our needs.

I'm not sure who was being jealous, but again this is the heart issue where we can't fully know of others.


Offline GH

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Re: God?
« Reply #279 on: June 25, 2019, 10:52:32 AM »
I heard from some message before that one of the greatest tool Satan use is to try to make us compare ourselves to others to distract us from our true calling in following Him based on the gift He has given us.   Comparing with others either make us deficient (because some may be seemingly more closer to God than us) or make us proud and complacent (when some are weaker in faith than us) --   

So there is really no point of discussing the merit of the rich donating a lot of money and guessing their intent because only God knows their true heart.  If you see a brother/sister in Christ (that you know well) that is sliding in faith because of his/her pursue of wealth, gently remind him/her out of brotherly love.  But I think to compare yourself to some random folks that you barely know their circumstances and their calling and what they do with their wealth is just not the right direction to do.

There was a story somewhere in John 21, where Peter asked Jesus "what about Him"? and Jesus reply was in the line of if I want him alive until I return, what is that to you -- just follow me --- 





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Re: God?
« Reply #280 on: June 25, 2019, 10:53:14 AM »
@Mety

What do you think is a better option. A person makes money legally or illegally. (Only two choices)

I guess a third option is to live off the government or bum off relatives.

The Bible or someone from the church would most likely agree with legally.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 11:02:11 AM by eyephone »

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Re: God?
« Reply #281 on: June 25, 2019, 10:55:26 AM »
I know this may be controversial.
You can greet your neighbor in church and shake their hand. How about be cordial to people in real life?

This is a very good point I actually want to speak of.
I see many problems with Christians that they are acting so nice and "holy" in church and to church people, but then they are exactly the opposite at home and in a non-church environment. I believe this is one of the biggest reasons that children saw their parents such hypocriticism and not wanting to go to church these days. Of course, their fake actions do not represent God at all, but it sure does become hinderance.


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Re: God?
« Reply #282 on: June 25, 2019, 11:02:41 AM »
I heard from some message before that one of the greatest tool Satan use is to try to make us compare ourselves to others to distract us from our true calling in following Him based on the gift He has given us.   Comparing with others either make us deficient (because some may be seemingly more closer to God than us) or make us proud and complacent (when some are weaker in faith than us) --   

So there is really no point of discussing the merit of the rich donating a lot of money and guessing their intent because only God knows their true heart.  If you see a brother/sister in Christ (that you know well) that is sliding in faith because of his/her pursue of wealth, gently remind him/her out of brotherly love.  But I think to compare yourself to some random folks that you barely know their circumstances and their calling and what they do with their wealth is just not the right direction to do.

There was a story somewhere in John 21, where Peter asked Jesus "what about Him"? and Jesus reply was in the line of if I want him alive until I return, what is that to you -- just follow me ---

I agree. We don't need to bash on some random people of what they do with their money. I didn't mean to do that. I was only rendering examples to drive the point of my question.

I wanted to ask.. what is the right way to manage our wealth as a Christian? Because in order to make ROI or profit, you sure need to spend much time thinking and giving your heart into. Would God rather want us to spend our time getting to know Him and think/talk/share of Him in those times instead?


Offline Mety

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Re: God?
« Reply #283 on: June 25, 2019, 11:13:00 AM »
@Mety

What do you think is a better option. A person makes money legally or illegally. (Only two choices)

I guess a third option is to live off the government or bum off relatives.

The Bible or someone from the church would most likely agree with legally.

Of course the best option would be making money legally. Although there could be many ways of making legal money ending up as a corruption in this world before God's eyes. Just because I've made money legally, it doesn't mean I'm more righteous or better than those who made illegally or someone living off the government.

What matters would be how much "heart" are we putting into in terms of making money?


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Re: God?
« Reply #284 on: June 25, 2019, 11:18:28 AM »
@Mety

No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.

Is this what are you trying to say?

 

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