Stonegate Vs. Pavilion Park

BuddyLeo

BuddyLeo

Member
With Pavilion Park opened in the Great Park area, let's share observations on what you see are the main differences between these newer developments vs. the Irvine Company's Stonegate neighborhood.

Will PP/GP make it more difficult for the Irvine Company to maintain their sky high prices or will it raise the value of homes in general for Irvine.
 
I don't like either Stonegate/Cypress Village/Pavilion Park locations, but you get more house for your money at PP.

Not sure how much more because you also pay more Mello Roos than TIC properties.
 
I live in Stonegate and visited PP a number of time just for fun.

Stonegate:
Pro:
Location: 

I like where Stonegate is.  It's really quiet and relatively convenient.  Sand Canyon is a bear right now but it should get better when the construction is finished.  Stonegate is still close to Jeffrey and Jamboree.  Also easy access to Portola Parkway when we drive back to the OH shopping center

School:

PP is zoned into an elementary school but Stonegate has one in the community.  Adds to my own interests as well as potential future sales. 

Style of homes:

I went to all of the models and only liked Rosemist and maybe Sagewood.  The rest of the models don't interest me in any way.  Also PP seems to be focused on high end market ($900K-1+ million)...the lower end models are very meh (Birch Trail was terrible).

Parks:

The parks in Stonegate are great IMO.  Good equipment and lots of open grass areas.  PP is devoid of grass and the parks are kinda desert-esque.  The equipment is pretty minimal.

Cons:

Value (lack thereof):  Houses at Stonegate are not very good values...especially as they are currently priced.  A lot of motorcourt homes.

Neighborhood:  This is not a knock on Stonegate's feel...I actually like the little parks but it's pretty much the standard Irvine layout. 

PP:

Value (high end):  Compared to Stonegate, PP gives you a much better value.  Driveways and large yards.  Rosemist for example is a fantastic buy at $1.1 million as compared to Sausalito at $1.3M. 

Neighborhood:  Most of the models are SFRs so there is much more neighborhood feeling.  You can walk the neighbor and it feels comfortable and open.  Stonegate have groupings of homes  that are close together and lots of asphalt.

Roundabout:  Roundabouts are cool.  Stonegate has too many stop signs and they are badly place IMO.  Some of the signs are hidden by trees.

Cons:

Military base history:  I know the current PP plans are on the residential portions but the military base history of the place does not make me feel very comfortable.

Location:  PP is just as close to the 5 but bordered the 133.  There is two main ways in the out of the place, most people will probably go on the Irvine Blvd exit, which leads to a clogging of traffic as you need to make a left on Sand Canyon.  Stonegate has multiple exit points.

PP is faraway from commercial space.  It's relatively close to Woodbury Center but pretty far from Jeffrey.  It is better than PH but still on the other side of the 133.  Once GP builds out, it should be nice.




 
 
I haven't had a chance to check out PP but I'll comment on SG living:

Pros.

1.  It's a good distance from the 5 so it is pretty quiet for the most part. 

2. Parks are nice especially the main one. Nice basketball courts and tesnnis courts and they are building a new one over by the Condo Corner (Santa Maria, Santa Clara, etc).  Had a lot of good looking playground equipment.

3. Elementary school in the neighborhood.  Love this that we can walk our kids to school, although right now enrollment is almost full so you're going to go to Canyon View until PS can get their own school.

4.  Location is great.  I use to live in Palmeras before buying a home and being able to talk to Woodbury town center was and is great. 

Cons

1.  There are only 3 entrances into the community which creates issues during rush hour and when school lets out.  I wished they put an entry on Jeffrey instead of making those 5 extra homes where the entrance could have been.

2.  Like Irvinecommuter said. Stop signs - I know they put a bunch in after that fact because people were speeding through the neighborhood, while I understand the need for safety they are an annoyance. (not saying they aren't needed just observation).

3.  Lack of variety in home style.  After going to Cypress Village and Woodbury they had a good amount of variation in the exteriors of the homes to add some character to the neighborhood.  IP just took their cookie cutter threw out half of them and said I'm only using these cookie cutters and ran wild with it. 
 
Irvinecommuter said:
Military base history:  I know the current PP plans are on the residential portions but the military base history of the place does not make me feel very comfortable.
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As far as I know, PP is located on former farmland (or nursery land). Was it converted to that after the base closed? Was that area even part of the base?

Another con for PP:

No full court basketball court.
 
bones said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Irvinecommuter said:
Military base history:  I know the current PP plans are on the residential portions but the military base history of the place does not make me feel very comfortable.
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As far as I know, PP is located on former farmland (or nursery land). Was it converted to that after the base closed? Was that area even part of the base?

Another con for PP:

No full court basketball court.
Click to expand...

I've asked extensively about this and have seen the various disclosures for PP.  PP was part of the base but it was not actively used for military operations, but instead was leased for commercial agricultural use to the former Bordier's Nursery operation.  Previous existing structures within PP included greenhouses, offices, maintenance structures, compost areas and other improvements associated with the nursery operation.  The nursery has been present since 1976. 
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That's what I thought... as far back as I can remember that area was agricultural.

I guess that's why they can have that greenhouse next to the park and there are no disclosures about not being able to grow fruit trees in your yards (unlike another former base home tract... ahem).

Or do those disclosures exist at PP too?
 
Not having lived in either place but having toured model homes in both, I prefer the variety of SFRs in PP, much more of a neighborhood feel. Additionally, I find SG horrible-appearing, landscape-wise. It is about as sterile (eg boring) as landscaping can get. Even other Irvine Company neighborhoods (Woodbury and Portola Springs nearby) aren't so monotone.  Landscape-wise, the only thing I don't like about PP are the black walls; I don't really get those at all, and how they fit in with the neighborhood.
 
NYT said:
Not having lived in either place but having toured model homes in both, I prefer the variety of SFRs in PP, much more of a neighborhood feel. Additionally, I find SG horrible-appearing, landscape-wise. It is about as sterile (eg boring) as landscaping can get. Even other Irvine Company neighborhoods (Woodbury and Portola Springs nearby) aren't so monotone.  Landscape-wise, the only thing I don't like about PP are the black walls; I don't really get those at all, and how they fit in with the neighborhood.
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Woodbury looked pretty much like SG when it first opened.  You need time for the vegetation to grow in.
 
In the long run land is more valuable than the house so I'd prefer PP due to the larger lot sizes. At the moment Stonegate is more centrally located but once the whole Great Park retail and schools are built they might be more tied in that regard.
 
paperboyNC said:
In the long run land is more valuable than the house so I'd prefer PP due to the larger lot sizes. At the moment Stonegate is more centrally located but once the whole Great Park retail and schools are built they might be more tied in that regard.
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slightly flawed in that developed land is more valuable.  The majority of the value of the home comes from the enclosed structure.  The bigger yard is a plus but it's not super significant.  Factoring in the extra cost of landscaping and maintenance, I think it's a wash.

I have no facts to base this by I think SG will be worth more $/square feet vs. PP in 10 years.
 
I live in SG and I really liked PP when I visited the models.  I like that different developers are building near each other so that there is variety on neighboring streets.  Feels less cookie cutter even though it is... That said, SG has the elementary school already, a large sports park, and based on the number of homes in the GP, I'd be surprised if SG doesn't stay zoned to NHS. 
 
I'm with paperboy, I also believe in the more land equals more value but that has to be tempered with the location.

A 1 acre lot in Riverside is worth less than a detached condo in Irvine. :)

But since Stonegate and PP are very close to each other... land > location on this one.
 
Hey bones... trying not to be invasive but looks like we are shopping for the same product.

Are you renting right now (I think you sold your other home)?

How is it working out for you? We would rather find something that we can buy now rather than wait until next year to close.

Yeah... this should probably be a PM but it's always fascinating to see what other people are going through.
 
I will be very interesting to see how everything shakes out 5 to 10 years from now when its all said and done and built out.  There will be winners and losers in terms of which "village" they bought into today....what will values be between SG, WB, CV, PP, etc.  I want to be the guy who bought into Woodbridge vs. Greentree or Walnut. 
 
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