Talk Irvine

General => Economy & Finance => Topic started by: irvinehomeowner on June 17, 2021, 06:35:38 PM

Title: Work situation?
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 17, 2021, 06:35:38 PM
So I heard on the radio that recently quite a few people are quitting because of several reason, one of them requiring being back in office and many are looking for remote jobs because they prefer it.

What are you doing?

Some of us can do hybrid but there are certain groups of workers who have to return to office and they don't like it. We've had a few people resign because they want to stay remote.

There seems to be a quite a few open jobs out there... even remote... are you still remote, prefer back in-office or really don't mind either way?
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: marmott on June 17, 2021, 07:47:45 PM
Still remote for now, I have yet to put a foot in my new company's offices but down the line it will be hybrid (3 days in the office, 2 at home). No ETA for a return in the office.

Not sure how flexible they will be around the hybrid work model but only very few people will be allowed to go fully remote. It looks like it's the trend in bigger tech companies and a lot of people are getting caught by surprise.

Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: daedalus on June 17, 2021, 08:11:02 PM
My co was pretty flexible to begin with.  I have a coworker who was working remote from Seattle since before the pandemic.  I have another who will be moving to AZ in July.  I haven't looked into it, but I assume they're able to avoid paying CA taxes.   I am both on site and remote, depending on the phase of the project.  I like the change of pace.  Working at a desk gets boring.  Being on my feet all day gets tiring.  Otherwise, I guess I could move back home and live with my parents.  Good school district there for the little one.  We could do pretty well doing that and renting our houses out, even if my wife decided to not get a job there.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: Kenkoko on June 17, 2021, 09:14:52 PM
We went from no remote work prior to COVID to full remote during COVID.

Briefly went back to hybrid at the beginning of this year, but it was not very well liked by most.

One person on my team quit because of this.

Now full remote option is back on.

I still need to show up in person for an in person meeting about once a month. But other than that, it's full remote.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: qwerty on June 17, 2021, 11:22:23 PM
We have still not gone back. We will likely do a 3-2 split with 3 being at home but I’m guessing since our team has executed very well while working remote we will have a lot of flexibility on when we come in. I’m pretty certain if I wanted to do full remote I could get that done but it would probably be somewhat of a career limiting move to go full remote.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: freedomcm on June 18, 2021, 06:46:48 AM
never stopped going in.

tired of the whiners, including both the tech bros and teachers, complaining.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: zovall on June 18, 2021, 07:54:00 AM
We've been fully remote unless it was necessary to come in (~20% of the workforce) and are reopening fully in September. The company is allowing various degrees of remote work (2 days a week, fully remote but in SoCal, fully remote but still in the US - salary may be adjusted in future). We will see what the adoption is. I'd like to be fully remote and come in as needed.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: NotAnEarlyBird on June 18, 2021, 08:19:05 AM
If your job can be done remotely, what are the chances your company may find someone in China or India to  do it? Cheaper labor cost.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: zovall on June 18, 2021, 08:33:02 AM
Fully remote does open up that possibility though my particular company is government related and currently even their most flexible policy regarding remote work requires us to reside in the US. We do have many long-term contractors, some of which work from home in Canada.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 08:59:42 AM
If your job can be done remotely, what are the chances your company may find someone in China or India to  do it? Cheaper labor cost.

Just because you go to work, does not mean your working efficiently.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: marmott on June 18, 2021, 09:12:15 AM
never stopped going in.

tired of the whiners, including both the tech bros and teachers, complaining.

That’s cute but most of the people don’t get to decide, at least in large companies  ;D

Just got notified that we are moving to a new phase with 30% of staff allowed on site by end of June, you don’t get to choose just yet as the more hands on position take priority.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 10:02:11 AM
If your job can be done remotely, what are the chances your company may find someone in China or India to  do it? Cheaper labor cost.

Just because you go to work, does not mean your working efficiently.

For the people who are not working efficiently and good quality work. Maybe they should not be with the company. (just saying)
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: Kenkoko on June 18, 2021, 10:19:41 AM
never stopped going in.

tired of the whiners, including both the tech bros and teachers, complaining.

That’s cute but most of the people don’t get to decide, at least in large companies  ;D


Sure, but people do get to decide ultimately.

Not trying to nitpick, but people are invoking their ultimate choice by quitting as IHO pointed out in his original post / question.

And I get people's frustration with the teachers union in particular.

In NYC, the teachers received priority in getting vaccinated, but were the last hold outs on returning to in person teaching. Studies have shown that remote learning is 30%-70% less effective in content based learning. Parents are rightfully outraged.

Not sure if it's the same here in OC since my daughter is too young to go to school yet.

Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: akula1488 on June 18, 2021, 10:29:11 AM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 10:38:48 AM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.


I respect your feedback. Free coffee? Been there done that. Free coffee, drinks, snacks, alcohol, food. Meh, I dont really care about that. Things I look for growth opportunity, company culture, and of course money.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: NotAnEarlyBird on June 18, 2021, 10:53:08 AM
Quoted from:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/06/15/morgan-stanley-ceo-james-gorman-said-about-his-return-to-headquarters-plan-if-you-can-go-to-a-restaurant-in-new-york-city-you-can-come-into-the-office/?sh=66095d7636a8

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/04/28/jp-morgan-requires-employees-to-return-to-their-offices-by-july-striking-a-blow-to-the-remote-work-trend/?sh=7b2b10f04cdc

growth opportunity - Similar to JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon’s position, Gorman said, “Returning to the office was particularly important for junior members of staff who were training on the job. “[The office is] where we teach, where our interns learn. That’s how we develop people. Where you build all the soft cues that go with having a successful career that aren’t just about Zoom presentations.”

company culture - “Most professionals learn their job through an apprenticeship model, which is almost impossible to replicate in the Zoom world.” The CEO expressed his concern, “Over time, this drawback could dramatically undermine the character and culture [of the company.]”

money - “If you want to get paid New York rates, you work in New York.”
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: AW on June 18, 2021, 11:12:16 AM
If your job can be done remotely, what are the chances your company may find someone in China or India to  do it? Cheaper labor cost.

Last company i consulted for did that with their AP, sure it's cheaper, but there are issues along with it.  If it's a process from a to z with zero deviation, then it's good.  But there are always cases where something comes up and they typically require assistance/clarification from people in a different timezone before something gets done, (unhappy customers/vendors), which also puts additional strain on the non-outsourced current employees/work groups (longer hours).
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: AW on June 18, 2021, 11:19:18 AM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.


I respect your feedback. Free coffee? Been there done that. Free coffee, drinks, snacks, alcohol, food. Meh, I dont really care about that. Things I look for growth opportunity, company culture, and of course money.

Time and the flexibility in how you get to spend it would be high on my list.  Fortunately I get to spend time with the kiddos... I've seen alot of folks who make a ton of money but only spend a handful of waking hours with their kids a week (maybe it's their choice?)
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 11:27:59 AM
Quoted from:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/06/15/morgan-stanley-ceo-james-gorman-said-about-his-return-to-headquarters-plan-if-you-can-go-to-a-restaurant-in-new-york-city-you-can-come-into-the-office/?sh=66095d7636a8

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/04/28/jp-morgan-requires-employees-to-return-to-their-offices-by-july-striking-a-blow-to-the-remote-work-trend/?sh=7b2b10f04cdc

growth opportunity - Similar to JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon%u2019s position, Gorman said, %u201CReturning to the office was particularly important for junior members of staff who were training on the job. %u201C[The office is] where we teach, where our interns learn. That%u2019s how we develop people. Where you build all the soft cues that go with having a successful career that aren%u2019t just about Zoom presentations.%u201D

company culture - %u201CMost professionals learn their job through an apprenticeship model, which is almost impossible to replicate in the Zoom world.%u201D The CEO expressed his concern, %u201COver time, this drawback could dramatically undermine the character and culture [of the company.]%u201D

money - %u201CIf you want to get paid New York rates, you work in New York.%u201D

Appreciate your post. But it all depends. A particular bolt or screw does not fit all holes.
Investment banking is a lot different from jobs in California.

We are not here to baby sit and watch you. Hand holding is a joke. High turnover rate working at the big firms even before covid.

Regarding zoom: if a person does not know how to use zoom or effectively communicate then maybe the job is not right for the person. 

If you are concerned about person quality of work. The company should hire better people and/or pay more for top notch college graduates. Everybody knows that.

New York pays well, but other places pay well also.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 11:29:22 AM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.


I respect your feedback. Free coffee? Been there done that. Free coffee, drinks, snacks, alcohol, food. Meh, I dont really care about that. Things I look for growth opportunity, company culture, and of course money.

Time and the flexibility in how you get to spend it would be high on my list.  Fortunately I get to spend time with the kiddos... I've seen alot of folks who make a ton of money but only spend a handful of waking hours with their kids a week (maybe it's their choice?)

It is all relative and up to the person. There is no judgement. (No offense to the person that likes going to work for coffee is laughable. To me at least.)
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: akula1488 on June 18, 2021, 01:32:19 PM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.


I respect your feedback. Free coffee? Been there done that. Free coffee, drinks, snacks, alcohol, food. Meh, I dont really care about that. Things I look for growth opportunity, company culture, and of course money.

My company culture encourages a lot of in person cooperation. It is one the better known companies in California.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 18, 2021, 01:35:38 PM
Personally I like to be in office for the free coffee and the view. The drive to work is also scenic.


I respect your feedback. Free coffee? Been there done that. Free coffee, drinks, snacks, alcohol, food. Meh, I dont really care about that. Things I look for growth opportunity, company culture, and of course money.

My company culture encourages a lot of in person cooperation. It is one the better known companies in California.

Yeah it all depends on the industry and company.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: marmott on June 18, 2021, 03:01:19 PM
Sure, but people do get to decide ultimately.

Not trying to nitpick, but people are invoking their ultimate choice by quitting as IHO pointed out in his original post / question.

And I get people's frustration with the teachers union in particular.

In NYC, the teachers received priority in getting vaccinated, but were the last hold outs on returning to in person teaching. Studies have shown that remote learning is 30%-70% less effective in content based learning. Parents are rightfully outraged.

Not sure if it's the same here in OC since my daughter is too young to go to school yet.

If this pandemic has changed people's mind on the work model they prefer I don't see how it makes them whiners. If they are willing to quit to keep the remote work model kudos to them, there are many reasons to want a job change and remote work is just one that is becoming more prevalent.

I'm not disputing the all teacher unions debacle, France managed to have all the kids back at school on January 4th 2021 and that was without widespread vaccination. Teachers strike on a regular basis in France but I did not hear much opposition to this when it was decided.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: qwerty on June 18, 2021, 05:09:54 PM
For the most part white collar workers have worked their entire career going into the office, including the c-suites that make the rules. Now that people have gotten a taste of remote work, as that older c-suite gets turned over and replaced with the younger more progressive people, the hybrid model or remote work will be the norm. The job market will dictate that the hybrid model/remote work be offered by all companies otherwise you won’t get the talent.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 18, 2021, 07:54:34 PM
I wonder what kind of effect most companies requiring their employees to come in 2-3 days a week will have on the housing market (aka the flight from urban areas to the suburbs).
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: daedalus on June 18, 2021, 08:19:55 PM
I can't imagine having to learn the ropes of my business remotely.  It's just too difficult.  Likewise, my effectiveness as a seasoned mentor is blunted.  Too many nuances that can't be communicated effectively with a screen share.  And sometimes the only way to get someone to stop ignoring emails and voicemails and jump through a required hoop is to go to their office and stand over their shoulder until they deal with it.  I have spoken to a number of people at work, and the opinion seems to be unanimous.  I think maybe the company is responding to candidate surveys from college kids the company is trying to recruit, and not listening to the new hires who already have the job.  At the end of the day, though, it'll only make me more valuable as time goes on, and I get to park a lot closer to the entrance, so I'm not going to complain too loudly.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: UrvineLegend on June 18, 2021, 10:09:22 PM
Currently on remote, but have gone into office more than several times, and still no words on when we'll be called in.  For my job, I estimate that I need to be in office about half the times.  This remote working slows down progress of my projects somewhat.  My company just sent out a survey to all office people asking our preference on remote/in office work schedule.  I'm thinking of 2/3 hybrid schedule for myself.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on June 22, 2021, 07:53:08 PM
I think it’s funny how some companies are trying to act tough and are not listening to their employees on such a simple matter. They aren’t asking for raises, they are simply asking for the flexibility to work wherever they want. As far as I’m concerned, why should it matter where one works? As long as they do their job and commit to their deliveries they promised, there should be no issues.

It will be interesting how this all plays out. I think companies are quite stupid if they think WFH is worth losing out on great talent. My company seems to be flexible with being remote fully and coming in as needed.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: akula1488 on June 22, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
I think it’s funny how some companies are trying to act tough and are not listening to their employees on such a simple matter. They aren’t asking for raises, they are simply asking for the flexibility to work wherever they want. As far as I’m concerned, why should it matter where one works? As long as they do their job and commit to their deliveries they promised, there should be no issues.

It will be interesting how this all plays out. I think companies are quite stupid if they think WFH is worth losing out on great talent. My company seems to be flexible with being remote fully and coming in as needed.

A lot of company are paying salaries based on the zip code of the office location. That's why silicon Valley pays good compensation to offset the insane housing cost there.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: OCtoSV on June 23, 2021, 10:56:09 AM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: nosuchreality on June 23, 2021, 11:36:13 AM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.

Particularly dangerous for tech type, IMHO.  I can run a remote team from Czech, Romania, Ireland, India as readily as I can manage a team from at home in OC, Palo Alto, etc.  Initial sourcing is a pita, once done, sourcing then no more difficult than here.

I worked at IBM for a bit, they have successfully done WFH for decades. Make no mistake though, everybody WFH is a spreadsheet number.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on June 23, 2021, 01:41:01 PM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
This differs from each individual. There is no right or wrong answer to this. But putting out a blanket statement like that is quite harsh. You do know there are tons of stats saying that people work harder at home than in office right?
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: nosuchreality on June 23, 2021, 02:24:50 PM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
This differs from each individual. There is no right or wrong answer to this. But putting out a blanket statement like that is quite harsh. You do know there are tons of stats saying that people work harder at home than in office right?

Worker reported stats don’t mean anything, proof will be on the bottom line and if the org can get more done.

JIMHO, orgs should be able to get more done simply by WFH puts a neuter on shitshow instant reactionary crap. 

That said OCtoSV said a fundamental truth for corporate work.  If you are not establishing a personal relationship with the shakers, you’re just a contract cog.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on June 23, 2021, 05:04:09 PM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
This differs from each individual. There is no right or wrong answer to this. But putting out a blanket statement like that is quite harsh. You do know there are tons of stats saying that people work harder at home than in office right?

Worker reported stats don’t mean anything, proof will be on the bottom line and if the org can get more done.

JIMHO, orgs should be able to get more done simply by WFH puts a neuter on shitshow instant reactionary crap. 

That said OCtoSV said a fundamental truth for corporate work.  If you are not establishing a personal relationship with the shakers, you’re just a contract cog.
Being in tech that is simply not true. So it's definitely job specific. I rather let my technical skills do the talking and bring in my value from that than knowing how to kiss someones behind.

You're right, proof is the bottom line and is shown in tech earnings. Not sure if you're following tech earnings, but they are definitely outperforming. Hence their stock increase in 2020 despite the stupid narrative of dumping tech stocks because of rising interest rates.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: nosuchreality on June 23, 2021, 05:13:09 PM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
This differs from each individual. There is no right or wrong answer to this. But putting out a blanket statement like that is quite harsh. You do know there are tons of stats saying that people work harder at home than in office right?

Worker reported stats don’t mean anything, proof will be on the bottom line and if the org can get more done.

JIMHO, orgs should be able to get more done simply by WFH puts a neuter on shitshow instant reactionary crap. 

That said OCtoSV said a fundamental truth for corporate work.  If you are not establishing a personal relationship with the shakers, you’re just a contract cog.
Being in tech that is simply not true. So it's definitely job specific. I rather let my technical skills do the talking and bring in my value from that than knowing how to kiss someones behind.

If you're not the one creating the idea for the product, the major design creator, you're just manufacturing fulfillment.

It's not *ss-kissing.  It's relationship.  It's established knowledge that you're the trustworthy competent 2nd tech opinion and eventually first opinion.

Good tech skills are hard to find, but they're still a commodity.

WFH, just makes the commoditization completely obvious and your competition directly global.

Make sure you're the top 5% doing the big picture work and not the widget work.

In other words, don't let your personal brand get commoditized.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on June 23, 2021, 05:36:18 PM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.
This differs from each individual. There is no right or wrong answer to this. But putting out a blanket statement like that is quite harsh. You do know there are tons of stats saying that people work harder at home than in office right?

Worker reported stats don’t mean anything, proof will be on the bottom line and if the org can get more done.

JIMHO, orgs should be able to get more done simply by WFH puts a neuter on shitshow instant reactionary crap. 

That said OCtoSV said a fundamental truth for corporate work.  If you are not establishing a personal relationship with the shakers, you’re just a contract cog.
Being in tech that is simply not true. So it's definitely job specific. I rather let my technical skills do the talking and bring in my value from that than knowing how to kiss someones behind.

If you're not the one creating the idea for the product, the major design creator, you're just manufacturing fulfillment.

It's not *ss-kissing.  It's relationship.  It's established knowledge that you're the trustworthy competent 2nd tech opinion and eventually first opinion.

Good tech skills are hard to find, but they're still a commodity.

WFH, just makes the commoditization completely obvious and your competition directly global.

Make sure you're the top 5% doing the big picture work and not the widget work.

In other words, don't let your personal brand get commoditized.
I would argue having good work ethic would be more important and in turn can make one trust your work and be the one to go to. It does not involve needing to be physically in the office to do that. I'm also not against building relationships, but don't stand up here telling me that it requires to be in office to do so. I'm not going to work to look for a wife or a companion...

As for WFH increasing competition sure, I prefer that as I would like to have the ones that aren't qualified weeded out. :)
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: qwerty on June 23, 2021, 07:24:16 PM
What is happening in this discussion is what I commented on earlier. Old school vs new school. As the younger 
sleepy5136 folks move up the mentality at the top will change, it’s only a matter of time.

Also, the key positions at companies are hard to get anyway, so even if you are the office full time there is no gaurantee that it will advance your career. The cream always rises. If the top performer is wfh that person will move up one way or another. 

Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 23, 2021, 09:29:50 PM
Hardest part for me going back into the office.. figuring out what's for lunch.

I'm too lazy to pack and bring anything every day and that's where WFH was convenient because if I didn't have enough time I could do lunch in 5-10 minutes from whatever was in the fridge/freezer... whereas now I have to get in the car and drive somewhere.

Also running errands, going to medical/dental appointments or having trades people over was much easier... I was an in-office worker proponent but now I actually prefer remote or hybrid. You work weird hours but that's the plus, you make your own schedule outside of mandatory meetings/calls you have to attend.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: daedalus on June 23, 2021, 09:38:26 PM
I've been involved with an outsourcing project.  We had a contract with a programing shop in India.  Our project manager and his right hand man were both from India.  The entire thing was a shitshow.  For their part, the overseas workers were wonderful.  So eager to please, willing to put in crazy hours, time zones meant nothing, very responsive to requests/critiques, yadda yadda yadda.  But we were just too far apart in nuances.  The things we thought were most basic and which we never even thought to spell out were misconstrued, and they made assumptions based on what they thought was obvious.   I don't know if it was ethnic culture, or corporate culture, or both, but it was terrible.  Our programming costs dropped and our project management costs soared.  We were getting the results, but it took constant babysitting and a mind-numbing amount of iterations. I'm sure if we had stuck with it, we would have ended up with an acceptable solution for lower costs, but it wouldn't have been as user-approachable and our schedule did not allow it.  Managers get real antsy when a program is burning 10s of thousands of dollars an hour.  Based on that, and other things I've read, I'm not too worried about getting outsourced.  It's the guy in the next office over who's the threat.  But if we're #1 and #2, it doesn't really matter who's #1 and who's #2; we'll both always have jobs.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: Irvinehomeseeker on June 23, 2021, 10:08:21 PM
Hardest part for me going back into the office.. figuring out what's for lunch.

I'm too lazy to pack and bring anything every day and that's where WFH was convenient because if I didn't have enough time I could do lunch in 5-10 minutes from whatever was in the fridge/freezer... whereas now I have to get in the car and drive somewhere.

Also running errands, going to medical/dental appointments or having trades people over was much easier... I was an in-office worker proponent but now I actually prefer remote or hybrid. You work weird hours but that's the plus, you make your own schedule outside of mandatory meetings/calls you have to attend.
100% agree with above!!

I am not eager to get back into office.  My company seems fine with WFH for the most part. They have seen productivity boost up. When surveyed, pretty much all  my team preferred wfh full time.

Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: moc on June 24, 2021, 08:50:57 AM
My career would be nowhere if I didn't prioritize F2F interaction with senior execs, all of whom have come back and we are trying to lead by example.

Prioritizing lifestyle over career will be noticed and not rewarded. But no one will mind WFH on Fridays. All about striking the right balance.

I agree with part of this - face to face time is valuable and it's about balance. I will personally be doing 3-4 days a week in the office, with much more flexibility to WFH as needed.

But - prioritizing lifestyle over career is a false choice to me. I received the feedback that I was more productive and effective during COVID. Why? I was able to sleep more, exercise more, and spend more time with family (often virtually, but still). More time spent on my "lifestyle" translated into better productivity and outcomes at work!

Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: qwerty on June 24, 2021, 09:25:52 AM
Another factor is you were already established and held in high regard prior to covid wfh then wfh in the future will probably impact that person less than someone new to the company
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: nosuchreality on June 24, 2021, 10:17:04 AM
I view WFH as more similar to not working in the HQ.

You can still be influential but have to put more strategic effort into it as you don’t have the casual exposure.  As the exec teams adapt, it potentially could be really empowering and field leveling for regional office players. 

In the transitional period, you have increased exposure to being collateral damage.  If you’re #1 or #2 on a org of 100, you’ll be fine, but the decision will be made at the aggregate level.  Really impactful at the mid level down, IMO.

As orgs adapt, that mid-level in Kansas is just as viable as the mid-level locally if the job goes full WFH. Even one day a week in office, keeps the job pool local.  The squeeze comes when orgs update their mindset from FTE headcount to $$$/org delivery.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 24, 2021, 10:57:43 AM
The Hill Article: Two dead, four hospitalized in COVID-19 outbreak at Florida government building

Two people died and four were hospitalized after a coronavirus outbreak at a government building in Florida.
Manatee County Administrator Scott Hopes told CNN that the outbreak began in the IT department, and six people ended up being infected.

The one exposed employee in the department who was vaccinated did not get infected, the administrator said.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/559668-two-dead-four-hospitalized-in-covid-19-outbreak-at-florida

This maybe the new normal at workplaces.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: freedomcm on June 24, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
Florida:  natural selection incubator

The Hill Article: Two dead, four hospitalized in COVID-19 outbreak at Florida government building

Two people died and four were hospitalized after a coronavirus outbreak at a government building in Florida.
Manatee County Administrator Scott Hopes told CNN that the outbreak began in the IT department, and six people ended up being infected.

The one exposed employee in the department who was vaccinated did not get infected, the administrator said.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/559668-two-dead-four-hospitalized-in-covid-19-outbreak-at-florida

This maybe the new normal at workplaces.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: OCtoSV on June 24, 2021, 11:32:22 AM
I was also much more productive WFH from a "work output" perspective, however a big part of my role is mentoring my team to become the closer that I am (JK) and doing intense interpersonal communication over Zoom/Webex is EXHAUSTING. Even for a sw developer or hw designer you need to be in the lab with others to bounce ideas when debugging - that is how true breakthoughs happen. I think functions like finance and procurement can be almost totally remote however if you aspire to being anything other than a valued IC facetime with senior leaders is required.

Everyone loves the freedom of WFH, but it is the rare individual that is able to sustain a career without the stress of being on the outside looking in while working completely remote. That stress to me is greater than the stress of driving to/from the office (~30 mins for me)
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 24, 2021, 12:43:09 PM
Do you think HR will check if people are vaccinated? So this may happen. (an assumption for conversational purposes)

Florida:  natural selection incubator

The Hill Article: Two dead, four hospitalized in COVID-19 outbreak at Florida government building

Two people died and four were hospitalized after a coronavirus outbreak at a government building in Florida.
Manatee County Administrator Scott Hopes told CNN that the outbreak began in the IT department, and six people ended up being infected.

The one exposed employee in the department who was vaccinated did not get infected, the administrator said.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/559668-two-dead-four-hospitalized-in-covid-19-outbreak-at-florida

This maybe the new normal at workplaces.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: daedalus on June 24, 2021, 05:51:35 PM
I have already uploaded a pic of my covid vax card to my workplace database.
Title: Do Chance Meetings at the Office Boost Innovation? There’s No Evidence of It.
Post by: WTTCHMN on June 25, 2021, 12:55:23 PM
Do Chance Meetings at the Office Boost Innovation? There’s No Evidence of It.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/upshot/remote-work-innovation-office.html
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: aquabliss on June 25, 2021, 04:29:43 PM
Do Chance Meetings at the Office Boost Innovation? There’s No Evidence of It.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/upshot/remote-work-innovation-office.html

Don't you guys ever just stand up and whiteboard things out in a meeting?  This is completely not the same to try and do virtual whiteboarding.  Sitting there with your colleagues using a marker and a board in real time is a much more positive experience.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on June 25, 2021, 11:08:07 PM
Do Chance Meetings at the Office Boost Innovation? There’s No Evidence of It.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/upshot/remote-work-innovation-office.html

Don't you guys ever just stand up and whiteboard things out in a meeting?  This is completely not the same to try and do virtual whiteboarding.  Sitting there with your colleagues using a marker and a board in real time is a much more positive experience.
Not having a whiteboard is definitely one thing that I miss about going to an office. But I've adapted to use PPT to use shapes and arrows to show/discuss architecture. Sure it's not as great as drawing on a white board, but it works. In the end, we do need to have the diagrams drawn digitally anyway.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 26, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Do Chance Meetings at the Office Boost Innovation? There’s No Evidence of It.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/upshot/remote-work-innovation-office.html

Don't you guys ever just stand up and whiteboard things out in a meeting?  This is completely not the same to try and do virtual whiteboarding.  Sitting there with your colleagues using a marker and a board in real time is a much more positive experience.

It's getting pretty close with the online tools. And with virtual whiteboarding, you can screen cap and add to documents (unless you have one of those tech whiteboards that can do that in your conference room or you just old school camera phone it).
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: OCtoSV on June 28, 2021, 07:18:14 AM
I had several key moments of F2F collaboration last week with one of the new people I hired over the pandemic, and the value both of us and the company received from being in the office together was incredibly high. One of our execs took us out for an incredible Indian lunch Friday as well.

Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 28, 2021, 07:49:10 AM
I had several key moments of F2F collaboration last week with one of the new people I hired over the pandemic, and the value both of us and the company received from being in the office together was incredibly high. One of our execs took us out for an incredible Indian lunch Friday as well.

Get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged

Brag about company free company lunch? I was like that when I first got a job.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: OCtoSV on June 28, 2021, 07:59:50 AM
no, just relating the value of being in the office. I bought lunch last time we got together before returning.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: eyephone on June 28, 2021, 09:01:30 AM
I was just joking.  >:D
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: momopi on August 04, 2021, 10:57:34 AM
As of Aug I have been ordered back to office in Irvine.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2021, 11:14:01 AM
Still fully remote for our company.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: zovall on August 04, 2021, 11:16:58 AM
We were supposed to come back in early September but that is now on hold due to Delta.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: marmott on August 04, 2021, 12:00:09 PM
Same here, we went backwards last week because of Delta. I don’t see us going back before October and even then it will only be 1 day a week.
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2021, 12:54:15 PM
I just hope that they don't close down open houses again. 
Title: Re: Work situation?
Post by: sleepy5136 on August 05, 2021, 10:35:16 PM
I'm estimating back to office for most people would be early 2022 (assuming no new variant). This coming fall and winter will be brutal if it's not contained soon.
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