Talk Irvine

General => Real Estate => Irvine Real Estate => Topic started by: peregrine on October 25, 2019, 01:44:27 PM

Title: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: peregrine on October 25, 2019, 01:44:27 PM
I've been trying to identify the large parcel of land immediately SE adjacent of Altair and the IP communities in Portola Springs. Asked the IP agents to no avail ("Don't know, but I hope it's future retail.")

City of Irvine GP, Figure L-3 indicates "NCCP habitat identified for future public ownership by Facilitation Agreement ... between the City and the land owner."

What is the history of this area? Is this former military land (looks like there might be some bunkers out there)? Has it been remediated? Is it irrevocably preserved for conservation or could this be developed in the future? There are facilities in the middle of this tract but nothing seemingly available online that would identify them, the only label I've found being "Private Road."

Thank you.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair
Post by: lnc on October 25, 2019, 03:42:08 PM
Believe or not, FBI own part of it and rest are wildlife preserve.  And yes, it use to be part of the base.

It's call Jerry Crowe FBI Regional Tactical Training Center.  1 Magazine Rd Irvine CA, 92618.

And at one time, FBI wants to expand the firing range.

https://www.ocregister.com/2007/04/05/officials-disagree-on-firing-range-on-old-el-toro-base/

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 25, 2019, 04:09:21 PM
Inc is awesome... hope he/she doesn't try to monetize their posts. :)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair
Post by: peregrine on November 24, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
Believe or not, FBI own part of it and rest are wildlife preserve.  And yes, it use to be part of the base.

It's call Jerry Crowe FBI Regional Tactical Training Center.  1 Magazine Rd Irvine CA, 92618.

And at one time, FBI wants to expand the firing range.

https://www.ocregister.com/2007/04/05/officials-disagree-on-firing-range-on-old-el-toro-base/



Thank you. Is there a map somewhere delineating which part is FBI-owned and which part is preserve?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: peregrine on November 26, 2019, 06:51:40 PM
Are there any environmental concerns in Portola Springs other than an FBI shooting range to the south? (Not sure how close that is to the homes in Portola Springs as some of that area appears to be dedicated conservation space which may serve as a buffer.)

Orchard Hills seems to have both asphalt plant and pesticide concerns, GP a superfund past, PS ...? Historical satellite indicates an agricultural history but there doesn't appear to be active spraying. Thanks.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on November 27, 2019, 07:14:41 AM
Are there any environmental concerns in Portola Springs other than an FBI shooting range to the south?

The only environmental concern is the Toll Road depending on how close the property is to it.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on November 27, 2019, 10:00:43 AM
Not trying to YF it, but there is a county landfill everyone seems to forgot about. I personally don’t think it’s a concerning level of environmental hazardous matter though. Just posting in case anyone cares.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 01, 2019, 07:17:40 PM
Reader but never posted anything - I just struggle so much when PS gets bashed for being "close to the toll road" but then, 241 has LESS traffic than Irvine Blvd and Portola Parkway (I lived bordering both), FAR LESS traffic than Jamboree / Culver (lived near both), and VASTLY LESS traffic than 405 and 5 (hello Quail Hill, Laguna Altura, Cypress Village, parts of Woodbury).

On the issue of landfill, again, if you're LOOKING to find a smell attributable to it, you may or may not find it when wind inversion happens twice a day. You may catch a whiff for 10-15 minutes until the winds pick up again in their usual bimodal directions. Believe me, I've tried, it's hard to FIND it, but when you TRY hard, you'll find it eventually 1-2 times per week and wonder what it is but then it is gone in 10-15 min. Then again, Stonegate, Eastwood, Great Park are all very similarly equidistance. Lambert Ranch is literally closer than most of Portola Springs. I passed near Woodbury the other day, and the car filled with a bad stench passing the area, cleared up near spectrum. I work in Laguna Hills and smell odors more commonly than in any area of Irvine. If you WANT to find a smell, you’ll find it no matter what neighborhood you’re in (hello Asphalt smell in Orchard Hills, Northpark). When we got serious to buy in Woodbury, we easily noticed the trucks cause more noise and smell and dust than anything else, which was confirmed by the neighbor of the house we were about to put an offer on (hello, Woodbury, Cypress Village, Stonegate). His defense was his house was one more house away from sand canyon and he thinks it’s not too bad for him as much as the house we were going to put offer on.

I say all of this not to join the bashing trend here. I say this because, the talks in these forums are paralyzing for new buyers. You’re literally insecure on deciding on any neighborhood and then after you work through your fears provoked by these forums, then you realize the floor plans are bad in a lot of areas or very dated and compartmentalized (northpark, northwood estates, northpark square) or have very small rooms (orchard hills) or have a yard resembling a matchstick box (literally 90% of inventory in Irvine built after 2010 priced less than 1.5 mil) or you have five houses looking inside your house (hello orchard hills) or you have no ability to have any decent amount of sunlight in the house due to the direction of all houses (Cypress village, Woodbury).

We seriously looked and thought about buying in Orchard Hills, then realized the asphalt and roundup pesticide discussion, and then saw half the properties empty and the remainder filled 80% with FCBs and figured we should not put $500/sqft. We looked in Quail Hill, but found the prices far worse and houses older. But, I don't see anybody in these forums bashing QH for being so close to 405. I mean, 405 traffic (apples) vs 241's significantly lower volume of traffic (oranges).

I think there is too much bashing of neighborhoods around here, depending on which poster has property or interests in which neighborhood (and hence, driving down the value of other neighboring hoods to raise their own). There is NO PERFECT neighborhood. We are all EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to have a chance to live in Irvine, and most of us are sacrificing a LOT to live here, mainly for the education of our children, the relative safety, and the significant diversity that allows the melting pot live peacefully. But only in Irvine forums, you'd find people BASHING their own city/hoods for no clear reason. I mean, I am colleagues with people with gross income of over 600-700k / year who choose to live in Yorba Linda, or Chino Hills, or Tustin Legacy (waste management area, I know), or Brea (yeah, the other landfill). You simply don’t see so much self destructive comments on these areas. They simply live and go on. I know people much more deserving of a house in Irvine, who wish they could just come up with the down, and not commute from corona. And all they’d wish for is to live in any of these neighborhoods in Irvine that are being bashed by people in these forums. The crowd here is just self centered and cannot find much better to do with their lives than to remind everyone how the landfill is close to PS and how the toll highway traffic is a hazard they cannot live with but would gladly live in Quail Hill because 405 traffic is nonsense when you live in such prestigious area as Quail Hill.

Let's hope to a time when terms such as "landfill ranch" and "potty springs" are less used. Some of us live in these areas and would like to keep its reputation unblemished.

And if the env hazard of living near 241 or the landfill that's 2 miles away cannot sit straight with you, I invite people to not consider these neighborhoods, and I invite most people to look in the mirror and on the scale, look at the iPads their children are holding in their hands 16 hours a day, and look at how much time they're spending exercising. These are far more hazardous things you can actually modify. And enjoy life more so you come to these forums less often to post repeated comments on how the landfill and 241 are close to Portola springs. We all have a map. We know. Thank you for yet another reminder. We should make a sticky on the forum stating that PS borders 241 and is the closest to landfill. That way there is less time spent repeating these two facts of life and we can all spend more time with our families.

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: OCLuvr on December 01, 2019, 08:20:26 PM
Welcome back......  :D... Nice speech... any plans of contesting elections?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: WTTCHMN on December 01, 2019, 09:13:18 PM
Reader but never posted anything - I just struggle so much when PS gets bashed for being "close to the toll road" but then, 241 has LESS traffic than Irvine Blvd and Portola Parkway (I lived bordering both), FAR LESS traffic than Jamboree / Culver (lived near both), and VASTLY LESS traffic than 405 and 5 (hello Quail Hill, Laguna Altura, Cypress Village, parts of Woodbury).

On the issue of landfill, again, if you're LOOKING to find a smell attributable to it, you may or may not find it when wind inversion happens twice a day. You may catch a whiff for 10-15 minutes until the winds pick up again in their usual bimodal directions. Believe me, I've tried, it's hard to FIND it, but when you TRY hard, you'll find it eventually 1-2 times per week and wonder what it is but then it is gone in 10-15 min. Then again, Stonegate, Eastwood, Great Park are all very similarly equidistance. Lambert Ranch is literally closer than most of Portola Springs. I passed near Woodbury the other day, and the car filled with a bad stench passing the area, cleared up near spectrum. I work in Laguna Hills and smell odors more commonly than in any area of Irvine. If you WANT to find a smell, you’ll find it no matter what neighborhood you’re in (hello Asphalt smell in Orchard Hills, Northpark). When we got serious to buy in Woodbury, we easily noticed the trucks cause more noise and smell and dust than anything else, which was confirmed by the neighbor of the house we were about to put an offer on (hello, Woodbury, Cypress Village, Stonegate). His defense was his house was one more house away from sand canyon and he thinks it’s not too bad for him as much as the house we were going to put offer on.

I say all of this not to join the bashing trend here. I say this because, the talks in these forums are paralyzing for new buyers. You’re literally insecure on deciding on any neighborhood and then after you work through your fears provoked by these forums, then you realize the floor plans are bad in a lot of areas or very dated and compartmentalized (northpark, northwood estates, northpark square) or have very small rooms (orchard hills) or have a yard resembling a matchstick box (literally 90% of inventory in Irvine built after 2010 priced less than 1.5 mil) or you have five houses looking inside your house (hello orchard hills) or you have no ability to have any decent amount of sunlight in the house due to the direction of all houses (Cypress village, Woodbury).

We seriously looked and thought about buying in Orchard Hills, then realized the asphalt and roundup pesticide discussion, and then saw half the properties empty and the remainder filled 80% with FCBs and figured we should not put $500/sqft. We looked in Quail Hill, but found the prices far worse and houses older. But, I don't see anybody in these forums bashing QH for being so close to 405. I mean, 405 traffic (apples) vs 241's significantly lower volume of traffic (oranges).

I think there is too much bashing of neighborhoods around here, depending on which poster has property or interests in which neighborhood (and hence, driving down the value of other neighboring hoods to raise their own). There is NO PERFECT neighborhood. We are all EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to have a chance to live in Irvine, and most of us are sacrificing a LOT to live here, mainly for the education of our children, the relative safety, and the significant diversity that allows the melting pot live peacefully. But only in Irvine forums, you'd find people BASHING their own city/hoods for no clear reason. I mean, I am colleagues with people with gross income of over 600-700k / year who choose to live in Yorba Linda, or Chino Hills, or Tustin Legacy (waste management area, I know), or Brea (yeah, the other landfill). You simply don’t see so much self destructive comments on these areas. They simply live and go on. I know people much more deserving of a house in Irvine, who wish they could just come up with the down, and not commute from corona. And all they’d wish for is to live in any of these neighborhoods in Irvine that are being bashed by people in these forums. The crowd here is just self centered and cannot find much better to do with their lives than to remind everyone how the landfill is close to PS and how the toll highway traffic is a hazard they cannot live with but would gladly live in Quail Hill because 405 traffic is nonsense when you live in such prestigious area as Quail Hill.

Let's hope to a time when terms such as "landfill ranch" and "potty springs" are less used. Some of us live in these areas and would like to keep its reputation unblemished.

And if the env hazard of living near 241 or the landfill that's 2 miles away cannot sit straight with you, I invite people to not consider these neighborhoods, and I invite most people to look in the mirror and on the scale, look at the iPads their children are holding in their hands 16 hours a day, and look at how much time they're spending exercising. These are far more hazardous things you can actually modify. And enjoy life more so you come to these forums less often to post repeated comments on how the landfill and 241 are close to Portola springs. We all have a map. We know. Thank you for yet another reminder. We should make a sticky on the forum stating that PS borders 241 and is the closest to landfill. That way there is less time spent repeating these two facts of life and we can all spend more time with our families.

Unclench that sphincter, PS was just named “Village of the Year” in the December issue of the Irvine Standard!!

So what if it’s just propaganda from TIC...  FCB’s are used to that.

Farewell Potty Springs, Landfill Ranch, Value Village...

Hello to the next Bel Air of Irvine... or was that supposed to be Orchard Hills??
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 10:32:54 AM
TIC recently started building in PS.

They hired YF/BTB (or should we say mountaineer?) to promote this area now.


My thoughts
EW had some help from YF for sure.
OH had BTB worked hard to get that cemetery relocated and homeless shelter rumors, etc. to compete against 5P (GP). But never could thought of that asphalt coming. ;D
PS had no help so far so we'll see how it goes.


This post is for entertainment purposes only for those who didn't get it.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
Entertainment or not, you seem to think the readers of this forum have agendas like the rest of you professional posters who spend inordinate amount of time browsing and posting in these forums.

I’m simply a reader until yesterday and one who got frustrated with the nonsense “Environmental hazard” post about 241 highway. Did we seem to forget the 5 and the 405?

As you suggested, these “rumors” do end up devaluing certain areas. And it would be simply amazing if we can just agree that 241 hazards are far less than 5 or 405. And maybe if we come to this conclusion, maybe one day people can stop posting comments like “the only hazard would be the toll road”. Like literally, in what universe do you live that you cannot simply do a simple math of the number of cars on 5 and 405 versus 241. I mean, yeah, the inauguration crowd for my presidency was the largest in history. He also thinks it’s all entertainment. And look where we are as the fabric of the society is being torn apart by an entertainment man who is an addict of another forum, Twitter.

What you post here is not too far away from that. People live in these areas. And by spewing nonsense, values of houses get affected, parents talk about it, kids hear and belittle each other for living in “landfill ranch” and think highly of themselves if their grandparents cash purchased a house in OH for their fortunate son and grandchildren.

We all work hard to get to where we are and maybe even get lucky enough to buy a place in Irvine. But then, professional nonsense posters here just try to ruin it for everyone.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 02, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
I would say all freeways are an environmental concern, the noise that would come with it is bad enough for me to avoid any homes near any freeways or major streets.  This would be for all Irvine homes. 

I guess PS is better that it only has a toll road vs GP right down the street having a toll road, Irvine blvd, and being on the old marine base?  Or is CV worse due to it being closer to the 5 freeway and sand canyon both being busier than PS. If you want to make an informed decision you need to weigh the pros and cons and people post their thoughts here, you can agree or disagree.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 02, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
@mountaineer, the op asked about broad environment concerns specifically to this area, the toll road being the only one, isn't that a good thing? 

Go on ND and see the complaints and rants on no retail, Irvine wanting to build more homes in the area, how there are odors, noise pollution from GP's concerts, how PS is farther than everything else, yet I've said OH and PS to In n Out is about the same...I don't hate on PS, I just tell it how it is in my eyes. And if everyone is saying similar things, there has to be some truth to it, even if you don't agree. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 01:40:51 PM
@mountaineer, the op asked about broad environment concerns specifically to this area, the toll road being the only one, isn't that a good thing? 

Go on ND and see the complaints and rants on no retail, Irvine wanting to build more homes in the area, how there are odors, noise pollution from GP's concerts, how PS is farther than everything else, yet I've said OH and PS to In n Out is about the same...I don't hate on PS, I just tell it how it is in my eyes. And if everyone is saying similar things, there has to be some truth to it, even if you don't agree.

Yes, I've lived around Laguna Altura, far worse highway smog and noise.

Yes, I've lived near Portola Parkway and Culver, far far worse noise from cars, day and night, and some spectacular car crashes with no survivor identifiable even.

So yes, PS has FAR LESS noise and smog that most neighborhoods in Irvine. It's about time some reason is brought back to these forums.

The problem is that minority in these forums, those vocal professional posters like yourself and others with 1000s of posts to their name, feel like all of your "views" are correct because they remain uncontested. The reality is, the houses is PS and GP are selling. And yes, we don't have "prestige" attached to your neighborhoods. Got it. And if "VALUE" village means I'm getting a single-family home for $400/sqf with a nice view (at 1.2-1.3 mil, so much "value" there broadly speaking), VERSUS the absurdity that is blindly FCB-driven that is Orchard Hills for $500-550/sqf with absolute zero privacy and zero view, yeah, I guess I'm happy to in the minority that prefers the "value" here.

Again, the crowd here is so full of themselves thinking that a 3000 sqft house in Irvine at 1.2 mil is certainly inferior and "value" like 99-cent store value.

The crowd here on these forums are borderline rivaling the worst stereotypes that is associated with the Newport crowd. And I've met much more humble, "value" driven people from Newport than the crowd here. Calling a 3000 sqft house priced at $1.2 million a "value". Unbelievable.

Now onto your comments here about PS vs other places:
"Go on ND and see the complaints and rants on no retail" - have been a member of ND, read it all the time, haven't read anything that would resembles "ALL" the complaints. Woodbury shopping is literally 5 minutes away.

"Irvine wanting to build more homes in the area," - yes, PS is FAR FAR less dense than most areas in Irvine, at least now, and yes, the entirety that is Irvine is dense, far more dense than PS. Not only far more dense, but with significant lack of privacy with 5 neighbors with a view into your entire yard and room windows. At least in PS, we have lots of green and more separation between rows of houses. Have you been to Woodbury? Cypress Village? Orchard Hills below 1.5 mil?

"how there are odors," - again, beaten to death by you and others in these forums. There are NO odors from the LANDFILL unless you crazily frantically go out and search for it as I stated in the above post. My soil smells worse from overwatering than the landfill. Bee Canyon wash has minor odor sometimes. So do ALL THE OTHER CANYON WASHES elsewhere in Irvine. I lived bordering Jamboree and the wash/waterway near it and 261 has FAR FAR worse odors. I jogged, biked, and ran alongside it day in and day out and the smell is unforgettable. Asphalt smell? it's not made up, rarely I smell it in PS, but far worse in OH. My workplace in Laguna Hills smells worse most days, and smoggy from 5.

"noise pollution from GP's concerts," - I have YET to hear a single concert noise from GP concerts in PS north of Portola parkway. However, living near laguna Altura and Hidden Canyon, we would have unbearable concern noise for years when the amphitheater was still there. I could not even keep the windows open.

"how PS is farther than everything else," - again, made up crap here, 5 minutes from Woodbury shopping center, 3 minutes to 133 highway, 8 minutes to Spectrum parking lot total, 10 minutes to Whole Foods in Los Olivos marketplace. Again, you're making crap up just to serve your ridiculous points.

"yet I've said OH and PS to In n Out is about the same..." - Foothill ranch In and Out is literally 8-10 minutes away. And has NO LINES for drive thru - have you been to the In n Out at Tustin Markerplace? The drive through wait is literally 45 minutes minimum. The line loops around to entryway to REI most days and night.

"I don't hate on PS, I just tell it how it is in my eyes." - Sure, last defense, Trump also says Twitter rants are his opinion. It doesn't diminish the fact that you're spewing skewed views on ONE SIGNULAR neighborhood just to prove your point. You must have been the annoying kid in the school that nobody could even prove any factual matters to. You always said the last word, and you repeated it until you graduated and went on to make points to others in college, and now in your workplace.

I'm not asking you to change your mind. I'm just hopeful the professional posters on these forums realize just because their posts are uncontested, does not mean they have everything right.

Yeah, PS is the closest to the landfill and borders 241. Got it! Thank you for reminding us.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
Entertainment or not, you seem to think the readers of this forum have agendas like the rest of you professional posters who spend inordinate amount of time browsing and posting in these forums.

I’m simply a reader until yesterday and one who got frustrated with the nonsense “Environmental hazard” post about 241 highway. Did we seem to forget the 5 and the 405?

As you suggested, these “rumors” do end up devaluing certain areas. And it would be simply amazing if we can just agree that 241 hazards are far less than 5 or 405. And maybe if we come to this conclusion, maybe one day people can stop posting comments like “the only hazard would be the toll road”. Like literally, in what universe do you live that you cannot simply do a simple math of the number of cars on 5 and 405 versus 241. I mean, yeah, the inauguration crowd for my presidency was the largest in history. He also thinks it’s all entertainment. And look where we are as the fabric of the society is being torn apart by an entertainment man who is an addict of another forum, Twitter.

What you post here is not too far away from that. People live in these areas. And by spewing nonsense, values of houses get affected, parents talk about it, kids hear and belittle each other for living in “landfill ranch” and think highly of themselves if their grandparents cash purchased a house in OH for their fortunate son and grandchildren.

We all work hard to get to where we are and maybe even get lucky enough to buy a place in Irvine. But then, professional nonsense posters here just try to ruin it for everyone.

To be fair, I-5, I-405, Irvine Blvd. and streets alike are far worse then the 241 Toll Road in terms of pollution and the noise issues because there are simply just more cars on those roads. But we're not comparing homes built right next to these roads/freeways whereas some PS homes are right next to 241. But like I said (and many times before), I don't think being too close to 241 is concerning level. Some people just would like to know what's there, so some people chimed in.

Do you really think these posts impact the sales of homes and the price values? I don't think so. There are other reasons OH or EW homes have higher price tag than some PS homes. And to be real fair, PS homes carry higher MR and will be about the same in terms of mortgage/tax payments anyways. Also the way you wrote here made me not want to buy in PS even more. Landfill Ranch? Kids belittle each other? I never heard these things until you wrote it. Now more people know about those horrible facts that might actually impact the housing value. If you want, I can delete this post into "x" or "." if you know what I mean...

You keep saying people who post here think they they are right all the time or something. I don't think I'm right. In fact, I'm wrong many times. There is no absolute truth in human beings. We're not God. People just write their opinions which can change tomorrow. Isn't that what this forum is about? Prohibiting not to post such opinions is even more unethical or Trump/Kim Jong Un-like IMHO. If you think PS is a great buy, sharing your good experience living there would actually help people want to buy there.

From what I'm seeing, more and more people are buying PS now days so I don't think people talking bad about PS here is impacting anything at all, but it's just my opinion again, isn't it?

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: zubs on December 02, 2019, 02:06:08 PM
Back when lambert ranch was about to open, we called it landfill ranch, stink gate, porta potty springs?
How long ago was that?

Poster must have been reading for many years.


We have thousands of posts because TI has been up for 10 years.


In fact if you click on my profile, today is my 10 year anniversary making this account.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 02:16:24 PM
Again - you're projecting completely skewed exaggerated "facts" about PS. The entire NORTHPARK neighborhood is within 250 meters of either 261, Portola Parkway, or Culver or Irvine Blvd. The entire place. And yet, Very few homes brush against the 250 meter perimeter from 241 in the Portola Springs. The remainder are much farther away than 250 meters.

Same with Laguna Altura. 100% of the neighborhood is within 180 meters of 133 where it actually has traffic going to Laguna. On the other side, most of the neighborhood is swallowed by the 250 perimeter of 405.

Go on and on, Quail Hill (most of it within 300 meters of 405 and 133), Cypress Village (no need to measure anything here), Eastwood (Portola Parkway, Irvine Blvd, Jeffrey literally border the place).

And yes, don't kid yourself and don't offer "delete post" blah blah. I don't need any deletion or adjustment of your posts. Go ahead and leave whatever you want. Posts in these forums DO end up putting fears into people's minds, and that's what's going on around the country, create fear (aka Fox News) and rule. And this is what you guys, the professional posters of these forums, are completely doing.

I also don't think the higher MR of PS truly changes the math equation that is $400/sqft vs ridiculous pricing that is Orchard Hills at $550/sqft. Truly? That's a 25-30% increase in the actual price of the home. Does PS truly has SUCH HIGH MR that it offsets the ridiculous pricing in OH or EW? Do the math for me and i'll gladly concede you're "right" on this one if the math truly works out the way you say it does.

Again, you're trying your best to prove your points. It's just not working out.

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 02:27:37 PM
Again - you're projecting completely skewed exaggerated "facts" about PS. The entire NORTHPARK neighborhood is within 250 meters of either 261, Portola Parkway, or Culver or Irvine Blvd. The entire place. And yet, Very few homes brush against the 250 meter perimeter from 241 in the Portola Springs. The remainder are much farther away than 250 meters.

Same with Laguna Altura. 100% of the neighborhood is within 180 meters of 133 where it actually has traffic going to Laguna. On the other side, most of the neighborhood is swallowed by the 250 perimeter of 405.

Go on and on, Quail Hill (most of it within 300 meters of 405 and 133), Cypress Village (no need to measure anything here), Eastwood (Portola Parkway, Irvine Blvd, Jeffrey literally border the place).

And yes, don't kid yourself and don't offer "delete post" blah blah. I don't need any deletion or adjustment of your posts. Go ahead and leave whatever you want. Posts in these forums DO end up putting fears into people's minds, and that's what's going on around the country, create fear (aka Fox News) and rule. And this is what you guys, the professional posters of these forums, are completely doing.

I also don't think the higher MR of PS truly changes the math equation that is $400/sqft vs ridiculous pricing that is Orchard Hills at $550/sqft. Truly? That's a 25-30% increase in the actual price of the home. Does PS truly has SUCH HIGH MR that it offsets the ridiculous pricing in OH or EW? Do the math for me and i'll gladly concede you're "right" on this one if the math truly works out the way you say it does.

Again, you're trying your best to prove your points. It's just not working out.

I wasn't trying to convince or prove my points to you. I was just posting my opinions, but if it came off like that, then that's your opinion and take. Seems like you're the one who think your points and opinions are right all the time by bashing on those non-PS/GP villages. That's your perspective I can't change. I respect your positive views on PS and GP, but at the end you're doing the same thing you're criticizing about. I'm also totally OK if you're PS/GP rep. Thanks for staying pretty civil though. I do agree with you that living in Irvine is a privilege and those $1m+ homes shouldn't be called "value villages."
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 02:31:13 PM
Back when lambert ranch was about to open, we called it landfill ranch, stink gate, porta potty springs?
How long ago was that?

Poster must have been reading for many years.


We have thousands of posts because TI has been up for 10 years.


In fact if you click on my profile, today is my 10 year anniversary making this account.

The poster is a sold-out-YF paid by 5P. JK.

Happy anniversary.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 02:33:47 PM
A lot of mud slinging and I’m not involved? :)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 02:36:24 PM
A lot of mud slinging and I’m not involved? :)

Where have you been, man?

But there wasn't mud (yet). Maybe from that YF guy, I mean mountaineer.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 02:39:14 PM
Again, Mety: same childish behavior. Try to discredit WHOEVER disagrees with your unrivaled views on these forums by portraying me as an "agent of 5P". The mentality you're using is like extremist forums elsewhere on the web. If god forbid someone tries to shed light on how "skewed" some of the members' "views" are here, and if god forbid they have a point that's valid and there remains no defense, try to label them as "agents" or "reps".

I'm a normal human being, have ABSOLUTELY no connection to any housing company, work an 8-5 service job in healthcare, and could care less what you write about who I am.

It took 5 posts over 24 hours to get you all to say "value village" is the wrong term here when you're talking about 1+ million dollar homes. That summarizes my entire point. Your views are exaggerated and skewed and serve NO PURPOSE that's doing anyone any favors. It is merely amusing to you, and you obviously repeat it because it's amusing. Keep on being amused.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 02:48:36 PM
Again, Mety: same childish behavior. Try to discredit WHOEVER disagrees with your unrivaled views on these forums by portraying me as an "agent of 5P". The mentality you're using is like extremist forums elsewhere on the web. If god forbid someone tries to shed light on how "skewed" some of the members' "views" are here, and if god forbid they have a point that's valid and there remains no defense, try to label them as "agents" or "reps".

I'm a normal human being, have ABSOLUTELY no connection to any housing company, work an 8-5 service job in healthcare, and could care less what you write about who I am.

It took 5 posts over 24 hours to get you all to say "value village" is the wrong term here when you're talking about 1+ million dollar homes. That summarizes my entire point. Your views are exaggerated and skewed and serve NO PURPOSE that's doing anyone any favors. It is merely amusing to you, and you obviously repeat it because it's amusing. Keep on being amused.

OK. Then any reason why you're attacking OH, EW, NP, LA, and all those TIC villages specifically? Any negatives on PS or GP you want to share in the same amount of negativity you did on those other villages? And when did ever I talk crap on PS? I don't think I ever did. Maybe it's you who took it that way.

Thanks for clarifying you're not from 5P. I believe you're a normal human being with 8-5 healthcare job. You certainly revealed a lot about you with these 5 posts and spending inordinate amount of time here also. Welcome aboard.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 02:54:58 PM
Yeah again, the childish mentality at play here.

Now attack the messenger who defied your logic.

I think ALL OF IRVINE is a phenomenal place to live. Remember how I wrote how fortunate we all are to live here, anywhere, for the reasons I cited.

Each village has its deficiencies. To pile up on PS for no clear reason other than to amuse yourself is the issue here. One by one, your reasons (which are clearly repeated again and again in your posts in this thread) are invalid when you try to apply the same reasoning to the other villages.

The SKEWED views projected here are the issue. There is gang mentality here against some villages, and for some villages, and it is repeated over and over again. "The only hazard would be the toll road in PS". Like literally, did the poster think before typing that up? Or does someone truly have to write out the distance from each "premium" village to MAJOR highways and BLVDs in Irvine, in order for you to back off and concede maybe it was an exaggeration.

That's the point. Not to bash other villages. They're all great. The whole damn place is a paradise. An expensive one but paradise. All sorts of sacrifices go into living in Irvine. I can clearly think of MUCH better things to do with 1.5 million dollars than to pay for a house in Irvine. Some of us are not fed by a silver spoon. Some of us work hard for the opportunity to live here. And to amuse yourself by spreading falseness regarding one neighborhood, you're not doing anyone a favor.

This gang mentality in these forums is the issue. I hope you'll find another hobby. And don't compare myself to you or your forum peers. I have like 6 posts to my name. You all have 1000-10,000 posts to your name. Clearly, there is a distinction here.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
Yeah again, the childish mentality at play here.

Now attack the messenger who defied your logic.

I think ALL OF IRVINE is a phenomenal place to live. Remember how I wrote how fortunate we all are to live here, anywhere, for the reasons I cited.

Each village has its deficiencies. To pile up on PS for no clear reason other than to amuse yourself is the issue here. One by one, your reasons (which are clearly repeated again and again in your posts in this thread) are invalid when you try to apply the same reasoning to the other villages.

The SKEWED views projected here are the issue. There is gang mentality here against some villages, and for some villages, and it is repeated over and over again. "The only hazard would be the toll road in PS". Like literally, did the poster think before typing that up? Or does someone truly have to write out the distance from each "premium" village to MAJOR highways and BLVDs in Irvine, in order for you to back off and concede maybe you were exaggerating.

That's the point. Not to bash other villages. They're all great. The whole damn place is a paradise. An expensive one but paradise.

This gang mentality in these forums is the issue.

Who wrote "The only hazard would be the toll road in PS"?

I didn't write that, but even if anyone did, I don't see it as an "attack" or "damage" to the village. But that's me. You're different. So I can't do anything about it.

You keep saying I'm childish. Maybe I am and sorry if that bothers you. Maybe I am much younger than you? LOL

Anyways, I think PS is a great place to buy (as I've been saying that even though mountaineer says I kept attacking PS or some sort) and I apologize if I did anything to bring the housing value. I still think 3,4-story condos are not great buys.

Hope you're not mad anymore, mountaineer.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 03:06:18 PM
This gang mentality in these forums is the issue. I hope you'll find another hobby. And don't compare myself to you or your forum peers. I have like 6 posts to my name. You all have 1000-10,000 posts to your name. Clearly, there is a distinction here.

What about someone who has 1000-10,000 "x" or "." as his posts? Do you think he's spending inordinate time here?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 03:07:23 PM
Not mad. I'm in my 30s.

My post is not meant to be toward you, but the people that like to bash PS in general. Criticizing for a good reason is completely acceptable. To create fear of "health hazard" that you simply cannot prove or disprove if you're the prospective buyer, completely destroys a neighborhood for these buyers and creates a lot of anxiety, where in reality, these "hazards" are unfounded and if true, pale in comparison to choices we make on a daily basis with our food consumption, obesity, sedentary lifestyle, smoking, etc.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: bones on December 02, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
I think some of that value village moniker was given to PS due in part to TIC's treatment of it.  Delayed schools.  Massive changes in the master plan.  Broken promises.  The PS of today is very different than the PS of 10 years ago, but sometimes memories outlast the changes.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 03:30:52 PM
This gang mentality in these forums is the issue. I hope you'll find another hobby. And don't compare myself to you or your forum peers. I have like 6 posts to my name. You all have 1000-10,000 posts to your name. Clearly, there is a distinction here.

What about someone who has 1000-10,000 "x" or "." as his posts? Do you think he's spending inordinate time here?

All I got to say. If feelings get hurt, go cry to mommy.
It’s not my fault that many people say the same thing.  ;)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 03:41:09 PM
While someone might think PS's been receiving some unfair amount of hatred or false rumors, I think all Irvine villages have been receiving some kind of negativity throughout history. Starting from the infamous TCE toxic plume to the asphalt odor, countless poisonous information about the city have been posted and shared. Are those all really "hazardous" in our lives? We can't prove it. The pesticides from QH was accused of causing brain cancer to children so the usage was stopped in that area. But was it really the pesticides that brought such horrible issues there? We can't know 100%. We can only assume and try to improve day by day. We know smoking causes lung cancer and other side affects, but not every smoker gets such illnesses. Some heavy smokers are very healthy until they pass away.

However, I don't think knowing what's in the area hurts especially if you're planning to buy a home, paying your hard earned money. Freeways, a landfill, a concert arena, an asphalt factory, power lines and etc. are all things we need to check and know before buying a property. Some people live very healthy with freeways right next to their homes and some people die early even if they did all those healthy exercises and activities. Knowing about the asphalt and roundup pesticide discussions were the reason the newly joined TI member, mountaineer decided not to buy in OH. Such knowledge help us to make the big decision. Finding out about them after you buy would be far worse anyways.

There is no perfect place on this earth and Irvine is far from perfect. Even with all these fearful rumors, Irvine has been outperforming other cities in terms of ROI and the living experiences. While I think bashing on other villages is something we should be careful to speak of, I believe sharing and knowing what's around are something we should keep doing so here. I personally have learned much information on this forum and helped me decide to buy a home we live in.

In other words - PS is a great place to live. Go buy there if you found a home you love. (No, I don't live in PS)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 03:44:25 PM
While someone might think PS's been receiving some unfair amount of hatred or false rumors, I think all Irvine villages have been receiving some kind of negativity throughout history. Starting from the infamous TCE toxic plume to the asphalt odor, countless poisonous information about the city have been posted and shared. Are those all really "hazardous" in our lives? We can't prove it. The pesticides from QH was accused of causing brain cancer to children so the usage was stopped in that area. But was it really the pesticides that brought such horrible issues there? We can't know 100%. We can only assume and try to improve day by day. We know smoking causes lung cancer and other side affects, but not every smoker gets such illnesses. Some heavy smokers are very healthy until they pass away.

However, I don't think knowing what's in the area hurts especially if you're planning to buy a home, paying your hard earned money. Freeways, a landfill, a concert arena, an asphalt factory, power lines and etc. are all things we need to check and know before buying a property. Some people live very healthy with freeways right next to their homes and some people die early even if they did all those healthy exercises and activities. Knowing about the asphalt and roundup pesticide discussions were the reason the newly joined TI member, mountaineer decided not to buy in OH. Such knowledge help us to make the big decision. Finding out about them after you buy would be far worse anyways.

There is no perfect place on this earth and Irvine is far from perfect. Even with all these fearful rumors, Irvine has been outperforming other cities in terms of ROI and the living experiences. While I think bashing on other villages is something we should be careful to speak of, I believe sharing and knowing what's around are something we should keep doing so here. I personally have learned much information on this forum and helped me decide to buy a home we live in.

In other words - PS is a great place to live. Go buy there if you found a home you love.

In other words, PS is nice, but not doesn’t pass your checklist. I think that’s fair to say.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 03:50:00 PM
While someone might think PS's been receiving some unfair amount of hatred or false rumors, I think all Irvine villages have been receiving some kind of negativity throughout history. Starting from the infamous TCE toxic plume to the asphalt odor, countless poisonous information about the city have been posted and shared. Are those all really "hazardous" in our lives? We can't prove it. The pesticides from QH was accused of causing brain cancer to children so the usage was stopped in that area. But was it really the pesticides that brought such horrible issues there? We can't know 100%. We can only assume and try to improve day by day. We know smoking causes lung cancer and other side affects, but not every smoker gets such illnesses. Some heavy smokers are very healthy until they pass away.

However, I don't think knowing what's in the area hurts especially if you're planning to buy a home, paying your hard earned money. Freeways, a landfill, a concert arena, an asphalt factory, power lines and etc. are all things we need to check and know before buying a property. Some people live very healthy with freeways right next to their homes and some people die early even if they did all those healthy exercises and activities. Knowing about the asphalt and roundup pesticide discussions were the reason the newly joined TI member, mountaineer decided not to buy in OH. Such knowledge help us to make the big decision. Finding out about them after you buy would be far worse anyways.

There is no perfect place on this earth and Irvine is far from perfect. Even with all these fearful rumors, Irvine has been outperforming other cities in terms of ROI and the living experiences. While I think bashing on other villages is something we should be careful to speak of, I believe sharing and knowing what's around are something we should keep doing so here. I personally have learned much information on this forum and helped me decide to buy a home we live in.

In other words - PS is a great place to live. Go buy there if you found a home you love.

In other words, PS is nice, but not doesn’t pass your checklist. I think that’s fair to say.

Thus I added "(No, I don't live in PS)." But it wasn't because of the toll roads or the landfill. We just couldn't find the floor plan we liked at our budget.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 03:52:24 PM
Counter argument: A person can say the toll roads is nothing compared living close to the 5 fwy.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 02, 2019, 03:55:23 PM
Yes. Good to be wholesome and fair when talking about these "hazards" and not to pile it all up against PS or other certain neighborhood in the future, when the same "hazards" apply to other villages, even more significantly. As I mentioned, landfill is an issue for most of northeast Irvine. Freeways, that's an issue for the entire SoCal. Or if the area is NOT near a freeway, then you have another "issue" on your hand with it being "far from all freeways". It's an art to try to be fair, and just because you decided against PS, does not mean it should be bashed to oblivion.

It takes ONE TWEET to scare a whole nation of a certain ethnicity. Repeated posts about PS's "hazards" certainly scare away a lot of people. Who would want brain cancer for their child? And how can you possibly recover from such perceived notion on a neighborhood if you're a prospective buyer? I would have bought in OH had it been more fairly valued, and had an actual floorplan that had decent sized rooms not the size of closets at our price range (below 1.3) as I saw its shortcomings nothing short of PS or EW or GP, in different ways for each. Each of us have an equation to solve and it's hard as it is, we don't need unfounded "hazards" to add to the equation when the same hazards apply to all villages one way or another.

Just because a person here didn't happen to buy in any certain neighborhood, it does not give them the right to CREATE a sense of unfounded HEALTH HAZARDS for other villages based on non-factual claims. I'm glad for people pointing out the potential issues for each neighborhood, so we're all aware of what we're getting into. So for that, thank you!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 03:59:29 PM
The answer is Johns Creek. :D
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 04:03:19 PM
The answer is Johns Creek. :D

Tell him about the previous Irvine village war thread.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 04:07:11 PM
The answer is Johns Creek. :D

Tell him about the previous Irvine village war thread.

I think he's been reading this thread since quite some time ago so he might know.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 02, 2019, 04:08:28 PM
The answer is Johns Creek. :D

Tell him about the previous Irvine village war thread.

I think he's been reading this thread since quite some time ago so he might know.

Maybe not
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 02, 2019, 04:09:00 PM
IMHO, if TIC builds a Portola Springs Town Center, PS home prices will go skyrocket high. But I think they're doing some political play with GP so that 5P will build one. >:D
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Happiness on December 02, 2019, 04:44:16 PM
IMHO, if TIC builds a Portola Springs Town Center, PS home prices will go skyrocket high. But I think they're doing some political play with GP so that 5P will build one. >:D
TIC tricked the PS buyers into anticipating the imminent opening of Portola Springs Town Center. Then they gave the land planned for Portola Springs Town Center to IUSD for an elementary school. Suckers.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 02, 2019, 08:29:02 PM
I like PS. Almost bought there 5 different times.

My only complaint is how far it is but as you get older that’s not as much as an issue.

Maybe I will retire there. :)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 03, 2019, 07:37:18 AM
Must have hit a nerve with @mountaineer, anyways there's been bashing on all villages on the forums, I've always hated on Eastwood, but Mety's Delano appreciated like crazy even though it's across from a trailer park =D, I think I've bashed all villages at some point on the forums, there's no perfect location, people will always find something wrong.

For the record I'm not even close to 1000 posts, in the real estate business, or a "professional poster"

As for living near a toll road/fwy/major street, I stand by that it's a health hazard, doesn't matter which Irvine village you live in, go back to my original post, I wrote it depends on how close your home is to the toll.  My quick google search gave me the below.  Is the 5 or 405 worse, yes, but the toll road isn't good for you either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/well/family/living-near-a-major-highway-tied-to-developmental-delays-in-children.html
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/29/how-the-air-quality-where-you-live-might-be-affecting-your-health/#1bc90d970175
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: irvine buyer on December 03, 2019, 08:23:36 AM
I'd be curious to see if there is a correlation between living on busy streets and life expectancy of the residents.  While I don't deny the scientific findings, I think of people living along busy streets in places like San Francisco and Manhattan where bumper to bumper traffic is normal.  Hot exhaust gases tend to rise and, considering the density of such areas, would impact residents living multiple stories above ground.  A vehicle produces more exhaust gas accelerating from stop than coasting along a freeway.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 03, 2019, 10:45:59 AM
Again - you're projecting completely skewed exaggerated "facts" about PS. The entire NORTHPARK neighborhood is within 250 meters of either 261, Portola Parkway, or Culver or Irvine Blvd. The entire place. And yet, Very few homes brush against the 250 meter perimeter from 241 in the Portola Springs. The remainder are much farther away than 250 meters.

Same with Laguna Altura. 100% of the neighborhood is within 180 meters of 133 where it actually has traffic going to Laguna. On the other side, most of the neighborhood is swallowed by the 250 perimeter of 405.

Go on and on, Quail Hill (most of it within 300 meters of 405 and 133), Cypress Village (no need to measure anything here), Eastwood (Portola Parkway, Irvine Blvd, Jeffrey literally border the place).

And yes, don't kid yourself and don't offer "delete post" blah blah. I don't need any deletion or adjustment of your posts. Go ahead and leave whatever you want. Posts in these forums DO end up putting fears into people's minds, and that's what's going on around the country, create fear (aka Fox News) and rule. And this is what you guys, the professional posters of these forums, are completely doing.

I also don't think the higher MR of PS truly changes the math equation that is $400/sqft vs ridiculous pricing that is Orchard Hills at $550/sqft. Truly? That's a 25-30% increase in the actual price of the home. Does PS truly has SUCH HIGH MR that it offsets the ridiculous pricing in OH or EW? Do the math for me and i'll gladly concede you're "right" on this one if the math truly works out the way you say it does.

Again, you're trying your best to prove your points. It's just not working out.

How much is MR and annual HOA at PS?  I'd like to see the math.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 03, 2019, 10:50:52 AM
I like PS. Almost bought there 5 different times.

My only complaint is how far it is but as you get older that’s not as much as an issue.

Maybe I will retire there. :)

Same here.  We almost bought in PS, but determined it was just too far.  I don't care how close In n Out in FR is...that's not how I choose a house location.  I need proximity to my job, everyday shopping, schools and kids' activities.  At the end of the day, PS didn't give me that.

Others may not value proximity/convenience as much as I do, so PS works out just fine.  To each their own. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: moc on December 03, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
I'm not sure why Mountaineer is so upset. We looked at a lot of homes in and outside of Irvine and we found the best fit floorplan/budget/etc in PS. PS has it's pros and cons like any other neighborhood. I agree there can be a lot of negativity on here sometimes, but if you love your home and your neighborhood (as I know we and many others do), then it's all good! I don't think anything I read on this forum had a real impact on our decision to buy in PS, it was just interesting to read others perspectives.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 03, 2019, 11:13:31 AM
Let’s be fair:
Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.
GP has many questionable issues.

Yes. Good to be wholesome and fair when talking about these "hazards" and not to pile it all up against PS or other certain neighborhood in the future, when the same "hazards" apply to other villages, even more significantly. As I mentioned, landfill is an issue for most of northeast Irvine. Freeways, that's an issue for the entire SoCal. Or if the area is NOT near a freeway, then you have another "issue" on your hand with it being "far from all freeways". It's an art to try to be fair, and just because you decided against PS, does not mean it should be bashed to oblivion.

It takes ONE TWEET to scare a whole nation of a certain ethnicity. Repeated posts about PS's "hazards" certainly scare away a lot of people. Who would want brain cancer for their child? And how can you possibly recover from such perceived notion on a neighborhood if you're a prospective buyer? I would have bought in OH had it been more fairly valued, and had an actual floorplan that had decent sized rooms not the size of closets at our price range (below 1.3) as I saw its shortcomings nothing short of PS or EW or GP, in different ways for each. Each of us have an equation to solve and it's hard as it is, we don't need unfounded "hazards" to add to the equation when the same hazards apply to all villages one way or another.

Just because a person here didn't happen to buy in any certain neighborhood, it does not give them the right to CREATE a sense of unfounded HEALTH HAZARDS for other villages based on non-factual claims. I'm glad for people pointing out the potential issues for each neighborhood, so we're all aware of what we're getting into. So for that, thank you!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 03, 2019, 11:20:45 AM
Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.

I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you.  Let's remember what the op asked, this wasn't a village war thread.  Maybe we should start one again **for entertainment purposes only**  ;D
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 03, 2019, 11:23:24 AM
I'd be curious to see if there is a correlation between living on busy streets and life expectancy of the residents.  While I don't deny the scientific findings, I think of people living along busy streets in places like San Francisco and Manhattan where bumper to bumper traffic is normal.  Hot exhaust gases tend to rise and, considering the density of such areas, would impact residents living multiple stories above ground.  A vehicle produces more exhaust gas accelerating from stop than coasting along a freeway.

This is a good point. While we try to live further away from busy roads and freeways, there are some cities just full pack of cars all over. Downtown LA, Manhattan NY, and many of the richest areas all over the world are like this. Do people live in those areas suffer with more illnesses? From what I've seen, more rural areas have been causing more illnesses than urban areas where there are more smog and chemicals. Am I wrong here?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 03, 2019, 11:29:56 AM
This is a good point. While we try to live further away from busy roads and freeways, there are some cities just full pack of cars all over. Downtown LA, Manhattan NY, and many of the richest areas all over the world are like this. Do people live in those areas suffer with more illnesses? From what I've seen, more rural areas have been causing more illnesses than urban areas where there are more smog and chemicals. Am I wrong here?

“PM2.5 is a fine particulate matter of diameter less than 2.5 micrometers. These tiny dust particles, when inhaled, lead to numerous health conditions including early death, and heart and lung related illnesses,” the study said.

https://therealdeal.com/2016/09/03/living-in-manhattan-is-amazing-except-for-the-air-quality/

Old article, but was the first on my google search. When we're all in EVs maybe all these studies will change and living by the freeway or in big cities will be fine.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 03, 2019, 11:32:11 AM
Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.

I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you.  Let's remember what the op asked, this wasn't a village war thread.

But it is.
I'd be curious to see if there is a correlation between living on busy streets and life expectancy of the residents.  While I don't deny the scientific findings, I think of people living along busy streets in places like San Francisco and Manhattan where bumper to bumper traffic is normal.  Hot exhaust gases tend to rise and, considering the density of such areas, would impact residents living multiple stories above ground.  A vehicle produces more exhaust gas accelerating from stop than coasting along a freeway.

This is a good point. While we try to live further away from busy roads and freeways, there are some cities just full pack of cars all over. Downtown LA, Manhattan NY, and many of the richest areas all over the world are like this. Do people live in those areas suffer with more illnesses? From what I've seen, more rural areas have been causing more illnesses than urban areas where there are more smog and chemicals. Am I wrong here?

Btw: it’s not a fair comparison. Study has shown living by a major fwy ain’t healthy especially if your pregnant.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 03, 2019, 11:33:18 AM
Like I said before, it’s great to point out 241. But be fair and include 5 and 405 and mention to OP that almost anywhere you go in Irvine, higher risks from highways and bust streets exist.

Obesity is the #1 driver of malignancy in this country. Proven over and over again. Rural people tend to be more obese in this country. I’m not saying I know all the answers but pretty confident obesity is driving most of it.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 03, 2019, 11:38:38 AM
Like I said before, it’s great to point out 241. But be fair and include 5 and 405 and mention to OP that almost anywhere you go in Irvine, higher risks from highways and bust streets exist.

Obesity is the #1 driver of malignancy in this country. Proven over and over again. Rural people tend to be more obese in this country. I’m not saying I know all the answers but pretty confident obesity is driving most of it.

That’s a different subject, but I agree. Be careful talking about obesity/fat on TalkIrvine. Someone took it the wrong way even though it was a joke. Unbelievable! They might cry to mommy!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 03, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
Kind of makes sense. People in those cities are surely walking around more whereas people who live in OC or more rural areas are always sitting driving cars, not moving much. So even with more smog or dust particles, it's more likely they're burning more unnecessary fat from more urban areas.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 03, 2019, 12:12:58 PM
Kind of off topic, but talking about malignancy/cancer and obesity/fat is reminding me of someone...
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 03, 2019, 04:01:04 PM
Again - you're projecting completely skewed exaggerated "facts" about PS. The entire NORTHPARK neighborhood is within 250 meters of either 261, Portola Parkway, or Culver or Irvine Blvd. The entire place. And yet, Very few homes brush against the 250 meter perimeter from 241 in the Portola Springs. The remainder are much farther away than 250 meters.

Same with Laguna Altura. 100% of the neighborhood is within 180 meters of 133 where it actually has traffic going to Laguna. On the other side, most of the neighborhood is swallowed by the 250 perimeter of 405.

Go on and on, Quail Hill (most of it within 300 meters of 405 and 133), Cypress Village (no need to measure anything here), Eastwood (Portola Parkway, Irvine Blvd, Jeffrey literally border the place).

And yes, don't kid yourself and don't offer "delete post" blah blah. I don't need any deletion or adjustment of your posts. Go ahead and leave whatever you want. Posts in these forums DO end up putting fears into people's minds, and that's what's going on around the country, create fear (aka Fox News) and rule. And this is what you guys, the professional posters of these forums, are completely doing.

I also don't think the higher MR of PS truly changes the math equation that is $400/sqft vs ridiculous pricing that is Orchard Hills at $550/sqft. Truly? That's a 25-30% increase in the actual price of the home. Does PS truly has SUCH HIGH MR that it offsets the ridiculous pricing in OH or EW? Do the math for me and i'll gladly concede you're "right" on this one if the math truly works out the way you say it does.

Again, you're trying your best to prove your points. It's just not working out.

How much is MR and annual HOA at PS?  I'd like to see the math.

I compared the MR and annual HOA for a home in PS vs a similar home in CV.  A 3 bedroom/3 bath home; ~2,200 sq ft; built in 2015-16. 

The PS Home sold in Nov 2019 for $935K.  The CV home sold in Aug 2019 for $1,055M.  To compare apples to apples, the PS home should be discounted by ~$60K for the additional $2,400 in MR and HOA expenses every year.  (assuming a rate of return of 4%/year).

That PS home is worth 935K - 60K = $875K (~$398/sq ft)
The CV home is worth 1.055M (~$480/sq ft)

These are only 2 sales, so it's risky to draw any actual conclusions, but people were willing to pay ~20% more to live in the CV house vs the PS house. I'm sure that gap might be wider if you replace CV with SG or OH.  I think the punchline is that if you buy in PS for the mid-$400s/sqft, the economic value might not be there. 

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 03, 2019, 06:07:37 PM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 10:27:10 AM
A question since we're on PS homes topic.

Why are these homes so inexpensive (compare to other Irvine homes)?

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/67-Distant-Star-92618/home/45383351
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/Cypress-Village-Trl-92618/home/45383343
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/53-Distant-Star-92618/home/51684319

There are all around $350/sq. ft. I know they are attached, but the same size (or smaller) condos like Delano at EW were selling $200k more expensive. Any idea? I'm asking purely out of curiosity not to join the herd mentality that mountaineer is talking about nor to bash PS.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 04, 2019, 11:02:14 AM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 11:14:55 AM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance

SFRs in PS has $134 HOA fees. Maybe that's what mountaineer is talking about. Lambert Ranch has a high HOA (I think $380) although they don't have MR. I guess for the sake of comparison those two are a pretty fair one.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: AW on December 04, 2019, 12:05:15 PM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance
Looking at those links at satellite view, cv is detached, ps is attached, I don’t think those are good comps imo
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 01:45:27 PM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance
Looking at those links at satellite view, cv is detached, ps is attached, I don’t think those are good comps imo

I believe that PS home is Legado. Only a certain plan has an attached garage, not the living spaces. Not sure why, but they built it like that. Legado is usually counted as a detached condo.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 04, 2019, 02:14:07 PM
Look at Redfin sold in last 3 months, condo, 3 bedroom data:

roughly 130 sold

Below the median line of $/sqft (below $457/sqft), we have:
- Woodbury 12
- PS 9
- GP 9

Above the median line of $/sqft (above $457/sqft), we have:
- GP 1
- Woodbury 2
- PS 5

Can you tell me what this data says? I'll leave it to your imagination.
Again, broken record here, but herd mentality against PS exists, and it is NOT backed up by any factual data. Just fuzzy math, fuzzy logic.

I do healthcare data research. You can literally connect toe nail fungus to emphysema, if you carefully "slice" the data however you want it (also seen in today's politics with gerrymandering). That's why statisticians get paid what they get paid, to point out the fallacies in such conclusions. That data above is raw, per Redfin, on SOLD homes with that specific criteria.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 04, 2019, 03:13:02 PM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance
Looking at those links at satellite view, cv is detached, ps is attached, I don’t think those are good comps imo

I believe that PS home is Legado. Only a certain plan has an attached garage, not the living spaces. Not sure why, but they built it like that. Legado is usually counted as a detached condo.

Great research! Pass along the spreadsheet. (Wink)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
Look at Redfin sold in last 3 months, condo, 3 bedroom data:

roughly 130 sold

Below the median line of $/sqft (below $457/sqft), we have:
- Woodbury 12
- PS 9
- GP 9

Above the median line of $/sqft (above $457/sqft), we have:
- GP 1
- Woodbury 2
- PS 5

Can you tell me what this data says? I'll leave it to your imagination.
Again, broken record here, but herd mentality against PS exists, and it is NOT backed up by any factual data. Just fuzzy math, fuzzy logic.

I do healthcare data research. You can literally connect toe nail fungus to emphysema, if you carefully "slice" the data however you want it (also seen in today's politics with gerrymandering). That's why statisticians get paid what they get paid, to point out the fallacies in such conclusions. That data above is raw, per Redfin, on SOLD homes with that specific criteria.

To get real specific, is that data counting new constructions? Because only PS and GP are the ones with new homes from the list you provided which might drive higher numbers of sold homes in a shorter amount of time in general. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 04, 2019, 03:40:05 PM
Then feel free to just compare PS and GP only if you want new construction comparisons.

Anybody can pull the data from redfin to a CSV file and sort it through Excel. High-finance can also do it.

It's all sold homes, new construction or not.

And to answer your question, Woodbury (which is NOT a new construction) has MORE sold below $457/sqft than the two villages (PS and GP) with new construction. I guess that defeats your argument.

PS also has more sold above the $457/sqft than GP and Woodbury.

Again, I also "sliced" the data, but did it raw without any pre-purpose to do it this way. You're more than welcome to try different criteria and see what the data shows. This is just one slice. I just wanted to show you that comparing two homes and doing some math trickery with 4% return and MR this and MR that and 65k minus is not really a valid showcase of a village's performance.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: AW on December 04, 2019, 03:46:10 PM
Here we go again. Some fuzzy math and made up assumptions from non economics majors.

My HOA at PS is 135. CV HOA per Redfin is 135.

MR difference between the two is 0.09%. That amounts to about 900 dollars per year for a 1 mil house.

How is that again turned into the PS house being valued 65k less? Over what time? 65 years?

Again. Same herd mentality here against PS. Pile up without actual facts. Just fuzzy logic.

Yes. PS is a value village because you can find value in it. Less than 400 per sqft. To a lot of us, even with gross incomes of 300-400k, that sounds very appetizing. Again, most of us looking for “value” have no foreign cash to put down. And to me, that’s the most impressive part of ANY “value” village, is that the fabric of the place is made up of people who actually have some perspective left. I like to be neighbors with people who don’t blindly follow the herd to some “premium” village driven meritlessly toward “premium-ness” due to FCB and these forums. I want my kids to grow up among neighbors who make 200-300k, yet drive an Accord and an Altima and an Acura at its best. That’s pretty rare to find in OH or SG. Porsche after Porsche after MB wagons and the worst among the cars being a Tesla. It’s refreshing to live in a place with some perspective left in its people.

While I don't know exactly where you live, my math wasn't as fuzzy as you think.  Here are the houses I compared:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/146-Brambles-92618/home/143916127

HOA = $233/month


https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/82-Scented-Violet-92620/home/58557054

HOA = $135/month


-MR info was taken off public records.
-4% rate of return is pretty standard for forecasting
-BTW - While I'm not an econ major, I do work in high-finance
Looking at those links at satellite view, cv is detached, ps is attached, I don’t think those are good comps imo

I believe that PS home is Legado. Only a certain plan has an attached garage, not the living spaces. Not sure why, but they built it like that. Legado is usually counted as a detached condo.
Mls listed the ps as 1 common wall, cv as no common wall, (and 2 Hoa’s vs 1), different products I think
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 03:48:40 PM
So why are PS homes a little bit less priced than other villages? Or is that a myth also?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 03:51:27 PM
And to answer your question, Woodbury (which is NOT a new construction) has MORE sold below $457/sqft than the two villages (PS and GP) with new construction. I guess that defeats your argument.

Not really. Just because Woodbury has more sold, it doesn't mean it should have more new homes. It just shows more Woodbury homes got sold last 3 months.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 04, 2019, 04:13:29 PM
Mety: you were the one asking for apples to apples comparison, not apples (new construction) to oranges (woodbury, older construction). That was my response and it's a valid sentence.

Now if you want to compare apples (new construction PS) vs apples (new construction GP), then be my guest.
Same number of homes in PS and GP sold below $457/sqft
More number of homes in PS sold above $457/sqft compared to GP
In the last 3 months, condo, 3 bedroom.

No matter how I answer with data, you have another counter-statement that confuses me.

PS homes, based on this data, are NOT being sold as cheaper $/sqft compared to GP. In fact PS sale transactions are higher than GP in terms of $/sqft.
PS homes, based on this data, are NOT being sold as cheaper $/sqft compared to Woodbury. In fact PS sale transactions are higher than Woodbury in terms of $/sqft.

I honestly am not sure what else to say here.
Yes, this is just a slice of data. Like I said, I did not pre-meditate the slicing. It was just a random slice.
This trend may shift when looking at SFR, or above $1.25 range that is a smaller segment of the market due to affordability.
You may run the slice a different way and come with different data. And that's perfectly fine.
But since you listed all those PS homes on Redfin being sold so "cheap", and you keep asking why PS is so cheap, I wanted to run a slice similar to your search to see the SOLD data, not just listing data. Yes, delusional people in NorthPark list their homes for $550/sqft and they don't sell it at that listing. That doesn't mean anything. They're just feeding the frenzy of FCP and Asians who prefer these predominantly Asian neighborhoods.

Yes, PS homes being cheaper than other similar villages (GP, Woodbury) is a myth, when you look at homes sold in last 3 months (active market) in 2019, condo 3 bed room. That may change in future. But speaking of what's going on now, this is the trend.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 04, 2019, 04:17:33 PM
Alright. Pretty clear answer. Thanks!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 04, 2019, 04:44:23 PM
Same search
2019
Last 6 months (June 2019 to Dec 2019 - arguably peak of transactions in several years)
Condo, 3 bedroom, no other filter
SOLD homes (not what listings are - listings are driven by frenzy)
Median $/sqft is 468

Woodbury
21 (below $/sqft of 468) vs 4 (above $/sqft of 468)
ratio 5.25

GP
20 (below median) vs 4 (above median)
ratio 5

QH
6 (below median) vs 3 (above median)
ratio 2 (worse than PS ratio)


Northpark
6 (below 468) vs 3 (above 468)
ratio 2 (worse than PS ratio)


PS
24 (below median) vs 14 (above median)
ratio 1.7

Again, the last 6 months data show clearly that PS is not cheaper than Woodbury or Great Park, on this specific search, which is a pretty large chunk of the market. Looking at ratios of above vs below median, PS is on par with QH and NorthPark when you look at the ratios.



And the higher tier is obviously below:
CV 5 (below 468) vs 19 (above 468)
SG 0 vs 20
OH 0 vs 11
EW 0 vs 6
Laguna Altura 0 vs 6

Clearly SG is the winner here, mainly driven by the performance of its Elementary School, my guess is. OH driven by the FCB, obviously to anyone that walks or lives there (I happen to go there twice daily to pick up/drop off).
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 04, 2019, 05:08:01 PM
Same search, this time likely encompassing most SFRs and a few larger condos
Last 6 months
homes > 2500 sqft
no price filter (obviously includes 2-3-4 mil houses in OH)
no other filters
median 461

Northpark 12 (below the median $/sqft) vs 3 (above the median $/sqft) (ratio 4)
Woodbury 14 (below) vs 5 (above) (ratio 3-4)
Northwood 28 (below) vs 8 (above) (ratio 3-4)
PS 6 (below) vs 4 (above) (ratio 1.5) doing better than Woodbury, NorthPark, Northwood
GP 15 (below) vs 15 (above) (ratio 1) doing better than Woodbury, NorthPark, Northwood

CV 2 vs 5
EW 3 vs 13
SG 5 vs 11
OH 3 vs 34
Laguna Altura 0 vs 4


last 6 months
homes > 2500 sqft
priced below 1.75 mil
median 443

Northwood 24 vs 9 (ratio 2.66)
PS 5 vs 2 (ratio 2.5) I guess you can say PS is in bottom quartile here on SFR < 1.75 mil compared to GP, but similar to Woodbury - one search criteria finally where you can actually say PS is "cheaper" than the rest of villages, which again, in some of our minds, it's a steal rather than a poor performance as PS overall is middle-of-the-pack performing on all other searches here.
Woodbury 13 vs 6 (ratio 2.1) not much better performance than PS but yes, somewhat better.
Northpark 9 vs 5 (ratio ~2)
GP 12 vs 16 (ratio 0.75)

SG 2 vs 12
QH 1 vs 6
EW 1 vs 15
OH 1 vs 12
Laguna Altura 0 vs 2
CV 0 vs 7

Again, I've sliced the data so many ways to see if I can catch PS doing poorer than others. Yes, finally, PS is doing worse than other in the very last specific search. And you win! But truly, please look at data before arguing one village is doing poorer than the others.

As others have said, PS has room to grow. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Who knows? But one thing for sure is that if you're looking for SFR below 1.75, SG, CV, EW, OH below 1.75 are all trading at their peaks. And they're not a bargain and not a sure thing to appreciate drastically more. We all wish we could buy in 2013 or 2014 but it's 2019 and peaks always end up dropping, as they have from 2018 to 2019. In almost any search criteria I put in, NorthPark, Northwood, and Woodbury are in the bottom quartile and definitely in the bottom half (and please don't accuse me of bashing any of these, I absolutely loved Northpark and Woodbury as neighborhoods, miss NorthPark on a daily basis, but didn't have what we wanted and the trend was worrisome on whether it'd appreciate or devalue). And that's the tale of a "drop" which would happen to all of the new villages (PS, GP, EW, OH, SG, CV) in 10 years. Question is where along this rollercoaster do you want to buy in, at the peak, while it's undervalued and may peak (or may not), or during the inevitable fall (NorthPark, Northwood, Woodbury)

And this is just one analysis based on data. I'm probably wrong in form or shape, who knows. But at least I am quoting you raw independent data, not my opinion.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 04, 2019, 05:30:59 PM
It's not just pure cuts of data, anyone can do that as mentioned by mountaineer.  The true analysis comes in when you are overlaying qualitative factors on top of the raw data like the following factors...

Size of the home (smaller homes trade for a higher price per SF, think of this as the Costco buying in bulk factor)

Attached versus Detached (detached homes trade for a higher price per SF compared to attached homes so if a village has more attached closings and another village which has more detached closings that'll throw the data off)

High mello roos versus low mello roos and high HOA vesus low HOA (properties with lower HOA and mello roos will tend to trade at a higher price SF than ones with high HOA and mello roos)

Lot size and location premiums (homes with larger and/or more desirable lots will trade for higher prices so if one village has more desirable lots than it will trade above average...think if turtle rock and turtle ridge)

Turnkey versus non-turnkey (homes that are turnkey and/or fully remodeled will trade for higher prices)

Single story vs two story vs three story (the less stories the higher price per SF)

Floor plans (newer open floor plans are more desirable the older compartmentalized ones)

I've always found that residential real estate is a both a mix of art and science or qualitative and quantitative factors.

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Happiness on December 04, 2019, 05:43:59 PM
It's not just pure cuts of data, anyone can do that as mentioned by mountaineer.  The true analysis comes in when you are overlaying qualitative factors on top of the raw data like the following factors...

Size of the home (smaller homes trade for a higher price per SF, think of this as the Costco buying in bulk factor)

Attached versus Detached (detached homes trade for a higher price per SF compared to attached homes so if a village has more attached closings and another village which has more detached closings that'll throw the data off)

High mello roos versus low mello roos and high HOA vesus low HOA (properties with lower HOA and mello roos will tend to trade at a higher price SF than ones with high HOA and mello roos)

Lot size and location premiums (homes with larger and/or more desirable lots will trade for higher prices so if one village has more desirable lots than it will trade above average...think if turtle rock and turtle ridge)

Turnkey versus non-turnkey (homes that are turnkey and/or fully remodeled will trade for higher prices)

Single story vs two story vs three story (the less stories the higher price per SF)

Floor plans (newer open floor plans are more desirable the older compartmentalized ones)

I've always found that residential real estate is a both a mix of art and science or qualitative and quantitative factors.

Another big factor is the availability of new construction in a certain neighborhood which sets a ceiling on resale prices. This is a problem that has plagued Portola Springs resales for years because  of TIC marketing/pricing strategies.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 04, 2019, 09:27:48 PM
It's not just pure cuts of data, anyone can do that as mentioned by mountaineer.  The true analysis comes in when you are overlaying qualitative factors on top of the raw data like the following factors...

Size of the home (smaller homes trade for a higher price per SF, think of this as the Costco buying in bulk factor)

Attached versus Detached (detached homes trade for a higher price per SF compared to attached homes so if a village has more attached closings and another village which has more detached closings that'll throw the data off)

High mello roos versus low mello roos and high HOA vesus low HOA (properties with lower HOA and mello roos will tend to trade at a higher price SF than ones with high HOA and mello roos)

Lot size and location premiums (homes with larger and/or more desirable lots will trade for higher prices so if one village has more desirable lots than it will trade above average...think if turtle rock and turtle ridge)

Turnkey versus non-turnkey (homes that are turnkey and/or fully remodeled will trade for higher prices)

Single story vs two story vs three story (the less stories the higher price per SF)

Floor plans (newer open floor plans are more desirable the older compartmentalized ones)

I've always found that residential real estate is a both a mix of art and science or qualitative and quantitative factors.

Some people only believe in data, even if the context, sample or time measurement has flaws.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 04, 2019, 11:44:37 PM
It's not just pure cuts of data, anyone can do that as mentioned by mountaineer.  The true analysis comes in when you are overlaying qualitative factors on top of the raw data like the following factors...

Size of the home (smaller homes trade for a higher price per SF, think of this as the Costco buying in bulk factor)

Attached versus Detached (detached homes trade for a higher price per SF compared to attached homes so if a village has more attached closings and another village which has more detached closings that'll throw the data off)

High mello roos versus low mello roos and high HOA vesus low HOA (properties with lower HOA and mello roos will tend to trade at a higher price SF than ones with high HOA and mello roos)

Lot size and location premiums (homes with larger and/or more desirable lots will trade for higher prices so if one village has more desirable lots than it will trade above average...think if turtle rock and turtle ridge)

Turnkey versus non-turnkey (homes that are turnkey and/or fully remodeled will trade for higher prices)

Single story vs two story vs three story (the less stories the higher price per SF)

Floor plans (newer open floor plans are more desirable the older compartmentalized ones)

I've always found that residential real estate is a both a mix of art and science or qualitative and quantitative factors.

Another big factor is the availability of new construction in a certain neighborhood which sets a ceiling on resale prices. This is a problem that has plagued Portola Springs resales for years because  of TIC marketing/pricing strategies.

Yes, new home construction can have a big factor on resale homes in a village especially if you have a lot of unsold inventory like you do in Altair and Cadence Park in the higher end market and since buyers know that builders willing to negotiate on standing inventory home they'll use to their advantage when bidding on resale homes.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 04, 2019, 11:52:11 PM
It's not just pure cuts of data, anyone can do that as mentioned by mountaineer.  The true analysis comes in when you are overlaying qualitative factors on top of the raw data like the following factors...

Size of the home (smaller homes trade for a higher price per SF, think of this as the Costco buying in bulk factor)

Attached versus Detached (detached homes trade for a higher price per SF compared to attached homes so if a village has more attached closings and another village which has more detached closings that'll throw the data off)

High mello roos versus low mello roos and high HOA vesus low HOA (properties with lower HOA and mello roos will tend to trade at a higher price SF than ones with high HOA and mello roos)

Lot size and location premiums (homes with larger and/or more desirable lots will trade for higher prices so if one village has more desirable lots than it will trade above average...think if turtle rock and turtle ridge)

Turnkey versus non-turnkey (homes that are turnkey and/or fully remodeled will trade for higher prices)

Single story vs two story vs three story (the less stories the higher price per SF)

Floor plans (newer open floor plans are more desirable the older compartmentalized ones)

I've always found that residential real estate is a both a mix of art and science or qualitative and quantitative factors.

Some people only believe in data, even if the context, sample or time measurement has flaws.

Well, the data is the easy part so I'm not surprised.  Understand qualitative factors can be difficult and take a lot more time for people that are only closely tracking real estate on a regular basis.  Irvine is a tract home market where comp analysis is much easier than other cities where you have more unique homes but even if you have homes that are the same floor plans in Irvine you have to consider the factors that I mentioned earlier to approximate values.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: OCLuvr on December 05, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
PS pricing for all the haters; fresh from the boilers plate...$516/sq ft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/37-Small-Grv-92618/home/7203551?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 05, 2019, 08:06:37 PM
Thank you for sharing this. I'm sure everyone is tired of me, but PS is not what these forums make you believe it is. It's a nice neighborhood, among the other very nice villages in Irvine. It just deserves a little bit less criticism than what's said in these forums.

The few SFRs that Portola Springs has have some breathtaking views. Ours is similar in views and we only have neighbors to our left and right. Our row is elevated above the next row significantly (by 1 to 1.5 stories) and separated by a continuous row of 80-90 ft wide gardens, manicured and lighted meticulously by HOA. This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

I honestly can count, per minute, the number of cars on 241 in one hand, from 10 pm to 6 am. At rush hours, maybe it has 15-20 cars per minute passing by. This is what got me riled up, when 241 became the biggest source of hazard for PS in these forums, where arguably CV belongs to another galaxy when it comes to highway volume and proximity. The whole landfill / trash trucks / asphalt company / pesticide use / toxic plume / El Toro base affects the entire area one way or another, from OH to EW to SG to Woodbury to CV to GP to PP to Altair to PS. It's never ideal to be on the borders of the city, but that's life if you want newer construction within IUSD.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: WTTCHMN on December 05, 2019, 08:59:00 PM
PS pricing for all the haters; fresh from the boilers plate...$516/sq ft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/37-Small-Grv-92618/home/7203551?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link

IIRC, Small Grove was YF’s only exception for buying in PS.

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 06, 2019, 09:09:11 AM
PS pricing for all the haters; fresh from the boilers plate...$516/sq ft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/37-Small-Grv-92618/home/7203551?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link

Not sure who the haters are.  Just facts.  This CV home was sold also at $516/sq ft.  No large lot, no spectacular views.  There must be something else that people value that put this CV home at the same $/sqft as that premium-lot PS home. 

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/107-Island-Coral-92620/home/112723755

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: zubs on December 06, 2019, 09:13:24 AM
It's because PS is shoved into the extremities of Irvine & CV is closer to stuff.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 06, 2019, 09:21:34 AM
It's because PS is shoved into the extremities of Irvine & CV is closer to stuff.

That's exactly my point.  People value things differently and it appears more people DO value proximity/central location over a bigger home.  For those that value a large home at a value price, PS works. 

But part of the cost of living in PS is hidden in higher MR & slightly higher HOAs (except for Mountaineer's subdivision).  Your average $400/sq ft PS home should really be valued between $380-390 after factoring all the added expenses that don't get added to your house price. 

And just to be clear...I like PS a lot.  We considered buying a home in PS, but decided some of the other villages are a better fit for us. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 09:23:04 AM
PS pricing for all the haters; fresh from the boilers plate...$516/sq ft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/37-Small-Grv-92618/home/7203551?utm_source=ios_share&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=copy_link&utm_nooverride=1&utm_content=link

Not sure who the haters are.  Just facts.  This CV home was sold also at $516/sq ft.  No large lot, no spectacular views.  There must be something else that people value that put this CV home at the same $/sqft as that premium-lot PS home. 

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/107-Island-Coral-92620/home/112723755

Here we go again.
OH home, at $462.
Wonder if OH is worse than CV? Not sure. Let me check the data or "facts".
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/73-Derby-92602/home/147965665

Or wait, PS Condo, at $547/sqft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/64-Latitude-92618/home/21933240

Or wait, similar sized PS condo, at $522/sqft
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/155-Falcon-Rdg-92679/home/148425298

Wait, there must a be a reason people pay these prices for PS. Let me ponder. Oh, because PS is shoved in the extremities of Irvine.
The smaller the home, the higher than $/sqft.
Similar sized condo in PS is being sold at higher than your CV condo, as per above.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 09:26:53 AM
But CV is by the 5 fwy..
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 09:27:07 AM
Are there cons for PS in your opinion?  ND, TI talking negatively is definitely one in your eyes, you talked about the pros, what are the cons?  There's always a compromise. 

**I want to remind you that the op asked specifically about this area and not other parts of Irvine. I answered appropriately to his question and will not write a book stating its worse or better elsewhere, you could go on forever doing that. I could have gone on to say Altair has absurdly high MR, yet that's not what the op asked.  A broad environmental concern is living near a toll road, is that a incorrect statement?  I'll say it another way, living further from the toll road is probably better than living closer to it. Better?

Thank you for sharing this. I'm sure everyone is tired of me, but PS is not what these forums make you believe it is. It's a nice neighborhood, among the other very nice villages in Irvine. It just deserves a little bit less criticism than what's said in these forums.

The few SFRs that Portola Springs has have some breathtaking views. Ours is similar in views and we only have neighbors to our left and right. Our row is elevated above the next row significantly (by 1 to 1.5 stories) and separated by a continuous row of 80-90 ft wide gardens, manicured and lighted meticulously by HOA. This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

I honestly can count, per minute, the number of cars on 241 in one hand, from 10 pm to 6 am. At rush hours, maybe it has 15-20 cars per minute passing by. This is what got me riled up, when 241 became the biggest source of hazard for PS in these forums, where arguably CV belongs to another galaxy when it comes to highway volume and proximity. The whole landfill / trash trucks / asphalt company / pesticide use / toxic plume / El Toro base affects the entire area one way or another, from OH to EW to SG to Woodbury to CV to GP to PP to Altair to PS. It's never ideal to be on the borders of the city, but that's life if you want newer construction within IUSD.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 09:30:27 AM
But how about the noise and air pollution at cv. Is there a cell tower there?

Are there cons for PS in your opinion?  ND, TI talking negatively is definitely one in your eyes, you talked about the pros, what are the cons?  There's always a compromise. 

**I want to remind you that the op asked specifically about this area and not other parts of Irvine. I answered appropriately to his question and will not write a book stating its worse or better elsewhere, you could go on forever doing that. I could have gone on to say Altair has absurdly high MR, yet that's not what the op asked.  A broad environmental concern is living near a toll road, is that a incorrect statement?  I'll say it another way, living further from the toll road is probably better than living closer to it. Better?

Thank you for sharing this. I'm sure everyone is tired of me, but PS is not what these forums make you believe it is. It's a nice neighborhood, among the other very nice villages in Irvine. It just deserves a little bit less criticism than what's said in these forums.

The few SFRs that Portola Springs has have some breathtaking views. Ours is similar in views and we only have neighbors to our left and right. Our row is elevated above the next row significantly (by 1 to 1.5 stories) and separated by a continuous row of 80-90 ft wide gardens, manicured and lighted meticulously by HOA. This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

I honestly can count, per minute, the number of cars on 241 in one hand, from 10 pm to 6 am. At rush hours, maybe it has 15-20 cars per minute passing by. This is what got me riled up, when 241 became the biggest source of hazard for PS in these forums, where arguably CV belongs to another galaxy when it comes to highway volume and proximity. The whole landfill / trash trucks / asphalt company / pesticide use / toxic plume / El Toro base affects the entire area one way or another, from OH to EW to SG to Woodbury to CV to GP to PP to Altair to PS. It's never ideal to be on the borders of the city, but that's life if you want newer construction within IUSD.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
Are there cons for PS in your opinion?  ND, TI talking negatively is definitely one in your eyes, you talked about the pros, what are the cons?  There's always a compromise. 

**I want to remind you that the op asked specifically about this area and not other parts of Irvine. I answered appropriately to his question and will not write a book stating its worse or better elsewhere, you could go on forever doing that. I could have gone on to say Altair has absurdly high MR, yet that's not what the op asked.  A broad environmental concern is living near a toll road, is that a incorrect statement?  I'll say it another way, living further from the toll road is probably better than living closer to it. Better?

Thank you for sharing this. I'm sure everyone is tired of me, but PS is not what these forums make you believe it is. It's a nice neighborhood, among the other very nice villages in Irvine. It just deserves a little bit less criticism than what's said in these forums.

The few SFRs that Portola Springs has have some breathtaking views. Ours is similar in views and we only have neighbors to our left and right. Our row is elevated above the next row significantly (by 1 to 1.5 stories) and separated by a continuous row of 80-90 ft wide gardens, manicured and lighted meticulously by HOA. This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

I honestly can count, per minute, the number of cars on 241 in one hand, from 10 pm to 6 am. At rush hours, maybe it has 15-20 cars per minute passing by. This is what got me riled up, when 241 became the biggest source of hazard for PS in these forums, where arguably CV belongs to another galaxy when it comes to highway volume and proximity. The whole landfill / trash trucks / asphalt company / pesticide use / toxic plume / El Toro base affects the entire area one way or another, from OH to EW to SG to Woodbury to CV to GP to PP to Altair to PS. It's never ideal to be on the borders of the city, but that's life if you want newer construction within IUSD.

akkord: you're correct and factual. However, the bias in these forums, including how you manage to completely stay factual in order to not reveal your own bias against PS, is what's bothersome. You keep repeating you stand corrected, yet, the bias is unmistakably present in your statements. Bias, is a perceived phenomenon, and it's well perceived in these forums to be against PS, as repeated over and over again, when even limiting to this thread alone.

we all get it. I sifted through the data that SHOWED CLEARLY CV is selling higher than median price for any search criteria I did. CV is selling better than OH in the size of homes CV has. CV is selling better than QH. However, as USCTrojanCPA very brilliantly has pointed out, you CANNOT just keep simplifying the trends based on "PS is crap" "241 is near" "landfill this" to justify the trends in Irvine. CV is selling more because of other data points and other qualitative measures. Part of that may be the reputation, part of that may be the Asian community that simply prefers to be close together, part of that may be the proximity to certain Asian shops, etc. For example, my in-laws simply do not want to be in ANY VILLAGE including OH if the one and only criteria is not met: WALKING DISTANCE to a shopping mall.

All that gets me riled up is that you and others in these forums SIMPLIFY in the most dumb way the reasoning behind trends to "health hazards" and "extremes of Irvine". NorthPark used to extremes of Irvine, and look how central it is now.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 09:44:55 AM
This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

So PS was cheaper than OH for the type of home you wanted, got it!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 09:46:07 AM
I’m trying to be fair. But people don’t want to talk about CV. One side conversation.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 09:48:50 AM
This, built after 2010 (which is what we wanted), didn't exist in any other village, except for OH, and for this, OH wanted at least 1.4 to 1.6 times the price.

So PS was cheaper than OH for the type of home you wanted, got it!

Again, your attitude.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 09:52:47 AM
Look there's is not wrong with buying a home 1.4 to 1.6 times cheaper, but you're going on about bias on pricing...yet you yourself chose to buy a cheaper home which is exactly what some people are alluding to.

You also stated my comment triggered you so I'm here to defend myself, you start a brand new thread on negativity comments on PS and I would probably never have commented, I know numerous people that live in PS, I have nothing against it, but like I said if you draw me into a thread I'll keep on typing. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 09:59:40 AM
My "attitude" only started after you stated my post below got to you. I had 0 attitude below, just a non bias statement to a question. 

Are there any environmental concerns in Portola Springs other than an FBI shooting range to the south?

The only environmental concern is the Toll Road depending on how close the property is to it.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 06, 2019, 10:07:40 AM
It's because PS is shoved into the extremities of Irvine & CV is closer to stuff.

That's exactly my point.  People value things differently and it appears more people DO value proximity/central location over a bigger home.  For those that value a large home at a value price, PS works. 

But part of the cost of living in PS is hidden in higher MR & slightly higher HOAs (except for Mountaineer's subdivision).  Your average $400/sq ft PS home should really be valued between $380-390 after factoring all the added expenses that don't get added to your house price. 

And just to be clear...I like PS a lot.  We considered buying a home in PS, but decided some of the other villages are a better fit for us.

https://www.redfin.com/city/9361/CA/Irvine/filter/min-beds=3,max-beds=3,min-sqft=2k-sqft,max-sqft=2.25k-sqft,min-year-built=2014,max-year-built=2016,hoa=300,include=sold-1yr

Let's try and look at this cut of sales:

-3 bedroom homes, built b/w 2014 and 2016, sold within the past year.  i also tried to select detached properties by filtering out any homes with HOA's > $300/month.

- It's a small sample size, but here are the results of those sales for PS, CV and OH:

- PS:  5 sales @ $359/sq ft (average days on market = 105)
- CV:  15 sales @ $472/sq ft (average days = 193)
- OH:  2 sales @ $594/sq ft (average days = 211)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:11:36 AM
Yeah, Trump also says he has no ill-will or attitude toward half the things he riles people up on. That doesn't absolve you of your clear bias. People hide in these forums and think they can type away whatever they want and remain uncontested. As it clearly has been the case, you've been contested not by me, but by others, and you just like to drown out being contested by staying "True to facts" about 241's health hazards.

You are in the fringes and extremes of the everyday life, hiding in these forums as your defense. If you wanted to have this conversation out in the open in person, you'd see how easily you'd be drowned out by others' responses. The reality is when in person, you'd out-loud tell someone 241 is the "main" health hazard of living in PS, people would burst out laughing and tell you to look at where you live, LA, OC, filled with highways and tell you to go live in Montana. That's the reality of the response you'd get. But here, you keep typing away one defense after another.

And somebody decided to not give you your uncontested forum anymore on this one topic.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:13:54 AM
It's because PS is shoved into the extremities of Irvine & CV is closer to stuff.

That's exactly my point.  People value things differently and it appears more people DO value proximity/central location over a bigger home.  For those that value a large home at a value price, PS works. 

But part of the cost of living in PS is hidden in higher MR & slightly higher HOAs (except for Mountaineer's subdivision).  Your average $400/sq ft PS home should really be valued between $380-390 after factoring all the added expenses that don't get added to your house price. 

And just to be clear...I like PS a lot.  We considered buying a home in PS, but decided some of the other villages are a better fit for us.

https://www.redfin.com/city/9361/CA/Irvine/filter/min-beds=3,max-beds=3,min-sqft=2k-sqft,max-sqft=2.25k-sqft,min-year-built=2014,max-year-built=2016,hoa=300,include=sold-1yr

Let's try and look at this cut of sales:

-3 bedroom homes, built b/w 2014 and 2016, sold within the past year.  i also tried to select detached properties by filtering out any homes with HOA's > $300/month.

- It's a small sample size, but here are the results of those sales for PS, CV and OH:

- PS:  5 sales @ $359/sq ft (average days on market = 105)
- CV:  15 sales @ $472/sq ft (average days = 193)
- OH:  2 sales @ $594/sq ft (average days = 211)

Thanks. I did all this search and posted on prior pages. It clearly is obvious CV and OH price per sqft is higher than PS. But PS falls in the middle of the pack compared to GP to PP to Woodbury (slightly older), etc. No need to re-post the data I've posted. This is not a battle between CV sales and PS sales. There is no argument there. EW and SG sell better than CV even per my data.

And by the way, those search criteria are highly manicured and restrictive. Village performance is not based on such strict data collection. The search I did is much less restricted and lets the data speak for itself. And that's the other issue, is that people like to "slice" things however they want. This is clearly at play when people compare "TWO" singular sales, one from xyz village to one from abc village and start to make assumptions about the whole performance, ending the post with "well there must be a reason why someone paid this much for xyz house over abc house".

Let the data speak for itself and leave the restrictions out. Look at Condos on their own, sales in last 6 months, etc. Look at SFR on their own. I did that search. I clearly note and concede the trends, whatever they are, whether they're in favor of PS or not, whether they're in favor of Woodbury or not.

This is a not a village war thread. This is about the biases you all seem to repeat over and over again.

I honestly have nothing else to say. You win!

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 10:18:09 AM
The reality is when in person, you'd out-loud tell someone 241 is the "main" health hazard of living in PS, people would burst out laughing and tell you to look at where you live, LA, OC, filled with highways and tell you to go live in Montana.

What's the main health hazard in PS if not the Toll Road since I'm being laughed at, you must have another opinion?  If all else equal would you pick the house closer to the Toll Road or further away?

I'm still waiting for your list of cons of PS?  You've addressed a bunch of my posts, but haven't my question yet. 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:20:24 AM
The reality is when in person, you'd out-loud tell someone 241 is the "main" health hazard of living in PS, people would burst out laughing and tell you to look at where you live, LA, OC, filled with highways and tell you to go live in Montana.

What's the main health hazard in PS if not the Toll Road since I'm being laughed at, you must have another opinion?  If all else equal would you pick the house closer to the Toll Road or further away?

I'm still waiting for your list of cons of PS?  You've addressed a bunch of my posts, but haven't my question yet.

Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: zubs on December 06, 2019, 10:26:41 AM
Is Northpark more expensive then PS?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:28:14 AM
Is Northpark more expensive then PS?

Go do a search and look at $/sqft. I am not here to analyze the trends over and over again. It was posted on my prior posts, the performance of all villages on SALES in the last 6 months. You can do your own search. But comparing two singular sales against each other absolutely means nothing. Lazy analysis is worse than no analysis. And then you have the qualitative factors that USCTrojanCPA pointed out, that will not be present on any sales data. Proximity to a shopping center walking distance is one that my in-laws will not live without. Community make-up, parks, hill vs no hill, lot views, all of that makes or breaks it for each buyer.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 06, 2019, 10:31:43 AM
Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.

I got the first person to ignore me on TI.   >:D

I'm still sticking by the fact that the Toll Road is probably the worse environmental concern that I know of. 

And I never disagreed with this guy/girl that living near the 5 or 405 was better, where did I say that.  In fact I think it's way worse and would never choose to live close to either. 

Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.
I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you. 

I would say all freeways are an environmental concern, the noise that would come with it is bad enough for me to avoid any homes near any freeways or major streets.  This would be for all Irvine homes. 

As for living near a toll road/fwy/major street, I stand by that it's a health hazard, doesn't matter which Irvine village you live in, go back to my original post, I wrote it depends on how close your home is to the toll.  My quick google search gave me the below.  Is the 5 or 405 worse, yes, but the toll road isn't good for you either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/well/family/living-near-a-major-highway-tied-to-developmental-delays-in-children.html
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/29/how-the-air-quality-where-you-live-might-be-affecting-your-health/#1bc90d970175
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: zubs on December 06, 2019, 10:32:53 AM
I thought since you had all the knowledge done already you would have a quick answer.  I don't really care about this topic.  Most of the time, I just write shit to get reactions.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:34:10 AM
Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.

I got the first person to ignore me on TI.   >:D

I'm still sticking by the fact that the Toll Road is probably the worse environmental concern that I know of. 

And I never disagreed with this guy/girl that living near the 5 or 405 was better, where did I say that.  In fact I think it's way worse and would never choose to live close to either. 

Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.
I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you. 

I would say all freeways are an environmental concern, the noise that would come with it is bad enough for me to avoid any homes near any freeways or major streets.  This would be for all Irvine homes. 

As for living near a toll road/fwy/major street, I stand by that it's a health hazard, doesn't matter which Irvine village you live in, go back to my original post, I wrote it depends on how close your home is to the toll.  My quick google search gave me the below.  Is the 5 or 405 worse, yes, but the toll road isn't good for you either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/well/family/living-near-a-major-highway-tied-to-developmental-delays-in-children.html
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/29/how-the-air-quality-where-you-live-might-be-affecting-your-health/#1bc90d970175

great, got it! thanks for your clarifications.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: mountaineer on December 06, 2019, 10:34:44 AM
I thought since you had all the knowledge done already you would have a quick answer.  I don't really care about this topic.  Most of the time, I just write shit to get reactions.

Yeah, again a bunch of children in these forums. Type away. That's the way this country is being run actually. Reactions. Great stuff!
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: zubs on December 06, 2019, 10:35:44 AM
Children are great.  I welcome you into our world.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 06, 2019, 10:36:07 AM
The reality is when in person, you'd out-loud tell someone 241 is the "main" health hazard of living in PS, people would burst out laughing and tell you to look at where you live, LA, OC, filled with highways and tell you to go live in Montana.

What's the main health hazard in PS if not the Toll Road since I'm being laughed at, you must have another opinion?  If all else equal would you pick the house closer to the Toll Road or further away?

I'm still waiting for your list of cons of PS?  You've addressed a bunch of my posts, but haven't my question yet.

Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.

Every village has it's flaw.  I don't believe PS has any any legit health hazards, however it is probably considered a higher fire danger area.  The heath hazard topic lies squarely with the GP neighborhoods due to being on a superfund site.  Being next to the 241, or any freeway for that matter, can't be THAT bad.  Half of LA is next to at least one freeway or another. 

I'd also like to remind everyone that PS has some great value for those that really want their kids in Portola HS.  That shouldn't be understated.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 10:57:07 AM
How are the new ones at PS doing (Hillside, Bluffs, and Highlands)?

Here is the quote I got from villagesofirvine.com

"VILLAGE OF THE YEAR
Portola Springs, the best kept secret in Irvine, is now the Village of the Year according to the Irvine Standard. Living here will connect you with everything you need and love, including: 
-New Loma Ridge Elementary, a state-of-the-art facility, emphasizing in the latest and greatest technology
-New Portola Springs Community Park, a public 32-acre hilltop park with sports courts, playgrounds and community center
-Connected to nature with spectacular views of Loma Ridge and access to miles of trails
-Nearby shopping, dining and entertainment at Irvine Spectrum Center and more just minutes from home"

Hey, mountaineer, did you write this?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:00:38 AM
How are the new ones at PS doing (Hillside, Bluffs, and Highlands)?

Here is the quote I got from villagesofirvine.com

"VILLAGE OF THE YEAR
Portola Springs, the best kept secret in Irvine, is now the Village of the Year according to the Irvine Standard. Living here will connect you with everything you need and love, including: 
-New Loma Ridge Elementary, a state-of-the-art facility, emphasizing in the latest and greatest technology
-New Portola Springs Community Park, a public 32-acre hilltop park with sports courts, playgrounds and community center
-Connected to nature with spectacular views of Loma Ridge and access to miles of trails
-Nearby shopping, dining and entertainment at Irvine Spectrum Center and more just minutes from home"

Hey, mountaineer, did you write this?

Mety: What’s your thoughts about CV?
Really close the the busiest freeway in California.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 11:13:00 AM
How are the new ones at PS doing (Hillside, Bluffs, and Highlands)?

Here is the quote I got from villagesofirvine.com

"VILLAGE OF THE YEAR
Portola Springs, the best kept secret in Irvine, is now the Village of the Year according to the Irvine Standard. Living here will connect you with everything you need and love, including: 
-New Loma Ridge Elementary, a state-of-the-art facility, emphasizing in the latest and greatest technology
-New Portola Springs Community Park, a public 32-acre hilltop park with sports courts, playgrounds and community center
-Connected to nature with spectacular views of Loma Ridge and access to miles of trails
-Nearby shopping, dining and entertainment at Irvine Spectrum Center and more just minutes from home"

Hey, mountaineer, did you write this?

Mety: What’s your thoughts about CV?
Really close the the busiest freeway in California.

I've said this before, but "my thoughts" are I think CV homes closer to Trabuco where the freeway noise is not heard are OK. I've done a test actually to see how far I had to be from the I-5 to be able to have minimal noise in "my ears" (very subjective, right?). I started to hear less from around the elementary school.

Now, I haven't done an accurate test with a machine like this to see the air quality.
https://www.grainger.com/product/20Z194?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5_bXnduh5gIVrx6tBh2A2QluEAQYAiABEgIpXvD_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI5_bXnduh5gIVrx6tBh2A2QluEAQYAiABEgIpXvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916686277!!!g!82166347917!


But I have run with https://breezometer.com/. And the air quality from CV is just as fine as other Irvine areas. Yes, living near 241 is just fine according this air quality detector. What I have found though was that overall Irvine air was not as good as I thought.

For me though, I once lived where kids were racing from 12am-4am (yes, DJ) so I'm done with living near the busy road. It's not for the air quality I'm choosing not to buy near the busy road but to be able to sleep without hearing car exhausts you never thought existed.

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:22:26 AM
How can the air quality be the same with freeway traffic 247 nonstop? Noise and air pollution

How are the new ones at PS doing (Hillside, Bluffs, and Highlands)?

Here is the quote I got from villagesofirvine.com

"VILLAGE OF THE YEAR
Portola Springs, the best kept secret in Irvine, is now the Village of the Year according to the Irvine Standard. Living here will connect you with everything you need and love, including: 
-New Loma Ridge Elementary, a state-of-the-art facility, emphasizing in the latest and greatest technology
-New Portola Springs Community Park, a public 32-acre hilltop park with sports courts, playgrounds and community center
-Connected to nature with spectacular views of Loma Ridge and access to miles of trails
-Nearby shopping, dining and entertainment at Irvine Spectrum Center and more just minutes from home"

Hey, mountaineer, did you write this?

Mety: What’s your thoughts about CV?
Really close the the busiest freeway in California.

I've said this before, but "my thoughts" are I think CV homes closer to Trabuco where the freeway noise is not heard are OK. I've done a test actually to see how far I had to be from the I-5 to be able to have minimal noise in "my ears" (very subjective, right?). I started to hear less from around the elementary school.

Now, I haven't done an accurate test with a machine like this to see the air quality.
https://www.grainger.com/product/20Z194?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5_bXnduh5gIVrx6tBh2A2QluEAQYAiABEgIpXvD_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI5_bXnduh5gIVrx6tBh2A2QluEAQYAiABEgIpXvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916686277!!!g!82166347917!


But I have run with https://breezometer.com/. And the air quality from CV is just as fine as other Irvine areas. Yes, living near 241 is just fine according this air quality detector. What I have found though was that overall Irvine air was not as good as I thought.

For me though, I once lived where kids were racing from 12am-4am (yes, DJ) so I'm done with living near the busy road. It's not for the air quality I'm choosing not to buy near the busy road but to be able to sleep without hearing car exhausts you never thought existed.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
How can the air quality be the same with freeway traffic 247 nonstop? Noise and air pollution

Well, I'm not an expert on air quality. Maybe PM Yelly? :D

I've seen some other videos too that near the freeway actually doesn't have as much pollution as people think. I think the particles and smog kind of dissipate quick and don't really come in contact with people or homes with closed windows. Of course if you stand on the middle of the freeway 24/7, that's a different story. I also saw some tests showing the exposure of smoking or second hand smoking is a lot worse than being next to freeways. But again, I'm not the expert on this.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:34:22 AM
It’s more than you think.
Why did universities did research for people living next to the fwy?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:36:54 AM
I can share the independent research again if you would like.  ;)

It’s almost common sense.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: paydawg on December 06, 2019, 11:37:24 AM
It’s more than you think.
Why did universities did research for people living next to the fwy?

B/c that research his easier to do and easier to draw conclusions from. 

Just like it's easy to draw a conclusion that overweight people who live next to a McDonald's got fat by eating at that McDonald's.  But those overweight people might have eaten poorly even if that McD's was there.   
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:42:26 AM
It’s more than you think.
Why did universities did research for people living next to the fwy?

B/c that research his easier to do and easier to draw conclusions from. 

Just like it's easy to draw a conclusion that overweight people who live next to a McDonald's got fat by eating at that McDonald's.  But those overweight people might have eaten poorly even if that McD's was there.

That’s a negative. We can have a discussion regarding the study.

* This one of the reasons why Yelly kept on talking about wearing masks.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 11:43:45 AM
I can share the independent research again if you would like.  ;)

It’s almost common sense.

This is one research on US. It's a government website (not sure if you'll feel more reliable or not).
https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

I think the vehicle emission/pollution got a lot better over the last 40 years.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: WTTCHMN on December 06, 2019, 11:47:23 AM
Every village has it's flaw.  I don't believe PS has any any legit health hazards

Trash gravy??

https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15011.msg301699.html#msg301699

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 11:49:05 AM
I can share the independent research again if you would like.  ;)

It’s almost common sense.

This is one research on US. It's a government website (not sure if you'll feel more reliable or not).
https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

I think the vehicle emission/pollution got a lot better over the last 40 years.

There’s too much to talk about and discuss regarding air pollution. Ths is more of a PS thread. I will start a new thread when I have time prob later today.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 11:53:04 AM
I can share the independent research again if you would like.  ;)

It’s almost common sense.

This is one research on US. It's a government website (not sure if you'll feel more reliable or not).
https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

I think the vehicle emission/pollution got a lot better over the last 40 years.

Of course you will find one that fits your argument.

This one actually says there's a lot more to be done so it's not really supporting the idea of living next to freeways is good which is not my argument either anyways.

You can share what you've found or your opinions. I've shared mine and what I've found. But I think no one really has a 100% absolute answer on this.

I personally choose not to live close to freeways/busy roads.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 11:54:39 AM
Every village has it's flaw.  I don't believe PS has any any legit health hazards

Trash gravy??

https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15011.msg301699.html#msg301699

I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

http://www.oclandfills.com/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=83644
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: WTTCHMN on December 06, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897

I see IHS as a master designer for residential homes. But I personally don’t find any reason to trust him in other matters. According to BTB/YF, he is not God. He might be a prophet. False or true prophet is the question...
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 12:53:27 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897

I see IHS as a master designer for residential homes. But I personally don’t find any reason to trust him in other matters. According to BTB/YF, he is not God. He might be a prophet. False or true prophet is the question...

How do you remember what Belly thought of him? (Which leads me to believe)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 12:55:21 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897

I see IHS as a master designer for residential homes. But I personally don’t find any reason to trust him in other matters. According to BTB/YF, he is not God. He might be a prophet. False or true prophet is the question...

How do you remember what Belly thought of him? (Which leads me to believe)

I'm saying only from out of what he said. He made it all "x" but I remember him saying that when he was debating with IHO. But who cares? >:D
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2019, 01:06:00 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897

I see IHS as a master designer for residential homes. But I personally don’t find any reason to trust him in other matters. According to BTB/YF, he is not God. He might be a prophet. False or true prophet is the question...

How do you remember what Belly thought of him? (Which leads me to believe)

I'm saying only from out of what he said. He made it all "x" but I remember him saying that when he was debating with IHO. But who cares? >:D

Either you have a good memory or....
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 06, 2019, 03:24:43 PM
I think Frank R. Bowerman Landfill uses state of the art technology that would not cause gravy?

IHS says no:
https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,15322.msg310897.html#msg310897

I see IHS as a master designer for residential homes. But I personally don’t find any reason to trust him in other matters. According to BTB/YF, he is not God. He might be a prophet. False or true prophet is the question...

How do you remember what Belly thought of him? (Which leads me to believe)

I'm saying only from out of what he said. He made it all "x" but I remember him saying that when he was debating with IHO. But who cares? >:D

Either you have a good memory or....

I ain't no YF, bro. mountaineer might be..
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Happiness on December 06, 2019, 04:35:24 PM
Like the difference between Lexus and Toyota, or Rolex and Tudor, TIC always opens developments in a hi/lo price mix in order to capture the widest market:

2000: Nortpark – West Irvine
2003: Quail Hill – Oak Creek
2006: Woodbury - Portola Springs

We shouldn’t criticize the Lexus owner for foolishly overpaying, nor should we look down on the Toyota driver for wanting a good value.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 06, 2019, 11:56:21 PM
I don’t think West Irvine was a TIC hood.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Lionsden on December 07, 2019, 07:52:30 AM
I don’t think those pairings are accurate either. W irvine was not a tic project. Hi-Lo pairings are northpark-northpark square, Woodbury-Woodbury east, stonegate-stonegate east. Compared to the original villages, the add-on villages convey “value” in that they coattail off of the original vallage’s allure while providing lower quality amenities. When u look at the master planning of ps, there is no valueeningineering in terms of amenities or product attributes. Just look at the ambiance of enclave 1. Why cheaper? It’s a function of its proximity to amenities, including the 5/405. the pricipal demeriting factor for ps has been its distance and delays in executing on the promised amenities, which tic has finally been constructing lately, due to its ip projects.For the longest time, ps has been out in the boonies w no construction around it. Now w its own 2 elem schools, upcoming childcare, recently constructed sports park, tic doubling down its marketing on ps due to ip, gp amenities under construction in its vicinity, I believe ps may have a large long term upside potential, esp given gp homes’ high mr and once the new home smells are gone and ppl realize the downsides of living in 3 story homes.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: OCLuvr on December 07, 2019, 11:02:57 AM
USCtrojan—best Irvine realtor—has been saying this for a while. All the other communities have already shown their potential, but PS has yet to show its potential.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 08, 2019, 05:33:46 AM
USCtrojan—best Irvine realtor—has been saying this for a while. All the other communities have already shown their potential, but PS has yet to show its potential.

I've always believed this because of the upcoming potential once the full build out of PS occurred hence why I would have bought a Las Ventanas Plan 2 back in 2012 but I got a great deal on a short sale in West Irvine.  It would have been great if they would have built a shopping center where Portola Elementary is but that won't be a huge issue as they'll build retail at the Great Park in the next few years. Irvine Company will flex their marketing muscle to change the conception of Portola Springs from a value village to a premium village now that they are selling homes in the prime location of Portola Springs (they did mistake thinking that they can get premium prices right off the bat without using momentum of sales like the builders did at Pavilion Park). 
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: akkord on December 08, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
No problem!  Now where's that air pollution thread eyephone was going to start. 

Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.

I got the first person to ignore me on TI.   >:D

I'm still sticking by the fact that the Toll Road is probably the worse environmental concern that I know of. 

And I never disagreed with this guy/girl that living near the 5 or 405 was better, where did I say that.  In fact I think it's way worse and would never choose to live close to either. 

Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.
I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you. 

I would say all freeways are an environmental concern, the noise that would come with it is bad enough for me to avoid any homes near any freeways or major streets.  This would be for all Irvine homes. 

As for living near a toll road/fwy/major street, I stand by that it's a health hazard, doesn't matter which Irvine village you live in, go back to my original post, I wrote it depends on how close your home is to the toll.  My quick google search gave me the below.  Is the 5 or 405 worse, yes, but the toll road isn't good for you either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/well/family/living-near-a-major-highway-tied-to-developmental-delays-in-children.html
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/29/how-the-air-quality-where-you-live-might-be-affecting-your-health/#1bc90d970175

great, got it! thanks for your clarifications.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: eyephone on December 09, 2019, 08:36:22 AM
Things came up. TI has to take a back seat.

No problem!  Now where's that air pollution thread eyephone was going to start. 

Read all of my previous posts. Undesirable factors for PS are well documented by me. Done with replying to you. There is not a single point to prolong this. You've been laughed at by multiple people. Because you simply seem to forget the highway hazards of 405 and 5 bordering so many other villages. It's simple. It's purposefully turning a blind eye, and then defending yourself by "sticking with facts" and asking unnecessarily dump questions about "do I want to be closer to toll road or farther away". Let me think! I'll get back to you on that.

I got the first person to ignore me on TI.   >:D

I'm still sticking by the fact that the Toll Road is probably the worse environmental concern that I know of. 

And I never disagreed with this guy/girl that living near the 5 or 405 was better, where did I say that.  In fact I think it's way worse and would never choose to live close to either. 

Living by the 5 and 405 ain’t no joke.
I don't think anyone can dispute that, but mountaineer went on a rant when I said living by the toll road is bad for you. 

I would say all freeways are an environmental concern, the noise that would come with it is bad enough for me to avoid any homes near any freeways or major streets.  This would be for all Irvine homes. 

As for living near a toll road/fwy/major street, I stand by that it's a health hazard, doesn't matter which Irvine village you live in, go back to my original post, I wrote it depends on how close your home is to the toll.  My quick google search gave me the below.  Is the 5 or 405 worse, yes, but the toll road isn't good for you either. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/well/family/living-near-a-major-highway-tied-to-developmental-delays-in-children.html
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/05/29/how-the-air-quality-where-you-live-might-be-affecting-your-health/#1bc90d970175

great, got it! thanks for your clarifications.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Happiness on December 09, 2019, 09:05:44 AM
I don’t think West Irvine was a TIC hood.

Part of West Irvine north of Myford (Independence) is not TiC but the part of West Irvine between Irvine and Myford is TIC.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 09, 2019, 10:37:49 AM
USCtrojan—best Irvine realtor—has been saying this for a while. All the other communities have already shown their potential, but PS has yet to show its potential.

I've always believed this because of the upcoming potential once the full build out of PS occurred hence why I would have bought a Las Ventanas Plan 2 back in 2012 but I got a great deal on a short sale in West Irvine.  It would have been great if they would have built a shopping center where Portola Elementary is but that won't be a huge issue as they'll build retail at the Great Park in the next few years. Irvine Company will flex their marketing muscle to change the conception of Portola Springs from a value village to a premium village now that they are selling homes in the prime location of Portola Springs (they did mistake thinking that they can get premium prices right off the bat without using momentum of sales like the builders did at Pavilion Park).

They should have named it Portola Hills or something to get the premium price.

Portola Hills already exists in Lake Forest BTW .
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Compressed-Village on December 09, 2019, 11:47:44 AM
USCtrojan—best Irvine realtor—has been saying this for a while. All the other communities have already shown their potential, but PS has yet to show its potential.

I've always believed this because of the upcoming potential once the full build out of PS occurred hence why I would have bought a Las Ventanas Plan 2 back in 2012 but I got a great deal on a short sale in West Irvine.  It would have been great if they would have built a shopping center where Portola Elementary is but that won't be a huge issue as they'll build retail at the Great Park in the next few years. Irvine Company will flex their marketing muscle to change the conception of Portola Springs from a value village to a premium village now that they are selling homes in the prime location of Portola Springs (they did mistake thinking that they can get premium prices right off the bat without using momentum of sales like the builders did at Pavilion Park).

They should have named it Portola Hills or something to get the premium price.

Portola Hills already exists in Lake Forest BTW .

Portola Bluffs  :)
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 09, 2019, 12:26:48 PM
USCtrojan—best Irvine realtor—has been saying this for a while. All the other communities have already shown their potential, but PS has yet to show its potential.

I've always believed this because of the upcoming potential once the full build out of PS occurred hence why I would have bought a Las Ventanas Plan 2 back in 2012 but I got a great deal on a short sale in West Irvine.  It would have been great if they would have built a shopping center where Portola Elementary is but that won't be a huge issue as they'll build retail at the Great Park in the next few years. Irvine Company will flex their marketing muscle to change the conception of Portola Springs from a value village to a premium village now that they are selling homes in the prime location of Portola Springs (they did mistake thinking that they can get premium prices right off the bat without using momentum of sales like the builders did at Pavilion Park).

They should have named it Portola Hills or something to get the premium price.

Portola Hills already exists in Lake Forest BTW .

Portola Bluffs  :)

Just got an idea.

Portola Canyon

TIC  and PS home owners could have made extra 10% from that name.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: B2FiNiTY on December 11, 2019, 11:54:18 AM
lol nice name actually
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 11, 2019, 05:46:55 PM
What about Portola Hills or Portola Ridge or Portola Rock?
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Happiness on December 12, 2019, 10:28:52 AM
Portola Cove
Portola Bluffs
Portola Coast

They recently renamed West Irvine to West Irvine Pointe after being West Irvine for 20 years so it's not impossible they will someday rename Portola Springs.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: lnc on December 12, 2019, 11:09:44 AM
TIC name the development Portola Springs because this area actually has a spring, the Tomato Springs.

But Tomato Springs doesn't sound too appealing so TIC name the new residential development Portola Springs. 

https://www.orangecoast.com/stuff-we-love/tomato-springs-real-place/
Quote
Is Tomato Springs a Real Place?

Tomato Springs is tiny but legendary. In 1769, Father
Francisco Gomez of the Portola expedition—the first Europeans in California—discovered a source of fresh water he called San Pantaleón. Later explorers called this campsite the Aguage de Padre Gomez (“Spring of Father Gomez”), until those who followed 100 years later renamed it Tomato Springs, for the surrounding wild tomatoes. The spot didn’t get much press until 1912, when a 200-man posse tracked suspected rapist Joe Matlock to the springs and a major shootout ensued. Undersheriff Robert Squares was killed and three other men were injured before the “Tomato Springs Bandit” killed himself. Developers recently gave the area yet another name: Portola Springs. But in the 1990s, the Transportation Corridor Agencies named the nearby toll plazas Tomato Springs. This year, the toll plazas became history, too. Yet the springs still flow near Old Bee Canyon Road on the outskirts of Irvine.
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: Mety on December 12, 2019, 12:47:50 PM
TIC name the development Portola Springs because this area actually has a spring, the Tomato Springs.

But Tomato Springs doesn't sound too appealing so TIC name the new residential development Portola Springs. 

https://www.orangecoast.com/stuff-we-love/tomato-springs-real-place/
Quote
Is Tomato Springs a Real Place?

Tomato Springs is tiny but legendary. In 1769, Father
Francisco Gomez of the Portola expedition—the first Europeans in California—discovered a source of fresh water he called San Pantaleón. Later explorers called this campsite the Aguage de Padre Gomez (“Spring of Father Gomez”), until those who followed 100 years later renamed it Tomato Springs, for the surrounding wild tomatoes. The spot didn’t get much press until 1912, when a 200-man posse tracked suspected rapist Joe Matlock to the springs and a major shootout ensued. Undersheriff Robert Squares was killed and three other men were injured before the “Tomato Springs Bandit” killed himself. Developers recently gave the area yet another name: Portola Springs. But in the 1990s, the Transportation Corridor Agencies named the nearby toll plazas Tomato Springs. This year, the toll plazas became history, too. Yet the springs still flow near Old Bee Canyon Road on the outskirts of Irvine.

So the Tomato Springs flow near the Old Bee CANYON Road. Now time to rename it -

Portola Canyon
 The best kept secret in Irvine
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: marmott on December 12, 2019, 05:54:08 PM
If we really need to keep the Springs let’s go for Hidden Springs.  ;D
Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: lnc on December 12, 2019, 08:17:19 PM
FYI, the Tomato Springs is located south of N4B where Brisa, Celeste and Talise are located. (see the first attached map)

Since we are on the names, I dig up the old original development map from TIC for this area (second attached map).  They did not name all these neighborhoods Portola Springs at first, only the 1st neighborhood (N1).  And as shown in this 2nd map, they give temporary name for the other PS neighborhoods.  They labeled the N5B and N5C Agua Chinon Knolls because there's Agua Chinon Creek near by. 

Title: Re: Land SE of PS/Altair (Modified: Environmental Concerns Broadly)
Post by: kbinteriordesign on December 16, 2019, 12:06:56 AM
Thank you for sharing information about the neighborhood!
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