Talk Irvine

General => Technology => Topic started by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 09:16:33 AM

Title: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 09:16:33 AM
There is an older thread on this:

https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,12152.0.html

Since a hot topic here is solar, I figure it's partly because you either drive or are planning to drive an EV or plug-in.

Based on what I see in Irvine, seems like most people are getting Teslas, and while the Model 3 starting price is closer to option 2 (< $40k), I think most Model 3s that are bought are closer to option 1 (over $50k).

I'm still in the plug-in hybrid camp as I like the option to still be able to drive on T-Rex fuel if I don't have Ben Franklin juice available.

Once my kids are old enough to drive, most likely we will get them a pure EV so they don't have to worry about gas (just like they don't know what a corded phone with a dial is).

For myself, I'm still looking for a bigger plug-in like the Pacifica (plus it's a minivan), but what I've been looking at lately is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV. I really like the Model X but it's actually small for me and over my 99%er budget.

What are you thinking about getting?

(And sorry, no non plug-in hybrids in this thread, has to have a battery or some other fuel source)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
I think we will have a mixture for next few years.  We have one electric and one gas SUV.  Next car we get will likely be a lower price plug in EV (Ioniq was intriguing) with the SUV for long trips/back up. 
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 09:54:50 AM
We have 2x Tesla Model 3s. I'm thinking of selling my Model 3 and trading up to a Model X though. It qualifies for 100% accelerated 1 year depreciation based on tax code. So taking a price of $100,000 and writing it off against my 1099 income then it basically yields me a $70,000 car plus Federal and state EV incentives bringing it down to the low $60s.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: id_rather_be_racing on May 24, 2019, 10:35:01 AM
I've got both a Long Range RWD model 3 and Pacifica Hybrid currently.  They both serve different purposes, but are excellent at what they are built for.

I've also leased a 1st gen Nissan Leaf and Chevy Spark EV in the past.  Both were great to use around town solo driving but that's about it.

I'm planning on picking up a Rivian T1R pickup once final specs are announced, but may pick up a Performance model 3 if the bill to extend EV tax credits has a chance at passing (not likely).

My wife and I were cross-shopping used model Xs with the Pachy, but the Pachy beat the model X in nearly every category we care about (currently).  I picked mine up for 7500 under msrp as it was a leftover 2018 model still sitting on the lot.  After tax incentives/rebates, cost of the car came out to ~$26k, which no used model X could even close to.

I've got quite a few years of EV driving, so I'd be more than happy to talk EVs, PHEVs, or any car for that matter.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 10:39:14 AM
@idrather:

So how is the PacHy working out for you? I've read they've had recalls and other issues.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Compressed-Village on May 24, 2019, 10:50:34 AM
Tire of looking at all the Testla. KONA all electric. Range 259.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 24, 2019, 11:45:35 AM
We have 2x Tesla Model 3s. I'm thinking of selling my Model 3 and trading up to a Model X though. It qualifies for 100% accelerated 1 year depreciation based on tax code. So taking a price of $100,000 and writing it off against my 1099 income then it basically yields me a $70,000 car plus Federal and state EV incentives bringing it down to the low $60s.

I'm going to do that but with the new Cayenne Coupe.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 24, 2019, 11:46:41 AM
Until the auto markers come out with a really long range for the battery, like 400-500 miles, I'm not interested in buying an EV car because I know that I'll forget to charge it and end up stranded.  haha
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 01:01:12 PM
Until the auto markers come out with a really long range for the battery, like 400-500 miles, I'm not interested in buying an EV car because I know that I'll forget to charge it and end up stranded.  haha

New Long Range Model S hits 370 miles rated. It actually made a trip from Fremont to Hawthorne (358 miles) in a test on a full 370 mile charge and had 11% battery left (40 miles) which technically meant it could go right around 400 miles. We're almost there and I'm certain Tesla will be the first to achieve that range with improved battery packs.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 01:41:08 PM
Until the auto markers come out with a really long range for the battery, like 400-500 miles, I'm not interested in buying an EV car because I know that I'll forget to charge it and end up stranded.  haha

Or make vehicles with quick change batteries so instead of charging stations, they make swapping stations. :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:44:32 PM
Until the auto markers come out with a really long range for the battery, like 400-500 miles, I'm not interested in buying an EV car because I know that I'll forget to charge it and end up stranded.  haha

Or make vehicles with quick change batteries so instead of charging stations, they make swapping stations. :)

Tesla charging stations are pretty fast now.

Quote
Tesla unveiled the third generation of its Supercharger charging stations during a customer event at its Fremont, California headquarters Wednesday evening. The new “V3” Supercharger is capable of charging some of the Model 3 at a rate of 250kW, which Tesla says is fast enough to add 75 miles of range in 5 minutes. Tesla says it will break ground on more V3 Superchargers in April.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/6/18253618/tesla-supercharger-250kw-v3-specs-location
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 01:50:46 PM
Sure... but you still can't beat the speed of changing batteries... just like a remote controlled car. :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: id_rather_be_racing on May 24, 2019, 06:28:52 PM
@idrather:

So how is the PacHy working out for you? I've read they've had recalls and other issues.

I've read up on the forums about all the issues, mainly the parking brake issue.  I've been lucky so far with no issues, but we barely drive.  Time will tell how long it will last. 

Worst case scenario if problems keep occurring, I'll just sell/trade the van as I'm way above water due to the huge discount and the tax credits/rebates. 
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: qwerty on May 24, 2019, 07:10:47 PM
Until the auto markers come out with a really long range for the battery, like 400-500 miles, I'm not interested in buying an EV car because I know that I'll forget to charge it and end up stranded.  haha

Or make vehicles with quick change batteries so instead of charging stations, they make swapping stations. :)

Certain companies use the battery swap for forklifts in their factories
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eddieuclabruin on May 31, 2019, 06:49:28 AM
I drive a Tesla Model 3 Long-Range and my wife drives a Chevy Bolt EV (rated at 248 miles of range). Between Tesla superchargers and all of the EV chargers scattered throughout the city of Irvine, we've had no problem with range anxiety or a lack of charging stalls.

Going to the spectrum to catch a dinner and movie? Charge for 3 hours while you're there and gain 60 miles worth of range for $3. Going to the gym at the woodbury town center for an hour? Just plug it in while you work out and gain 20 miles of range for $1.

My wife's bolt lease is over in a year and a half, which should be right around the time the Model Y will be coming out so we are considering purchasing one of those and going all Tesla. :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: zovall on May 31, 2019, 08:19:29 AM
The Standard Range Model 3 (now $35,400) is an amazing car. We doubled down and it is pretty much the same as our Dual Motor Model 3 which cost ~$20k more.

The Standard Range Model 3 is about $40.5k out the door. After the $3750 tax credit (dropping to $1875 July 1st), the $2500 CVRP rebate (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng), and the $1000 SoCal Edison rebate (https://evrebates.sce.com/cleanfuel), you are looking at a net cost of $33,250.

We had one of the early LEAFs (leased it) and have had no regrets going electric.

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 31, 2019, 08:26:43 AM
I'm going to see what those EV Rivian trucks and SUVs look like.

(https://www.autopromag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/New-Rivian-truck-and-SUV.jpg)

Expensive... but it would be nice to go back to a pickup truck and feel young again. :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: OCtoSV on June 04, 2019, 06:45:12 PM
We have 2x Tesla Model 3s. I'm thinking of selling my Model 3 and trading up to a Model X though. It qualifies for 100% accelerated 1 year depreciation based on tax code. So taking a price of $100,000 and writing it off against my 1099 income then it basically yields me a $70,000 car plus Federal and state EV incentives bringing it down to the low $60s.

I'm going to do that but with the new Cayenne Coupe.
What are your thoughts on  Cayenne vs Panamera? Both are insane values lightly used.

I've never wanted to spend that much money on a car, but if I do I think it would be tough not to go Tesla. Plus the carpool sticker is only EV so plug in hybrid makes zero sense. I've got a cheap eGolf lease now and once you go electric its tough to go back. I think gas cars will be an anomaly a lot sooner than most people think - IMO a decade. There will be wrenching consolidation as the service revenue-fueled dealership model dries up given the dramatically lower service reqs for EVs. A big problem for brands like Porsche will be Tesla's technology lead - hardware/software, drivetrain, battery design and mfg. This will really show up once the regulatory environment around autonomous driving matures, probably also in a decade.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 05, 2019, 12:14:30 AM
We have 2x Tesla Model 3s. I'm thinking of selling my Model 3 and trading up to a Model X though. It qualifies for 100% accelerated 1 year depreciation based on tax code. So taking a price of $100,000 and writing it off against my 1099 income then it basically yields me a $70,000 car plus Federal and state EV incentives bringing it down to the low $60s.

I'm going to do that but with the new Cayenne Coupe.
What are your thoughts on  Cayenne vs Panamera? Both are insane values lightly used.

I've never wanted to spend that much money on a car, but if I do I think it would be tough not to go Tesla. Plus the carpool sticker is only EV so plug in hybrid makes zero sense. I've got a cheap eGolf lease now and once you go electric its tough to go back. I think gas cars will be an anomaly a lot sooner than most people think - IMO a decade. There will be wrenching consolidation as the service revenue-fueled dealership model dries up given the dramatically lower service reqs for EVs. A big problem for brands like Porsche will be Tesla's technology lead - hardware/software, drivetrain, battery design and mfg. This will really show up once the regulatory environment around autonomous driving matures, probably also in a decade.

Never had a Panny, just GT cars and a Macan and regular Cayenne.  I've always lightly optioned my cars because loading up on options is how you take a big hit on depreciation.  I'll sell the Cayenne Coupe in Jan and get a new Macan S and then in 2021 I'll probably sell that and pick up a Macan GTS.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2019, 06:54:31 AM
Plus the carpool sticker is only EV so plug in hybrid makes zero sense.

I thought you can get that sticker on plug-in hybrids too. I see them on Pacificas and Claritys.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: marmott on June 05, 2019, 07:04:43 AM
You can: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/eligible-carpool-sticker-list

I think eventually only pure EVs will get them but there is still some time for PHEVs.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 27, 2019, 08:26:09 AM
Anyone looking at the Kia Niro EV or the Hyundai Kona EV? I know they are not Teslas, but Kias and Hyundais are also popular in Irvine.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Compressed-Village on August 27, 2019, 12:47:48 PM
Anyone looking at the Kia Niro EV or the Hyundai Kona EV? I know they are not Teslas, but Kias and Hyundais are also popular in Irvine.

I think Kona Hyundai and Kia gives the best bangs for your bucks. And those that drives it doesn’t want to looks all alike, maybe.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: momopi on August 27, 2019, 02:35:54 PM

I'm a bit iffy on EV vehicles that tend to have more snooping sensors.  Most new vehicles sold today have black box that records crash information, but many go far beyond that.  GPS and services like "OnStar" are notorious for collecting wide array of information for big data.  Unlike consumer credit and cell phone service providers there are very few laws protecting our privacy in your car.  You might think the GPS is only tracking consumer habits, but consider how location data can be used to identity (infer) your religious and political affiliations -- I see that you dine at Chick-Fil-A, shop at Turners, and visit Triple B Clays on weekend.  Mark that guy with a red flag!

On a more basic (non big data) level, consider if you set your home address on your car's built in GPS and someone steals your car, they might follow the GPS to rob your home.  So instead of using your real home address, set it to the supermarket across the street.

If you think it'd be easy to order a location tracking jammer on ebay, be aware that you'd be breaking Federal law with possible fines and jail time.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2019, 12:31:24 PM
@momopi: I would expect no less from a prepper. :)

EVs are prime time.... Amazon is buying 100,000 from Rivian for its delivery truck fleet.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/jeff-bezos-amazon-climate-change-paris-agreement/
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eyephone on September 20, 2019, 12:33:29 PM
@momopi: I would expect no less from a prepper. :)

EVs are prime time.... Amazon is buying 100,000 from Rivian for its delivery truck fleet.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/jeff-bezos-amazon-climate-change-paris-agreement/

or it can be a simple tax strategy
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
If you're not minimizing taxes... you're not trying. :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eyephone on September 20, 2019, 12:48:50 PM
@momopi: I would expect no less from a prepper. :)

EVs are prime time.... Amazon is buying 100,000 from Rivian for its delivery truck fleet.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/jeff-bezos-amazon-climate-change-paris-agreement/

or it can be a simple tax strategy

Same with solar panels..
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eyephone on September 20, 2019, 01:51:51 PM
@momopi: I would expect no less from a prepper. :)

EVs are prime time.... Amazon is buying 100,000 from Rivian for its delivery truck fleet.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/jeff-bezos-amazon-climate-change-paris-agreement/

or it can be a simple tax strategy

Same with solar panels..

When they do it it’s large scale and multiple locations. So the impact is big.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: OCtoSV on September 30, 2019, 09:30:07 AM
Did anyone else see the WSJ Taycan review? Pretty rough comparison with Model S - "Taycan is 5/8 of a Model S at twice the price".

https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-porsche-beat-tesla-with-its-new-taycan-ev-11569431047 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-porsche-beat-tesla-with-its-new-taycan-ev-11569431047)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: jamesKirk on September 30, 2019, 10:42:06 AM
Our new home came with an EV plug upgrade. Didn’t have a choice.

What is currently the cheapest EV or plug in hybrid available that isn’t garbage?

We drive civics and corollas and never spend much on our cars. We’d be interested in getting one EV vehicle, but it’s the price that deters is. We often wait and get really cheap lease deals.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 30, 2019, 10:52:32 AM
@jamesK: The lower end EVs are the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Kia Niro, Hyunda Kona and Tesla Model 3.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Compressed-Village on September 30, 2019, 10:59:20 AM
Was looking Jag I-PACE. Pretty sharp looking, but it will set you back at about 80K for the low side.

Ahh, what happen to the days that I thought my car was too expensive at 7 thousands dollars.... :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: gpquest on September 30, 2019, 11:07:50 AM
Our new home came with an EV plug upgrade. Didn’t have a choice.

What is currently the cheapest EV or plug in hybrid available that isn’t garbage?

We drive civics and corollas and never spend much on our cars. We’d be interested in getting one EV vehicle, but it’s the price that deters is. We often wait and get really cheap lease deals.

Take a look at the Porsche Taycan Turbo S. You'll love it! ;-)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: jamesKirk on September 30, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
@jamesK: The lower end EVs are the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Kia Niro, Hyunda Kona and Tesla Model 3.

Do plug ins go cheaper than straight EVs? Never thought about getting any type of EV vehicle until getting our house honestly. My wife only drives about 20-25 miles a day so no problem with range.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: nosuchreality on September 30, 2019, 11:25:40 AM
@jamesK: The lower end EVs are the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Kia Niro, Hyunda Kona and Tesla Model 3.

Do plug ins go cheaper than straight EVs? Never thought about getting any type of EV vehicle until getting our house honestly. My wife only drives about 20-25 miles a day so no problem with range.

At that range look.at the little Fiat 500e, they used to basically give them away to make their fleet mileage targets.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 30, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
@jamesK: The lower end EVs are the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Kia Niro, Hyunda Kona and Tesla Model 3.

Do plug ins go cheaper than straight EVs? Never thought about getting any type of EV vehicle until getting our house honestly. My wife only drives about 20-25 miles a day so no problem with range.

Yes. Plug-in hybrids are less expensive.

For a bigger SUV, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is decent, about 24 miles of EV range and it's bigger than the compact EVs.

There are also PHEVs by Honda (Clarity) and Hyundai (Ioniq?). The Chevy Volt is also a PHEV if I remember correctly. Plus for those you don't need a Level 2 charger, you can plug into standard 110 and charge overnight.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: qwerty on September 30, 2019, 02:19:09 PM
You can get a bmw i3 for about 150/month (or less) including the tax rebates.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: woodburyowner on September 30, 2019, 05:07:28 PM
Go with 2019 e-Golf.  Currently, there is a $10-11k discount off MSRP and this vehicle qualifies for all EV incentives.

$33,475 MSRP
$11,000 discount
-$7,500.00 Fed Credit
-$2,500.00 CA State Rebate
-$1,000 SCE Rebate
---------------------------
$11,500 + TTL

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Kangen.Irvine on September 30, 2019, 06:57:14 PM
The Chevy Volt is pretty good with almost 60 miles before even switching to the ICE. I’m sure a great deal can be found since they are on their last model year.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: jamesKirk on September 30, 2019, 07:56:17 PM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?

Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: aquabliss on September 30, 2019, 09:09:43 PM
Go with 2019 e-Golf.  Currently, there is a $10-11k discount off MSRP and this vehicle qualifies for all EV incentives.

$33,475 MSRP
$11,000 discount
-$7,500.00 Fed Rebate
-$2,500.00 CA State Rebate
-$1,000 SCE Rebate
---------------------------
$11,500 + TTL



The $7,500 is a tax credit not a rebate.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: woodburyowner on September 30, 2019, 09:42:55 PM
Go with 2019 e-Golf.  Currently, there is a $10-11k discount off MSRP and this vehicle qualifies for all EV incentives.

$33,475 MSRP
$11,000 discount
-$7,500.00 Fed Rebate
-$2,500.00 CA State Rebate
-$1,000 SCE Rebate
---------------------------
$11,500 + TTL



The $7,500 is a tax credit not a rebate.

Fixed. 
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 30, 2019, 11:18:02 PM
Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.

Yeah. 240 is level 2.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: momopi on October 01, 2019, 09:26:39 AM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?

Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.

What is the amp rating on that 240v outlet?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 01, 2019, 02:46:12 PM
Go with 2019 e-Golf.  Currently, there is a $10-11k discount off MSRP and this vehicle qualifies for all EV incentives.

$33,475 MSRP
$11,000 discount
-$7,500.00 Fed Rebate
-$2,500.00 CA State Rebate
-$1,000 SCE Rebate
---------------------------
$11,500 + TTL



The $7,500 is a tax credit not a rebate.
[/quote]

Fixed. 
[/quote]

There are some income limitations on the CA rebate program...see below...

Standard CVRP Rebate

Annual household income must be at or below the income caps listed below.

$150,000 for single filers
$204,000 for head-of-household filers
$300,000 for joint filers
Incomes that exceed the above levels are eligible for fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) rebates only.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 01, 2019, 02:47:35 PM
Btw, how much many KWH will you use to charge an EV car per year?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Kings on October 01, 2019, 02:51:00 PM
Btw, how much many KWH will you use to charge an EV car per year?

most cars return between 3-4 miles per kWh.  at 10,000 miles per year, you're looking at 2,500 - 3,333 kWh
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: jamesKirk on October 01, 2019, 03:07:17 PM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?

Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.

What is the amp rating on that 240v outlet?

No Idea. We move in next week so I’ll check.


So if we are under that threshold we should be able to get this price of 12k + TTL. We pay plenty of taxes so tax credit works similarly.

Can anyone comment on the lifespan and maintenance costs of an EV vehicle? Seriously thinking more about this as one of our leases ends soon. Wondering if I should lease one since it seems like EV technology is improving and may improve a lot in 3 years.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 01, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
@jamesK:

If you can get a good lease that does a pass-through of the Fed tax credit, you should consider it.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: momopi on October 01, 2019, 03:48:51 PM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?
Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.
What is the amp rating on that 240v outlet?
No Idea. We move in next week so I’ll check.


I'm not an electrician.  But as I understand it, 240v outlet can have different amp rating, and your (plug in) car also has restrictions on what amp rating it can accept.  When recharging 60 kWh battery on 240v outlet, it can take 8-16 hours depending on the amp rating.  Someone more knowledgeable can probably speak on this topic.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Kenkoko on October 01, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Can anyone comment on the lifespan and maintenance costs of an EV vehicle? Seriously thinking more about this as one of our leases ends soon. Wondering if I should lease one since it seems like EV technology is improving and may improve a lot in 3 years.

I highly recommend leasing, especially if you are considering a BMWi3 where the residual value works highly in your favor.
The 7500 fed credit and California 2500 rebate are the same whether you buy or lease (lease has to be longer than 30 months)
Therefore the math heavily favors leasing because the combined 10k credit/rebate is twice as big of a portion in a lease where you are paying for approx 50% of the car value.

BMW will claim the 7500 fed tax credit thus lowering the cost of the lease.
My current i3 lease is 30 months with Crevier BMW in Santa Ana.
cost is 4k drive off and $225/month (taxes included)
I did get 2500 California rebate thus reducing the true driveoff cost to 1500 (took almost 3 months to get the rebate check)
25k mileage limit.

I didn't even bother installing a charger because this is strictly my commuting car. BMW gave me a free wall charger that plugs into a regular outlet. It's enough to get it fully charged by morning.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: daedalus on October 01, 2019, 07:25:13 PM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?
Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.
What is the amp rating on that 240v outlet?
No Idea. We move in next week so I’ll check.


I'm not an electrician.  But as I understand it, 240v outlet can have different amp rating, and your (plug in) car also has restrictions on what amp rating it can accept.  When recharging 60 kWh battery on 240v outlet, it can take 8-16 hours depending on the amp rating.  Someone more knowledgeable can probably speak on this topic.


Plugs and receptacles are specific to their amp rating.  If the house is built per code (caution: easy hack), and if the plug fits the receptacle, then all is good.  A 50 amp plug will not fit a 40 amp receptacle.  But there's no single standard size for 240V plugs, or for Level 2 chargers.  My Level 2 charger uses a NEMA L6-50 plug, which is sized for a 50 amp circuit.  Not all chargers have 50 amp plugs.  And some are hard-wired, with not plugs at all.

Amp ratings are simply the maximum current allowed by electrical code through the circuit.  The breaker, the wire and the plug/receptacle are all made to support that amount of draw.  The actual draw is determined by the appliance, thus it will have a plug to match its demand.

You can adapt down in amperage, but you cannot adapt up.  You can also swap down receptacles and breakers, but you cannot swap up, due to the wire size limit.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 02, 2019, 10:44:05 PM
Are these prices in theory or are people actually getting these prices?
Also what is level 2? Looking at what the builder called an EV plug it just looks like a standard 240v outlet. Not sure if there’s anything more to it than that.
What is the amp rating on that 240v outlet?
No Idea. We move in next week so I’ll check.


I'm not an electrician.  But as I understand it, 240v outlet can have different amp rating, and your (plug in) car also has restrictions on what amp rating it can accept.  When recharging 60 kWh battery on 240v outlet, it can take 8-16 hours depending on the amp rating.  Someone more knowledgeable can probably speak on this topic.


Plugs and receptacles are specific to their amp rating.  If the house is built per code (caution: easy hack), and if the plug fits the receptacle, then all is good.  A 50 amp plug will not fit a 40 amp receptacle.  But there's no single standard size for 240V plugs, or for Level 2 chargers.  My Level 2 charger uses a NEMA L6-50 plug, which is sized for a 50 amp circuit.  Not all chargers have 50 amp plugs.  And some are hard-wired, with not plugs at all.

Amp ratings are simply the maximum current allowed by electrical code through the circuit.  The breaker, the wire and the plug/receptacle are all made to support that amount of draw.  The actual draw is determined by the appliance, thus it will have a plug to match its demand.

You can adapt down in amperage, but you cannot adapt up.  You can also swap down receptacles and breakers, but you cannot swap up, due to the wire size limit.

Very interesting, are you an electrical engineer?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Cares on October 03, 2019, 12:51:33 PM
The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: woodburyowner on October 03, 2019, 01:30:13 PM
The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: id_rather_be_racing on October 03, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Those funds are probably earmarked for the low income applicants and FCV applicants.

recently, this has happened almost every year.  Funds run out, waitlist begins, funds are replenished, waitlist applicants are made whole, applications are opened up again.  Granted there are WAY more EV buyers than before, so can't say how long future funds will last, but i've done this 3x now, waitlisted every time, and each time i got paid, albeit months later.

The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?



Generally speaking, you shouldn't buy an EV right now as the technology is still improving significantly every year, which doesn't help depreciation.  The only exceptions to this are Teslas, as I've seen them hold their values fairly well compared to the rest of the EV offerings out there.  I've personally owned/leased 3 pure EVs and one plugin, so I'm familiar with living with an EV.  I can tell you with certainty that the Model 3 I currently own and rent outclasses every EV and ICE car in its price range and segment when it comes to daily drivability. 

As for the e-golf deal, yes people are getting insane leases, see this link for a comprehensive list of discounts available"  https://slickdeals.net/f/13163326-21-000-off-msrp-2019-volkswagen-egolf-w-driver-s-assistance-package-125-mile-epa-range-final-price-10-000-13-500

I'm on the hunt for one too, but your luck is highly YMMV.

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: jamesKirk on October 03, 2019, 02:12:17 PM
Those funds are probably earmarked for the low income applicants and FCV applicants.

recently, this has happened almost every year.  Funds run out, waitlist begins, funds are replenished, waitlist applicants are made whole, applications are opened up again.  Granted there are WAY more EV buyers than before, so can't say how long future funds will last, but i've done this 3x now, waitlisted every time, and each time i got paid, albeit months later.

The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?



Generally speaking, you shouldn't buy an EV right now as the technology is still improving significantly every year, which doesn't help depreciation.  The only exceptions to this are Teslas, as I've seen them hold their values fairly well compared to the rest of the EV offerings out there.  I've personally owned/leased 3 pure EVs and one plugin, so I'm familiar with living with an EV.  I can tell you with certainty that the Model 3 I currently own and rent outclasses every EV and ICE car in its price range and segment when it comes to daily drivability. 

As for the e-golf deal, yes people are getting insane leases, see this link for a comprehensive list of discounts available"  https://slickdeals.net/f/13163326-21-000-off-msrp-2019-volkswagen-egolf-w-driver-s-assistance-package-125-mile-epa-range-final-price-10-000-13-500

I'm on the hunt for one too, but your luck is highly YMMV.

I’d only want to lease one of these cheap EVs, mainly because it’s basically as cheap as a low end sedan lease, but lower fuel cost.

Does it seem like a huge hassle to get one of these or any of the cheap EVs mentioned at these final prices?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: id_rather_be_racing on October 03, 2019, 02:39:56 PM
Those funds are probably earmarked for the low income applicants and FCV applicants.

recently, this has happened almost every year.  Funds run out, waitlist begins, funds are replenished, waitlist applicants are made whole, applications are opened up again.  Granted there are WAY more EV buyers than before, so can't say how long future funds will last, but i've done this 3x now, waitlisted every time, and each time i got paid, albeit months later.

The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?



Generally speaking, you shouldn't buy an EV right now as the technology is still improving significantly every year, which doesn't help depreciation.  The only exceptions to this are Teslas, as I've seen them hold their values fairly well compared to the rest of the EV offerings out there.  I've personally owned/leased 3 pure EVs and one plugin, so I'm familiar with living with an EV.  I can tell you with certainty that the Model 3 I currently own and rent outclasses every EV and ICE car in its price range and segment when it comes to daily drivability. 

As for the e-golf deal, yes people are getting insane leases, see this link for a comprehensive list of discounts available"  https://slickdeals.net/f/13163326-21-000-off-msrp-2019-volkswagen-egolf-w-driver-s-assistance-package-125-mile-epa-range-final-price-10-000-13-500

I'm on the hunt for one too, but your luck is highly YMMV.

I’d only want to lease one of these cheap EVs, mainly because it’s basically as cheap as a low end sedan lease, but lower fuel cost.

Does it seem like a huge hassle to get one of these or any of the cheap EVs mentioned at these final prices?

Like anything worth doing, you'll have to work with willing dealers and such and put in the legwork. 

My last EV was a chevy spark EV, a stopgap between my first EV and the model 3.  my monthly payment net of rebates/credits was $66.67/mo. for a 36/12k lease term, absolutely zero down. This was a similar deal to the e-golfs when dealers were willing to essentially knock off 5 figures from the msrp, so yes this deal can be done. 

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: woodburyowner on October 03, 2019, 02:50:04 PM
No, that's a different bucket.  I think Cares is misinterpreting what is mentioned on the CVRP website.  Funds were just replenished a month or two ago and the waitlist has been cleared up now.  So now all applicants get the rebate without being on a waitlist.

Those funds are probably earmarked for the low income applicants and FCV applicants.

recently, this has happened almost every year.  Funds run out, waitlist begins, funds are replenished, waitlist applicants are made whole, applications are opened up again.  Granted there are WAY more EV buyers than before, so can't say how long future funds will last, but i've done this 3x now, waitlisted every time, and each time i got paid, albeit months later.

The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: id_rather_be_racing on October 04, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
I think you're right.  the waitlist ending 9/24 is probably referring to the fact that you can apply normally now.  Good call, now im much more motivated to find a solid EV deal, maybe even an FCV deal for 5k rebate.


No, that's a different bucket.  I think Cares is misinterpreting what is mentioned on the CVRP website.  Funds were just replenished a month or two ago and the waitlist has been cleared up now.  So now all applicants get the rebate without being on a waitlist.

Those funds are probably earmarked for the low income applicants and FCV applicants.

recently, this has happened almost every year.  Funds run out, waitlist begins, funds are replenished, waitlist applicants are made whole, applications are opened up again.  Granted there are WAY more EV buyers than before, so can't say how long future funds will last, but i've done this 3x now, waitlisted every time, and each time i got paid, albeit months later.

The $2500 CVRP (California rebate) is oversubscribed and the waitlist is also closed. Basically the funds have been exhausted so don't count on it in your calculations.

CVRP website still shows $80M left in funding.  Where are you getting your info?
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 16, 2019, 07:42:43 AM
So I think the cheapest EV that is sort of like an SUV is the Kia Niro or the Hyundai Kona.

With the Model Y being 1 or 2 (more like 2) years away, are there any other options? There is the Mistubishi Outlander PHEV but that's a hybrid plug-in and while bigger than both the Kia and Hyundai, it's also more expensive than the PHEV versions of those EV offerings.

Sat in both of those and I can "fit"... just wondering if there is something better to wait for that isn't the Tesla.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: akkord on October 16, 2019, 08:05:49 AM
Electric Macan in a couple of years.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 16, 2019, 08:08:01 AM
I should have emphasized "cheapest". :)
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: AW on October 16, 2019, 08:36:49 AM
Isn’t the vw egolf around the same interior volume (it just looks like a typical hatchback whereas the niro/kona looks like it’s just “taller” but interior volume may be within same range?). And egolf looks to be the cheapest brand new now
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 16, 2019, 10:10:09 AM
Looked at the eGolf... I think part of the reason why I'm searching for an "SUV"-type vehicle is the height and the ease of ingress/egress... otherwise once you are in that high $30k range, the Model 3 is probably the best choice.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: Compressed-Village on October 25, 2019, 08:33:45 AM
 https://www.ocregister.com/2019/10/25/hyundai-to-test-self-driving-vehicles-as-shuttle-service-in-irvine/

Hyundai is about to begin road-testing a free, autonomous ride share service that will shuttle passengers between 13 destinations around Irvine.

Called BotRide, it’s set to launch Nov. 4 and will use a smartphone app through which people can find a nearby stop and request a ride in a self-driving Hyundai KONA electric SUV during pre-set hours of operation.

Irvine will again set the new high standards for solving 21 century problems. Traffics and pollutions.

Sign up and take advantage of the free services if your commute routes is on their list.

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 20, 2020, 08:36:15 AM
Test drove a Kia Niro EV.

It's good, but still small for me... maybe for one of my kids when they get their license. I would rec the Niro over the Model 3 purely for utilitarian reasons, easier ingress/outgress and a bit more interior space as a small SUV vs a compact sedan.

The Mitsi Outlander PHEV is supposed to get a redesign this year... beefier exterior and an increase in all-electric range to the low 40 miles.

Want to see if the VW ID Crozz actually comes out this year... but I think more will be out by 2021.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eyephone on January 20, 2020, 09:06:16 AM
I read on SD that the bolt. Is having a sale. (The electric one)
The net price is like $22ish?

Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: marmott on January 20, 2020, 01:48:06 PM
It's the Bolt that is being heavily discounted.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 20, 2020, 02:39:47 PM
Oh forgot to mention the RAV4 Prime, a PHEV, should by out by this summer. The electric range is 39 miles which is pretty good and I lean towards Toyota of all the foreign brands.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: eyephone on January 20, 2020, 04:49:36 PM
It's the Bolt that is being heavily discounted.

Good catch. I don’t like the design. If they lower it more maybe I will like it.

The body looks like a fit.
Title: Re: EV/Plug-in/Other vehicles
Post by: marmott on January 21, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
It's the Bolt that is being heavily discounted.

Good catch. I don’t like the design. If they lower it more maybe I will like it.

The body looks like a fit.

The Volt body with the Bolt drive train would have been nice. The Volt had a very limited all electric range.

The Bolt range is very decent, the closest any manufacturer got to Tesla.
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