Talk Irvine

General => Economy & Finance => Topic started by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 07:41:12 AM

Title: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 07:41:12 AM
Toyota is moving to Texas.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80033393/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 28, 2014, 07:55:41 AM
Why not Johns Creek? :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehusky on April 28, 2014, 08:59:52 AM
I used to do business at that site.  That is a big loss, especially highly visible.  When will CA learn their lesson?

I can see the highly paid management moving but not everyone.  How much would you have to be paid to move to Texas?  I could tolerate it for about a mil a year...and a top end Lexus and SUV.  Call me, maybe. :P

Toyota is moving to Texas.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80033393/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 28, 2014, 09:14:20 AM
You would have to at least quad me up.

This way I can keep the family in SoCal and I'll just fly back and forth every weekend.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: test on April 28, 2014, 09:23:11 AM
When TIC moves to TX then you know it's time to abandon ship.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 09:32:26 AM
Why not Johns Creek? :)

Texas has no corporate income tax and no individual income tax.

Georgia has both. That is why no Johns Creek.  :D

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 09:48:38 AM
Oxy Petrolium is moving its headquarters to Houston. (Announced last year)

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/14/business/la-fi-mo-occidental-petroleum-california-houston-20140214


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 28, 2014, 10:42:22 AM
Texas unemployment rate is 6.2%, Orange County is 6.2%. It's obviously not good news, but there are still plenty of companies creates jobs in California despite the high costs of living here (mostly real estate)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 28, 2014, 11:16:05 AM
Companies do this all the time...they move to a state where they think has greener pastures only to find that there is a lack of high skill workers/employees.  While people complain about the cost of living in California, most high skilled and high earning workers still want to live here. 

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 28, 2014, 11:26:12 AM
First Honda went to Tenn., now Toyota to Texas.  In 5 years Hyundai's tax credits will expire and they will also flee....dooomed
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
First Honda went to Tenn., now Toyota to Texas.  In 5 years Hyundai's tax credits will expire and they will also flee....dooomed

Correction - Nissan went to Tenn. not Honda motor co.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on April 28, 2014, 11:38:37 AM
First Honda went to Tenn., now Toyota to Texas.  In 5 years Hyundai's tax credits will expire and they will also flee....dooomed

Hurry panda, here's you chance to pitch Hyundai to relocate in Johns Creek.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 28, 2014, 11:38:49 AM
First Honda went to Tenn., now Toyota to Texas.  In 5 years Hyundai's tax credits will expire and they will also flee....dooomed

Correction - Nissan went to Tenn. not Honda motors co.

Sorry my rage clouded my memory, I stand corrected
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 28, 2014, 12:41:52 PM
Companies do this all the time...they move to a state where they think has greener pastures only to find that there is a lack of high skill workers/employees.  While people complain about the cost of living in California, most high skilled and high earning workers still want to live here. 
I think this is something most decision makers do all the time if it doesn't relocate them.

On top of the recruiting pool there, they don't factor in that many won't want to move and that those that do, may not be happy about it.

Some people I know moved to TX because homes were cheaper and they had family there... they moved back to SoCal a few years later because they couldn't stand the heat.  And while real estate and lack of income tax helps, there are other taxes/bills that eat up that difference (I think TX is 1.8% tax, one of the highest).

There are always tons of variables to consider when you choose where to live... Irvine, Texas or Johns Creek all have pros/cons.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 28, 2014, 01:10:27 PM
:P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on April 28, 2014, 01:30:44 PM
Wow this is bad.  A coworker's wife works there.  Wonder what they will do.  Hopefully she is close enough to retirement.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 28, 2014, 01:58:10 PM
 8)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 28, 2014, 02:08:55 PM
Here is the word:

2900 people remain in CA.
750 positions are being added to TEMA in Erlanger, KY.
Bulk of operations (~2400 positions) across TEMA, TMS, and TFS move to Saline and Plano.

This move sounds in between Honda's IT/legal/HR move to Ohio and Nissan's full blown exit to Tennessee.

so what is left here?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehusky on April 28, 2014, 03:17:10 PM
I wonder if the TMS datacenter is moving too?  I wouldn't want to be in charge of that.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: zubs on April 28, 2014, 03:43:19 PM
So is this a buy for TM?
sounds like it

Today: 04.28.2014
TM: $107.07

Will check back in 2015
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 28, 2014, 03:50:45 PM
No workers will remain in Torrance per LA Times.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80038322/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 28, 2014, 04:41:25 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Vinster on April 28, 2014, 05:29:22 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.

Some other interesting tidbits from the article:
A challenge for Toyota will be avoiding a brain drain. Nissan retained just 32% of its workforce when it relocated from the Los Angeles area to Franklin, Tenn., outside of Nashville. Many more employees returned to California after a few years, said Larry Dominique, who was the chief of U.S. product planning for Nissan at the time and now is president of Automotive Lease Guide, a unit of TrueCar Inc.

The auto maker also has a small manufacturing operation in Long Beach, Calif. Toyota said its design studio and several other smaller functions would remain in California, keeping its total workforce there at 2,300.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 28, 2014, 05:32:09 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.
Until Panda/Baby Irvine scared them. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 28, 2014, 06:35:43 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 28, 2014, 08:17:25 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.

Some other interesting tidbits from the article:
A challenge for Toyota will be avoiding a brain drain. Nissan retained just 32% of its workforce when it relocated from the Los Angeles area to Franklin, Tenn., outside of Nashville. Many more employees returned to California after a few years, said Larry Dominique, who was the chief of U.S. product planning for Nissan at the time and now is president of Automotive Lease Guide, a unit of TrueCar Inc.

The auto maker also has a small manufacturing operation in Long Beach, Calif. Toyota said its design studio and several other smaller functions would remain in California, keeping its total workforce there at 2,300.


I love that Texas taxpayers are paying $40M to make it happen.

So much for "limited government."

CA needs to be more corporate friendly.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jayl23 on April 28, 2014, 09:47:48 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.

Some other interesting tidbits from the article:
A challenge for Toyota will be avoiding a brain drain. Nissan retained just 32% of its workforce when it relocated from the Los Angeles area to Franklin, Tenn., outside of Nashville. Many more employees returned to California after a few years, said Larry Dominique, who was the chief of U.S. product planning for Nissan at the time and now is president of Automotive Lease Guide, a unit of TrueCar Inc.

The auto maker also has a small manufacturing operation in Long Beach, Calif. Toyota said its design studio and several other smaller functions would remain in California, keeping its total workforce there at 2,300.


I love that Texas taxpayers are paying $40M to make it happen.

So much for "limited government."

CA needs to be more corporate friendly.

It is, if you're the "right kind" of corporation.  I'm sure if you're a "green" company and donate to the powers that be, you'll be just fine in CA.  Unless the laws of economics take hold.  That's just the way it is, until it's not.   >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 28, 2014, 10:37:18 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.

Some other interesting tidbits from the article:
A challenge for Toyota will be avoiding a brain drain. Nissan retained just 32% of its workforce when it relocated from the Los Angeles area to Franklin, Tenn., outside of Nashville. Many more employees returned to California after a few years, said Larry Dominique, who was the chief of U.S. product planning for Nissan at the time and now is president of Automotive Lease Guide, a unit of TrueCar Inc.

The auto maker also has a small manufacturing operation in Long Beach, Calif. Toyota said its design studio and several other smaller functions would remain in California, keeping its total workforce there at 2,300.


I love that Texas taxpayers are paying $40M to make it happen.

So much for "limited government."

They are getting a long term bargain
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 29, 2014, 09:52:47 AM
 :(
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 11:09:19 AM
True, but if the relatively modest dollar figure of $40 million is all the incentive it took to uproot a stable long time business the offset costs of simply staying put must have been enormous.  This just illustrates the onerous overhead and costs of doing business in our little corner or heaven.  We need to really re-think our anti-business environment.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 29, 2014, 11:40:24 AM
True, but if the relatively modest dollar figure of $40 million is all the incentive it took to uproot a stable long time business the offset costs of simply staying put must have been enormous.  This just illustrates the onerous overhead and costs of doing business in our little corner or heaven.  We need to really re-think our anti-business environment.

Let's think about this for a second. What are the onerous costs of doing business in California?

1) Rent / Real Estate cost for the company
2) Rent / Real Estate cost for the employees

What do you propose we do to fix the #1 and #2 onerous costs of doing business in California?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 11:49:46 AM
It's simple math and common sense...Tesla will chose another state also


"Toyota executives didn’t mention cost, but experts said Texas’ low-tax climate surely played a role in the decision.

“No income tax, much, much lower workers’ compensation fees, lower insurance fees probably, lower housing costs– all of these things add up,” said Peterson of AutoPacific.

The Toyota decision comes as California officials struggle to persuade Tesla Motors Inc. to build its new battery factory in the state. The electric car maker has listed Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada as the four finalists for the 6,500-employee factory, but has also agreed to discuss the project with California officials. Tesla has decided to open a much smaller parts factory in Lathrop

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/04/29/6361571/toyotas-texas-shift-reignites.html#storylink=cpy

In addition lower CARB and regulatory environment add to the pain.  I am in no way advocating lack of regulation but this state strangles you with it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 29, 2014, 01:02:42 PM
  I am in no way advocating lack of regulation but this state strangles you with it.

I agree that we need worker's comp reform here in CA.

What do you propose we do to lower the cost of our real estate and make it more comparable with Texas?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 01:14:27 PM
Again, Real estate is only a factor in the overall picture.  If over time we lower the cost of living here, than real estate may normalize a bit but to anyone who is native knows RE prices here have ALWAYS been out of line with the rest of the country and probably always will be no matter the economic environment. That is the premium cost of doing business here, however it is not the ONLY reason not to.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 01:41:02 PM
i dont think you can fix the real estate prices, they will fix themselves over time.  as employers continue to move out of state, in particular higher paying employers, this will cause real estate prices to drop.  one of the reasons irvines real estate prices are high is because of all of the employers in irvine. imagine of half of them left tomorrow, im guessing real estate prices in irvine/OC would suffer a decent amount.

some of the tech employers up north who have set up advantageous tax structures from day 1 (such as google) shield alot of the profits from US taxes so they can continue to operate here even with the other higher costs of doing business in CA.  Valeant who is looking to take over Allergan used to be based in costa mesa and are now canada based which gives them an advantage (due to lower cost of business) when competing against US companies.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 29, 2014, 01:43:41 PM
It's the regulations and state income taxes in California that's a problem.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on April 29, 2014, 01:46:56 PM
What do you propose we do to lower the cost of our real estate and make it more comparable with Texas?

Get rid of proposition 13?

It's not going to happen but prop 13 discourage people from selling their homes, decrease inventory and increase property value.  Get rid of prop 13 will encourage people to get rid of their home due to high property tax and potentially increase housing inventory.  Just think Turtle Rock area, if there's no prop 13, many retire home owner will be selling their homes.

Moreover, evidence shows that because homeowners would allegedly keep their homes for longer, young households often rent for longer before buying a house.[31] Because Proposition 13 could be a disincentive to sell, there is less turnover among owners near the older downtown areas, and prices appreciate fastest in these areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 29, 2014, 01:48:50 PM
It's the regulations and state income taxes in California that's a problem.

Virtually every article on the move says it's the housing costs that are the number one factor:

As Automotive News put it, “Despite the deep, creative talent pool in greater Los Angeles, doing business in California has become more expensive for companies and their workers.” Bestplaces.net said that the cost of living for employees is 39 percent higher in Torrance than in Plano, and housing costs are 63 percent lower in Plano.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/27/it-makes-sense-for-toyota-to-leave-california-for-texas/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 29, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
What do you propose we do to lower the cost of our real estate and make it more comparable with Texas?

Get rid of proposition 13?

It's not going to happen but prop 13 discourage people from selling their homes, decrease inventory and increase property value.  Get rid of prop 13 will encourage people to get rid of their home due to high property tax and potentially increase housing inventory.  Just think Turtle Rock area, if there's no prop 13, many retire home owner will be selling their homes.

Moreover, evidence shows that because homeowners would allegedly keep their homes for longer, young households often rent for longer before buying a house.[31] Because Proposition 13 could be a disincentive to sell, there is less turnover among owners near the older downtown areas, and prices appreciate fastest in these areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)

I'm all for that. Prop 13 is the worst.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
yeah prop 13 is pretty unfair.  how can two neighbors pay substantially different taxes when they get the same benefits (whether used or not).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 02:09:33 PM
RE value isn't just tied to employers, it's the first 3 rules of RE... location, location, location.

People like to live here because of the weather and lack of congestion like the older East Coast cities.

If half the employers were to leave Irvine, I doubt RE values would drop, new companies would come in and people would look for new jobs.

Look at Hawaii, not many job centers there but RE over there is expensive because people *like* to live there.

I'm not sure how effective it would be to stop Prop 13 either. Look at how much Mello Roos and taxes people are paying on new builds or move-ups, it's not really stopping people from buying. While it could make people want to sell, where would they go? People stay put because they like where they live, rising property tax versus no more mortgage isn't that much of an incentive.

It cost more to do business in CA, it cost more to live in CA... that's not going to change and if you don't like it... move to Johns Creek*.

*I'm shilling for Panda/Baby Irvine
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 02:23:16 PM
If half the employers were to leave Irvine, I doubt RE values would drop, new companies would come in and people would look for new jobs.


tell that to Detroit.  my point was assuming no companies would come in as replacements since CA is too expensive. i was referring to the long term impact of companies continuing to leave over the long term. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 02:27:13 PM
tell that to Detroit.  my point was assuming no companies would come in as replacements since CA is too expensive. i was referring to the long term impact of companies continuing to leave over the long term. 
Detroit is not the same as SoCal.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 02:49:11 PM
tell that to Detroit.  my point was assuming no companies would come in as replacements since CA is too expensive. i was referring to the long term impact of companies continuing to leave over the long term. 
Detroit is not the same as SoCal.

but the impact is the same, companies leaving in droves without replacement does bad things to the area.  now i dont think companies will leave socal in large quantities, but if they did, detroit is the blueprint.  i dont think there are enough vacation buyers to prop up the entire Socal real estate market.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 03:56:30 PM
But your premise is flawed.

SoCal is not Detroit in that there will always be replacements because of the superior location and availability of quality workers.

Detroit can't be the blueprint because the location itself does not have the same advantages.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 29, 2014, 04:08:46 PM
But your premise is flawed.

SoCal is not Detroit in that there will always be replacements because of the superior location and availability of quality workers.

Detroit can't be the blueprint because the location itself does not have the same advantages.

The Detroit metropolitan area didn't die - just the city itself. Everyone with money moved to the suburbs and there was enough land in the suburbs that the city hasn't been gentrified.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on April 29, 2014, 04:24:16 PM
According to this WSJ article (http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303939404579529672654374090-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwODEyNDgyWj), Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta were in the mix. So maybe John's Creek was under consideration.

Some other interesting tidbits from the article:
A challenge for Toyota will be avoiding a brain drain. Nissan retained just 32% of its workforce when it relocated from the Los Angeles area to Franklin, Tenn., outside of Nashville. Many more employees returned to California after a few years, said Larry Dominique, who was the chief of U.S. product planning for Nissan at the time and now is president of Automotive Lease Guide, a unit of TrueCar Inc.

The auto maker also has a small manufacturing operation in Long Beach, Calif. Toyota said its design studio and several other smaller functions would remain in California, keeping its total workforce there at 2,300.


I love that Texas taxpayers are paying $40M to make it happen.

So much for "limited government."
Steal jobs from one state, put them in another. Zero-sum corp welfare check.
At least $40mil to build a bridge or wind farm is a net +ive. Creates jobs, adds infrastructure.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 04:26:17 PM
But your premise is flawed.

SoCal is not Detroit in that there will always be replacements because of the superior location and availability of quality workers.

Detroit can't be the blueprint because the location itself does not have the same advantages.

maybe i didnt make it clear. IF - companies left a in mass quantities. i said i didnt think it would happen in Socal, but IF companies left and new ones didnt step in.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 04:32:39 PM
The song remains the same.  Nissan moved for the very same reasons and it was not all about the real estate....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/business/10cnd-nissan.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/business/10cnd-nissan.html?_r=0)

Nissan's decision to move its North American headquarters to Tennessee, where there is no state income tax and it cost 44 percent less to do business than in California, comes as the company and other automakers are cutting costs in a tough North American business climate. High gasoline prices, stiff competition and consumer fatigue have combined to slash auto sales in the United States.

That was 9 years ago and the only thing that has changed is....things got worse.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
@qwerty:

You agree with me that half the businesses won't leave Irvine (or that replacements will happen) but then you say to tell that to Detroit. My point is you can't even bring up Detroit as an example because it's not the same as Irvine in the most important ways.

Again, your premise won't happen. I can guarantee it... even in the long term. Before that does, gubment intervention will save Irvine, just like when the bubble popped.

If the stock market crash of '08, the death of banks and the credit crunch can't kill Irvine RE prices, nothing can.

I bet even a zombacolypse won't affect us (have you seen Warm Bodies where the zombies regain their humanity and one becomes a realtor, I bet he was selling homes in Irvine). :)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 29, 2014, 04:58:28 PM
The song remains the same.  Nissan moved for the very same reasons and it was not all about the real estate....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/business/10cnd-nissan.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/business/10cnd-nissan.html?_r=0)

Nissan's decision to move its North American headquarters to Tennessee, where there is no state income tax and it cost 44 percent less to do business than in California, comes as the company and other automakers are cutting costs in a tough North American business climate. High gasoline prices, stiff competition and consumer fatigue have combined to slash auto sales in the United States.

That was 9 years ago and the only thing that has changed is....things got worse.


People said this when the aerospace industry and the military moved out.  But yet, California still has the biggest economy by far for US. 

California should not start a race to the bottom like Texas.  Just like the US shouldn't compete with with China and Vietnam for cheap labor. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 05:09:08 PM
Put it this way, you can get more than an acre in TX for way less than a no-backyard/no driveway/neighbor shade lot in Irvine... but people still choose and pay for CA.

I imagine what's going to be left of the CA jobscape is high paying jobs in finance, technology, service etc. All those blue collar jobs that don't have the margins to afford CA's business expenses will go out of state.

So with all these high salaried employees... where do you think CA RE prices are going to go for premium areas?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 29, 2014, 05:11:37 PM
Put it this way, you can get more than an acre in TX for way less than a no-backyard/no driveway/neighbor shade lot in Irvine... but people still choose and pay for CA.

I imagine what's going to be left of the CA jobscape is high paying jobs in finance, technology, service etc. All those blue collar jobs that don't have the margins to afford CA's business expenses will go out of state.

So with all these high salaried employees... where do you think CA RE prices are going to go for premium areas?

Also...geographic and social benefits of California cannot be overstated.  There is a good reason why Indian and Chinese FCBs came to California, not Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 05:37:19 PM
The problem is you will get "Escape from New York"  in reverse.  The beach cities will wall in and defend while the rest of the state turns into the central valley.  High unemployment, high crime and the largest welfare state on earth.   Can Elysium support the masses?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 06:01:53 PM
You are right that this has been a long term trend. I don't want to move to Texas but I sure would like to see some of their policies implemented here.   In the end it is a battle of political ideologies and I think in the end Texas model is better for all involved.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/307111-economic-growth-texas-california-and-revisions (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/307111-economic-growth-texas-california-and-revisions)

The BEA revised California’s real GDP growth downward from 2009 to 2011 in each of three years by a cumulative 2.6 percent, the third-largest negative revision in the nation.
 
In other words, California’s economy shrank an additional 2.6 percent before it grew 3.5 percent.
 
So, in the past five years California’s real GDP contracted 0.3 percent, one of ten states where economic activity was less in 2012 than it was in 2008.
 
By contrast, the BEA revised Texas’ growth upward by 0.5 percent from 2009 to 2011.
 
Texas’ newly revised real GDP growth from 2009 to 2012 was 13 percent.
 
From 2009 to 2012, California’s share of the U.S. economy shrank from 13.1 percent to 12.9 percent while Texas’ portion of the American economy increased from 8.2 percent to 9 percent.
 
Some critics might contend that Texas’ economic boom is wholly due to the revitalization of the Lone Star State’s oil and gas fields through fracking. However, if the entire mining sector is removed from the calculations, Texas’ economy would have still grown at a faster pace than California’s from 2009 to 2012. Further, California has about two-thirds of the nation’s proven shale oil reserves in the vast Monterey Shale formation—that the Golden State makes the political choice not to allow the extraction of this underground wealth can’t be held against Texas.
 
There’s another interesting data nugget to be mined out of BEA’s revisions. Looking at the year-by-year real GDP revisions for California, we see that California’s output was revised downward 0.4 percent in 2009, 1.4 percent in 2010, and 0.8 percent in 2011. What most people have already forgotten is that California enacted a $24 billion, two-year tax increase in 2009, the largest state-level tax hike in U.S. history. This tax increase boosted income taxes, sales taxes, and vehicle taxes and was in full effect in 2010, then phased out in 2011. The greatest downward revision in California’s economy was in 2010, the year when the whole weight of the tax increase was being felt. The BEA now estimates that California’s 2010 output grew at an anemic 0.3 percent, down from the previously estimated 1.7 percent. The overall U.S. economy grew at a revised 2.4 percent that year, eight times California’s pace. Texas’ economy expanded 4.1 percent, 71% more rapidly than the national economy.
 
In 2012, California’s temporary tax increase fully expired. Not coincidentally, California’s economic performance that year, 3.5 percent growth, outpaced the 2.5 percent growth of the U.S. economy. This was first time in several years that California’s economy grew faster than the U.S. economy—a regular occurrence for Texas.
 
Slow growth has a direct bearing on prosperity and poverty. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, from 2009 to 2011, California’s supplemental poverty measure was 23.5 percent, the highest in the nation with 42 percent more people living in poverty as a share of the population than in Texas.
 
It will be highly instructive in the coming quarters to see if California can continue to exceed the national growth rate, especially after California voters approved a big tax increase last November which made California’s income tax the highest in the nation.
 
Texas, on the other hand, looks set to enact a modest tax cut.
 
The public policy contrast between the two largest states couldn’t be clearer.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on April 29, 2014, 06:48:37 PM
I don't want to move to Texas but I sure would like to see some of their policies implemented here.   In the end it is a battle of political ideologies and I think in the end Texas model is better for all involved.
What happens if all states try to adopt the Texas "model?" It stops working. No states to steal jobs from anymore so no net new job creation. But all workers would have fewer benefits, fewer protections, and lower wages (kind of like a BRIC country). GDP would be lower. Peeps can't afford to buy as much stuff so corp profits go down too. But corporations would get taxpayer paid welfare.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 07:02:13 PM
Not so.  Texas is not supporting its economy by simply poaching it.  It is attracting them and GROWING them organically.  Growth increases their standard of living.  This is not a zero sum game as you postulate.  The pie slices up healthier  the bigger you make the pie. Just the one observation of exploiting the vast energy deposits we sit on could fuel massive economic prosperity for ALL Californians but alas, our current system will never allow that to happen.  Other states don't see it that way which is why they grow and we shrink.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on April 29, 2014, 07:49:13 PM
Not so.  Texas is not supporting its economy by simply poaching it.  It is attracting them and GROWING them organically.  Growth increases their standard of living.  This is not a zero sum game as you postulate.  The pie slices up healthier  the bigger you make the pie. Just the one observation of exploiting the vast energy deposits we sit on could fuel massive economic prosperity for ALL Californians but alas, our current system will never allow that to happen.  Other states don't see it that way which is why they grow and we shrink.
Paying Toyota $40mil to move 1k jobs from CA to TX is zero-sum. What happens if all states follow this strategy? Will it still work? Growing one pie short-term at the expense of another is nothing to be in awe over.

Organic growth would be if you took $40mil, invested it in infrastructure (airports, public transport, roads, etc.), schools, worker training, etc. that made the state long-term more competitive and attractive for growth. This is NOT the TX model.

Perry is loud and proud of his poaching strategy. No reason to see it as something grander than that.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 29, 2014, 07:49:33 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 29, 2014, 07:51:40 PM
Sounds like traffic will decrease a bit.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 08:11:38 PM
I can tell you from personal experience of and actual friend of mine.  Built a thriving 200 plus business in SM.  Raging Democrat who moved his entire company to Austin 2 years ago.  Took over 120 six figure plus salaries with him.  Reason...lower taxes, lower regulation. lower cost of living and I can tell you that after 2 years he has massive retention. He was not poached...the numbers penciled out too well.   Swears not only would he NEVER start a biz in Cali again, but he is never coming back.  This was a NATIVE, organic entrepreneur.  We cannot lose guys like that.  They create jobs, families, tax payers and consumers.  The multiplier effect of just that one very successful biz is astonishing.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Park on April 29, 2014, 09:36:37 PM
I think we should start taxing all corporations outside of CA that do business in CA at least 1-5% of their CA sales regardless of profit. Those that are headquartered here wouldn't be affected by this tax. Probably could result in a tax cut to all businesses and individuals in CA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 09:50:09 PM
I think we should start taxing all corporations outside of CA that do business in CA at least 1-5% of their CA sales regardless of profit. Those that are headquartered here wouldn't be affected by this tax. Probably could result in a tax cut to all businesses and individuals in CA.

Anyone? anyone...know what a disaster the "Smoot-Hawley Act"  was?...Anyone?  Anyone?

http://youtu.be/uhiCFdWeQfA (http://youtu.be/uhiCFdWeQfA)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Park on April 29, 2014, 09:56:28 PM
I love that episode. That is hilarious.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Park on April 29, 2014, 10:02:17 PM
But my proposal will still work.
NBA players and all other professional athletes that are out of state pay Ca income tax when they play at the staples center. Why shouldn't companies pay to play in CA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 29, 2014, 10:52:05 PM
Even the bureaucrats blame the bureaucracy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101625195 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101625195)


Torrance Mayor Frank Scotto blames the state of California for Toyota Motor's decision to relocate its North American headquarters from the city to Plano, Texas.

"The state of California lost Toyota," Scotto said on "Power Lunch" Tuesday.

He pointed to a number of issues in the Golden State that negatively affect companies' bottom line: tax structure, workers' compensation and liability insurance.

"There are so many other levels of problems that we face in California that make it very difficult for any business to be in the state of California," he added.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 29, 2014, 11:01:36 PM
@morekaos:

For every one of your friends who leaves Cali, I still think there are two or more who start up in Cali.

All these people have to be coming from somewhere... in Irvine alone, the population has increased almost 100k since 2000.

With so many people here in the suburbs, there is a lot of support for smaller retailers/restaurants/service companies. There is something to be said about the population concentration in Cali cities versus the spread out in TX.

Whenever a window closes, a door opens. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 29, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
@morekaos:

For every one of your friends who leaves Cali, I still think there are two or more who start up in Cali.

All these people have to be coming from somewhere... in Irvine alone, the population has increased almost 100k since 2000.

With so many people here in the suburbs, there is a lot of support for smaller retailers/restaurants/service companies. There is something to be said about the population concentration in Cali cities versus the spread out in TX.

Whenever a window closes, a door opens. :)

While I agree with this comment.. why not try to be more competitive at the same time?  Sounds like our "leaders" are asleep at the wheel instead of growing the sunshine state. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on April 29, 2014, 11:42:08 PM
I think we should start taxing all corporations outside of CA that do business in CA at least 1-5% of their CA sales regardless of profit. Those that are headquartered here wouldn't be affected by this tax. Probably could result in a tax cut to all businesses and individuals in CA.

Most states charge taxes on profit, few charge taxes as a percentage of sales. Companies not headquartered in california already pay california income taxes if they have operations here in california. A company, regardless if where it's headquartered pays income taxes in the states where they have nexus based on apportionment factors. Essentially they pay taxes just like the nba players that live in Miami but played a game at staples.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
@morekaos:

For every one of your friends who leaves Cali, I still think there are two or more who start up in Cali.

All these people have to be coming from somewhere... in Irvine alone, the population has increased almost 100k since 2000.

With so many people here in the suburbs, there is a lot of support for smaller retailers/restaurants/service companies. There is something to be said about the population concentration in Cali cities versus the spread out in TX.

Whenever a window closes, a door opens. :)

That is a valid point but what are you replacing these business with?  What you lose is a vibrant, successful, mature and growing, tax paying base and you get my Tita Chit opening a gold coin store on the corner.  For every high profile exit please show me what established business have recently announced with fanfare that they are moving to our sunny shores?  If you use the Hyundai ex  than you have to go with the poached tax incentive reasoning.  Over the last 10 years the vibrant companies that started here, mature then head for the exits.  Apple, Tesla, United Healthcare and Oxy to name but a few.  Legacy Elec, EDM Labs and MVM Tech in the OC.  This is a real problem for us.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on April 30, 2014, 08:16:25 AM


That is a valid point but what are you replacing these business with?  What you lose is a vibrant, successful, mature and growing, tax paying base and you get my Tita Chit opening a gold coin store on the corner.  For every high profile exit please show me what established business have recently announced with fanfare that they are moving to our sunny shores?  If you use the Hyundai ex  than you have to go with the poached tax incentive reasoning.  Over the last 10 years the vibrant companies that started here, mature then head for the exits.  Apple, Tesla, United Healthcare and Oxy to name but a few.  Legacy Elec, EDM Labs and MVM Tech in the OC.  This is a real problem for us.

Amazon tech staff grows in O.C.
http://www.ocregister.com/lansner/amazon-446599-a2z-strong.html

Google & Microsoft also have offices here in Irvine.

I wouldn't call those Tita Chit gold & pawn.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 08:37:44 AM
All three of those companies are expanding their footprint EVERYWHERE.  Relatively speaking their additions here are modest compared to what they are doing in other states.  A California presence is necessary for now for ANY international business.  I am talking about an announcement like Microsoft moving its main operations here from Redmond...show me one of those.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 08:55:35 AM
All three of those companies are expanding their footprint EVERYWHERE.  Relatively speaking their additions here are modest compared to what they are doing in other states.  A California presence is necessary for now for ANY international business.  I am talking about an announcement like Microsoft moving its main operations here from Redmond...show me one of those.

California still have the most number of Fortune 500 companies (54).  New York has 52 and Texas has 52 but a large chunk of those are related to energy/oil/mining.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 09:04:34 AM
All three of those companies are expanding their footprint EVERYWHERE.  Relatively speaking their additions here are modest compared to what they are doing in other states.  A California presence is necessary for now for ANY international business.  I am talking about an announcement like Microsoft moving its main operations here from Redmond...show me one of those.

California still have the most number of Fortune 500 companies (54).  New York has 52 and Texas has 52 but a large chunk of those are related to energy/oil/mining.



That was 57 in January before Charles Schwab, Chevron and Campbells Soup announced they were leaving.  That number will continue to shrink. Again, show me a Fortune 500 Company in the last 5 years who has announced they are coming.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 09:13:08 AM
All three of those companies are expanding their footprint EVERYWHERE.  Relatively speaking their additions here are modest compared to what they are doing in other states.  A California presence is necessary for now for ANY international business.  I am talking about an announcement like Microsoft moving its main operations here from Redmond...show me one of those.

California still have the most number of Fortune 500 companies (54).  New York has 52 and Texas has 52 but a large chunk of those are related to energy/oil/mining.



That was 57 in January before Charles Schwab, Chevron and Campbells Soup announced they were leaving.  That number will continue to shrink. Again, show me a Fortune 500 Company in the last 5 years who has announced they are coming.

Campbell's HQ has always been in New Jersey.  They closed a plant in California because of lagging sales.

Chevron moved some jobs from San Ramon to Texas but are still based in San Ramon.  It make sense for Chevron to be in Texas because the number of energy/oil companies in Texas and its proximity to the Gulf of Mexico. 

Charles Schwab is still based in SF.  They talked about adding a center in Denver but remains in SF.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2013/05/schwab-headquarters-san-francisco-denver.html?page=all

Toyota moving to Texas makes a lot sense beyond the tax issues.  They have multiple plants in the area.

Everything you say about California can be said about the United States 10 years ago...companies are starting to move back to the US after 10-15 years overseas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 09:28:38 AM
An American icon, the Campbell Soup Company, is closing its plant in Sacramento, leaving 700 people without jobs. The plant was built in 1947, and some of its workers have worked there for forty years or more.

Most of the items produced in Sacramento will be transferred to Campbell’s plants in Texas, North Carolina, and Ohio.

 Comcast announced two days ago that it will close all three of its call centers in Northern California, including one in Sacramento. 1,000 Comcast employees, including 300 in Sacramento, will have to pull up stakes.

That’s 800 jobs out the door which gives Chevron a larger presence in Texas than it still has in California

Charles Schwab's plans to move about 1,000 jobs from San Francisco to Texas inflamed Texans who fear that more Californians will ruin the Lone Star State

These numbers are disastrous.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 09:35:18 AM
An American icon, the Campbell Soup Company, is closing its plant in Sacramento, leaving 700 people without jobs. The plant was built in 1947, and some of its workers have worked there for forty years or more.

Most of the items produced in Sacramento will be transferred to Campbell’s plants in Texas, North Carolina, and Ohio.

 Comcast announced two days ago that it will close all three of its call centers in Northern California, including one in Sacramento. 1,000 Comcast employees, including 300 in Sacramento, will have to pull up stakes.

That’s 800 jobs out the door which gives Chevron a larger presence in Texas than it still has in California

Charles Schwab's plans to move about 1,000 jobs from San Francisco to Texas inflamed Texans who fear that more Californians will ruin the Lone Star State

These numbers are disastrous.

Wait...you need to figure out your narrative. 

Again...lower end jobs will flow out of a state like California because of higher living costs in California and lower wages elsewhere.   Of course Chevron has a bigger presence in Texas...they have a lot more plants/wells/refineries in Texas than in California.

The Campbell plant shutdown has to do with lagging sales.

Really, disastrous?  There are 17 million people employed in California.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
Collectively these are good, stable, high paying jobs.  My Tita Chit can't pay her counter people comparable salary and benefits.  Not only that, these announcements are all happening in a very short period of time.  The ones we are discussing have happened in the last 4 months.  I understand the long term argument but this is an accelerating near term trend that has little to balance the losses.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 09:41:07 AM
Jobs are jobs.

Even if we have only 5 F500 companies in Cali, if they supply a large amount of jobs and salaries, that even outs.

Or what about more smaller companies with less employees? Instead of 1 company with 120 6-figure salaries, what's so bad about 2 companies with 60 6-figure salaries or 200 companies with 6 5-figure salaries?

I don't mind Tita Chit and her Gold store on the corner... small businesses are just as important to local economies as F500 companies.

Like I was telling qwerchete, no matter how many companies leave Cali, there will always be some companies starting up or moving to Cali. They may not be the same size and magnitude individually, but collectively, it's probably more coming in than going out (or else population would not be growing year over year).

There are 5m more people in Cali compared to 2000. There are 1m+ more jobs in Cali since 2010, so whatever happened from 2008-2010 has seemed to been reversed.

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/employment/california/

(http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chxt=x,y&cht=lc&chs=594x200&chxs=0,666666,11,.3|1,666666,11,-1&chd=s:GHHIJKKLLMMNONONMMLLLKKJJJKKKKJKKKKKJJJJJJJJJJJJKKLLLLMMMNOOOOPPPQRRSSTTTUUUVVVWWWWWWXXWXXYXXXXXWXWWWVVUTSQPNLJIHGEDDDDDCCCDEEEDDEEFFFFFFFGGHHHIJJKKKLLMMOPPQQRSSSTUUUVWVWW,fggggggghijkllllkkjjjijjjjjiiiiiiiijjjjiihhhiijkkkkkkkllmnnoooppqqqrrssssstttttuvvwxxwwwwwwwwwxxxxxxwwvvutsrpomlkjihggggghhiiiiiiiijjkkkkjkklmnooopppppqrstuuvvwwwwwwwxxyzz&chxl=0:|2000||||||||||||||||||||||||2002||||||||||||||||||||||||2004||||||||||||||||||||||||2006||||||||||||||||||||||||2008||||||||||||||||||||||||2010||||||||||||||||||||||||2012||||||||||||||||||||||||2014|||1:|14,000K|14,750K|15,500K|16,250K|17,000K|17,750K&chg=14.12,20.00,1,2,0.00,0&chco=0000cc,1db725,ffa500,ff1100,555555&chf=c,ls,0,ffffff,0.0833,f5f5f5,0.0536,ffffff,0.4286,f5f5f5,0.1131,ffffff,0.3274)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 09:48:07 AM
It is the "quality" of those SP500 jobs that are hard to replace.  Additionally the reason Chevron has moved so many jobs out is this state refuses to allow them to do what they do.  Regulatory strangle will not let an oil company function and expand here.  Look at Waste management.  They tried for ten years to get approval for a recycling facility to be built here.  Futile and expensive.  They opened the very facility in Arizona and went from white board to operation in just 2 years.  Good long term facility and good jobs....gone
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 09:49:10 AM
California ranked second in job gained last year just behind Texas.  Most of the Texas' jobs are from oil/mining while California's job gains are very broadbased. 

Quote
While Obama deserves credit for a clever bit of political jiujitsu—seeing Perry’s pro-government job creation claims and raising them $200 million—there’s one problem: the Texas jobs miracle has little or nothing to do with the policies implemented by either the state or federal governments, at least not in this country. Rather, they’re the result primarily of three things: geology, demography and geography.

First geology. You’ve heard that Texas has oil and gas. Well, thanks to the technological leaps allowing the extraction of oil and gas from shale formations, Texas has a lot more of both. From 2011-12 its Eagle Ford shale formation tripled its oil output, and oil production statewide could double by 2020.

Next, demography. Texas has benefited from that biggest of political hot potatoes, immigration. Rather than being a drag on the state’s economy, the steady influx of workers has fueled growth–according to economists [pdf] at the Dallas Federal Reserve–giving the state new, eager workers across a variety of employment areas.

Finally, Texas has benefited from geography. With its long land border with Mexico and its port access to the Gulf, Texas is a trade giant with Latin America...

http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/10/obama-and-perry-and-the-texas-job-miracle/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 09:51:16 AM
It is the "quality" of those SP500 jobs that are hard to replace.  Additionally the reason Chevron has moved so many jobs out is this state refuses to allow them to do what they do.  Regulatory strangle will not let an oil company function and expand here.  Look at Waste management.  They tried for ten years to get approval for a recycling facility to be built here.  Futile and expensive.  They opened the very facility in Arizona and went from white board to operation in just 2 years.  Good long term facility and good jobs....gone

Really?  The "quality" of those jobs?  The ones you listed were for call centers (low wages), soup factories (also relatively low wages), and oil exploration (geograhically based). 

Schwab is going to move 1,000 jobs in the next 3 to 5 years.  Part of the reason why Schwab is doing so is because:

Quote
Bulgatz said the company also has had difficulty recruiting in the Bay Area because of the intense competition for top talent.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_25084768/charles-schwab-move-1-000-jobs-out-san

Again...two completely different business models between California and Texas.  Texas relies on oil/energy industries and a race to the bottom to try and poach jobs away from other states.  California seeks to keep top level job with an educated and diverse workforce.  For example, California is the leader in green jobs by far because of the level of workers needed as well as California' long support for environmental protection.

Personally, I like to be in a state that is looking forward rather than staying in the past.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Park on April 30, 2014, 10:00:22 AM
What about Henkel?

http://www.circuitsassembly.com/cms/magazine/94/912
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 10:05:52 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that the recruitment issues were very secondary. That was a ploy for lipstick on a pig pc press answers.

"Observers close to the situation blame the city’s extreme payroll tax and high cost of doing business in California as the reasons for the company’s exodus."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 10:08:18 AM
From the prospective of a up and coming CEO

Quote
Keller Rinaudo, the company's founder, spoke to us via Skype late last week to explain the decision to move from a low-tax state to a back to California.

He said he actually agreed with the criticisms that folks like Perry have made, to a point.

"It was not a short-term economic decision," he said. "California is one of the most friendly and unfriendly business environments in the world."

The company anticipates more taxes and a higher cost of living, he said.

But to achieve their goal of building the world's first affordable personal robot, they had to be on the West Coast.

"We have to find experienced roboticists, and that really only exists in a few places in the world, and California is one of them."

Quote
And for tech, the Valley is still where the money is.

"I know lots of other tech companies that end up moving to the Bay Area, I think in a lot of cases though it has to do with needing investment. We're backed by a lot of really strong investors, and then finding proximity to a research center...We're building robots, not building an e-commerce store."

http://www.businessinsider.com/robotics-startup-ceo-on-moving-to-california-2013-4
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 10:10:57 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that the recruitment issues were very secondary. That was a ploy for lipstick on a pig pc press answers.

"Observers close to the situation blame the city’s extreme payroll tax and high cost of doing business in California as the reasons for the company’s exodus."

It's both.  Again, California is placing a big tax burden on companies because it can.  Texas cannot.  California have many advantages over other states.  Again, replace "California" with "United States" and you have the exact same situation.

There are jobs that simply cannot exist in California anymore due to environment regulations and high costs of living.  But environment regulation means cleaner air and beautiful environment while high cost of living is the result of high wages. 

The other interesting is that the turnaround came as the result of the Dems having a supermajority in legislature which prevented all the gridlock that Republicans were throwing up.  Gridlock is far worse than regulation or high cost of living.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 10:14:00 AM
It is the "quality" of those SP500 jobs that are hard to replace.
Quality is relative. Many value the job of $10/hr worker at a fast food place just as much as a CEO of an F500.
Quote
Additionally the reason Chevron has moved so many jobs out is this state refuses to allow them to do what they do.  Regulatory strangle will not let an oil company function and expand here.  Look at Waste management.  They tried for ten years to get approval for a recycling facility to be built here.
I might be the only one but aren't those regulations meant to protect the land, environment and population? I'm okay with not having fuel processing and waste recycling in Cali.
Quote
They opened the very facility in Arizona and went from white board to operation in just 2 years.  Good long term facility and good jobs....gone.
Smell... also gone. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 10:42:33 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that the recruitment issues were very secondary. That was a ploy for lipstick on a pig pc press answers.

"Observers close to the situation blame the city’s extreme payroll tax and high cost of doing business in California as the reasons for the company’s exodus."

It's both.  Again, California is placing a big tax burden on companies because it can.  Texas cannot.  California have many advantages over other states.  Again, replace "California" with "United States" and you have the exact same situation.

There are jobs that simply cannot exist in California anymore due to environment regulations and high costs of living.  But environment regulation means cleaner air and beautiful environment while high cost of living is the result of high wages. 

The other interesting is that the turnaround came as the result of the Dems having a supermajority in legislature which prevented all the gridlock that Republicans were throwing up.  Gridlock is far worse than regulation or high cost of living.

I disagree, Gridlock has been the only thing preventing the US from becoming Cali.  This state is in serious financial denial.   One side having its way is never good.  Gridlock in DC is not the system broken, it is the system functioning perfectly, checking absolute power and balancing the equation.  Why do you think the markets have moved up while DC argues with itself?  Markets love divided government, it keeps them from meddling.  CA is now free to spin itself further down the rabbit hole with no checks to cushion the landing.  The fruits of that one sided government are clear in this exact discussion.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 10:49:55 AM
What about Henkel?

http://www.circuitsassembly.com/cms/magazine/94/912


Not a very big facility and that was 7 years ago.  Henkel/Loctite is a huge German multinational that only employs' 5000 in the US and even that number is spread over 45 facilities in around 10 states...going to have to do better than that.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 11:47:05 AM
From the prospective of a up and coming CEO

Quote
Keller Rinaudo, the company's founder, spoke to us via Skype late last week to explain the decision to move from a low-tax state to a back to California.

He said he actually agreed with the criticisms that folks like Perry have made, to a point.

"It was not a short-term economic decision," he said. "California is one of the most friendly and unfriendly business environments in the world."

The company anticipates more taxes and a higher cost of living, he said.

But to achieve their goal of building the world's first affordable personal robot, they had to be on the West Coast.

"We have to find experienced roboticists, and that really only exists in a few places in the world, and California is one of them."

Quote
And for tech, the Valley is still where the money is.

"I know lots of other tech companies that end up moving to the Bay Area, I think in a lot of cases though it has to do with needing investment. We're backed by a lot of really strong investors, and then finding proximity to a research center...We're building robots, not building an e-commerce store."

http://www.businessinsider.com/robotics-startup-ceo-on-moving-to-california-2013-4

And look at where that very same CEO decides to send the jobs creating his little robot....not Cali..

"Romotive now employs at least 20 people; a plant in China now manufactures the tiny robot. Rinaudo wrote that the company has signed its single largest order for 10,000 Romos."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 11:59:56 AM
From the prospective of a up and coming CEO

Quote
Keller Rinaudo, the company's founder, spoke to us via Skype late last week to explain the decision to move from a low-tax state to a back to California.

He said he actually agreed with the criticisms that folks like Perry have made, to a point.

"It was not a short-term economic decision," he said. "California is one of the most friendly and unfriendly business environments in the world."

The company anticipates more taxes and a higher cost of living, he said.

But to achieve their goal of building the world's first affordable personal robot, they had to be on the West Coast.

"We have to find experienced roboticists, and that really only exists in a few places in the world, and California is one of them."

Quote
And for tech, the Valley is still where the money is.

"I know lots of other tech companies that end up moving to the Bay Area, I think in a lot of cases though it has to do with needing investment. We're backed by a lot of really strong investors, and then finding proximity to a research center...We're building robots, not building an e-commerce store."

http://www.businessinsider.com/robotics-startup-ceo-on-moving-to-california-2013-4

And look at where that very same CEO decides to send the jobs creating his little robot....not Cali..

"Romotive now employs at least 20 people; a plant in China now manufactures the tiny robot. Rinaudo wrote that the company has signed its single largest order for 10,000 Romos."

Or the United States regardless of tax breaks or "lack of regulations."  California (United States) cannot prevail in a game of race to the bottom...it must innovate and pioneer new fields.  Those new fields require highly educated workforces, which California has..
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 12:12:22 PM
I don't think that's true.  If you did not have all the overregulation, overbearing insurance, overburdening tax system I would wager you could get those nifty little robots manufactured in the central valley (double digit unemployment) for even less when you factor in all the transport and assembly costs.  It would never happen but I bet we could do it for just as cheap if not cheaper.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 30, 2014, 12:17:51 PM
The thing we can all agree on is that if you type in red.. people will read.  lol
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 12:18:45 PM
Doesn't all manufacturing happen in China? :)

Rotomotive is still located in San Fran where they design the robots.

Apple still has most of its design staff in Cupertino... the brains of the operations. But the products are built in China just like Rotomotive.

Seems like morekaos are cherry picking here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 12:23:48 PM
Doesn't all manufacturing happen in China? :)

Rotomotive is still located in San Fran where they design the robots.

Apple still has most of its design staff in Cupertino... the brains of the operations. But the products are built in China just like Rotomotive.

Seems like morekaos are cherry picking here.

Not so, it goes to the very heart of our discussion.  Make it biz friendly and they not only will keep it here, they'll grow I here.  The current economic environment is toxic to both.  Whether it is a mature company (Apple) or a startup (Rotomotive).  Give them the choice and I guarantee they would rather have it ALL right here.  But alas,  I yearn for the sky.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 12:24:02 PM
If you did not have all the overregulation, overbearing insurance, overburdening tax system I would wager you could get those nifty little robots manufactured in the central valley (double digit unemployment) for even less when you factor in all the transport and assembly costs.  It would never happen but I bet we could do it for just as cheap if not cheaper.
You can't have it both ways.

If you want a democratic government where workers have rights and are protected with liability insurance, overtime wages, workers comp, there will be added cost.

You've read reports of the working conditions and wages in China (and labor farms in 3rd world countries), we would have riots in the US if that was the same here.

I've never understood this argument. It's very hard to match overseas costs due to differences in government and worker's rights. Would you rather our labor force be treated the same as abroad?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 30, 2014, 12:30:51 PM
 8)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 12:32:57 PM
Where we can make it up is in efficiency, streamlined regulation (not non-existent regulation) infrastructure, wishfully a simplified tax system and arguably a stable political system.  For all the hemming and hawing we are still the second largest manufacturer on earth.  Pile on top of that a stable and reliable energy source (fracking) and we have all we need to compete.  We just lack the will to implement it as a country and a state.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 12:48:43 PM
Doesn't all manufacturing happen in China? :)

Rotomotive is still located in San Fran where they design the robots.

Apple still has most of its design staff in Cupertino... the brains of the operations. But the products are built in China just like Rotomotive.

Seems like morekaos are cherry picking here.

Not so, it goes to the very heart of our discussion.  Make it biz friendly and they not only will keep it here, they'll grow I here.  The current economic environment is toxic to both.  Whether it is a mature company (Apple) or a startup (Rotomotive).  Give them the choice and I guarantee they would rather have it ALL right here.  But alas,  I yearn for the sky.

This had nothing to do with "business friendly." It was about consolidating operations from multiple offices/states to a low cost area (mainly salaries), with the spillover benefit of putting Toyota in a market they badly need to win in order to grow (trucks / southwest).

It was not the ONLY reason but it was a significant part of it.  Of course there were strategic reasons but Business Friendly made the difference.  This is stuff they used to say about US.
 
"There’s a lot for any state to like in landing Toyota’s headquarters. The average salaries for the 4,000 jobs in Plano will be in the six figures, sources said, far more than manufacturing wages — meaning that Toyota’s Texas employees will have plenty of income to spread around.

That’s not to mention the obvious prestige of landing Japan’s largest automaker and the knock-on benefits to Texas of continuing to emerge as a new geographic powerhouse as the U.S. auto industry restructures. There are existing Toyota and General Motors truck plants in the state.
So was the chance for lower corporate operating costs across the board. “The business climate in Texas is very good overall, but particularly for large corporations,” Gigerich said. “That’s a tremendous positive. There will be enormous savings for Toyota right off the bat.”

It also helped the case for Texas that the costs of living will be much lower for Toyota managers in North Texas than in Southern California, that they’ll be able to afford bigger houses, that they won’t have to pay state income taxes — and that there’s a local NFL team to root for."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 01:20:09 PM
"It also helped the case for Texas that the costs of living will be much lower for Toyota managers in North Texas than in Southern California, that they’ll be able to afford bigger houses, that they won’t have to pay state income taxes — and that there’s a local NFL team to root for."
But super hot weather, beaches are much farther away, property taxes are double and instead of the Lakers or Clippers, they have the Mavericks. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 30, 2014, 01:31:42 PM
"It also helped the case for Texas that the costs of living will be much lower for Toyota managers in North Texas than in Southern California, that they’ll be able to afford bigger houses, that they won’t have to pay state income taxes — and that there’s a local NFL team to root for."
But super hot weather, beaches are much farther away, property taxes are double and instead of the Lakers or Clippers, they have the Mavericks. :)

Correction: NBA teams they have the Mavericks, Spurs, and Rockets.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
"It also helped the case for Texas that the costs of living will be much lower for Toyota managers in North Texas than in Southern California, that they’ll be able to afford bigger houses, that they won’t have to pay state income taxes — and that there’s a local NFL team to root for."
But super hot weather, beaches are much farther away, property taxes are double and instead of the Lakers or Clippers, they have the Mavericks. :)

Correction: NBA teams they have the Mavericks, Spurs, and Rockets.


Actually, I had originally wrote that but then looked at a map of Texas. Plano is so far from San Antonio and Houston, you might as well include the Thunder in your list.

Or I should add the Warriors and the Kings to mine.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on April 30, 2014, 01:38:01 PM
And yet companies (including Apple) are bringing back manufacturing jobs to the US due to better workers, copyright protection, easier management, and shipping costs.

California/US need to focus on high education/high skill jobs...not see how low we can drop wages or how much of our environment we can destroy.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 02:36:02 PM
Our system needs to concentrate on pumping out more and better engineers.  Not just higher educated kids with a BA in Medieval women's puppetering.  Notice Apple has not yet fulfilled that 2012 pledge to bring those jobs back?  They know we currently lack the skills in the current workforce to pull it off, no matter what state you are in,
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 30, 2014, 02:48:06 PM
I don't know what we can do as a state.  I keep voting one way.. and it goes opposite.  I just vote all Republican just for the heck of it LOL.  Doesn't work.  People get swayed here so easily with these lame propositions. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 02:50:51 PM
Our system needs to concentrate on pumping out more and better engineers.  Not just higher educated kids with a BA in Medieval women's puppetering.
Seems like this is personal to you because this sounds like rhetoric. The best engineering education is in the US so I don't know where you're getting your facts.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2014/engineering-mechanical#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/subject-ranking/subject/engineering-and-IT

The US is the only country that has 5 or more schools in the top 10 on both of those lists. The top university in the world is MIT, the 2nd... Stanford... both in the US.
Quote
Notice Apple has not yet fulfilled that 2012 pledge to bring those jobs back?  They know we currently lack the skills in the current workforce to pull it off, no matter what state you are in.
I'm assuming Apple is not bringing them back yet because of scale and cost... not because of lack of skills.

You seem to be trying to steer the narrative to support your opinion but the facts are not on your side.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 02:52:28 PM
I don't know what we can do as a state.  I keep voting one way.. and it goes opposite.  I just vote all Republican just for the heck of it LOL.  Doesn't work.  People get swayed here so easily with these lame propositions. 

No argument there but it makes me feel better that I tried.  Additionally, it gives me the right to bitch.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 30, 2014, 02:55:43 PM
I don't know what we can do as a state.  I keep voting one way.. and it goes opposite.  I just vote all Republican just for the heck of it LOL.  Doesn't work.  People get swayed here so easily with these lame propositions. 

No argument there but it makes me feel better that I tried.  Additionally, it gives me the right to bitch.


I think you might be preaching to the choir here.  lol.

remember that proposition that came out to tax people for schools but the money doesn't go to schools for at least 5 years?  what a joke.. nobody understood that our CA politicians were just seeking more revenue. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 03:02:01 PM
I am not arguing about the quality of our engineering schools.  I myself am a product of UCLA.  Apple has been very vocal from both Jobs and Cook about the woeful lack in this area..

Which brings us to engineers. Apple’s close cooperation with suppliers to develop new products means that it is wedded to its supply chain in China. It needs engineers and managers on the ground to continuously monitor developments at its component suppliers and manufacturers. And as it plans a wider array of products, it needs more engineers in China than ever before and has been aggressively trying to hire them in Shanghai and Taipei.

That’s why manufacturing jobs aren’t the only ones that may be difficult to move back to the U.S.

Additionally..
If you look at the reasons why Apple is manufacturing in China, you will find it is not necessarily about costs. As New York Times reporter Charles Duhigg explained to Ira Glass on This American Life the difference in labor costs between making the iPhone in China and the U.S. is somewhere between $10-$65 per piece. The main reason, according to Duhigg, is the flexibility within the Chinese supply chain that allows it to meet Apple’s requirements quickly and efficiently.

Apparently these factors are less critical when it comes to the assembly of iMacs, which represents only a small percentage of Apple’s sales. While Apple might not have too much to lose from this shift, it might have a lot to gain with growing political and public pressure on companies to bring back jobs to the U.S. That will probably become more of an issue for Apple with the re-election of President Obama.

Add to that Apple’s never-ending problems at Foxconn, as well as the approach that CEO Tim Cook has to this issue, and suddenly this shift seems more understandable. We’ll have to wait and see to what extent this change helps the company reshape its public image and block more unpleasant questions about why the most successful American company manufactures abroad.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
@morekaos:

I guess I should have wrote in crayon:

I'm assuming Apple is not bringing them back yet because of scale and cost... not because of lack of skills.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 04:08:17 PM
I agree with the scale issues but with double digit unemployment I think we could find them however, we still lack the right kind of education ....


Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualifiekd engineers in the United States.

In China, it took 15 days.

Companies like Apple “say the challenge in setting up U.S. plants is finding a technical work force,” said Martin Schmidt, associate provost at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In particular, companies say they need engineers with more than high school, but not necessarily a bachelor’s degree. Americans at that skill level are hard to find, executives contend. “They’re good jobs, but the country doesn’t have enough to feed the demand,” Mr. Schmidt said.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 30, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
This is funny. You are quoting articles that I had quoted on a different tech forum as to why Apple actually does production overseas (because someone was arguing how it was possible to do this in the US).

The things you are citing has nothing to do with deficiencies in the US or California, that is demographics. China has a much higher concentration of people who are educated in that manner because that's where the jobs are.

In Cali, there are a wide variety of jobs available and more spread, so it obviously harder to find that number of qualified engineers in a given area. You could use that same argument as to why Apple won't move manufacturing to Texas because if you can't find enough qualified engineers in Silicon Valley... imagine how much harder it would be to find them in oil country.

Again... you are steering the narrative.

Edit: I forgot to add... that's not a lack of education issue... that's still a scale issue.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 30, 2014, 05:34:38 PM
Actually we have careened off on a tangent.  I stand by my original narrative since I don't think Apple would move jobs back into Cali anyway.  Again, if they do bring back jobs I would wager the bulk of them would be in other states.  Maybe Texas, maybe not.  Maybe Nevada maybe Colorado but definitely not here for all the reasons I outlined above.  I am a native Californian. Born raised and educated right here in the South Bay.  Probably will die here no matter how bad it gets, but that won't stop me from hoping it will get better.  I hope I'm wrong, but I make a living being right.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: The California Court Company on April 30, 2014, 05:51:28 PM
Irvine vs. Plano/Dallas
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=Plano,%20TX&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=

Irvine vs. Johns Creek/Atlanta
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/compare/92697?sfld1=Irvine,%20CA%20%2892697%29&sfld2=johns%20creek&clocid1=USCA0517&clocid2=
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Tarmacpro on April 30, 2014, 08:27:01 PM
I agree first hand b/c I used to live in Dallas.  The talent pool is pretty good here but not as good as the bay area.

Companies do this all the time...they move to a state where they think has greener pastures only to find that there is a lack of high skill workers/employees.  While people complain about the cost of living in California, most high skilled and high earning workers still want to live here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on April 30, 2014, 08:44:15 PM
...with double digit unemployment I think we could find them however, we still lack the right kind of education ....
while we're on a tangent...there is no broad-based skilled labor gap. Skilled labor wages would be rising if there was a shortage as employers competed for talent. But skilled labor wages have been stagnant for many years.

The supposed gap is a self-serving and convenient myth perpetuated by corporate execs. Corp execs want *cheap*, skilled labor so they repeat the myth. And then the echo chamber takes over...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on April 30, 2014, 10:25:12 PM
Less than half of Nissan's staff took relo packages to Smyrna, TN.

I expect it will be the same for Toyota and Plano, TX.

That's despite knowing how much further your dollar goes there. As long as there's educated, smart, driven workforce in CA, business will be done here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 01, 2014, 07:25:44 AM
Less than half of Nissan's staff took relo packages to Smyrna, TN.

I expect it will be the same for Toyota and Plano, TX.

That's despite knowing how much further your dollar goes there. As long as there's educated, smart, driven workforce in CA, business will be done here.

That is sort of my point.  Wouldn't it have been better if those jobs stayed right here instead of losing half of them to TN?  Or wouldn't the 4000 plus, six figure jobs in Plano TX serve our better interest if they moved TO Torrance instead of TX?  These jobs were already here,  all we had to do was keep them and we couldn't even do that.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 01, 2014, 07:33:55 AM
@morekaos:

You are fudging your numbers for the dramatic. I don't think it's 4000+ 6-figure jobs, esp if half of them stay in Cali.

It's okay... like nature, Cali abhors a vacuum, more jobs will be created, for the 4000 positions taken away, 6000 will be created... that's the Cali economy. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 01, 2014, 08:08:22 AM
Not according to this Forbes article...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/29/its-not-about-incentives-toyotas-texas-move-is-a-corporate-culture-gambit/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/29/its-not-about-incentives-toyotas-texas-move-is-a-corporate-culture-gambit/)

"There’s a lot for any state to like in landing Toyota’s headquarters. The average salaries for the 4,000 jobs in Plano will be in the six figures, sources said, far more than manufacturing wages — meaning that Toyota’s Texas employees will have plenty of income to spread around."

But even if I stipulate it overstates the amount, what company is willing to move thousands of six figure jobs here today?  Not Toyota, or Nissan or Schwab.  Yes it makes the point in a stark, dramatic way.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 01, 2014, 08:17:27 AM
Have to agree with morekaos, no way an established company moved thousands of six figure jobs to CA. We may get some smaller new businesses that replace Toyota but at sone point if they mature texas will be right there waiting to lure them away
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 01, 2014, 09:04:27 AM
You have to be an optimist.

If thousands of 6-figure jobs are leaving Cali, that means RE prices will go down right? ;)

@qwerty:

Are you really worried that the Cali economy is going to go downhill like morekaos? And everyone is going to move to TX? I don't think TX is that much of a "lure". Would you want to move there?

This feels like much ado about nothing to me (obv except for the people who have to relocate). Like I said before, just like the bubble, the number of jobs in Cali will correct itself.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 01, 2014, 09:16:24 AM
I think I am being read all wrong.  I am neither pessimist or an optimist.  I just call it the way I see it.  This to me is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed.  Reaction by our politicians will either be by choice or forced upon them by the markets.  I have as much as stake as anyone here. I own a home, I work here and my family is here.  Of course I want us all to succeed.   I agree, that the system eventually rights itself but that doesn't change the process.  It is what it is, I am just pointing it out.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 01, 2014, 09:19:22 AM
You have to be an optimist.

If thousands of 6-figure jobs are leaving Cali, that means RE prices will go down right? ;)

@qwerty:

Are you really worried that the Cali economy is going to go downhill like morekaos? And everyone is going to move to TX? I don't think TX is that much of a "lure". Would you want to move there?

This feels like much ado about nothing to me (obv except for the people who have to relocate). Like I said before, just like the bubble, the number of jobs in Cali will correct itself.

i think CA will be fine, i think it could be better, and things may get a little worse, but i dont think it will deteriorate much more. 

i wouldnt move to texas, but i make a shitload of money and am extremely smart, great looking, excellent personality, etc, so ill always make a shitload of money in CA  ;D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on May 01, 2014, 09:23:34 AM
I think I am being read all wrong.  I am neither pessimist or an optimist.  I just call it the way I see it.  This to me is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed.  Reaction by our politicians will either be by choice or forced upon them by the markets.  I have as much as stake as anyone here. I own a home, I work here and my family is here.  Of course I want us all to succeed.   I agree, that the system eventually rights itself but that doesn't change the process.  It is what it is, I am just pointing it out.

I agree Mr. I like to shout in all red. Our politicians needs to cap real estate prices in SoCal at $200/sq ft for residential and $50/sq ft for commercial so that companies will stop moving for cheaper real estate. Remember to get out and vote and let your politicians know how you feel!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 01, 2014, 09:34:24 AM
i wouldnt move to texas, but i make a shitload of money and am extremely smart, great looking, excellent personality, etc, so ill always make a shitload of money in CA  ;D
And so diverse too:

- Rodent prevention services
- Visual entertainment for neighbors
- Open House value appreciation
- Sales office strong arming
- HOA rules resistance training
- Dietician consulting
- Dog ownership advice
- Old school birthday party planning

:)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 02, 2014, 08:59:58 AM
Great read and shows that it is not only the majors eyeing the doors.  These are native, long term OC based business leaving because of over-taxation, over-regulation and a generally business unfriendly environment.  It is not only frustrating but sad that this is happening.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/california-383369-tax-business.html?page=1 (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/california-383369-tax-business.html?page=1)

Should business owner stay in state, or go?

Melton International Tackle, which sells fishing gear worldwide, is marking 20 years in business in Anaheim during 2013. It may be the last.
 
Owner Tracy Melton is consulting with his financial experts and exploring other locations for his 30-employee company. He says recent state tax hikes may be the last straw that drives him out of what he considers to be a state unfriendly to businesses.
 
"I am not rich by any means," Melton said. "I work hard, keep 30 people off unemployment, and my reward is that the state and feds want to take more than half of any profit I make."
 
Melton has not made a decision on whether he should stay – or go – but his complaints are a familiar refrain among local small business owners who struggled through the recession and express concerns about any new taxes and regulations.

No definitive data about departing companies is available, but Irvine business consultant Joe Vranich has compiled hundreds of examples of companies moving some or all of their operations and jobs out of California. The list included 254 such companies in 2011 alone. He said he has been too busy to update the list for 2012.
 
One Vranich client, who owns a growing company, said he is postponing a major equipment purchase until after moving out of California because the quarter-cent sales tax increase would increase the machinery's cost by thousands of dollars. Another client, which does wood finishing, is moving out of state because of Air Quality Management District prohibitions. A third client said he will move his business to North Carolina, Florida or Texas because his net worth hasn't grown in 20 years, despite building a company that employs 20 people.

"In the seven days following the election, I got five serious inquiries about moving companies out of California," Vranich said. "That's unheard of. (In the past) if I had five clients relocate in a year, that was good. ... I'm so busy, I have expanded."

Numerous studies report on California's business taxes and policies. The most recent comes from the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council, which ranks California 50th in business friendliness in its 2013 study. California has the highest personal income tax rate, capital gains tax rate, dividend and interest tax rate, the highest diesel fuel tax, second-highest gasoline tax and third-worst highways, the study says.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 02, 2014, 09:43:16 AM
Hmm... according to LA Times and Toyota, it wasn't Cali's fault for the relo, it was geography and consolidation:

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-toyota-economy-20140502,0,1647755.story#axzz30Zp9LvM8

Quote
The trouble is that taxes, regulations and business climate appear to have had nothing to do with Toyota's move. It came down to a simple matter of geography and a plan for corporate consolidation, Toyota's North American chief told The Times. And in the big picture, California's and Texas' economies are growing at a similar pace, with corporate relocations — in either direction — representing only a tiny slice of job growth in both states.

"It may seem like a juicy story to have this confrontation between California and Texas, but that was not the case," said Jim Lentz, Toyota's North American chief executive.

Toyota left California to move its company's brainpower, now divided among offices in three states, into one headquarters close to the company's manufacturing base, primarily in the South.

"It doesn't make sense to have oversight of manufacturing 2,000 miles away from where the cars were made," Lentz said. "Geography is the reason not to have our headquarters in California."

Additionally, historical evidence shows that company migration isn't really the main drive for job creation:

Quote
"It's a prime example of the state's unfriendly tax code and business regulations that drive businesses out of the state," said Allan Mansoor, the top Republican on the state Assembly's economic development committee. "The whole thing could have been prevented."

Economic data paint a different picture, according to experts who study job migration and creation. For one thing, poaching of jobs does little to grow the economy of any state.

The Public Policy Institute of California studied this phenomenon over a 15-year period, from 1992 to 2006. It found that less than 2% of jobs lost in California were due to companies leaving, and only 1% of jobs created were due to companies moving in.

More recent figures were not available, but experts say it's unlikely that dynamic has changed, particularly given that the number of major corporate relocations and expansions nationwide has fallen sharply in recent years. According to Conway Data, which tracks site-selection activity, the number of big corporate moves last year was half what it was at its peak in the late 1990s.

"Governors should tune out the war between the states. That's not where job creation happens," said Greg LeRoy, executive director at Good Jobs First, a think tank that tracks corporate subsidies. "Job creation happens at home."

As I said, don't worry, be happy.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 02, 2014, 11:22:16 AM
Then is seems our fate is solely to incubate then out-migrate those businesses to other states that treat mature companies better.  All these examples we have gone through are up and running business that look to leave.  I would love to see an LA Times article trumpeting a major business moving here and hiring all those high paying jobs for whatever reason, be it geography, strategic planning or lower operating costs.  In the end incubation is a thin nail to hang your hat on for the future.  Our economy takes on all the risk and reaps little of the long term rewards.  
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on May 02, 2014, 12:59:20 PM
Then is seems our fate is solely to incubate then out-migrate those businesses to other states that treat mature companies better.  All these examples we have gone through are up and running business that look to leave.  I would love to see an LA Times article trumpeting a major business moving here and hiring all those high paying jobs for whatever reason, be it geography, strategic planning or lower operating costs.  In the end incubation is a thin nail to hang your hat on for the future.  Our economy takes on all the risk and reaps little of the long term rewards.

Here you go mister I like to post in really big fonts because my browser zoom button went missing:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/boeing-609340-jobs-engineering.html
Boeing poised to bring 1,000 skilled jobs to region
The new positions will be part of the 1,800-employee Southern California Engineering Design Center.
Published: April 10, 2014 Updated: April 11, 2014 9:29 a.m.

California’s gain is Washington’s loss, as the positions being added here are being dropped from Boeing’s manufacturing home state. Those Seattle area-based workers will get a chance to re-apply for their jobs here. Boeing expects to fill the positions with a combination of Seattle transplants, Southern California talent and former workers from the C-17 plant.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: The California Court Company on May 02, 2014, 01:04:40 PM
"great looking, excellent personality" and the 3rd leg
Top Gigolo can make shit load of money anywhere in the world


i wouldnt move to texas, but i make a shitload of money and am extremely smart, great looking, excellent personality, etc, so ill always make a shitload of money in CA  ;D
And so diverse too:

- Rodent prevention services
- Visual entertainment for neighbors
- Open House value appreciation
- Sales office strong arming
- HOA rules resistance training
- Dietician consulting
- Dog ownership advice
- Old school birthday party planning

:)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvine Dream on May 02, 2014, 01:36:26 PM
Let's calm down and enjoy this thread for all it have to offer, information and facts sometimes and witty humor and not engage in attacks.

On another note Qwerty what kind of job you do (I am sure it is not what California Court implies)?  It must be nice to be able to afford Irvine on one person's salary and still have a life
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 02, 2014, 02:11:40 PM
Let's calm down and enjoy this thread for all it have to offer, information and facts sometimes and witty humor and not engage in attacks.

On another note Qwerty what kind of job you do (I am sure it is not what California Court implies)?  It must be nice to be able to afford Irvine on one person's salary and still have a life

im a CPA. #2 in the finance/accounting organization at a public company.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: The California Court Company on May 02, 2014, 02:29:35 PM
geography and consolidation: the next big job creator in California will be the cannabis industry once we legalize it. who wouldn't want to smoke a joint in a blue day
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on May 03, 2014, 06:25:12 AM
Ive dealt with enough exes at enough publically traded firms to know most of these decisions are done for personal reasons and then justified and rationalized.

Sometimes that issue is the execs like getting deals.  States and cities are lining up like mad to cut deals and give stuff away to people moving jobs there.  Not creating jobs, moving jobs.  Lets build stadium! We need a team!  never mind most are shown to actually cost more money then they bring in over the long run.

There's a lot wrong with the California business climate, from having an 88 page guide book on paying taxes and wages for a nanny to needing to put the water in the sewer cleaner than it comes out of the tap if you work with certain chemicals.  Overall, IMHO, California government and many Californians that power play with Government are basically hostile to companies an their owners.

That's how Toyota is rationalizing the decision to move, not why they are moving.

BTW, Toyota's plants are there in Texas, why'd Texas need to pay Toyota to move?  You're moving 4000 jobs and an entire headquarters for the next decade or two.  Is $40 million anything more than a palm grease?


Even the bureaucrats blame the bureaucracy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101625195 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101625195)


Torrance Mayor Frank Scotto blames the state of California for Toyota Motor's decision to relocate its North American headquarters from the city to Plano, Texas.

"The state of California lost Toyota," Scotto said on "Power Lunch" Tuesday.

He pointed to a number of issues in the Golden State that negatively affect companies' bottom line: tax structure, workers' compensation and liability insurance.

"There are so many other levels of problems that we face in California that make it very difficult for any business to be in the state of California," he added.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 05, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
Can't catch a break,  Bad to work here AND now bad to retire here.  Will I be only one left here soon?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/05/retirement/retirement-states/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/05/retirement/retirement-states/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)

The best states to retire in are a little surprising

Forget sunny Florida or California, retirees are better off heading to colder climates, according to Bankrate's latest ranking of best states to retire.

South Dakota topped Bankrate's list. Its low taxes, lack of crime and easy access to quality healthcare make it the country's best state for retirees, according to Bankrate's rankings, which equally weighted weather, cost of living, crime, quality of health care, state and local taxes and general well-being.

All of these states tend to have excellent healthcare and some of the lowest state and local tax rates in the country, which can make a big difference for retirees living on fixed incomes, said Chris Kahn, research and statistics editor at Bankrate.

"Yes you are still going to need a snow shovel... but you're getting a lot in return for that cold weather," Kahn said.

And while sunny Florida is popular among many retirees, it ranked near the bottom of the list -- in 39th place -- in part because of higher crime and living costs and lower quality healthcare. Meanwhile, California ranked 28th, weighed down by high state taxes and living costs.
 ::)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 05, 2014, 12:17:16 PM
Not sure how they are considering weather if you still have to shovel snow (not something the elderly likes to do).

Middle of the pack for Cali is good enough, you don't have to shovel snow and people will actually visit you because it's so nice here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on May 05, 2014, 01:56:28 PM
Can't catch a break,  Bad to work here AND now bad to retire here.  Will I be only one left here soon?

If you hate California so much, please move.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 05, 2014, 02:37:11 PM
Can't catch a break,  Bad to work here AND now bad to retire here.  Will I be only one left here soon?

If you hate California so much, please move.

Thank you.

Actually, just the opposite it true.  Unless we recognize the flaws and discuss ways to fix them without denying their existence we will someday ALL wake up in a place we "hate".  As a native I would rather fix it than run away  or deny it.  As I said, I have substantial skin in this game.  I own real estate and investments here, I was born raised and educated here, I make a good living here, my family is here, my children go to school here and I don't plan on going anywhere, anytime soon.  The place we live is privileged, but not perfect and without room for improvement.  
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 15, 2014, 07:16:46 AM
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-15/toyota-texas-move-could-generate-7-2-billion-analysis-finds.html

Toyota move to Texas may bring $7.2 billion in economic activity over 10 years.

According to the article the average salary is $104,000. Sorry admin support, AP clerk, technicians, etc. don't make that much. It's upper management, management, district sales managers, etc. that make the mega bucks and make the average salary high. (I don't know the exact structure, but most companies are like this) So if an average person reads the article, it is misleading in a way.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 15, 2014, 07:32:30 AM
The company that makes Sriracha is being courted by Texas.

Oh noooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on May 15, 2014, 08:00:50 AM
The company that makes Sriracha is being courted by Texas.

Oh noooooooooooooo!

I can tell you from a personal relationship.. that they will not be moving.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Homer_Simpson on May 15, 2014, 08:13:13 AM
The company that makes Sriracha is being courted by Texas.

Oh noooooooooooooo!

I can tell you from a personal relationship.. that they will not be moving.

I can also confirm!!  ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 15, 2014, 09:36:20 AM
So do you two get free cases of Sriracha? :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Homer_Simpson on May 15, 2014, 09:55:39 AM
So do you two get free cases of Sriracha? :)

Yep! Also Kikkoman and LKK stuff.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 16, 2014, 12:14:11 PM
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/business-614262-california-states.html (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/business-614262-california-states.html)

Editorial: California bad for business

Some of the CEOs’ comments about California’s business climate were quite telling – and sobering:
 
• “California goes out of its way to be anti-business, and particularly where one might put manufacturing and/or distribution operations.”
 
• “We relocated our corporate office from Los Angeles to Atlanta in 2006 largely because of the regulatory and unfriendly tax environment in the state of California. . . . Would make the same decision if I had to do it all over again.”
 
• “California could hardly do more to discourage business if that was the goal. The regulatory, tax and political environment are crushing.”
 
Chief Executive magazine Editor-in-Chief J.P. Donlon illustrated how California’s tangle of red tape has led to its shameful performance in the survey. “The Economist reports that it takes two years to open a new restaurant in the Golden State compared to six to eight weeks in Texas,” he wrote. “The task of unraveling the byzantine layers of regulations seems insurmountable. The jungle is too thick to be pruned. That’s why Carpenteria California CKE Restaurants (owner of Carl’s Jr.) is committed to opening 300 restaurants in Texas, but has no plans for new restaurants in California.”
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 16, 2014, 12:21:36 PM
How many employees work at an Amazon Fulfillment Center? Amazon has built 2 in Cali right?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 16, 2014, 12:22:46 PM
:P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 16, 2014, 12:50:46 PM
Not my opinion...your own LA times articles'.

Texas was the only state that added more jobs, growing by 348,000 over the same period

..and Tesla will probably employ even more people in Texas soon...

According to a filing with the SEC, Tesla will build the “Gigafactory” battery plant in Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico or Texas. The 10 million-square-foot facility is slated to open in 2017. It will employ 6,500 people once it’s fully operational in 2020.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 16, 2014, 01:45:10 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 16, 2014, 01:51:19 PM
The picture isn't as grim in California as you make it out to be.

MoreKaos has said this before, but part of his point is that if you have these big name employers here, why not try to keep them here. you mention Tesla surpassed toyota, and just wait, give it time and tesla will follow toyota out the door.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 16, 2014, 03:29:22 PM
 8)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 16, 2014, 03:37:40 PM
The picture isn't as grim in California as you make it out to be.

MoreKaos has said this before, but part of his point is that if you have these big name employers here, why not try to keep them here. you mention Tesla surpassed toyota, and just wait, give it time and tesla will follow toyota out the door.

Companies move to lower their cost basis. Generally speaking, salaries are the first area of opportunity when considering an out-of-state relo, then commercial rent. Regulatory issues are a PITA, but not enough to warrant a significant relo.

So even if we put our regulatory environment at parity with Texas, Toyota would still have moved. Hell, they're moving out of KENTUCKY as part of this consolidation.

So I'm not sure what the argument is. Lowering the cost basis for housing would help, which means more mass transit to inland areas. But projects like mass transit are DOA with the right.

I think one big factor that you didn't address is CA corporate income tax. Texas doesn't have it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 16, 2014, 05:19:37 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 16, 2014, 07:32:12 PM
What companies would have expanded here or not moved out had we repealed corporate income tax?

Remember corporations benefit from Prop 13, which keeps property taxes lower than Texas on a relative basis.



you assume that a corporation owns their land, a lot of companies lease because it is too expensive to buy land and build your own facility.  so if both companies lease property taxes arent even an issue, besides, higher property taxes in texas are offset by the lower land cost in texas.

to answer your question, we dont even need to provide examples of actual companies. just do the math. from a corporate income tax perspective, if you had a company based in each state (lets assume all their sales occured in their respective states for simplicity) that had revenue of $100M and op profits of $15M, in CA the tax liability at the corporate tax rate of 8.84% would be $1,326,000 vs $0 in texas. that is just the savings in taxes and im sure there are lot of savings in other places. that is a decent amount of savings for a $100M revenue company.

now for certain companies it could still make sense to stay in CA depending on their overall tax structure (income apportioned to other states other than CA) or if they invest heavily in R&D which can generate a CA tax credit that can offset a large chunk, if not all, their CA tax liability. but for a manufacturer who has no R&D and has most of their income apportioned to CA it probably makes sense to move
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 16, 2014, 09:22:12 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 16, 2014, 11:55:17 PM
Quote
but for a manufacturer who has no R&D and has most of their income apportioned to CA it probably makes sense to move

Many companies don't own the property they're in -- fair play.

You also know as well as I do that NOLs and other tools easily make many companies non-cash taxpayers. It's the salary difference between the two states that far outweighs tax savings, especially after applying the many tools that sophisticated companies use.


I don't disagree that wages are probably one of the biggest cost savings. NOLs are typically temporary, because soon enough you'll be out of business anyway if all you do is generate NOLs, although there are some exceptions.  I was just trying to illustrate that all things being equal, the tax savings alone may make it worthwhile to some companies to leave, public companies in particular who are trying to increase earnings.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 17, 2014, 06:29:54 AM
Quote
but for a manufacturer who has no R&D and has most of their income apportioned to CA it probably makes sense to move

Many companies don't own the property they're in -- fair play.

You also know as well as I do that NOLs and other tools easily make many companies non-cash taxpayers. It's the salary difference between the two states that far outweighs tax savings, especially after applying the many tools that sophisticated companies use.

Toyota is making money so they don't have NOLs. Trust me the tax savings is huge. Tax savings is huge for the comapny and it's employees.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 17, 2014, 07:16:14 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 17, 2014, 09:35:27 AM
I have several friends who are in the move dilemma with Toyota.  Perhaps the salaries of the existing employees in Plano may be lower but the package they are showing the Cali people is the same or better than what they are currently getting.  Granted, that may be a retention incentive but all things being equal, they are not saving on salaries to those they want to retain.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 17, 2014, 09:39:36 AM
 :(
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 17, 2014, 09:42:48 AM
Every one wants to be trusted on this matter :-)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 17, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
So the last three years ending in September Apple has had revenue of 170B, 156B and 108B, pretax Income of 50B, 56B and 34B and have paid taxes of  9B, 8B and 3B

So the effective tax rate is 18%, 14% and 9%. In fairness I'm calculating the %'s using cash paid / book pretax, not tax return pretax. But still excellent lower rates.

The standard corporate federal tax rate is 35% for Apple. And that is a flat rate applied to all profits not a marginal rate like for individuals.





Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: 0$ on May 17, 2014, 10:32:46 PM
 :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 17, 2014, 11:24:26 PM
Nice math. Except Apple didn't pay taxes.

well their cash flow statement in their 10K says otherwise - last line on the botton says how much they paid in income taxes. they may not have paid much of that to the US, if any, but they paid income taxes.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312513416534/d590790d10k.htm#toc590790_25
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 17, 2014, 11:31:08 PM
So the last three years ending in September Apple has had revenue of 170B, 156B and 108B, pretax Income of 50B, 56B and 34B and have paid taxes of  9B, 8B and 3B

So the effective tax rate is 18%, 14% and 9%. In fairness I'm calculating the %'s using cash paid / book pretax, not tax return pretax. But still excellent lower rates.

The standard corporate federal tax rate is 35% for Apple. And that is a flat rate applied to all profits not a marginal rate like for individuals.

Nice math. Except Apple didn't pay taxes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-22/google-joins-apple-avoiding-taxes-with-stateless-income.html


also, the article you mention talks about a unit that has made over 30B since 2009 that has not paid US taxes.  just in the three years above they have pretax income of $140B, so some other units must account for that other $110B

get your facts right.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 17, 2014, 11:53:10 PM
hey how about that, apple did pay taxes in the US

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/calculating-apples-true-u-s-tax-rate/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

"According to the Senate report, Apple paid $5.3 billion to the Treasury Department in the fiscal years 2009 to 2011. Its worldwide pretax book income over that period was about $65 billion. Thus, Apple’s “true U.S. tax rate,” according to my own calculation, was 8.2 percent."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 30, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
Texas can't always keep 'em either...

Motorola to close it's Moto X plant in Texas by end of year:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/30/motorola-texas-plant-shutdown/

Quote
Motorola became part of a growing trend when it opened a plant in Texas to build its flagship Moto X, but just a year on, its now decided to shut down its US manufacturing operations. According to The Wall Street Journal, employee numbers have plummeted from nearly 4,000 when it was in full swing to only 700, and the plan is to close the factory by the end of the year. Motorola's intention was to offset the inherently higher cost of manufacturing in the US, compared with places like China, by being able to get handsets to customers quicker, and manage the Moto Maker customization process on home turf. But, despite churning out 100,000 Moto Xs a week at one point and progressively making the handset cheaper, the 'born in the USA' vision hasn't paid dividends.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on May 30, 2014, 02:18:14 PM
Texas can't always keep 'em either...

Motorola to close it's Moto X plant in Texas by end of year:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/30/motorola-texas-plant-shutdown/


I'd think that the writing was on the wall when Google sold Motorola Mobility to a Chinese company (Lenovo).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 30, 2014, 02:26:06 PM
Texas can't always keep 'em either...

Motorola to close it's Moto X plant in Texas by end of year:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/30/motorola-texas-plant-shutdown/

Quote
Motorola became part of a growing trend when it opened a plant in Texas to build its flagship Moto X, but just a year on, its now decided to shut down its US manufacturing operations. According to The Wall Street Journal, employee numbers have plummeted from nearly 4,000 when it was in full swing to only 700, and the plan is to close the factory by the end of the year. Motorola's intention was to offset the inherently higher cost of manufacturing in the US, compared with places like China, by being able to get handsets to customers quicker, and manage the Moto Maker customization process on home turf. But, despite churning out 100,000 Moto Xs a week at one point and progressively making the handset cheaper, the 'born in the USA' vision hasn't paid dividends.

yeah not quite an apples to apples comparison.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 30, 2014, 03:00:55 PM
The point is, companies will move out of state, in to a state for a variety of reasons.

But there isn't enough movement to panic about (unless it's your own job moving).

CA loses business to TX, TX loses business to China, China buys up all the real estate in CA.

It's the circle of life.

(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140121235141/lionking/images/b/bb/Lk_screengrab_117.png)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 30, 2014, 03:24:21 PM
The point is, companies will move out of state, in to a state for a variety of reasons.

But there isn't enough movement to panic about (unless it's your own job moving).

CA loses business to TX, TX loses business to China, China buys up all the real estate in CA.

It's the circle of life.


Problem with racing to the bottom is that there is always someone or someplace more desperate.  China is losing business to India and other third world nations because labor costs are even lower there and workers in China are actually demanding decent wages and work conditions.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on May 30, 2014, 03:44:43 PM
The point is, companies will move out of state, in to a state for a variety of reasons.

But there isn't enough movement to panic about (unless it's your own job moving).

CA loses business to TX, TX loses business to China, China buys up all the real estate in CA.

It's the circle of life.

(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140121235141/lionking/images/b/bb/Lk_screengrab_117.png)

dont disagree with your statement but its not in the context of the original discussion of which of the two states has a friendlier business climate.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 30, 2014, 05:20:11 PM
But it does speak to my point that it doesn't really matter who has a friendlier business climate.

Business will open, move to, stay in California for much more than just the "business climate".

CA is the Irvine of the US. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Paris on July 27, 2014, 01:06:24 PM
But it does speak to my point that it doesn't really matter who has a friendlier business climate.

Business will open, move to, stay in California for much more than just the "business climate".

CA is the Irvine of the US. :)

For corporations it's all about the bottom line - $$$ and less corporate taxes. What I don't think our federal (and CA state) govn't doesn't understand is that as they keep increasing corporate taxes these companies will just move to more favorable tax conditions. With globalization of these large corporations they don't care where headquarters are located. They'll move from CA to TX to Europe. And with that we lose jobs and take a hit on our economy.

My husband is an exec for a major corporation. They are based in NYC but they have employees from all over the world. With technology these days everyone can easily work remotely - he works from home in CA and he has teams in India, Europe etc. and you guys are right - America in general lacks the employees with the technical skills they need so they just hire them from other parts of the world for one tenth of the cost.

Toyota moving to TX is a huge concern, a trend that I think will affect all of us economically in the long run.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 28, 2014, 07:59:42 AM
But it does speak to my point that it doesn't really matter who has a friendlier business climate.

Business will open, move to, stay in California for much more than just the "business climate".

CA is the Irvine of the US. :)

For corporations it's all about the bottom line - $$$ and less corporate taxes. What I don't think our federal (and CA state) govn't doesn't understand is that as they keep increasing corporate taxes these companies will just move to more favorable tax conditions. With globalization of these large corporations they don't care where headquarters are located. They'll move from CA to TX to Europe. And with that we lose jobs and take a hit on our economy.

My husband is an exec for a major corporation. They are based in NYC but they have employees from all over the world. With technology these days everyone can easily work remotely - he works from home in CA and he has teams in India, Europe etc. and you guys are right - America in general lacks the employees with the technical skills they need so they just hire them from other parts of the world for one tenth of the cost.

Toyota moving to TX is a huge concern, a trend that I think will affect all of us economically in the long run.

Of course that's true of any 1st world country.  Wages, environmental regulations, and labor rules are all going to be tougher and highly enforced in a first world county rather than third world countries.  The goal of a first world economy is not to race to the bottom but to maintain its technological and intellectual superiority by creating new and innovative technology.  California is the leader in computers and green technology because it had the foresight to develop and nuture those industries.   

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 28, 2014, 08:48:20 AM
Cost is a factor... but as I said, like real estate... so is location.

People like to live in California, so there will always be employers IN California.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on August 05, 2014, 06:53:40 PM
Because "California based Space Ex" could never get past all the enviro and regulatory red tape to get a facility like this up here. This isn't a poach, these are brand new jobs at a brand new facility..bye bye 300 more jobs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2716104/SpaceX-build-rocket-launch-site-South-Texas.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2716104/SpaceX-build-rocket-launch-site-South-Texas.html)


SpaceX to build world's first commercial rocket launch site in South Texas - and lift off is due in 2016


SpaceX said it plans to launch 12 rockets a year from Boca Chica Beach
Locations in Florida, Puerto Rico and Georgia had also been considered
The company also launches from Vandenberg Air Force base in California

SpaceX plans to make an $85 million investment and create 300 jobs. The company already has a rocket testing facility in McGregor that employs 250 people.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 05, 2014, 07:01:43 PM
I don't mind them not launching rockets from Cali... bad enough we have all that traffic pollution.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on August 05, 2014, 07:13:16 PM
Vandenburg is too far to smell. I'd rather have the investment and jobs.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 05, 2014, 07:29:15 PM
Don't worry, for every SpaceX launching pad not built, there will be a solar panel company or Gold4Cash store to make up for it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on August 06, 2014, 07:36:38 AM
Man, I don't want to move to Vegas...but billion$ are...

http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/17/porn-stars-leave-their-condoms-in-california-and-head-for-vegas/ (http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/17/porn-stars-leave-their-condoms-in-california-and-head-for-vegas/)

Derek Hay, the owner of adult talent agency LA Direct Models, is one of the industry leaders who has already opened up shop in Las Vegas. According to his prediction, about 20 percent of the industry will have moved to Vegas by the year’s end.

If Hay’s prognoses prove to be true, it could have a significant impact on the Golden State’s economy. One study conducted in 2006 estimated that the adult film industry in Los Angeles employs around 12,000 people and the industry as a whole generates around $10 to $12 billion in annual revenue.

Whether or not the industry completely dissolves in California depends on the future expansion of the law, says Cachapero, ”If the condom regulations were to become a statewide mandate, then producers would have no choice but to go elsewhere for production” ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on August 06, 2014, 07:47:08 AM
My wonder is if people actually want to live out there.. the producers/actresses/etc. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on August 06, 2014, 08:18:00 AM
My wonder is if people actually want to live out there.. the producers/actresses/etc.

Or film outdoors in 120 degree weather
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 03, 2014, 12:32:33 PM
The picture isn't as grim in California as you make it out to be.

MoreKaos has said this before, but part of his point is that if you have these big name employers here, why not try to keep them here. you mention Tesla surpassed toyota, and just wait, give it time and tesla will follow toyota out the door.

We never really stood a chance at this but it is not "poached" business from Tesla (a Cali company)   They chose to move this factory elsewhere.

Tesla chooses Nevada for battery factory: Sources

Tesla has finally decided that it will build its battery "gigafactory" in Nevada, sources say.


"That's a go, but they are still negotiating the specifics of the contract," a source within the Nevada's governor's office told CNBC Wednesday afternoon. The source noted that it could be a week before the deal is official.


Nevada is planning a press conference Thursday in Carson City, according to a Dow Jones report.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101937267?trknav=homestack:topnews:3 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101937267?trknav=homestack:topnews:3)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on November 17, 2014, 12:34:44 PM
Looks like Toyota is worried about Californian don't want to move to Texas.
Toyota is offering generous lump sun as an incentive to workers who agree to make the move to Texas. (http://www.autonews.com/article/20141117/OEM/311179960/tensions-at-toyota-ahead-of-big-move)

Quote
Toyota, known for a corporate culture that encourages salaried employees to consider their jobs lifelong careers, is offering what many call a generous lump sum as an incentive to workers who agree to make the move and stay in Plano, Texas, for two years.

Those who agree to stay on until their departments move "will be provided with a generous retention package that will recognize and reward the value of their much-needed talents through our years-long transition," Toyota spokesman Steven Curtis wrote in an email.

Toyota said that it has budgeted to retain 50 percent of its work force -- a rough estimate of the number needed to stanch losses in productivity during the transition -- but internally, said one person familiar with the matter, management fears that number will be closer to 30 percent]Toyota, known for a corporate culture that encourages salaried employees to consider their jobs lifelong careers, is offering what many call a generous lump sum as an incentive to workers who agree to make the move and stay in Plano, Texas, for two years.

Those who agree to stay on until their departments move "will be provided with a generous retention package that will recognize and reward the value of their much-needed talents through our years-long transition," Toyota spokesman Steven Curtis wrote in an email.

Toyota said that it has budgeted to retain 50 percent of its work force -- a rough estimate of the number needed to stanch losses in productivity during the transition -- but internally, said one person familiar with the matter, management fears that number will be closer to 30 percent
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 02, 2015, 12:37:14 PM
Or Arizona...

Apple announces $2B global command center in Arizona

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389945 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389945)

Apple will build a $2 billion global command center in Mesa, Arizona, the company announced Monday.

The new facility is expected to employ 150 full-time Apple employees and will hire 300 to 500 construction and trade jobs, according to a news release from Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey. The tech giant said it would be one of the largest investments it has ever made.

Apple has pledged to completely power the facility with renewable energy, building out solar projects in the process.

"This multibillion-dollar project is one of the largest investments we've ever made, and when completed it will add over 600 engineering and construction jobs to the more than one million jobs Apple has already created in the U.S." Apple said in a statement on the project.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2015, 06:57:46 AM
Or Arizona...

Apple announces $2B global command center in Arizona

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389945 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102389945)
Not sure what the point is here.

Apple isn't moving jobs out of Cali for this, they are creating new jobs in AZ.

And despite what the excerpts say, this facility already existed as part of GT deal, but that went sour, so instead of using it as a sapphire building factory, they are converting it to a solar-powered data center.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 03, 2015, 07:31:08 AM
The point is that this is a major Cali company with its roots right here in Cali.  Why isn't this facility opening in Apples own back yard? I understand the real estate is there from a different collapsed deal but even to Apple this is one of its biggest investments.  Why not create those facilities and jobs right here?  Answer....cheaper and more friendly elsewhere.

"This multibillion-dollar project is one of the largest investments we've ever made, and when completed it will add over 600 engineering and construction jobs to the more than one million jobs Apple has already created in the U.S." Apple said in a statement on the project."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2015, 08:46:53 AM
Doesn't seem like a very strong argument.

Like you said, they already own the real estate and it's probably less costly to build something that expansive in AZ then CA.

But that doesn't really impact CA as long as they are not moving their Cupertino headquarters there. Like I said, no one in Cali is losing their jobs (like the Toyota move) so this is not really the same type of thing.

If it were an R&D or maybe executive facility, I'm sure they would put it in CA, but a data center... it's actually safer to have it more inland in an area with lots of sun for the solar power... it's more logistics than a "not in Cali" thing you are are trying to frame it in.

As a rule, if you are doing business in Cali, you will have backup infrastructure outside of the state to better protect yourself (same with NY or FL).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 03, 2015, 09:11:22 AM
That's not how Arizona seems to see it as they spike the ball...

Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona said that Apple’s decision to create the data center in Mesa was “a huge win for Arizona and a high testament to our business-friendly climate and talented work force.”
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2015, 09:26:23 AM
Uh... that's just posturing.

If I were a consultant for Apple and they asked me where to build a data center that's going to require quite a bit of land and solar energy, I would recommend outside of CA.

Again, logistics. If it was just about cheap land, cheap labor and cheap taxes, they would have chose Texas, but they wanted it closer to Cali... where the brains are.

#muchadoaboutnothing
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 03, 2015, 09:34:01 AM
We have tons of fallow land. We could give a piece of property in Central Cali that would fit the bill nicely.  It would be worth the $2 billion dollar investment and future job growth and tax base.  If it were only about land they could easily have gotten some with very nice solar exposure.  Land costs were not the whole story.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2015, 10:07:46 AM
Land costs were not the whole story.
That's what I keep saying.

Think disaster recovery, earthquake risks, redundancy, etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 03, 2015, 10:47:18 AM
Land costs were not the whole story.
That's what I keep saying.

Think disaster recovery, earthquake risks, redundancy, etc etc etc.

The whole story is not one of the every-so-often earthquake either.  It is one more of long term strategic planning which has everything to do with taxation, regulation and overall business environment.  That negative culture needs to change here in order for us to not just start these great businesses but keep them here. Apple could have opened that facility in state, Tesla could have opened that mega factory in state.   Apple, Tesla, Intel, Amazon, Google and more all started here but expanded aggressively elsewhere.  That is not a good trend. Again, I am not pointing this out because I hate Cali.  Quite the opposite, we need to fix this in order to keep our state great.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2015, 10:59:00 AM
#CaliApocalypse

Sorry kaos... even if the taxation, regulation and business environment got worse, businesses will still come here.

It's the first 3 rules of real estate.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 14, 2015, 02:27:08 PM
..and the hits just keep on comin...

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 28, 2015, 10:49:45 AM
Now even the Chinese are leaving us for Texas!!!!

Chinese buyers feed new energy into Texas real estate

With investors nervously watching the Shanghai stock market, Chinese are the now biggest foreign buyers of American real estate, and they are setting their sights on the biggest state in the Lower 48.

Texas is seeing a huge influx of Chinese buyers, both investors and owner occupants, thanks to more affordable housing. And recent turbulence in China's stock market is likely to boost demand for U.S. property, not hurt it.


"My schedule is very full. Sometimes I cannot handle more," said Shirley Mei Qing, a real estate agent with Keller Williams in Houston, adding that she's seen a 30 percent increase in Chinese clients in the past year. "The main reason is the house market here—comparably, the price is better than the East and West Coasts."


http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/28/chinese-buyers-feed-new-energy-into-texas-real-estate.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/28/chinese-buyers-feed-new-energy-into-texas-real-estate.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 28, 2015, 11:12:15 AM
Please... take them all.

:)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Happiness on July 28, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
Please... take them all.

:)
Mainland Chinese are attracted to places with established Taiwanese/Hong Kong communities (Monterey Park, Rowland Heights, Arcadia, Irvine, etc.).  There is a large Taiwanese community in Houston so the Mainland migration there is not surprising.  There is also a large Taiwanese community in Atlanta so expect to see Mainlanders arriving in Atlanta shortly.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 28, 2015, 11:59:31 AM
That is really interesting that even the Chinese are flocking to better value in Texas in lieu of buying on the east and west coasts or Florida and California. They like new homes rather than resale and TX is twice as large as CA in total home production. They're #1 in the country. Interesting.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 28, 2015, 12:01:12 PM
There is also a large Taiwanese community in Atlanta so expect to see Mainlanders arriving in Atlanta shortly.

Paging Panda... Paging Panda. Please pick up the red courtesy phone.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on July 28, 2015, 12:05:52 PM
That is really interesting that even the Chinese are flocking to better value in Texas in lieu of buying on the east and west coasts or Florida and California. They like new homes rather than resale and TX is twice as large as CA in total home production. They're #1 in the country. Interesting.

#PostYaoMing

They can get a bigger house and land in Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on July 28, 2015, 01:11:41 PM
Need statistics on fcb's moving from Cali to Texas.
Is that why some of the newly built resale homes that's never/barely lived in on sale for > $500/sq ft these days...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 28, 2015, 05:55:46 PM
#CaliApocalypse

Sorry kaos... even if the taxation, regulation and business environment got worse, businesses will still come here.

It's the first 3 rules of real estate.

Well...here is another reason...

Average Regular Gas Price


California   3.825   -0.012
Texas        2.483   -0.012
Arizona      2.801   -0.011
 
Nothing Golden About This Hidden Gas Tax

the cap and trade "tax" on carbon emissions has the potential to increase California’s retail gasoline prices from 16 cents to 76 cents per gallon

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/09/10/california-carbon-gas-tax-could-cost-drivers-big (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/09/10/california-carbon-gas-tax-could-cost-drivers-big)

I don't think even ZeneHomes can fix this
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on July 28, 2015, 09:26:24 PM
We are seeing a lot of OEM presence here. Mercedes just moved its head quarters from NJ to Atlanta early this year http://www.ajc.com/news/business/fulton-county-authorities-meet-to-discuss-mercedes/njg7Z/

and I wouldn't be suprised if BMW's headquarter relocates here as well. Porsche's headquarter is located near the airport. A lot of corporate re location and job growth is taking place in metro Atlanta.   

http://m.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2015/jul/10/arc-atlanta-area-job-growth-rate-second-highest/?templates=mobile&news=

Job Growth is extremely important to monitor. You can see below the correlation between job growth and housing appreciation (MSA). Not too sure about the taiwanese community, but the Korean, Chinese, and Indian community is growing very fast in Metro Atlanta.

(http://www.housingviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Shiller2.jpg)

From the chart below you can see that Cleveland, OH has very low home appreciation and very low job growth. If you see Dallas and San Franciso, both cities have very large job growth thus high appreciation in the last 12 months.





 

There is also a large Taiwanese community in Atlanta so expect to see Mainlanders arriving in Atlanta shortly.

Paging Panda... Paging Panda. Please pick up the red courtesy phone.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 28, 2015, 09:43:35 PM
Pandaaaaaaa!!!! Good to see you. I hope everything is going well over there! I hope your family is also well. It looks like your predictions years ago were right on the money and you made a wise decision making the big leap. I bet you are pretty happy right now!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on July 29, 2015, 04:40:37 AM
Hi Socal, Hope all is well with you too. I can't believe 10 years later we are still posting here. IHB was my first exposure to social media even before Facebook.

I probably need to give my gratitude and thanks to Irvine Housing Blog and BKshopr aka (Irvine Home Shopper) who gave me the foundation of how to analyze real estate data and understanding demographics by studying the history of Irvine's housing market. I believe that faster than normal appreciation can be predicted by thorough study and research of demographic trends. This information has helped me make a lot of money as a buy and holder investor in the northern Atlanta market.

Responding to this post on Toyota moving its headquarters to Texas, I am sure zero state income tax had a major role in the move.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/9sdmah.jpg) 

Pandaaaaaaa!!!! Good to see you. I hope everything is going well over there! I hope your family is also well. It looks like your predictions years ago were right on the money and you made a wise decision making the big leap. I bet you are pretty happy right now!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 29, 2015, 07:07:10 AM
Still too hot in ATL.

And last season the Hawks were a fluke.

#hatersgottahate
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 29, 2015, 11:05:30 AM
Our weather here has been pretty insufferable itself. Has anyone gone outside this summer? Yikes. Or last? Or all through fall? We are having those hot, muggy summers you find on the east coast. This article about El Nino shows that the pressure is creating a weather phenomenon where the northern region of the country, which is normally cooler, becomes warmer on average while the southern region, which is normally warmer, is cooling down. The jet stream is flip-flopping the weather. Meanwhile, the middle region across the country, which we here in California are in line with, is more stagnate due to higher pressure. Panda may be better off in Atlanta.

Watch the video: "Understanding El Nino: The Bizarre Weather Phenomenon"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3176632/A-massive-El-Nino-growing-Ten-year-high-cause-prices-chocolate-coffee-rocket-WON-T-bring-relief-California-forecasters-say.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 29, 2015, 12:36:35 PM
Panda may be better off in Atlanta.
Uh... Johns Creek has been in the 90s most of the month of July whereas Irvine has only gone over 90 once.

Maybe it's hotter in Lake Forest but I'll take SoCal weather over ATL weather any and every day of the week, month or year.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 29, 2015, 01:37:36 PM
Yah but....

Georgia   $2.532/ per gallon
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 29, 2015, 01:42:42 PM
Gas could be $0.25 in ATL and I still won't move there.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 29, 2015, 01:50:10 PM
Hi Socal, Hope all is well with you too. I can't believe 10 years later we are still posting here. IHB was my first exposure to social media even before Facebook.

I probably need to give my gratitude and thanks to Irvine Housing Blog and BKshopr aka (Irvine Home Shopper) who gave me the foundation of how to analyze real estate data and understanding demographics by studying the history of Irvine's housing market. I believe that faster than normal appreciation can be predicted by thorough study and research of demographic trends. This information has helped me make a lot of money as a buy and holder investor in the northern Atlanta market.

Responding to this post on Toyota moving its headquarters to Texas, I am sure zero state income tax had a major role in the move.

Congratulations on your financial success, Panda. You did a fantastic job gleaning what basics were provided online and adding to that countless hours of your own research coupled with the wisdom & discernment that few have. Not to mention guts. You hit all the right marks -- Triple Double Wild Cherries -- and it is paying off in spades. I couldn't be happier for you. It has been really fun for me personally, and I'm sure for others, to follow your journey over the years and see where it has taken you. From this point forward, do you see yourself sticking primarily with the northern Atlanta market or would you ever consider also dipping your toes in the waters of Texas's real estate market, for example? I remember you are a fan of the idea of "investing in your own backyard" so I would guess Atlanta will be your focus. While you're at it, how about an update on the twins -- are they driving yet?  ;)

 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on July 30, 2015, 07:07:32 AM
Thanks for the kind words SoCal. Looking back, I see that the Lord brought me down to Atlanta and has taken great care of me and my family. I see myself concentrating my investments in the north Atlanta market since I now know this market extremely well. I see Texas and Georgia more like complementary investment markets more than substitutes.  If you look the census data 2010 - 2014, the largest population growth took place in the South. If I forecast the next 15 years, the south will do very well in terms of buy and hold investments in desirable neighborhoods. (Texas, Georgia, Carolinas, and Florida). I also believe that Texas will be the new economic powerhouse state in the future. The only negative with Texas is that the property taxes (3%) and insurance is high, where it makes it challenging to cash flow in the "A Class" neighborhoods with 10 rated schools. California's population is 4x that of Georgia and Texas is 3x Georgia. I see North Carolina, Georgia, and Texas as similar states to invest so i think it will be better to continue to concentrate my investments in my own backyard. 

I went to the Johns Creek Elementary orientation for kindergarderners yesterday. Boy, does time fly. SoCal, I am sure your 2 boys are already taller than you are.   

Hi Socal, Hope all is well with you too. I can't believe 10 years later we are still posting here. IHB was my first exposure to social media even before Facebook.

I probably need to give my gratitude and thanks to Irvine Housing Blog and BKshopr aka (Irvine Home Shopper) who gave me the foundation of how to analyze real estate data and understanding demographics by studying the history of Irvine's housing market. I believe that faster than normal appreciation can be predicted by thorough study and research of demographic trends. This information has helped me make a lot of money as a buy and holder investor in the northern Atlanta market.

Responding to this post on Toyota moving its headquarters to Texas, I am sure zero state income tax had a major role in the move.

Congratulations on your financial success, Panda. You did a fantastic job gleaning what basics were provided online and adding to that countless hours of your own research coupled with the wisdom & discernment that few have. Not to mention guts. You hit all the right marks -- Triple Double Wild Cherries -- and it is paying off in spades. I couldn't be happier for you. It has been really fun for me personally, and I'm sure for others, to follow your journey over the years and see where it has taken you. From this point forward, do you see yourself sticking primarily with the northern Atlanta market or would you ever consider also dipping your toes in the waters of Texas's real estate market, for example? I remember you are a fan of the idea of "investing in your own backyard" so I would guess Atlanta will be your focus. While you're at it, how about an update on the twins -- are they driving yet?  ;)

 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 30, 2015, 10:03:27 AM
I went to the Johns Creek Elementary orientation for kindergarderners yesterday. Boy, does time fly. SoCal, I am sure your 2 boys are already taller than you are.

Kindergarten? Oh, my gosh. Where has the time gone. I wonder if they will be in the same class.

Mine are growing so much & so fast. Not quite as tall as me yet but the oldest one is now only an inch shorter than me. He hit his growth spurt early and is off the charts for his age group. When I took him to the doctor for a check-up recently (i.e. the controversial "heroin problem" visit which you've probably read about by now), the doctor said she guarantees he'll be taller than both of his parents and then some. If we go by his growth trajectory, it would put him around 6'3". We'll see. I think that's going to be a weird day soon when I look up to my own kid. I feel like -- how can something that came out of me be bigger than me??  :o lol.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on July 30, 2015, 10:08:35 AM
That's probably what Yao Mings mom said, haha
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on July 30, 2015, 10:09:28 AM
The only negative with Texas is that the property taxes (3%) and insurance is high, where it makes it challenging to cash flow in the "A Class" neighborhoods with 10 rated schools.

I don't know if it's true but I have heard before that states with no income tax have higher property taxes.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on July 30, 2015, 11:22:36 AM
(http://i60.tinypic.com/9sdmah.jpg) 

(http://i61.tinypic.com/2v9dxtt.jpg)

Generally it is true, I know that both Florida and Texas have higher property tax and insurance costs, but no state income tax. You have look at it from a holistic view. Millionaires are generally more mobile and will live where the lifestyle is good. Therefore if you are taking into the account the holistic picture of low state taxes and a good lifestyle, Florida seems to be a very attractive state for retirement. You will get taxed at the highest rate for your social security, pension, passive income in California, whereas in Florida, your retirement passive income will not be taxed at the state level.

(http://i58.tinypic.com/14311ec.jpg)


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on July 30, 2015, 11:43:11 AM
Interesting. 
So I need to "live" in Nevada while "renting" in Irvine even if I own both properties. 

How to tell payroll to send w2 to Nevada...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 30, 2015, 11:44:59 AM
Interesting. 
So I need to "live" in Nevada while "renting" in Irvine even if I own both properties. 

How to tell payroll to send w2 to Nevada...
I know several people who do that (not "rent" in Irvine specifically but in SoCal).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 31, 2015, 06:21:51 AM
Interesting. 
So I need to "live" in Nevada while "renting" in Irvine even if I own both properties. 

How to tell payroll to send w2 to Nevada...
I know several people who do that (not "rent" in Irvine specifically but in SoCal).

Technically that shouldn't matter...it's where the work is done...not where the W2 is sent to.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 04, 2015, 08:02:22 AM
More empirical evidence, its not just companies...its people...

Taxpayers Fleeing Democrat-Run States for Republican Ones

Top 5 loser states for Democrat governors in 2013:

·      New York (114,929 people with $5.7 billion in AGI)

·      Illinois (68,943 people with $3.8 billion in AGI)

·      California (47,458 people with 3.8 billion in AGI)

·      Connecticut (14,453 people with $1.8 billion in AGI)

·      Massachusetts (11,915 people with $1 billion in AGI)

Top 5 winner states for Republican governors in 2013:

·      Texas (152,912 people with $6 billion in AGI)

·      Florida (74,094 people with 8.3 billion in AGI)

·      South Carolina (29,176 people with 1.6 billion in AGI)

·      North Carolina (26,207 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)

·      Arizona (16,549 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)

The single largest net migration from one state to another took place between New York and Florida (17,355 people).

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones (https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 04, 2015, 09:02:14 AM
More empirical evidence, its not just companies...its people...

Taxpayers Fleeing Democrat-Run States for Republican Ones

Top 5 loser states for Democrat governors in 2013:

·      New York (114,929 people with $5.7 billion in AGI)

·      Illinois (68,943 people with $3.8 billion in AGI)

·      California (47,458 people with 3.8 billion in AGI)

·      Connecticut (14,453 people with $1.8 billion in AGI)

·      Massachusetts (11,915 people with $1 billion in AGI)

Top 5 winner states for Republican governors in 2013:

·      Texas (152,912 people with $6 billion in AGI)

·      Florida (74,094 people with 8.3 billion in AGI)

·      South Carolina (29,176 people with 1.6 billion in AGI)

·      North Carolina (26,207 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)

·      Arizona (16,549 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)

The single largest net migration from one state to another took place between New York and Florida (17,355 people).

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones (https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones)

Wait...New Yorkers leaving New York to go to Florida?  I have never heard of that before!

I will wait to see the age breakdown of those leaving.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 04, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
It's not the age as much as its the income and the tax base.  These people are fleeing high tax and spend states for states that provide some relief.  The same reasons companies do.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Migration-Data-2012-2013 (http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Migration-Data-2012-2013)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: The California Court Company on September 04, 2015, 10:49:20 AM
really? a company moves its HQ to California?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/applebees-moving-kansas-city-california-33541593
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 04, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
IHOP acquired them and has always been based in Glendale
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 04, 2015, 11:29:02 AM
Fleeing California

A hostile business climate sends more companies to friendlier states

More than a century ago, Roy Farmer, 20, went door-to-door in Los Angeles with his bags of home-roasted coffee beans. By the 1930s, Farmer Brothers was selling coffee to restaurants throughout the nation. Today the company employs 1,200 men and women and generates $200 million in annual sales to restaurants, convenience stores, hospitals, hotels and universities.

But after surviving depressions, recessions, earthquakes and wars, Farmer Brothers is leaving California, finally driven out by high taxes and oppressive regulations.

The company says it’s fleeing in search of a place where business is appreciated. Relocating its corporate headquarters and distribution facilities from to a friendlier location, Farmer Brothers expects to save $15 million a year. Company executives are looking at Dallas and Oklahoma City. The relocation will bear real consequences for California. Nearly 350 workers will lose their well-paying jobs in Los Angeles alone.

Gov. Jerry Brown pleads with companies to stay in California, and scolds those that are leaving. He, too, recognizes the storm clouds over his state’s business climate. “We’ve got a few problems,” he conceded to an interviewer not long ago. “We have lots of little burdens and regulations and taxes.” But neither he nor the state legislature have plans to do anything about it. Until they do, only the brave, if not foolish, set up a business in California.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/editorial-businesses-flee-californias-high-taxes-a/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/editorial-businesses-flee-californias-high-taxes-a/)

It makes me very sad :'(
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on September 04, 2015, 12:33:44 PM
Man, you are right. CA is horrible for businesses ... well, only if you decide to believe a propagandist rag with a strong conservative bent whose survival is subsidized by the Unification Church.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-12/best-state-for-business-yes-california (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-12/best-state-for-business-yes-california)

Fleeing California

A hostile business climate sends more companies to friendlier states

More than a century ago, Roy Farmer, 20, went door-to-door in Los Angeles with his bags of home-roasted coffee beans. By the 1930s, Farmer Brothers was selling coffee to restaurants throughout the nation. Today the company employs 1,200 men and women and generates $200 million in annual sales to restaurants, convenience stores, hospitals, hotels and universities.

But after surviving depressions, recessions, earthquakes and wars, Farmer Brothers is leaving California, finally driven out by high taxes and oppressive regulations.

The company says it’s fleeing in search of a place where business is appreciated. Relocating its corporate headquarters and distribution facilities from to a friendlier location, Farmer Brothers expects to save $15 million a year. Company executives are looking at Dallas and Oklahoma City. The relocation will bear real consequences for California. Nearly 350 workers will lose their well-paying jobs in Los Angeles alone.

Gov. Jerry Brown pleads with companies to stay in California, and scolds those that are leaving. He, too, recognizes the storm clouds over his state’s business climate. “We’ve got a few problems,” he conceded to an interviewer not long ago. “We have lots of little burdens and regulations and taxes.” But neither he nor the state legislature have plans to do anything about it. Until they do, only the brave, if not foolish, set up a business in California.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/editorial-businesses-flee-californias-high-taxes-a/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/17/editorial-businesses-flee-californias-high-taxes-a/)

It makes me very sad :'(
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 09, 2015, 11:55:58 AM
It's not the age as much as its the income and the tax base.  These people are fleeing high tax and spend states for states that provide some relief.  The same reasons companies do.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Migration-Data-2012-2013 (http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Migration-Data-2012-2013)

Higher taxes affect retirees the most as their incomes are steady/fixed.  Younger people who are still working will stay in California because the wages are significantly higher than elsewhere.  Higher wages and better standard of living mean that workers rather stay in California...companies want to move away because of higher taxes and wages.   
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on September 11, 2015, 12:55:46 PM
Man, you are right. CA is horrible for businesses ... well, only if you decide to believe a propagandist rag with a strong conservative bent whose survival is subsidized by the Unification Church.

Unification Church is a marriage agency.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on January 15, 2016, 10:36:09 PM
GE is moving it's headquarters from Fairfield to Boston. I'm surprised GE didn't move to Texas. A possible reason why is because GE received an incentive package by the state of Massachusetts and city of Boston for around $145 million.

"Taxes chased GE out of Connecticut

Democratic Governor Dannel Malloy accelerated the state's economic freefall with another huge tax hike passed last summer. Despite his 2014 re-election promise of no new taxes, Malloy signed a $2 billion tax hike that falls heavily on businesses and individuals. This came only a few years after his near $1.5 billion tax hike. "

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/15/taxes-chased-ge-out-of-connecticut-commentary.html


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: zubs on February 22, 2016, 10:54:22 AM
So is this a buy for TM?
sounds like it

Today: 04.28.2014
TM: $107.07

Will check back in 2015

I forgot to check the price of TM in 2015.  So how is TM doing now?  Looking at the graph it went all the way up to $143, and then crashed back down to around $106 today......Looks like the move to TX was a good decision so far...will update in a few years again.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on February 25, 2016, 04:55:02 PM
So is this a buy for TM?
sounds like it

Today: 04.28.2014
TM: $107.07

Will check back in 2015

I forgot to check the price of TM in 2015.  So how is TM doing now?  Looking at the graph it went all the way up to $143, and then crashed back down to around $106 today......Looks like the move to TX was a good decision so far...will update in a few years again.

It's a no brainier for Toyota moving to Texas.
Also, it was a no brainier for Nissan to move to Tennesee.

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/635167087/Tennessee-offered-Nissan-big-tax-lures.html

The state of California just doesn't get it.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on March 08, 2016, 02:37:05 PM
Buh-bye Carl's, Jr. The parent company is moving the headquarters from CA to Nashville. Carl's was founded in Anaheim 60 years ago.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 07:41:42 AM
Not gonna get any better...

http://www.expertclick.com/NRWire/Releasedetails.aspx?id=76453 (http://www.expertclick.com/NRWire/Releasedetails.aspx?id=76453)


New Study Forecast: More Companies Will Leave California
 
Irvine , CA
Thursday, January 07, 2016
 

According to a new study of companies leaving California during the last eight years, the state's business climate will worsen because of a multitude of proposed tax hikes and new regulations – measures sufficient to motivate more company departures.

The study by Spectrum Location Solutions is critical of extending the "temporary" taxes in Proposition 30, escalating fuel and motor vehicle taxes, imposing a service tax on routine transactions, raising carbon-related cap-and-trade fees, and threatening to weaken Proposition 13's protections for business property owners.

"California's public officials come across as being uncaring about the damage they inflict on businesses, investors, employees and their families, and to the towns that lose jobs," said Joseph Vranich, the study's author. "With a growing number of California activists demanding higher taxes and more regulations, look for an increase in the number of companies seeking to leave the state."

The conclusions are contained in a report that shows Fortune 500 companies down to small family-owned companies relocating and expanding in out-of-California locations that offer more satisfying business and lifestyle outcomes....

The report ranks the Top 15 California Counties in the order starting with the worst losses, which are: (1) Los Angeles, (2) Orange, (3) Santa Clara, (4) San Francisco, (5) San Diego, (6) Alameda, (7) San Mateo, (8) Ventura, (9) Sacramento tied with San Bernardino, (10) Riverside, (11) Contra Costa tied with Santa Barbara, (12) San Joaquin, (13) Stanislaus, (14) Sonoma and (15) Santa Cruz.

The Top 10 States in the order starting with those that gained the most are: (1) Texas, (2) Nevada, (3) Arizona, (4) Colorado, (5) Washington, (6) Oregon, (7) North Carolina, (8) Georgia, (9) Florida and (10) Utah tied with Virginia. Texas was the top destination each year during the eight-year study period

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 09, 2016, 08:25:24 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 09:00:04 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 09:09:10 AM
It makes sense that Texas is the #1 destination for California corporations due to 0% state income tax%. If you look at the list below there is definitely a correlation between being a business friendly state vs real estate appreciation in the state. The strongest real estate appreciation over the past 12 months took place in Colorado and Texas where property values are up 10% above the last 2006 real estate peak. You can also see that Texas, Neveda, Washington, and Florida are all 0 state income tax states. Just to have a LLC in California the franchise tax is $875/year. Here in Georgia, the costs are minimal at $50/year. 

The Top 10 States in the order starting with those that gained the most are: (1) Texas, (2) Nevada, (3) Arizona, (4) Colorado, (5) Washington, (6) Oregon, (7) North Carolina, (8) Georgia, (9) Florida and (10) Utah tied with Virginia. Texas was the top destination each year during the eight-year study period

Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 09, 2016, 09:15:06 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
So it's all jobless FCBs?

Why is Irvine building those towers? There has to be some article about how many businesses are moving to Irvine and surrounding areas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 09:28:03 AM
Panda the savings in $875 and is $50 is small.
The cost of living in Georgia is less than California.

It makes sense that Texas is the #1 destination for California corporations due to 0% state income tax%. If you look at the list below there is definitely a correlation between being a business friendly state vs real estate appreciation in the state. The strongest real estate appreciation over the past 12 months took place in Colorado and Texas where property values are up 10% above the last 2006 real estate peak. You can also see that Texas, Neveda, Washington, and Florida are all 0 state income tax states. Just to have a LLC in California the franchise tax is $875/year. Here in Georgia, the costs are minimal at $50/year. 

The Top 10 States in the order starting with those that gained the most are: (1) Texas, (2) Nevada, (3) Arizona, (4) Colorado, (5) Washington, (6) Oregon, (7) North Carolina, (8) Georgia, (9) Florida and (10) Utah tied with Virginia. Texas was the top destination each year during the eight-year study period

Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 09:46:35 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
So it's all jobless FCBs?

Why is Irvine building those towers? There has to be some article about how many businesses are moving to Irvine and surrounding areas.

Sometimes massive office expansion is not a good thing...

https://www.questia.com/magazine/1G1-218191650/hard-times-in-the-o-c-once-home-to-many-major-subprime (https://www.questia.com/magazine/1G1-218191650/hard-times-in-the-o-c-once-home-to-many-major-subprime)

Hard Times in the O.C.: Once Home to Many Major Subprime Lenders, Orange County Was the Epicenter of the Mortgage Market Meltdown. Now It Has Tons of Empty Office Space
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 09:49:43 AM
The main difference is in corporate taxes and not being a business friendly state. Can you imagine trying to execute a series LLC strategy in California or putting each one of your 15-20 rental properties in a seperate LLC? It is not going to be cheap.

Yes you are correct. The cost of living is super cheap in Georgia vs living in California.

Panda the savings in $875 and is $50 is small.
The cost of living in Georgia is less than California.

It makes sense that Texas is the #1 destination for California corporations due to 0% state income tax%. If you look at the list below there is definitely a correlation between being a business friendly state vs real estate appreciation in the state. The strongest real estate appreciation over the past 12 months took place in Colorado and Texas where property values are up 10% above the last 2006 real estate peak. You can also see that Texas, Neveda, Washington, and Florida are all 0 state income tax states. Just to have a LLC in California the franchise tax is $875/year. Here in Georgia, the costs are minimal at $50/year. 

The Top 10 States in the order starting with those that gained the most are: (1) Texas, (2) Nevada, (3) Arizona, (4) Colorado, (5) Washington, (6) Oregon, (7) North Carolina, (8) Georgia, (9) Florida and (10) Utah tied with Virginia. Texas was the top destination each year during the eight-year study period

Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 09, 2016, 09:51:22 AM
I sense strawman shenanigans.

Cali business climate will be fine... people still love to live here, companies still like to HQ here.

Silicon Valley isn't going to the rodeo.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 10:08:57 AM
Irvine is no Silicon Valley and Silicon Valley does not make a state.  Additionally,  the heavyweights in SV are conspicuously expanding massive new facilities in other states (Apple, Intel, Tesla and Google to name just a few).  Our states economy depends on much more than just SV and beyond that shining city on a hill the rest are slugging it out in the hedgerows.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 09, 2016, 10:12:07 AM
Pfft.

We still have Hollywood and tons of other types of business that will keep Cali relevant.

Our economy is bigger than many countries.

The sky is not falling.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on March 09, 2016, 10:17:27 AM
It's kinda odd that when comparing to SV, tons of SV jobs allow for telecommute, are the companies leaving Cali allow for telecommute, I doubt Toyota or Carl's jr does. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 10:24:24 AM
I sense strawman shenanigans.

Cali business climate will be fine... people still love to live here, companies still like to HQ here.

Silicon Valley isn't going to the rodeo.

I guess you haven't heard about Silicon Prarie. (Look it up)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 10:25:22 AM
Pfft.

We still have Hollywood and tons of other types of business that will keep Cali relevant.

Our economy is bigger than many countries.

The sky is not falling.

Of course the sky is not falling.  That implies an overnight event.  This has been a slow motion chain reaction car accident.  All I point out is we can step out of the way if we want to or we can stand there in denial and get run over.  Hollywood has realized this too.   The loss of business is tax and regulatory driven.  They are begging for help.

http://canadafreepress.com/article/poor-impoverished-hollywood-is-feeling-the-heat-starts-begging-for-tax-brea (http://canadafreepress.com/article/poor-impoverished-hollywood-is-feeling-the-heat-starts-begging-for-tax-brea)

Poor, impoverished, Hollywood is feeling the heat - starts begging for tax breaks

Even liberal Hollywood is feeling the tires treads. But if you ask them (and I have) they see no hypocrisy in using tax law to their advantage or that they brought this hit and run on themselves...astonishing
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 10:25:43 AM
Pfft.

We still have Hollywood and tons of other types of business that will keep Cali relevant.

Our economy is bigger than many countries.

The sky is not falling.

Why does the state subsidized the entertainment industry and not others? (Political)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 09, 2016, 10:35:06 AM
Pfft.

We still have Hollywood and tons of other types of business that will keep Cali relevant.

Our economy is bigger than many countries.

The sky is not falling.

Why does the state subsidized the entertainment industry and not others? (Political)

It already does.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 10:38:42 AM
To my point of the slow motion nature of this disaster and in answer to the size of our economy, there was a time when California was the 5th largest economy in the world in 2002..

http://www.lao.ca.gov/2002/cal_facts/econ.html (http://www.lao.ca.gov/2002/cal_facts/econ.html)

We slipped to the 9th largest in 2013

http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/calfacts/calfacts_010213.aspx (http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/calfacts/calfacts_010213.aspx)

We have since bumped back to 7th but the direction is still negative.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/10/california-world-7th-largest-economy-larger-than-brazil/ (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/10/california-world-7th-largest-economy-larger-than-brazil/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 10:44:48 AM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/52x9xi.jpg)

You can see that the local job market in Orange County is very much correlated with both the local real estate market and the stock market.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 10:47:28 AM
Pfft.

We still have Hollywood and tons of other types of business that will keep Cali relevant.

Our economy is bigger than many countries.

The sky is not falling.

Why does the state subsidized the entertainment industry and not others? (Political)

It already does.

My point is there are subsidizes for business to shoot movies in California. However for companies like Toyota and Nissan there are none. Some people say because entertainment is tied to the Demcratic party. Tesla's battery plant is in Nevada why not California?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 10:52:02 AM
To my point of the slow motion nature of this disaster and in answer to the size of our economy, there was a time when California was the 5th largest economy in the world in 2002..

http://www.lao.ca.gov/2002/cal_facts/econ.html (http://www.lao.ca.gov/2002/cal_facts/econ.html)

We slipped to the 9th largest in 2013

http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/calfacts/calfacts_010213.aspx (http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2013/calfacts/calfacts_010213.aspx)

We have since bumped back to 7th but the direction is still negative.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/10/california-world-7th-largest-economy-larger-than-brazil/ (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/10/california-world-7th-largest-economy-larger-than-brazil/)

That seems like a pretty arbitrary measuring point.  California is pretty much a mature 1st world market and thus growth is no expected to be very dynamic.  Brazil and Russia fluctuate all the time. 

Additionally, California and New York's GDP are much less dependent on oil and thus did not get the benefit of high oil prices.  Of course, they are much more stable in light of the recent plunge in oil prices.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/25/oil-price-plunge-isnt-all-good-news-for-the-economy.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/baker-ahles-kaskovich/article55066195.html

California posted 2.3% growth year over year, which is extremely impressive in light of the global recession and it being such a huge economy.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-economy-growth-20150929-story.html

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/california-bested-texas

Oh...let's see how the low tax/low regulation experiment out in Kansas is going

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41976/sam-brownback-kansas-budget/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 10:52:58 AM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/52x9xi.jpg)

You can see that the local job market in Orange County is very much correlated with both the local real estate market and the stock market.

You can make the argument that the reverse is true.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 11:03:41 AM
I think we can all agree if there is a sudden 50% drop in the S&P between 2016-2017, the local job market in Orange County will look similar to that of 2007-2009.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/52x9xi.jpg)

You can see that the local job market in Orange County is very much correlated with both the local real estate market and the stock market.

You can make the argument that the reverse is true.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 11:09:48 AM
I think we can all agree if there is a sudden 50% drop in the S&P between 2016-2017, the local job market in Orange County will look similar to that of 2007-2009.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/52x9xi.jpg)

You can see that the local job market in Orange County is very much correlated with both the local real estate market and the stock market.

You can make the argument that the reverse is true.

I think there is a lot more at play than local real estate if there is such a drop. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 11:14:29 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Gx0p36_oG4A/VMUT10wnyWI/AAAAAAAAAQA/VJo1xKt_WvM/s1600/Inflation%2Badjusted%2BDJIA%2B1982%2Bto%2B2016.JPG)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 11:19:37 AM
Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 11:30:03 AM
That is why Texas off the charts. The largest demographic inflow to Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Austin are Californians. The population growth is unmatched by any other states combined with 0% state income, good schools, and business friendly environment is making Texas a popular destination for Californians.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 09, 2016, 11:33:29 AM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 11:50:52 AM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 11:53:22 AM
That is why Texas off the charts. The largest demographic inflow to Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Austin are Californians. The population growth is unmatched by any other states combined with 0% state income, good schools, and business friendly environment is making Texas a popular destination for Californians.

Texas' economy is in a freefall thanks for the drop in oil prices...their schools are not good.  There are a lot very good private schools but their public school system is not very good.

http://www.texasobserver.org/everything-need-know-texas-school-finance-ruling/

And finally, it's Texas.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 11:57:33 AM
Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

Real estate price is one of the major reason why businesses are leaving...they cannot find an affordable work force.  California is a victim of its own success.

Quote
Those moving to California tend to have higher incomes. About 35% of working-age people moving in make more than $50,000 annually, compared with 27% of those moving out.

The disparity gets progressively pronounced at the lower end of the income scale.

For those making $40,000 to $49,999, for instance, the net loss of population is 15,403 residents since 2007. The loss is 22,754 residents in the $30,000 to $39,999 range, then more than doubles to 46,318 residents in the $20,000 to $29,999 range.

"Housing prices are a primary factor, because that's usually the first thing you deal with when you're moving," said Dowell Myers, a professor of demography and urban planning at USC.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-20150101-story.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 12:13:50 PM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 12:20:28 PM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

No...Portland would be no. 1, Seattle would be no. 2, and Vegas would be 3.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Seattle and Vegas are both 0% state income states. Thanks for your top 3 list.. What are your reasons why you have selected these three cities?

I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

No...Portland would be no. 1, Seattle would be no. 2, and Vegas would be 3.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 12:38:55 PM
Seattle and Vegas are both 0% state income states. Thanks for your top 3 list.. What are your reasons why you have selected these three cities?

I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

No...Portland would be no. 1, Seattle would be no. 2, and Vegas would be 3.

Actually...Portland would be a 0% income tax state.   Pretty much mix of the population and decent weather. 

These are distant choice however.  Oregon has terrible school systems and not great on jobs.  Seattle is just as expensive as California but not as good schools and as diverse.

Vegas is nice in that it is close to Southern California and good diversity but the weather is not great.  Also, not very diverse job field and not so good schools.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 12:43:44 PM
Cost of living is one of the reason why companies are leaving.
Here are other reasons:
income state tax, regulations, subsidies given by other states, ...

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

Real estate price is one of the major reason why businesses are leaving...they cannot find an affordable work force.  California is a victim of its own success.

Quote
Those moving to California tend to have higher incomes. About 35% of working-age people moving in make more than $50,000 annually, compared with 27% of those moving out.

The disparity gets progressively pronounced at the lower end of the income scale.

For those making $40,000 to $49,999, for instance, the net loss of population is 15,403 residents since 2007. The loss is 22,754 residents in the $30,000 to $39,999 range, then more than doubles to 46,318 residents in the $20,000 to $29,999 range.

"Housing prices are a primary factor, because that's usually the first thing you deal with when you're moving," said Dowell Myers, a professor of demography and urban planning at USC.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-migration-20150101-story.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 09, 2016, 12:52:44 PM
And finally, it's Texas.
And hot as heck... like Georgia. :)

Like IC mentions, there is way more in play than just income taxes, lower housing prices, etc etc. Quality of life is not measured just by how much things cost.

All I know is I can play outdoor basketball almost anytime of the year in Irvine.

My top 3 get out of Cali locations are similar to IC's... except for Vegas... I have to stay near the ocean.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 12:59:56 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility. 
Ask Moonbeam Brown how his bullet train is coming along.  Tesla ran for the border in order to get it done.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:02:53 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility.  Tesla ran for the border on order to get it done.

They could have gone to a number of states...California was never a serious candidate.

Quote
In a conference call last week, Musk said Tesla would break ground at its first site next month, then follow up at a second site a month or two later. He said the Brown administration is working hard to accommodate Tesla, and he called California an “improbable, but not impossible” contender.

Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico remain contenders, but the prospect of Texas and California going head-to-head would continue the red state vs. blue state narrative that Gov. Rick Perry loves so much.

Some analysts question whether California is truly a contender or whether Musk is trying to appease officials in a state where he will still build cars, rockets and solar panels at his various businesses no matter where the battery plant is located.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-alternative-energy/2014/05/12/Will-Tesla-gigafactory-fight-come-down-to-Texas-vs-California/stories/201405120156

Point is that Nevada needed Tesla a lot more than California did. 

Also...not always as simple as it seems:

Quote
Losers:

Insurance companies: For more than 40 years, insurance companies that have their home office in Nevada have received tax credits that cost Nevada about $27 million a year. That program would go away and the money diverted to fund tax credits for Tesla. That's a $27 million tax increase for those insurance companies.

Film productions: In a hard fought battle at the Legislature, the film industry succeeded in passing a four-year $80 million film tax incentive program. If the Tesla deal goes through, that incentive program will be slashed to $10 million.

Car Dealerships: In other states, car dealerships have lobbied hard for laws to prevent Tesla from selling directly to the consumer in manufacturer-owned stores. Under this package, the Nevada Legislature would pass a new law giving electric car manufacturers the explicit right to sell directly to the consumer without going through a dealer franchise.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/09/04/nevada-strikes-billion-tax-break-deal-tesla/15096777/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 09, 2016, 01:03:01 PM
IHO, actually the recent summers here in Georgia haven't been that bad. The heat here is nowhere near that of Vegas, Dallas, or Phoenix. I don't think we got any snow this winter and actually we had one of the warmest unusual winter weather here. I remember our last Christmas eve weather was in the high 70s here in Atlanta. I don't know if you want to call it global warming.

And finally, it's Texas.
And hot as heck... like Georgia. :)

Like IC mentions, there is way more in play than just income taxes, lower housing prices, etc etc. Quality of life is not measured just by how much things cost.

All I know is I can play outdoor basketball almost anytime of the year in Irvine.

My top 3 get out of Cali locations are similar to IC's... except for Vegas... I have to stay near the ocean.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2016, 01:07:39 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility.  Tesla ran for the border on order to get it done.

They could have gone to a number of states...California was never a serious candidate.

Quote
In a conference call last week, Musk said Tesla would break ground at its first site next month, then follow up at a second site a month or two later. He said the Brown administration is working hard to accommodate Tesla, and he called California an “improbable, but not impossible” contender.

Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico remain contenders, but the prospect of Texas and California going head-to-head would continue the red state vs. blue state narrative that Gov. Rick Perry loves so much.

Some analysts question whether California is truly a contender or whether Musk is trying to appease officials in a state where he will still build cars, rockets and solar panels at his various businesses no matter where the battery plant is located.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-alternative-energy/2014/05/12/Will-Tesla-gigafactory-fight-come-down-to-Texas-vs-California/stories/201405120156

Point is that Nevada needed Tesla a lot more than California did. 

Also...not always as simple as it seems:

Quote
Losers:

Insurance companies: For more than 40 years, insurance companies that have their home office in Nevada have received tax credits that cost Nevada about $27 million a year. That program would go away and the money diverted to fund tax credits for Tesla. That's a $27 million tax increase for those insurance companies.

Film productions: In a hard fought battle at the Legislature, the film industry succeeded in passing a four-year $80 million film tax incentive program. If the Tesla deal goes through, that incentive program will be slashed to $10 million.

Car Dealerships: In other states, car dealerships have lobbied hard for laws to prevent Tesla from selling directly to the consumer in manufacturer-owned stores. Under this package, the Nevada Legislature would pass a new law giving electric car manufacturers the explicit right to sell directly to the consumer without going through a dealer franchise.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/09/04/nevada-strikes-billion-tax-break-deal-tesla/15096777/

The point is California lost again...we have to start winning again
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:11:28 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility.  Tesla ran for the border on order to get it done.

They could have gone to a number of states...California was never a serious candidate.

Quote
In a conference call last week, Musk said Tesla would break ground at its first site next month, then follow up at a second site a month or two later. He said the Brown administration is working hard to accommodate Tesla, and he called California an “improbable, but not impossible” contender.

Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico remain contenders, but the prospect of Texas and California going head-to-head would continue the red state vs. blue state narrative that Gov. Rick Perry loves so much.

Some analysts question whether California is truly a contender or whether Musk is trying to appease officials in a state where he will still build cars, rockets and solar panels at his various businesses no matter where the battery plant is located.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-alternative-energy/2014/05/12/Will-Tesla-gigafactory-fight-come-down-to-Texas-vs-California/stories/201405120156

Point is that Nevada needed Tesla a lot more than California did. 

Also...not always as simple as it seems:

Quote
Losers:

Insurance companies: For more than 40 years, insurance companies that have their home office in Nevada have received tax credits that cost Nevada about $27 million a year. That program would go away and the money diverted to fund tax credits for Tesla. That's a $27 million tax increase for those insurance companies.

Film productions: In a hard fought battle at the Legislature, the film industry succeeded in passing a four-year $80 million film tax incentive program. If the Tesla deal goes through, that incentive program will be slashed to $10 million.

Car Dealerships: In other states, car dealerships have lobbied hard for laws to prevent Tesla from selling directly to the consumer in manufacturer-owned stores. Under this package, the Nevada Legislature would pass a new law giving electric car manufacturers the explicit right to sell directly to the consumer without going through a dealer franchise.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/09/04/nevada-strikes-billion-tax-break-deal-tesla/15096777/

The point is California lost again...we have to start winning again

What are you Trump?  California has been winning.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 01:16:37 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility.  Tesla ran for the border on order to get it done.

They could have gone to a number of states...California was never a serious candidate.

Quote
In a conference call last week, Musk said Tesla would break ground at its first site next month, then follow up at a second site a month or two later. He said the Brown administration is working hard to accommodate Tesla, and he called California an “improbable, but not impossible” contender.

Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico remain contenders, but the prospect of Texas and California going head-to-head would continue the red state vs. blue state narrative that Gov. Rick Perry loves so much.

Some analysts question whether California is truly a contender or whether Musk is trying to appease officials in a state where he will still build cars, rockets and solar panels at his various businesses no matter where the battery plant is located.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-alternative-energy/2014/05/12/Will-Tesla-gigafactory-fight-come-down-to-Texas-vs-California/stories/201405120156

Point is that Nevada needed Tesla a lot more than California did. 

Also...not always as simple as it seems:

Quote
Losers:

Insurance companies: For more than 40 years, insurance companies that have their home office in Nevada have received tax credits that cost Nevada about $27 million a year. That program would go away and the money diverted to fund tax credits for Tesla. That's a $27 million tax increase for those insurance companies.

Film productions: In a hard fought battle at the Legislature, the film industry succeeded in passing a four-year $80 million film tax incentive program. If the Tesla deal goes through, that incentive program will be slashed to $10 million.

Car Dealerships: In other states, car dealerships have lobbied hard for laws to prevent Tesla from selling directly to the consumer in manufacturer-owned stores. Under this package, the Nevada Legislature would pass a new law giving electric car manufacturers the explicit right to sell directly to the consumer without going through a dealer franchise.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/09/04/nevada-strikes-billion-tax-break-deal-tesla/15096777/

The point is California lost again...we have to start winning again

We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on March 09, 2016, 01:17:31 PM
You can get used to the heat in those hot places.  It would get well over 120 outside where I lived and I can't remember a day where I didn't play ball outdoors.  We would even play with high winds, so...  yeah.

Texas' economy is in a freefall thanks for the drop in oil prices...their schools are not good.  There are a lot very good private schools but their public school system is not very good.

http://www.texasobserver.org/everything-need-know-texas-school-finance-ruling/
California schools aren't so great.  Irvine is great, but the rest of the state is spotty.  I'm sure the same can be said with other areas in the country.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 01:20:34 PM
Not as easy as that. There is more at play than just taxes. For example, I believe Tesla's deciding factor to move next door was fear of litigation.

Just imagine if California cut the tax rate, there will be more companies that will come back to California. Real estate will be off the charts.

California Politicians don't know and understand business.

It was a lot of things...cheap labor, lower housing costs, no income tax, huge tax incentive, more work force.

Believe me, regulatory environment was one of the major reasons.  Building that plant in this state would be a red tape nightmare, very close to an impossibility.  Tesla ran for the border on order to get it done.

They could have gone to a number of states...California was never a serious candidate.

Quote
In a conference call last week, Musk said Tesla would break ground at its first site next month, then follow up at a second site a month or two later. He said the Brown administration is working hard to accommodate Tesla, and he called California an “improbable, but not impossible” contender.

Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico remain contenders, but the prospect of Texas and California going head-to-head would continue the red state vs. blue state narrative that Gov. Rick Perry loves so much.

Some analysts question whether California is truly a contender or whether Musk is trying to appease officials in a state where he will still build cars, rockets and solar panels at his various businesses no matter where the battery plant is located.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource/latest-alternative-energy/2014/05/12/Will-Tesla-gigafactory-fight-come-down-to-Texas-vs-California/stories/201405120156

Point is that Nevada needed Tesla a lot more than California did. 

Also...not always as simple as it seems:

Quote
Losers:

Insurance companies: For more than 40 years, insurance companies that have their home office in Nevada have received tax credits that cost Nevada about $27 million a year. That program would go away and the money diverted to fund tax credits for Tesla. That's a $27 million tax increase for those insurance companies.

Film productions: In a hard fought battle at the Legislature, the film industry succeeded in passing a four-year $80 million film tax incentive program. If the Tesla deal goes through, that incentive program will be slashed to $10 million.

Car Dealerships: In other states, car dealerships have lobbied hard for laws to prevent Tesla from selling directly to the consumer in manufacturer-owned stores. Under this package, the Nevada Legislature would pass a new law giving electric car manufacturers the explicit right to sell directly to the consumer without going through a dealer franchise.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/09/04/nevada-strikes-billion-tax-break-deal-tesla/15096777/

The point is California lost again...we have to start winning again

What are you Trump?  California has been winning.

How are we winning? We are in debt to our eyeballs. The state keeps on spending and spending. It's easy to spend money, like a corporate credit card. We need better leaders in our state.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:21:31 PM
Quote
We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.

Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on March 09, 2016, 01:21:49 PM
Seattle while great, rains too much.
Vegas way too hot.
Maybe consider some place in Colorado (cool weather), or Austin (nicer topography compared to Dallas), maybe some place in Florida (beach, but humid, hurricanes), close tie with Georgia (northern, like Alpharetta where a lot of businesses are)
All leads back to SoCal for the weather... Now where in SoCal if not Irvine is a toughy :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:23:32 PM
Quote
California schools aren't so great.  Irvine is great, but the rest of the state is spotty.  I'm sure the same can be said with other areas in the country.

Yes but California has a lot more really bright spots.  Oregon for example has one maybe two good school district (Lake Oswego and Hillsboro)...that's it for the entire state.  The state university and University of Oregon system are bad.

Nevada:  Best school is UNLV...followed by UofN-Reno.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on March 09, 2016, 01:27:19 PM
Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

It can be awesome, but will it?  How will it work?  How much will it cost?  Where does it start, where will it go? 

Taking Amtrak vs a car is pretty expensive when you have more than one person.  On top of that, taxpayers pay for half of it.  I'm sure it's better and much more efficient elsewhere, but it doesn't feel the same way out here.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:29:53 PM
Quote
How are we winning? We are in debt to our eyeballs. The state keeps on spending and spending. It's easy to spend money, like a corporate credit card. We need better leaders in our state.

A truly diversified job/business market, leaders in green technology, computers, and bioscience.  All done while preserving the environment and beauty of the state. 

California is projected to perform significantly better than the rest of the country in both growth and jobs.   

Last budget has a $2 billion surplus which is being saved and reinvested.  Great job by California government.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 01:54:38 PM
Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

It can be awesome, but will it?  How will it work?  How much will it cost?  Where does it start, where will it go? 

Taking Amtrak vs a car is pretty expensive when you have more than one person.  On top of that, taxpayers pay for half of it.  I'm sure it's better and much more efficient elsewhere, but it doesn't feel the same way out here.

Ultimately, SD to Bay Area.  Cost estimates and projection are all over the place right now.  Supporter say it will costs $86 to go from LA to SF, opponents say a lot more.  Supporters say that the system is self-sustaining, opponents say that it has to be subsidized.  There are success stories and failures from all over the globe.  No one really knows

But that's is part of the price of forward thinking and development.  If you just sit around as a government and be reactive, you will be left behind. 

Silicon Valley was created as a result of heavy federal and state investment. 

California put a lot of money to bolster up and spread out the UC and CSU system, which led the state to being a world leader for business, technology, innovation, and ideas.

California basically restricted itself after the 1970s to stop development of natural resources like oil and to impose significant environmental restrictions.  That has resulted in a much cleaner environment and the move away from energy dependent economy. 

California had a plan and invested heavily into green energy when plenty of people thought the investment was folly and wasteful.

Another example is setting high emission standard and using cap and trade to encourage growth in the proper industries.   California has been the leader on those issues for many years, when many people complained that the standards are too high or too onerous.  Yet here we are, everything is just fine.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-cap-and-trade-is-working-in-california-1411937795

Innovation and progress are messy and sometimes failures...but progress requires constant movement.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 09, 2016, 02:08:20 PM
Quote
We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.

Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

how can it be awesome when it's sharing track?
The hyper loop is awesome.

Do you work for the city or state? (Your answers are far from reality)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 09, 2016, 02:13:29 PM
Quote
We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.

Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

how can it be awesome when it's sharing track?
The hyper loop is awesome.

Do you work for the city or state? (Your answers are far from reality)

It's sharing track between SJC and SF...most of the space is going to be dedicated track. 

I work for neither.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on March 10, 2016, 09:12:50 AM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: WTTCHMN on March 10, 2016, 09:22:26 AM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.

People always champion diversity, but at the end of the day, they crave to be surrounded by those who look and think like them.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 10, 2016, 11:10:28 AM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.

Are you serious?  Portland is extremely liberal.  OC is pretty darn conservative, especially in the South County area. 

I have visited quite a few areas in this lovely country of ours...California is by far the best IMO.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: SoCal on March 10, 2016, 11:47:04 AM
It looks like you skimmed my comment a little too quickly, IC. Might want to look at it again.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 10, 2016, 11:48:37 AM
Quote
We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.

Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

how can it be awesome when it's sharing track?
The hyper loop is awesome.

Do you work for the city or state? (Your answers are far from reality)

I should just start a new thread for this because I can see where this is going to go but here it goes..

If you don't think this project is doomed to follow another recent massive public works project into the black hole of finance you really do live in Elisium..

observe...

California High Speed Rail Costs Soar Again

SACRAMENTO -- While much of the squabbling over California's high-speed rail project has focused on its huge construction price tag, the cost to taxpayers just to plan the bullet train is also soaring.

California rail leaders said Tuesday it will cost an extra $97 million in office and field work to design the rail line, which has famously seen its construction cost double to $69 billion since voters approved it five years ago. The extra state and federal funds set aside for planning will wind up in the pockets of private consulting firms, including some that earn billions of dollars in annual revenue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-high-speed-rai_n_3005001.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-high-speed-rai_n_3005001.html)

Much like...

New Bay Bridge cost climb: Follow the money

August 1997: Standard concrete viaduct with a cable-type suspension span but no bike lane or shoulders. (Cost $1.3 billion)

May 2013: Inflation and delays associated with the complexity of fabricating and installing the massive steel decks, coupled with broken steel anchor rods in seismic stabilizers, continue to push the cost projections up, although not at the earlier rate. (Cost $6.4 billion)

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_23833906/new-bay-bridge-cost-climb-follow-money (http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_23833906/new-bay-bridge-cost-climb-follow-money)

Only 10 years late and 400% over projected cost.  probably in line with most California public works projects. What do you think this choo choo will eventually cost? It is gonna be awesome...awesomely painful!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 10, 2016, 11:50:09 AM
It looks like you skimmed my comment a little too quickly, IC. Might want to look at it again.

LOL...with that said, not sure if there are any "conservative" areas I want to move to.  I mean Texas is still trying to figure out whether creationism is a science.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 10, 2016, 11:52:33 AM
California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Let all the chaff move to Texas, better for Cali in the long run.

I hope my kids stay in SoCali for the rest of their lives because I'm not going anywhere either.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Bullsback on March 10, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.

Are you serious?  Portland is extremely liberal.  OC is pretty darn conservative, especially in the South County area. 

I have visited quite a few areas in this lovely country of ours...California is by far the best IMO.
OC was pretty conservative. That has changed significantly over the past 10 years. Some articles out there but Irvine for example has actually become I believe statistically a liberal city (albeit slightly). 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Bullsback on March 10, 2016, 11:55:49 AM
If in 20+ years my kids move, I'll just up and move...hopefully that by point working remote will be easy or better yet I'll be semi retired (by choice) and picking projects I want to do. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 10, 2016, 11:57:08 AM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.

Are you serious?  Portland is extremely liberal.  OC is pretty darn conservative, especially in the South County area. 

I have visited quite a few areas in this lovely country of ours...California is by far the best IMO.
OC was pretty conservative. That has changed significantly over the past 10 years. Some articles out there but Irvine for example has actually become I believe statistically a liberal city (albeit slightly).

Most of the movement is in the North County area...especially with the 2nd generation/younger crowd.  South County is still pretty conservative.  Irvine is getting younger and more diverse but I would say that most are not politically active.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 10, 2016, 12:53:07 PM
if your job moves to Los Angeles, how would you feel?

What about the Bay Area?

If they relocate to the IE?  Central Valley?  Emerald triangle?  San Diego?  Sacto?

Serious question, most seem to talk bout Cali like it is a homogeneous thing. 

What if as Irvine ages it becomes more like Montebello?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: AW on March 10, 2016, 01:00:07 PM
I know people who does the daily commute by car/train to/from Irvine to/from LA, IE, SD, at least it's doable unlike out of state. 

The day Irvine turns into montebello, you once had white flight out of Irvine, it will then be Asian flight.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 10, 2016, 02:19:15 PM
if your job moves to Los Angeles, how would you feel?

What about the Bay Area?

If they relocate to the IE?  Central Valley?  Emerald triangle?  San Diego?  Sacto?

Serious question, most seem to talk bout Cali like it is a homogeneous thing. 

What if as Irvine ages it becomes more like Montebello?
Most cities in Cali are better than Texas... if for anything, the weather.

I don't know how spootiehoo can play ball in 120°... I get worn out when it reaches the upper 70s.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on March 10, 2016, 05:27:27 PM
If I hadn't lived, I wouldn't believe it.  I agree, it's pretty unbelievable.

You gotta live in the extreme heat and adjust to it first.  I used to run a few miles per day in that heat too.  Always had plenty of Gatorade.

Something else...  I never wore sunscreen and never got sunburnt.  Now I just go outside for a bit and get sunburnt pretty quickly.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 10, 2016, 05:55:29 PM
Less taxes for rich people just mean more money for rich people...poor people and the state suffer.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/state-budget-crisis/473157/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 11, 2016, 08:27:55 AM
Quote
How are we winning? We are in debt to our eyeballs. The state keeps on spending and spending. It's easy to spend money, like a corporate credit card. We need better leaders in our state.

A truly diversified job/business market, leaders in green technology, computers, and bioscience.  All done while preserving the environment and beauty of the state. 

California is projected to perform significantly better than the rest of the country in both growth and jobs.   

Last budget has a $2 billion surplus which is being saved and reinvested.  Great job by California government.

California owes $400 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-s-400-billion-debt-worries-analysts-6812264.php


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 11, 2016, 08:46:06 AM
De-nial is not just a river in Egypt...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426974/businesses-leave-california-texas (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/426974/businesses-leave-california-texas)

Governor Jerry Brown has made several public statements over the past few years denying a “mass exodus” of California businesses. Brown has a long history of making excuses when businesses reject his state. When Toyota announced it was uprooting three California plants and consolidating its headquarters in Plano, Texas, the Wall Street Journal quoted Brown as saying, “We’ve got a few problems, we have lots of little burdens and regulations and taxes. But smart people figure out how to make it.” The Journal’s retort: “California’s problem is that smart people have figured out they can make it better elsewhere.”

To be fair, Silicon Valley has enjoyed a boom in the last few years. However, as The Economist noted last year, “whereas venture-capitalists and coders may be rushing to California, others cannot wait to leave,” as the state still faces substantial problems of its own making. “Beyond the gilded strip of land between San Francisco and San Jose is another California, an inhospitable place plagued by over-regulation, mindless bureaucracy, high taxes and endless lawsuits,” in addition to the nation’s highest income-tax rate and highest minimum wage.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 11, 2016, 09:53:40 AM
What's wrong with venture capitalists and coders rushing to Cali?

The more rich and nerdy... the better. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 11, 2016, 10:15:06 AM
Since apparently we just copy-pasta partisan opinions and reformat here's another take:

"Net migration isn’t 1% or 2%. It’s plus or minus 0.05% in most cases. Even as a share of total change in employment, migration is massively overwhelmed by employment changes due to local startups and closures, and local expansions and contractions. The truth is, net employment changes due to firm migration are within the rounding error of total employment. Over time they may matter, but overall they’re pretty miniscule."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 11, 2016, 10:15:58 AM
What's wrong with venture capitalists and coders rushing to Cali?

The more rich and nerdy... the better. :)

From the same article.....

In recent years, he says, “California’s job market has rebounded on the strength of Pacific Rim markets, Silicon Valley, and the creative industries. But the Golden State’s big-government-knows-best policymakers continue to export jobs from more traditional sectors of the economy. The net result is a widening rift between the elites who live within ten miles of the Pacific and the rest of the state. It’s only a matter of time before California’s high-tax, heavy-regulation policies will cause the state to once again lead the nation in job losses.” And low-tax, business-friendly Texas will be the biggest beneficiary.

Additionally basic business is hobbled...

Entrepreneurs who survive the ordeal of gathering all the permits needed to start a business — opening a restaurant can take more than two years in California — are then micromanaged by labour laws telling them when to pay overtime, and how much. They suffer electricity prices that are already among America’s highest, and which may rise further to meet the state government’s ambitious carbon-emissions goals. Then there is the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA). A well-intentioned law to curb the damaging effects of development has mutated into a monster. Almost anyone can file a CEQA lawsuit against any project they dislike; plaintiffs win half of the cases they enter, and when they lose, they do not need to cover defendants’ legal fees (the reverse does not apply). Builders are compelled to hire expensive unionised labour to ward off union bosses’ threats of spurious CEQA suits. Shops and petrol stations file cases to prevent competitors from opening up.



 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 11, 2016, 10:30:31 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
So it's all jobless FCBs?

Why is Irvine building those towers? There has to be some article about how many businesses are moving to Irvine and surrounding areas.

Good Question...where are all these articles?  Seems there would be a plethora of bragging if only it were true.  This is not  some rightwing propaganda.  These are published articles from Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, CNBC and the Economist.  Hardly all rightwing media outlets.  I always post the links in order to back premise and give context. Its not just a cut and paste argument.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 11, 2016, 11:15:51 AM
Then why is it getting more crowded in Irvine?

Because it's not businesses moving in...its just people :-\
So it's all jobless FCBs?

Why is Irvine building those towers? There has to be some article about how many businesses are moving to Irvine and surrounding areas.

Good Question...where are all these articles?  Seems there would be a plethora of bragging if only it were true.  This is not  some rightwing propaganda.  These are published articles from Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, CNBC and the Economist.  Hardly all rightwing media outlets.  I always post the links in order to back premise and give context. Its not just a cut and paste argument.

You are quoting an article that appeared on the National Review (self described as "Up-to-the-minute conservative commentary on politics") by a writer (Sarah Rumpf) who is also a contributor to Breitbart. It's fine if you chose to do that but just own up to it. This is hardly an objective commentary.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 11, 2016, 11:45:58 AM
Quotes within that article alone are from Forbes, Wall Street Journal and The Economist.  Don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the message. You are free to quote whatever left wing media source you like to refute the numbers, if you can find any. The question still stands, where are all the articles about all the business and corporate headquarters beating a path to Cali?. Can't even get a restaurant open here without drowning in red tape, regulation and taxes.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 11, 2016, 12:02:35 PM
Quotes within that article alone are from Forbes, Wall Street Journal and The Economist.  Don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the message. You are free to quote whatever left wing media source you like to refute the numbers, if you can find any. The question still stands, where are all the articles about all the business and corporate headquarters beating a path to Cali?. Can't even get a restaurant open here without drowning in red tape, regulation and taxes.

http://bfy.tw/4htm (http://bfy.tw/4htm)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 11, 2016, 02:38:08 PM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

For me, it wouldn't be a "city". I'd pick a more rural location with lower population density.  Preferably near forested areas with game, reliable source of fresh water, small creek to run a hydro turbine or overshot water wheel.  I can keep myself busy gardening on 1-5 acres.  Only issue would be mail delivery (or how far I have to drive to pick up mail).

=======================

As for CA job market, I can speak from personal experience working for couple Fortune 500 companies.  The first one sits at the corner of Sand Canyon and Irvine Center Drive.  My group's work was in-shored to new San Antonio TX office and almost everyone in my group, up to the VP who did not take the relocation package to TX was laid off.  My current employer is across the street from Spectrum and they're relocating 1,300 employees from around the country into shiny new campus in Dallas.  Over the next 4 years they will also add 500 full time positions there, most of which are relocation from other states.  Dallas is providing up to $600,000 in incentives, provided that we have at least 1,600 full time employees there by April 2019.

Considering that employee salary is lower in Dallas, and that the City has to give companies additional economic incentive to move there, I think California or Irvine is not really in a "weak" position.  Employers have to pay much more for salaries, benefits, and real estate here, so the fact that other States have to pay additional bribes to get companies to move, means CA/Irvine is at least desirable in some ways.  However, I don't think we'll stay as desirable in the long term.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 11, 2016, 03:04:56 PM
I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

For me, it wouldn't be a "city". I'd pick a more rural location with lower population density.  Preferably near forested areas with game, reliable source of fresh water, small creek to run a hydro turbine or overshot water wheel.  Only issue would be mail delivery (or how far I have to drive to pick up mail).

=======================

As for CA job market, I can speak from personal experience working for couple Fortune 500 companies.  The first one sits at the corner of Sand Canyon and Irvine Center Drive.  My group's work was in-shored to new San Antonio TX office and almost everyone in my group, up to the VP who did not take the relocation package to TX was laid off.  My current employer is across the street from Spectrum and they're relocating 1,300 employees from around the country into shiny new campus in Dallas.  Over the next 4 years they will also add 500 full time positions there, most of which are relocation from other states.  Dallas is providing up to $600,000 in incentives, provided that we have at least 1,600 full time employees there by April 2019.

Are you moving to Dallas?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 11, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 11, 2016, 03:26:50 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 11, 2016, 03:52:14 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.


momotranslation: "I'm afraid of zombies."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 11, 2016, 03:58:19 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?

At this time, I do not believe the Irvine office will close.  However, if it comes to that and I'm unable to find another job quickly, I can move to my house in Temecula for a while.  The mortgage is $380/month, jogging distance to the vinyards and I can keep 2 chickens in my yard/garden.  Short drive to the ~890 yard shooting range at Pala Indian Reservation.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 11, 2016, 04:01:50 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?

At this time, I do not believe the Irvine office will close.  However, if it comes to that and I'm unable to find another job quickly, I can move to my house in Temecula for a while.  The mortgage is $380/month, jogging distance to the vinyards and I can keep 2 chickens in my yard/garden.  Short drive to the ~890 yard shooting range at Pala Indian Reservation.

How did you get a $380 month mortgage? You bought back in the day?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 11, 2016, 06:37:16 PM
SoCal,
It seems like your boys are extremely smart. My best friend is a Harvard alumni and he is an executive at a fortune 500 insurance company. Part time he interviews prospective Harvard students in the Chicagoland area. He tells me that the world we live in now is a very different place since we were kids growing. Back then it was all about getting good grades, attending an elite university, and get a high paid W2 job in corporate America.

He says the skills I need to teach my kids today is not all about academics but more on entreprenuership, creativity, interpersonal skills, and leadership. Suprisingly, he is not focused on getting his two boys into an Ivy league school but raising them to be well balanced so that they can be productive and independently successful adults. I agree with you the best years of California is behind you and you want your boys to do well not just in academics but as adults. Putting them in the right environment where they can succeed is very important in my opinion. Our boys attend an elementary school here where more than 50% of students are Asian and personally I don't think this is a very healthy environment for them as this is not reflective of what the real world is like.

Check out these two links on Kiplingers. I am not saying you should consider Georgia when you retire, but one of the great perks in the peach state is that your social security benefits are not taxed. Your passive income or retirement income is exempt up to $70k between the ages of 62 to 64 and exempt up to $130k when you are 65 and over. Property taxes cut in half for senior citizens depending on the county you are in. Another great benefit is our non-need based HOPE scholarship where tuition is paid for by the state for any GA state school i.e. Georgia Tech. I believe the High School GPA requirement is like a 3.0 and you can get books and room and board subsidized at 3.5 and above. My Harvard friend is on target to retire right when his first son is a junior in high school and he plans move to Atlanta from Chicago to possibly take advantage of the HOPE scholarship. The total costs for college (4 years) even in a state school can run $150k per child in about 5 years assuming no financial aid or grants.     

California - Second Worst State to Retire
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/index.php?map=&state_id=5&state=California

Georgia - Fourth Best State to Retire
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/index.php?map=&state_id=11&state=Georgia

     

I wanted to ask you guys a hypothetical question. If you were forced to move out of California and you can work your job anywhere with a WI-FI access. Which city and state would you choose and why? Would Dallas/Fort Worth be your first choice?

In would depend on what stage of life I was in i.e. the future vs. if I could go back in time and do my life over. The Dallas area. Highlands Ranch, CO. Mayyybe Summerlin, NV. Perhaps some parts of Arizona.

Panda, it's too late for me since I'm locked into O.C. until my youngest graduates high school but, as I was just telling Mr. SoCal last night, California's best days are behind it... I want better for our kids. I would advise them with confidence that, after college, they should start their lives and families in a different area. I'm willing to move with them, especially, to any nice conservative area that's not infested with snow or kooky liberals. I'm looking at you, Portland.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 11, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
Panda - just curious is there an income limit for the full ride scholarship?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 11, 2016, 08:22:10 PM
Eyephone,
The HOPE scholarship is not income based from my knowledge, but the rules and requirements have been changing over time. One guy I know makes a salary of $120k and his son just got accepted to Purdue University in West Lafayette. He lives in Chicago, therefore he is paying out-of-state tuition and he did not get any financial aid or grant what so ever with his income. One of my VIP investment clients' son recently graduated from Georgia Tech. I know he makes over $200,000/year as a VP in a mid size Japanese Firm in Duluth. He told me he did not have a Education 529 IRA plan, but his out of pocket cost for 4 years just for room&board, books, and expenses for his son was just shy of $50,000. Tuition was paid in full by the state. He is now in his mid 50s and he is all set to retire in couple of years.

The Zen Miller Scholarship requires either a 3.5 or 3.7 GPA which comes with a higher subsidy than the HOPE which only requires a 3.0 GPA. These days Berkeley and UCLA has an acceptance rate of 15% which is as difficult to get into as an Ivy. I look at the college tuition the same way as I evaluate any investment opportunities. I want to see what my ROI looks like.

Here is some information on the HOPE scholarship.
https://secure.gacollege411.org/Financial_Aid_Planning/HOPE_Program/Georgia_s_HOPE_Scholarship_Program_Overview.aspx

Here is the best ROI colleges: Tech #3, Berkeley #8, and UCSD is #12
http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/best-roi-colleges/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 11, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?

At this time, I do not believe the Irvine office will close.  However, if it comes to that and I'm unable to find another job quickly, I can move to my house in Temecula for a while.  The mortgage is $380/month, jogging distance to the vinyards and I can keep 2 chickens in my yard/garden.  Short drive to the ~890 yard shooting range at Pala Indian Reservation.

How did you get a $380 month mortgage? You bought back in the day?

No, I bought that SFR in 2012.  RE in Riverside county crash hard in down cycle, $300k house can drop to $100k.  Back then I saw SFR in south riverside county for $85k and Sacramento for $65k.

It's a little 2 bed 2 bath SFR on ~7000 sq ft lot with 2 car garage and drive way.  Had minor termite damage and seller split the repair cost.  I think I paid around $98k for the house.  Backs to a park/trail.

However, if anyone is considering buying a house there, I would suggest buying one closer to the corona metro link station (or another station). Traffic is bad on the I-15, but if you lived close to the metrolnk station you could take the train to work in LA or OC.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 12, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?

At this time, I do not believe the Irvine office will close.  However, if it comes to that and I'm unable to find another job quickly, I can move to my house in Temecula for a while.  The mortgage is $380/month, jogging distance to the vinyards and I can keep 2 chickens in my yard/garden.  Short drive to the ~890 yard shooting range at Pala Indian Reservation.

How did you get a $380 month mortgage? You bought back in the day?

No, I bought that SFR in 2012.  RE in Riverside county crash hard in down cycle, $300k house can drop to $100k.  Back then I saw SFR in south riverside county for $85k and Sacramento for $65k.

It's a little 2 bed 2 bath SFR on ~7000 sq ft lot with 2 car garage and drive way.  Had minor termite damage and seller split the repair cost.  I think I paid around $98k for the house.  Backs to a park/trail.

However, if anyone is considering buying a house there, I would suggest buying one closer to the corona metro link station (or another station). Traffic is bad on the I-15, but if you lived close to the metrolnk station you could take the train to work in LA or OC.

Metrolink is over priced, and the last metro link train leaving la to OC is 6:30. It kinda forces you to get the metro monthly pass so you can take the Amtrak train.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 12, 2016, 01:56:44 PM
Are you moving to Dallas?

No.  Too many people.

I'm not a hermit, but I consider high population density as a liability.

So what's going to happen?

At this time, I do not believe the Irvine office will close.  However, if it comes to that and I'm unable to find another job quickly, I can move to my house in Temecula for a while.  The mortgage is $380/month, jogging distance to the vinyards and I can keep 2 chickens in my yard/garden.  Short drive to the ~890 yard shooting range at Pala Indian Reservation.

How did you get a $380 month mortgage? You bought back in the day?

No, I bought that SFR in 2012.  RE in Riverside county crash hard in down cycle, $300k house can drop to $100k.  Back then I saw SFR in south riverside county for $85k and Sacramento for $65k.

It's a little 2 bed 2 bath SFR on ~7000 sq ft lot with 2 car garage and drive way.  Had minor termite damage and seller split the repair cost.  I think I paid around $98k for the house.  Backs to a park/trail.

However, if anyone is considering buying a house there, I would suggest buying one closer to the corona metro link station (or another station). Traffic is bad on the I-15, but if you lived close to the metrolnk station you could take the train to work in LA or OC.

So you have another house in Sacramento?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on March 12, 2016, 04:30:01 PM
I've always known of momopi as the food expert as he seemed to always contribute a lot on the food section on the old IHB site, but he is very smart and knowledgeable real estate investor who also owns income properties himself in California. I have known momopi online for the past 8 years thru the old Irvine housing blog.

For those you guys interested in keeping your investments close to home, I would definitely seek his advice. He is sharp guy and he would be a very good resource.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
If you check metro link web site for trains running from north corona main station to Irvine station, you will find 4-5 trains in morning and 4-5 trains in afternoon.  Commuting by train to work in Irvine (1 HR each way) is feasible.  Houses in Corona are much cheaper than Irvine, Mike Raahauges range local, ~15 miles to ranch 99 in chino hills.

Hmm.  In retrospect maybe I should have invested in Corona instead of Murrieta and Temecula.  If you lived in temecula and had to drive to corona station to take train to Irvine, the commuting will be like 2 hours each way.

I went to look at RE in Oakland, Sacramento, and Rancho Cordova few years back.   My aunt is from Brazil and her brother is a slumlord in Oakland.  Cheap RE but you have to make sure you did not buy on wrong side of street and need to collect rent in cash monthly. While we were looking at a house, a gentlemen was hopping the fence from across the street and accidentally dropped a bag of crack from his socks. He politely apologized, picked up his crack and continued on his merry way.  NEXT.

Drove to Sacramento and meet up with an internet friend who invests there.  Cheap SFR's (back then), fix it up and rent for 850/month. Neighborhood run down with boarded up homes and businesses. Lots of homeless living under overpass and in parks next to river fishing for lunch.  Was tempted to pack a fishing rod and join them.  NEXT.

Drove to Rancho Cordova and found nice suburbs and local Korean community.  I think there's a couple Korean markets there too. Went to inspect a SFR that my doctor was interested in.  Did not invest there due to distance, but would definitely consider taking a closer look again in future.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 12, 2016, 11:34:18 PM
If you check metro link web site for trains running from north corona main station to Irvine station, you will find 4-5 trains in morning and 4-5 trains in afternoon.  Commuting by train to work in Irvine (1 HR each way) is feasible.  Houses in Corona are much cheaper than Irvine, Mike Raahauges range local, ~15 miles to ranch 99 in chino hills.

I was talking about Metrolink la downtown to Irvine (OC)


Seems like mail theft is common in Corona.

http://abc7.com/news/mail-theft-in-corona-leads-to-delivery-shutdown/1206887/

http://m.pe.com/articles/mail-791504-stolen-arrested.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 12, 2016, 11:52:36 PM
I'm in the Cerritos area and the train schedule to Irvine sucks from Norwalk/Santa Fe springs station.

As many people buy from Amazon instead of local shops, mail/package theft will become a bigger problem. I paid for PO box at UPS store and have all my important mail sent there.  They also sign and hold my packages.

At one rental house in Chino, thieves actually stole the entire metal HOA mail box that was bolted into concrete pad.  I should take a picture and post it here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 12, 2016, 11:58:27 PM
I'm in the Cerritos area and the train schedule to Irvine sucks from Norwalk/Santa Fe springs station.

As many people buy from Amazon instead of local shops, mail/package theft will become a bigger problem. I paid for PO box at UPS store and have all my important mail sent there.  They also sign and hold my packages.

How much does it cost for a po box? (I'm too lazy to check)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on March 13, 2016, 12:05:15 AM
I think I pay about $20/month.  There are cheaper alternatives but too lazy to change address on so many stuff for my entire family (including parents).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 13, 2016, 12:12:51 AM
I think I pay about $20/month.  There are cheaper alternatives but too lazy to change address on so many stuff for my entire family (including parents).

I forgot you have rentals, so the po box is ideal.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 19, 2016, 09:10:19 AM
Quote
We pay high taxes to fund the social programs in California.
The high speed train is a joke.

Forward thinking is such a terrible thing...high speed train is awesome.

how can it be awesome when it's sharing track?
The hyper loop is awesome.

Do you work for the city or state? (Your answers are far from reality)

I should just start a new thread for this because I can see where this is going to go but here it goes..

If you don't think this project is doomed to follow another recent massive public works project into the black hole of finance you really do live in Elisium..

observe...

California High Speed Rail Costs Soar Again

SACRAMENTO -- While much of the squabbling over California's high-speed rail project has focused on its huge construction price tag, the cost to taxpayers just to plan the bullet train is also soaring.

California rail leaders said Tuesday it will cost an extra $97 million in office and field work to design the rail line, which has famously seen its construction cost double to $69 billion since voters approved it five years ago. The extra state and federal funds set aside for planning will wind up in the pockets of private consulting firms, including some that earn billions of dollars in annual revenue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-high-speed-rai_n_3005001.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-high-speed-rai_n_3005001.html)

Much like...

New Bay Bridge cost climb: Follow the money

August 1997: Standard concrete viaduct with a cable-type suspension span but no bike lane or shoulders. (Cost $1.3 billion)

May 2013: Inflation and delays associated with the complexity of fabricating and installing the massive steel decks, coupled with broken steel anchor rods in seismic stabilizers, continue to push the cost projections up, although not at the earlier rate. (Cost $6.4 billion)

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_23833906/new-bay-bridge-cost-climb-follow-money (http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_23833906/new-bay-bridge-cost-climb-follow-money)

Only 10 years late and 400% over projected cost.  probably in line with most California public works projects. What do you think this choo choo will eventually cost? It is gonna be awesome...awesomely painful!

Not that my faith in Cali politicians could get any lower but you think we should look into filling that $42 Billion dollar funding gap now? This is Enron-esque in its hubris and stupidity but is uniquely Californian.

Lawmakers seek to tighten bullet train oversight, suggesting growing concern about the project

The analyst's office had recommended that the rail authority provide more information about how a $43-billion gap in funding the construction would be closed.

Rail authority chief Dan Richard has said repeatedly in recent weeks that it should not be necessary to identify where all of the money will come from, noting that existing funds were surprises and that future unexpected funding should not be discounted.

Patterson said that strategy is not likely to assuage the Legislature


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-rail-bill-20160419-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-rail-bill-20160419-story.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: The California Court Company on May 06, 2016, 09:55:23 AM
Jamba Juice HQ moving to TX

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-jamba-juice-20160506-snap-story.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2016, 10:14:24 AM
Jamba Juice HQ moving to TX

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-jamba-juice-20160506-snap-story.html

Good find. I expect more companies like this to move. I was thinking about it, and there's not a good reason for them to stay in California. In my opinion, it's a typical retail store front operations.

What does the CA legislature do about this? Nothing
I think we need a change.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 06, 2016, 10:37:24 AM
Let's make California Great Again!!!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: acpme on June 16, 2016, 09:29:44 AM
Median income in Torrance: 70K
Median home value: 700K

Median income in Plano: 90K
Median home value: 300K

I'd probably do the move. The northern suburbs of Dallas are arguably a lot nicer than South Bay of LA unless you're living in PV.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on June 16, 2016, 12:26:31 PM
Both the Denver and Dallas Housing market is on fire making new highs. Flower Mound is also a very nice area. Did you know that property taxes are around 3% in Plano?

(https://s31.postimg.org/umx92eo97/Dallas.jpg)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 16, 2016, 01:53:54 PM
Still too hot.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 17, 2016, 05:37:47 PM
Still too hot.

And too humid (plus hail plus tornadoes).   If I move out of CA, it'll be most likely be to Las Vegas. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: acpme on June 20, 2016, 02:33:20 PM
Both the Denver and Dallas Housing market is on fire making new highs. Flower Mound is also a very nice area. Did you know that property taxes are around 3% in Plano?

(https://s31.postimg.org/umx92eo97/Dallas.jpg)

But no state income tax and overall lower costs of housing/living.

Will say that Prop 13 is nice and makes it hard to ever consider selling a property in CA.

Flower Mound and the lakeside neighborhoods in the far northwest of Dallas are some of the wealthiest in North TX, but a bit far from employment centers. Plano is in the sweet spot of a massive shift in corporate relos from CA, IL, and other high cost states.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Perspective on June 20, 2016, 02:40:42 PM
Still too hot.

And too humid (plus hail plus tornadoes).   If I move out of CA, it'll be most likely be to Las Vegas.

Whoa, didn't expect that sentence to end with "Vegas." Ouch.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on June 20, 2016, 03:01:48 PM
Acpme,
Are you seriously thinking about relocating to Dallas? Yes, 0% state income is very sweet. I actually know of a friend who recently relocated to Plano and he owns his own business in the tech space. Plano is a clean, nice, safe, family oriented place just like Irvine at third the cost. I know that real estate prices in Plano has risen quite a bit though in the last few yeaers and the population growth is on fire.

Both the Denver and Dallas Housing market is on fire making new highs. Flower Mound is also a very nice area. Did you know that property taxes are around 3% in Plano?

(https://s31.postimg.org/umx92eo97/Dallas.jpg)

But no state income tax and overall lower costs of housing/living.

Will say that Prop 13 is nice and makes it hard to ever consider selling a property in CA.

Flower Mound and the lakeside neighborhoods in the far northwest of Dallas are some of the wealthiest in North TX, but a bit far from employment centers. Plano is in the sweet spot of a massive shift in corporate relos from CA, IL, and other high cost states.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: acpme on June 21, 2016, 06:48:29 AM
Nope, just spend time down there. I think it's a great place but ultimately Dallas too parochilal. Austin is fun to visit but still a small town and not quite there yet. Houston is diverse but boring and that weather is unbearable compared to North TX.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 23, 2016, 08:50:28 AM
Drip, Drip,  Drip...

California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

During the 12 months ending June 30, the number of people leaving California for another state exceeded by 61,100 the number who moved here from elsewhere in the U.S., according to state Finance Department statistics. The so-called "net outward migration" was the largest since 2011, when 63,300 more people fled California than entered.
"The main factors are housing costs in many parts of the state, including coastal regions of California such as the Bay Area," said Dan Hamilton, director of economics with the Economic Forecasting Center at California Lutheran University in Thousand Oaks.

"California has seen negative outward migration to other states for 22 of the last 25 years."

A recent poll revealed that an unsettling sense of yearning has descended on people in the Bay Area: About one-third of those surveyed by the Bay Area Council say they would like to exit the nine-county region sometime soon.

"They are tired of the expense of living here. They are tired of the state of California and the endless taxes here," said Scott McElfresh, a certified moving consultant. "People are getting soaked every time they turn around."

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30037774/greener-pastures-beckon-some-beleaguered-residents (http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30037774/greener-pastures-beckon-some-beleaguered-residents)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on July 05, 2016, 12:42:53 PM
Drip, Drip,  Drip...

California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents


Love how surveys show people leaving mostly due to high housing costs, while the writer will blame taxes. This is Economics 101:

In a perfectly elastic market, how to you fix a surplus of demand?

Answer: Increase the price

What do you expect to happen after you increase the price of housing?

Demand decreases (residents move to other states)
Supply increases (if only we could manufacture land in San Francisco, Orange County, etc.)

So since supply is pretty much constrained (the market is not perfectly elastic), the main outcome is that residents move to other states in reaction to increasing housing prices.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on July 05, 2016, 06:55:01 PM
(https://s31.postimg.org/vg57zxhdn/california_1.jpg)

(https://s31.postimg.org/72jpqbt97/texas.jpg)

(https://s31.postimg.org/9zoquytnf/florida.jpg)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on July 06, 2016, 09:25:13 AM
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/county-720870-percent-orange.html (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/county-720870-percent-orange.html)

Quote
Chapman forecast: Orange County economy 'falling behind' as tech jobs exit, low-wage work rises

Orange County is losing high-paid jobs and expanding in low-paying industries, while its overall employment growth is set to slow this year, a Chapman University forecast reported Tuesday...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: zubs on July 06, 2016, 12:30:15 PM
From your article:

Quote
But when they sought to buy a home, the most affordable they found was a small $550,000 tract house in Yorba Linda, the price reduced because it had been the scene of a double homicide. Even so, they calculated that with student debt and car payments, they would “feel overwhelmed and burned out” trying to make ends meet.

FYI: murder houses sell at a discount.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 09, 2016, 07:46:28 AM
40% below 1990 levels?... Hmmm well now we need to move to a pre-fire and wheel economy and all hold our breath or wear a catalytic converter over our face...sounds like a winning formula for a thriving economy.  Wait, we are the only state doing this? Texas looking better and better.

California becomes a global laboratory in fight against climate change

California will become a petri dish for international efforts to slow global warming under legislation signed by Gov. Jerry Brown on Thursday, forcing one of the world’s largest economies to squeeze into a dramatically smaller carbon footprint.

The legislation, SB 32, requires the state to slash greenhouse gas emissions to 40% below 1990 levels by 2030, a much more ambitious target than the previous goal of hitting 1990 levels by 2020.

Cutting emissions will affect nearly all aspects of life in the state — where people live, how they get to work, how their food is produced and where their electricity comes from.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-jerry-brown-signs-climate-laws-20160908-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-jerry-brown-signs-climate-laws-20160908-snap-story.html)


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on September 09, 2016, 09:20:51 AM
It's about to get worse.

http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2016/08/12/california-regulatory-policies-businesses-flee.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 18, 2016, 11:50:05 AM
OK, its not Texas but the reasons are clear. Its the high earners that want out. Whats left?...

How one woman is fighting to keep Toastmasters from leaving Orange County

A nonprofit known for training people to give great speeches has clammed up about efforts to move its worldwide headquarters out of Orange County.

Toastmasters International – with 179 employees and 345,000 members in 15,900 clubs in 142 countries – will hold a vote this week at its International Convention in Washington, D.C., on a proposal to move to Denver from Rancho Santa Margarita, where the organization’s home base has been since 1990. A two-thirds vote is required for approval. The club was founded in Santa Ana in 1924.

• She believes the reason the move is being proposed is the top members of the Toastmasters board will face a lower personal income tax rate in Colorado.

Colorado’s income tax rate is 4.63 percent for all incomes. California has nine tax rates, the highest being 12.3 percent.

Individuals also pay less in property taxes in Colorado. California homeowners pay a minimum of 1 percent of their property value in taxes. It can increase up to 3 percent a year. In Colorado the tax rate is decided based on an assessment rate multiplied by the fair market value of the home. Every year it changes.

Right now, an Orange County homeowner would pay $8,800 a year in property taxes on a $800,000 house, while a Colorado resident would be paying less than $5,000.

For companies, taxes are much lower in Colorado than in California. Colorado companies pay 4.63 percent of their company’s net income. California companies pay 8.84 percent, but also have a minimum amount they pay in taxes.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/toastmasters-725912-move-colorado.html (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/toastmasters-725912-move-colorado.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 18, 2016, 12:26:09 PM
Isn't it always more expensive to live in the better areas?

I'll take the beach over the mountains and the desert.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on October 18, 2016, 12:38:23 PM
Isn't it always more expensive to live in the better areas?

I'll take the beach over the mountains and the desert.

I like it better out here, but I rarely ever go to the beach anymore.  I guess it depends on how much you go to the beach.  Other places have nice lakes, and other things, though. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 18, 2016, 01:16:01 PM
Let's be clear they are a non profit, according to the article. Just think of the cost to move the corporate office to Colorado. Also, housing costs in Colorado is increasing.


OK, its not Texas but the reasons are clear. Its the high earners that want out. Whats left?...
How one woman is fighting to keep Toastmasters from leaving Orange County

A nonprofit known for training people to give great speeches has clammed up about efforts to move its worldwide headquarters out of Orange County.

Toastmasters International – with 179 employees and 345,000 members in 15,900 clubs in 142 countries – will hold a vote this week at its International Convention in Washington, D.C., on a proposal to move to Denver from Rancho Santa Margarita, where the organization’s home base has been since 1990. A two-thirds vote is required for approval. The club was founded in Santa Ana in 1924.

• She believes the reason the move is being proposed is the top members of the Toastmasters board will face a lower personal income tax rate in Colorado.

Colorado’s income tax rate is 4.63 percent for all incomes. California has nine tax rates, the highest being 12.3 percent.

Individuals also pay less in property taxes in Colorado. California homeowners pay a minimum of 1 percent of their property value in taxes. It can increase up to 3 percent a year. In Colorado the tax rate is decided based on an assessment rate multiplied by the fair market value of the home. Every year it changes.

Right now, an Orange County homeowner would pay $8,800 a year in property taxes on a $800,000 house, while a Colorado resident would be paying less than $5,000.

For companies, taxes are much lower in Colorado than in California. Colorado companies pay 4.63 percent of their company’s net income. California companies pay 8.84 percent, but also have a minimum amount they pay in taxes.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/toastmasters-725912-move-colorado.html (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/toastmasters-725912-move-colorado.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 19, 2016, 08:44:16 AM
True, so no savings in corp tax. heck, they don't even save in rent or lease costs. According to the article

"The group owns its headquarters building on Arroyo Vista, according to CoStar, a real estate information group."

More a move for the individual high income corp. heads but out they go, bye bye high income earners....hello who?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 19, 2016, 09:14:07 AM
In my opinion it doesn't make sense. Where's the savings for the organization?

True, so no savings in corp tax. heck, they don't even save in rent or lease costs. According to the article

"The group owns its headquarters building on Arroyo Vista, according to CoStar, a real estate information group."

More a move for the individual high income corp. heads but out they go, bye bye high income earners....hello who?

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on October 19, 2016, 03:14:50 PM
True, so no savings in corp tax. heck, they don't even save in rent or lease costs. According to the article

"The group owns its headquarters building on Arroyo Vista, according to CoStar, a real estate information group."

More a move for the individual high income corp. heads but out they go, bye bye high income earners....hello who?

Are they paying mortgage on it?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on October 24, 2016, 10:15:37 AM
If you check metro link web site for trains running from north corona main station to Irvine station, you will find 4-5 trains in morning and 4-5 trains in afternoon.  Commuting by train to work in Irvine (1 HR each way) is feasible.  Houses in Corona are much cheaper than Irvine, Mike Raahauges range local, ~15 miles to ranch 99 in chino hills.

Hmm.  In retrospect maybe I should have invested in Corona instead of Murrieta and Temecula.  If you lived in Temecula and had to drive to corona station to take train to Irvine, the commuting will be like 2 hours each way.

Update:  quoting former coworker who takes the train from Corona to Tustin station for work, the morning commute is a sardine can -- expect to stand all the way.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 25, 2016, 03:41:08 PM
It's official, looks like they are moving to Colorado.

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/toastmasters-732438-headquarters-move.html?

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 25, 2016, 04:04:52 PM
Telling line....

The minimum wage in Colorado is $8.31 an hour. A current ballot initiative would phase in a $12-an-hour minimum wage by 2020. In California, the wage floor will increase incrementally to $15 by 2022.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 26, 2016, 10:16:15 AM
Telling line....

The minimum wage in Colorado is $8.31 an hour. A current ballot initiative would phase in a $12-an-hour minimum wage by 2020. In California, the wage floor will increase incrementally to $15 by 2022.

I hope the organization considered Colorado Amendment 69 aka Coloradocare before deciding to move.

According to the article below, "Colorado employees would pay 3.3 percent of their income into ColoradoCare, while employers would pay 6.67 percent. Business owners and independent contractors would pay the full 10 percent, including any business profits not reinvested into the business."

Source: http://www.aspentimes.com/news/the-changing-cost-of-business-under-coloradocare/

So it looks like the voters of Colorado will vote on this. To me this is game changer. A big thing to consider before moving to Colorado.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 26, 2016, 11:43:33 AM
Where is the savings moving to Colorado, if Coloradocare passes?

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 26, 2016, 12:10:28 PM
I'm gonna guess here...


Colorado's state income tax rate is a flat 4.63% of your federal taxable income, regardless of your income level.

The 80237, Denver, Colorado, general sales tax rate is 2.9%. The combined rate mentioned above is the result of the Colorado state rate (2.9%)

Colorado homeowners pay a much smaller share of home values in property taxes on average than almost any other state — $1,179 a year or 0.632 percent of assessed property value
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on October 26, 2016, 12:16:10 PM
Real Estate in Denver ain't cheap. In terms of home appreciation since the last bubble, Colorado #1.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 26, 2016, 12:48:46 PM
I'm gonna guess here...


Colorado's state income tax rate is a flat 4.63% of your federal taxable income, regardless of your income level.

The 80237, Denver, Colorado, general sales tax rate is 2.9%. The combined rate mentioned above is the result of the Colorado state rate (2.9%)

Colorado homeowners pay a much smaller share of home values in property taxes on average than almost any other state — $1,179 a year or 0.632 percent of assessed property value

If Colorado care passes: employees would pay 3.3%, and employers would pay 6.6%.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 26, 2016, 01:06:43 PM
It will be interesting to see if CO follows us down the rabbit hole and votes in higher taxes on themselves.  Legalized pot may help move the electorate and slow down their thought process.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 21, 2016, 08:31:37 AM
Bye-bye another Fortune 500 company...enjoy the lower taxes, less regulation and business friendly environment.  It was nice growing you here...

Jacobs completes global headquarters move to Dallas

Jacobs Engineering Group said Monday it has moved its global headquarters from Pasadena, California to Dallas as planned.

 Demetriou said in a prepared statement. “In Dallas, we will also benefit from a business friendly economic and cultural environment.”

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2016/10/24/jacobs-completes-global-headquarters-moves-to-dallas/ (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2016/10/24/jacobs-completes-global-headquarters-moves-to-dallas/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on November 21, 2016, 08:50:40 AM
Another reason why Pasadena is taxing streaming services? Lol

Bye-bye another Fortune 500 company...enjoy the lower taxes, less regulation and business friendly environment.  It was nice growing you here...

Jacobs completes global headquarters move to Dallas

Jacobs Engineering Group said Monday it has moved its global headquarters from Pasadena, California to Dallas as planned.

 Demetriou said in a prepared statement. “In Dallas, we will also benefit from a business friendly economic and cultural environment.”

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2016/10/24/jacobs-completes-global-headquarters-moves-to-dallas/ (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2016/10/24/jacobs-completes-global-headquarters-moves-to-dallas/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on November 21, 2016, 08:58:03 AM
Check this link out. It has the minimum wage and tax rate per state.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-05/simple-charts-explain-why-1000s-businesses-are-fleeing-states-california

$15 minimum wage = jobs leaving
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on November 21, 2016, 09:59:21 AM
A way bigger motivator is the cost of housing (especially when you put it as a share of income). For Toyota in particular, I think that was a 3x difference between Torrance, CA and Plano, TX. It's also rather difficult to hire any young talent in areas where housing is so expensive. I was recently chatting with some people from SpaceX (junior level engineers) and they are commuting from way inland to be able to afford a house (and have acceptable schools).
This is not something that would be solved by say repealing any lower limit on wages.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 21, 2016, 11:04:35 AM
...or taxes and business climate...

Jacobs doesn’t manufacture or worry about a high minimum wage. High-ranking executives make up most of those moving, and a key draw to them in Texas is its lack of a state income tax, which California is unlikely to emulate. Jacobs won’t say why the HQ is moving; its only response to an inquiry is: Jacobs “is considering plans to move a portion of its corporate functions from its Pasadena, Calif., location to Dallas later this year, pending a successful real estate process and final approvals for state and local economic development investment.”

...In many ways, Texas offers a better business climate than California, with fewer regulations, touted by its governor on trips to our state aimed at poaching employers. California politicians ignore the trend at their and our peril, and need to work harder to ensure we stay a business-friendly state.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinion/20160623/with-jacobs-engineering-move-pasadena-must-double-down (http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinion/20160623/with-jacobs-engineering-move-pasadena-must-double-down)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on November 21, 2016, 11:12:47 AM
...or taxes and business climate...

Jacobs doesn’t manufacture or worry about a high minimum wage. High-ranking executives make up most of those moving, and a key draw to them in Texas is its lack of a state income tax, which California is unlikely to emulate. Jacobs won’t say why the HQ is moving; its only response to an inquiry is: Jacobs “is considering plans to move a portion of its corporate functions from its Pasadena, Calif., location to Dallas later this year, pending a successful real estate process and final approvals for state and local economic development investment.”

...In many ways, Texas offers a better business climate than California, with fewer regulations, touted by its governor on trips to our state aimed at poaching employers. California politicians ignore the trend at their and our peril, and need to work harder to ensure we stay a business-friendly state.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinion/20160623/with-jacobs-engineering-move-pasadena-must-double-down (http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinion/20160623/with-jacobs-engineering-move-pasadena-must-double-down)

LOL. Why did you skip that one sentence in between?

But every such move is for its own reasons, and a simple “too much red tape” analysis would be wrong here.

It also follows with:

But new CEO Steven Demetriou noted California is an expensive place to live. A huge part of Jacobs’ business now is petroleum-related, and Texas is oil country.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 21, 2016, 12:35:12 PM
Because those are tertiary not the "key" reason
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 29, 2016, 02:26:13 PM
So this is why I paid eight dollars for a gallon of milk today. Thank you Jerry Brown this makes as much sense is the crazy train

California regulates cow farts


Despite strong opposition from farmers, Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation in September that for the first time regulates heat-trapping gases from livestock operations and landfills.

Cattle and other farm animals are major sources of methane, a greenhouse gas many times more potent than carbon dioxide as a heat-trapping gas. Methane is released when they belch, pass gas and make manure.

"If we can reduce emissions of methane, we can really help to slow global warming," said Ryan McCarthy, a science adviser for the California Air Resources Board, which is drawing up rules to implement the new law

http://www.fox5ny.com/news/220448846-story (http://www.fox5ny.com/news/220448846-story)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 29, 2016, 02:40:16 PM
Ahhh good old moonbeam.  What an idiot...can we please impeach him? 

On a slightly related story, I went to COTA last year to track one of my cars and met some very friendly fellow car nuts like me.  We went out to dinner in Austin and I had the best meat I've ever had in my life which I told them.  One of the guys says to me..."The meat tastes better here in Texas than it does in California because there aren't any liberal cows in Texas."  I couldn't stop laughing after I heard that. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Homer_Simpson on November 29, 2016, 03:26:02 PM
Ahhh good old moonbeam.  What an idiot...can we please impeach him? 

On a slightly related story, I went to COTA last year to track one of my cars and met some very friendly fellow car nuts like me.  We went out to dinner in Austin and I had the best meat I've ever had in my life which I told them.  One of the guys says to me..."The meat tastes better here in Texas than it does in California because there aren't any liberal cows in Texas."  I couldn't stop laughing after I heard that.

 :o
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 29, 2016, 05:17:18 PM
Unfortunately, we can't impeach him. Dems hold a super majority in both houses. Believe it or not Governor Moonbeam is the most fiscally conservative and is actually stopping them from spending more money. we are doomed!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 29, 2016, 06:25:41 PM
Unfortunately, we can't impeach him. Dems hold a super majority in both houses. Believe it or not Governor Moonbeam is the most fiscally conservative and is actually stopping them from spending more money. we are doomed!

He's the most fiscally conservative Democrat?  Oh man, now that is scary...I'm sure those jokers would love raising pensions across the board and slip the bill to Joe taxpayer. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 05, 2016, 12:44:21 PM
Maybe morekaos will like this news:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/tax-737245-california-credit.html

Quote
Yamaha Corp. of America, the Buena Park subsidiary of the giant Japanese musical instrument and audiovisual equipment maker, agreed to remain in California, rather than move to Texas or Tennessee, after the state granted it a $3 million tax break last month.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 05, 2016, 01:00:09 PM
Maybe morekaos will like this news:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/tax-737245-california-credit.html

Quote
Yamaha Corp. of America, the Buena Park subsidiary of the giant Japanese musical instrument and audiovisual equipment maker, agreed to remain in California, rather than move to Texas or Tennessee, after the state granted it a $3 million tax break last month.

Maybe I should apply for that tax credit otherwise I'll threaten to take my real estate talents to Las Vegas.  haha
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Compressed-Village on December 05, 2016, 02:40:54 PM
The era of CORPORATE WELFARE is well and alive. I am going to jump onboard.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 06, 2016, 07:24:53 AM
Maybe morekaos will like this news:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/tax-737245-california-credit.html

Quote
Yamaha Corp. of America, the Buena Park subsidiary of the giant Japanese musical instrument and audiovisual equipment maker, agreed to remain in California, rather than move to Texas or Tennessee, after the state granted it a $3 million tax break last month.

I do...at least try to keep them here.  Baby steps.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 06, 2016, 09:15:32 AM
The carrot and not the stick....

The blue state depression

People are leaving the Hillary-supporting states in droves
When I say the blue states are in a depression, I don’t mean the collective funk they are in because they lost the election to Donald Trump.
I’m talking about an economic depression in the blue states that went for Hillary. Here is an amazing statistic. Of the 10 blue states that Hillary Clinton won by the largest percentage margins — California, Massachusetts, Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Illinois, Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Connecticut — every single one of them lost domestic migration (excluding immigration) over the last 10 years (2004-14). Nearly 2.75 million more Americans left California and New York than entered these states.
They are the loser states. They are all progressive. High taxes rates. High welfare benefits. Heavy regulation. Environmental extremism. Super minimum wages. Most outlaw energy drilling. The whole left-wing playbook is on display in the Hillary states. And people are leaving in droves. Day after day, they are being bled to death. So much for liberalism creating a worker’s paradise.
Now let’s look at the 10 states that had the largest percentage vote for Donald Trump. Everyone of them — Wyoming, West Virginia, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Dakota, and Idaho — was a net population gainer.
This is part and parcel of one of the greatest internal migration waves in American history as blue states especially in the northeast are getting clobbered by their low tax, smaller government rivals in the south, southeast and mountain regions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/4/the-blue-state-depression/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/4/the-blue-state-depression/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 06, 2016, 11:04:17 PM
The era of CORPORATE WELFARE is well and alive. I am going to jump onboard.

Crony capitalism?

 ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 11, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
Tijuana or Los Angeles?



http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404 (http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404)

Trump Inspires Effort to Legalize L.A. Street Vendors

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 11, 2016, 09:58:43 AM
Tijuana or Los Angeles?



http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404 (http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404)

Trump Inspires Effort to Legalize L.A. Street Vendors


You mean the vendors that cook and sell food from a shopping cart. (Don't get me wrong not all do, but man they need to crack down for health safety)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: zubs on December 12, 2016, 10:06:13 AM
If you're buying food cooked on top of a shopping cart, I think you're well aware of the implications.  However I do understand that drunk ass people coming out of clubs at 2am arn't making the best dietary decisions.

Especially when Pinks has a line 3 rows deep.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 10:09:30 AM
Tijuana or Los Angeles?



http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404 (http://www.laweekly.com/news/trump-inspires-effort-to-legalize-la-street-vendors-7643404)

Trump Inspires Effort to Legalize L.A. Street Vendors


You mean the vendors that cook and sell food from a shopping cart. (Don't get me wrong not all do, but man they need to crack down for health safety)

This has been in the works for a while already and is not really Trump inspired (although the desire to antagonize him might finally get this passed). Street vendors are ubiquitous in LA already and they might as well legalize and regulate.

That's the best way to get a great fruit salad in the city anyways ...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 10:47:16 AM
The point here is that Cali is de-voluting into a third world country, except at Elisium (silicon valley)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 12, 2016, 10:52:19 AM
The point here is that Cali is de-voluting into a third world country, except at Elisium (silicon valley)

It's so true.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 10:57:38 AM
And as much as I admire the entrepreneurial spirit of these people I question the quality and quantity of their small business' ability to contribute overall to the Cali economic powerhouse.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 11:00:15 AM
LOL, you guys must not travel much (or maybe only to Tijuana). In many large cities in the US (9 out of 10 of the largest allow it - guess which one doesn't) and all over the developed world there are legal street vendors.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 12, 2016, 11:02:46 AM
LOL, you guys must not travel much (or maybe only to Tijuana). In many large cities in the US (9 out of 10 of the largest allow it - guess which one doesn't) and all over the developed world there are legal street vendors.

Key word is legal
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 11:11:46 AM
LOL, you guys must not travel much (or maybe only to Tijuana). In many large cities in the US (9 out of 10 of the largest allow it - guess which one doesn't) and all over the developed world there are legal street vendors.

Key word is legal

LOL. You first clutch your pearls at the prospect of legalizing street vendors and make it sound akin to devolving into a third world country and now you argue that the one thing differentiating LA from the rest is that it is not legal.

¿No comprende inglés?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 11:23:45 AM
In the context of this thread, legal or not, replacing Jacobs Engineering jobs with legal street vendors is not a very even steven trade...no?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 11:37:54 AM
In the context of this thread, legal or not, replacing Jacobs Engineering jobs with legal street vendors is not a very even steven trade...no?

Only in your alternate reality where you can equate the two.



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 11:44:31 AM
It is an extreme comparison used to make a point. The ratio of quality jobs created (in Elisium) vs. the jobs we are discussing here (in LA) is growing further and further apart as companies flee the state for friendlier states and we are left with cheap fruit salad on every corner.  Not a good trade off.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
It is an extreme comparison used to make a point. The ratio of quality jobs created (in Elisium) vs. the jobs we are discussing here (in LA) is growing further and further apart as companies flee the state for friendlier states and we are left with cheap fruit salad on every corner.  Not a good trade off.

So essentially a strawman argument. At least you admit it.



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 12:32:58 PM
Not when our politicians prioritze legalizing street vendors over trying to keep Fortune 500 companies from fleeing our state. The trend is not our friend on this one.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 02:30:26 PM
Not when our politicians prioritze legalizing street vendors over trying to keep Fortune 500 companies from fleeing our state. The trend is not our friend on this one.

Well, you can make that argument about virtually anything. Why are we wasting money on space exploration when there are children starving in the conutry? It shows a very simplistic, sequential grasp of how things work.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 02:49:06 PM
Occam's razor, The simplest answer is often times the actual truth
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on December 12, 2016, 03:15:28 PM
Occam's razor, The simplest answer is often times the actual truth

LOL. That's not even what it means.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 12, 2016, 04:05:33 PM
The point here is that Cali is de-voluting into a third world country, except at Elisium (silicon valley)

I got a kick out of that, where do you Silicone Beach...Elisium 2.0?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Happiness on December 12, 2016, 04:12:54 PM
And as much as I admire the entrepreneurial spirit of these people I question the quality and quantity of their small business' ability to contribute overall to the Cali economic powerhouse.
According to the proponents, legalizing street vendors is not about economics, the urgency is fear of Trump. They need to decriminalize street vending quickly before Trump takes office where a misdemeanor conviction for street vending could lead to deportation.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 12, 2016, 05:11:53 PM
Occam's razor, The simplest answer is often times the actual truth

LOL. That's not even what it means.

 Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 12, 2016, 05:56:21 PM
If you're buying food cooked on top of a shopping cart, I think you're well aware of the implications.  However I do understand that drunk ass people coming out of clubs at 2am arn't making the best dietary decisions.

Especially when Pinks has a line 3 rows deep.

Picture from November 2013, check out the cart

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/nov/06/local/la-me-ln-los-angeles-street-vendors-city-council-20131106



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 17, 2016, 10:35:57 AM
Maybe morekaos will like this news:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/tax-737245-california-credit.html

Quote
Yamaha Corp. of America, the Buena Park subsidiary of the giant Japanese musical instrument and audiovisual equipment maker, agreed to remain in California, rather than move to Texas or Tennessee, after the state granted it a $3 million tax break last month.

I do...at least try to keep them here.  Baby steps.

This is small compared to the amount saved, if a company moves to a state with no state income tax.

Here are the Savings moving out of state: (assumptions move to a no income tax state, these are all hypotheticals and don't be mad at me because you or your comany can't make or get the deals that I mentioned)
- no state income tax (this alone is a Huge! Big Time Savings)
- lower compensation due to low cost of living
- rent/leasing cheaper, it should be cheaper
- to add a cherry on top, the xyz state and or xyz city might add additional money (just looking at the past companies that moved out of California)

I can't believe you guys fell for this article, with out doing an analysis.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 27, 2016, 09:46:49 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/economy/2016/12/06/farmer-bros-moved-california-texas-cut-millions-costs-reinvent

Farmer Bros, Co. (coffee maker) moved from Torrance to Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 24, 2017, 06:01:02 PM
I am gonna repost this from another thread because of its relevance to this topic.... Apple (a Cali company with significant influence on Foxcon)  will not even consider us as a state for its factory. I wonder why. 

http://www.mcall.com/business/manufacturing/mc-pennsylvania-foxconn-display-plant-20170123-story.html

Pennsylvania is the leading contender for the new 30,000 to 50,000 employee Foxconn plant to make Apple products in the US.  So far, all of the jobs Trump has brought back from overseas has gone to states like Michigan and Pennsylvania, traditionally Democratic states that HRC assumed was hers but instead switched sides and went Trump in 2016.  Reward perhaps?  My guess is that the companies heeding Trump's call to bring jobs back won't be providing those jobs in rainbow land California, New York, and Illinois.


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on January 24, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Just imagine if California cut the business tax rate, RE will go through the roof and business will come here versus leaving.


I am gonna repost this from another thread because of its relevance to this topic.... Apple (a Cali company with significant influence on Foxcon)  will not even consider us as a state for its factory. I wonder why. 

http://www.mcall.com/business/manufacturing/mc-pennsylvania-foxconn-display-plant-20170123-story.html

Pennsylvania is the leading contender for the new 30,000 to 50,000 employee Foxconn plant to make Apple products in the US.  So far, all of the jobs Trump has brought back from overseas has gone to states like Michigan and Pennsylvania, traditionally Democratic states that HRC assumed was hers but instead switched sides and went Trump in 2016.  Reward perhaps?  My guess is that the companies heeding Trump's call to bring jobs back won't be providing those jobs in rainbow land California, New York, and Illinois.


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 25, 2017, 09:28:19 AM
Just imagine if California cut the business tax rate, RE will go through the roof and business will come here versus leaving.


I am gonna repost this from another thread because of its relevance to this topic.... Apple (a Cali company with significant influence on Foxcon)  will not even consider us as a state for its factory. I wonder why. 

http://www.mcall.com/business/manufacturing/mc-pennsylvania-foxconn-display-plant-20170123-story.html

Pennsylvania is the leading contender for the new 30,000 to 50,000 employee Foxconn plant to make Apple products in the US.  So far, all of the jobs Trump has brought back from overseas has gone to states like Michigan and Pennsylvania, traditionally Democratic states that HRC assumed was hers but instead switched sides and went Trump in 2016.  Reward perhaps?  My guess is that the companies heeding Trump's call to bring jobs back won't be providing those jobs in rainbow land California, New York, and Illinois.



Thats not gonna happen....idiots!!

Jerry Brown delivers anti-Trump manifesto

In his State of the State speech, the California governor issues a scathing rebuke of the new president.

SACRAMENTO — The governor of the nation’s largest state delivered a pugilistic rebuke of Donald Trump on Tuesday during his State of the State address, presaging years of bitter conflict between Washington and the state that rejected him by a landslide margin.
 
In promising to confront Trump on issues ranging from immigration to health care and the environment, Gov. Jerry Brown further entrenched California as an outpost of resistance, setting the tone for four years of politics in this heavily Democratic state.
 
“This morning, it’s hard for me to keep my thoughts just on California,” Brown said. “We’ve seen the bald assertion of ‘alternative facts,’ whatever those are. We’ve heard the blatant attacks on science. Familiar signposts of our democracy — truth, civility, working together — have been obscured or even swept aside.”
 
For a fourth-term governor who long ago abandoned his own presidential ambition, Brown’s defiant speech signaled an eagerness to collide with Trump on a national stage, casting California as “beacon of hope to the rest of the world.”

http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/jerry-brown-warring-with-donald-trump-back-on-national-stage-108988 (http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/jerry-brown-warring-with-donald-trump-back-on-national-stage-108988)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on January 25, 2017, 09:49:35 AM
Just imagine if California cut the business tax rate, RE will go through the roof and business will come here versus leaving.


I am gonna repost this from another thread because of its relevance to this topic.... Apple (a Cali company with significant influence on Foxcon)  will not even consider us as a state for its factory. I wonder why. 

http://www.mcall.com/business/manufacturing/mc-pennsylvania-foxconn-display-plant-20170123-story.html

Pennsylvania is the leading contender for the new 30,000 to 50,000 employee Foxconn plant to make Apple products in the US.  So far, all of the jobs Trump has brought back from overseas has gone to states like Michigan and Pennsylvania, traditionally Democratic states that HRC assumed was hers but instead switched sides and went Trump in 2016.  Reward perhaps?  My guess is that the companies heeding Trump's call to bring jobs back won't be providing those jobs in rainbow land California, New York, and Illinois.



Thats not gonna happen....idiots!!

Jerry Brown delivers anti-Trump manifesto

In his State of the State speech, the California governor issues a scathing rebuke of the new president.

SACRAMENTO — The governor of the nation’s largest state delivered a pugilistic rebuke of Donald Trump on Tuesday during his State of the State address, presaging years of bitter conflict between Washington and the state that rejected him by a landslide margin.
 
In promising to confront Trump on issues ranging from immigration to health care and the environment, Gov. Jerry Brown further entrenched California as an outpost of resistance, setting the tone for four years of politics in this heavily Democratic state.
 
“This morning, it’s hard for me to keep my thoughts just on California,” Brown said. “We’ve seen the bald assertion of ‘alternative facts,’ whatever those are. We’ve heard the blatant attacks on science. Familiar signposts of our democracy — truth, civility, working together — have been obscured or even swept aside.”
 
For a fourth-term governor who long ago abandoned his own presidential ambition, Brown’s defiant speech signaled an eagerness to collide with Trump on a national stage, casting California as “beacon of hope to the rest of the world.”

http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/jerry-brown-warring-with-donald-trump-back-on-national-stage-108988 (http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/jerry-brown-warring-with-donald-trump-back-on-national-stage-108988)

California is to Trump as Texas was to Obama.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 01, 2017, 08:30:02 PM
Goodbye Nestles

Nestle USA to move headquarters from Glendale to Virginia, affecting 1,200 jobs

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-nestle-headquarters-20170201-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-nestle-headquarters-20170201-story.html)



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on February 02, 2017, 01:19:16 AM
I have 2 friends who work there.  I hope this works out for them, whether they stay or go.  Sure, keep your job, but your spouse doesn't, and your kids really don't want to be uprooted either. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 02, 2017, 10:22:42 AM
They wanted out of here so bad that they never even gave Glendale a heads up. The rush for the door leaves little room for negotiation or they know that at this point nothing offered would be enough to stay... very sad for our state.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 23, 2017, 08:23:16 AM
We reap what we sow...

L.A. County has traded high-paying jobs for low-paying ones

During the same 10-year period, 35,000 jobs were lost in finance, accounting, architecture and engineering in the area. Those jobs paid an average wage of $85,000 in 2007, according to the economic group. The organization did not have 2016 wage comparisons for some of those jobs.

Meanwhile, the county added 92,000 jobs in food service and 49,000 jobs in in-home support services.

The average wage for food service jobs last year was $20,000, while the average wage for in-home support service workers was $14,000, according to the report.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-county-jobs-20170221-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-county-jobs-20170221-story.html)

Don't think we got the good end of this particular transaction.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 23, 2017, 08:31:28 AM
So let's use some Labor Statistics "facts":

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LASST060000000000006?amp%253bdata_tool=XGtable&output_view=data&include_graphs=true

(https://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LASST060000000000006_2006_2016_all_period_M12_data_labor%2Bforce.gif)

Now your crayon might point out there is downturn at the end of the graph for the end of 2016 however, year over year, Cali's labor force has gone up... even from 2014 when this thread was started.

I doubt that graph is ever going to go bell curve anytime in the near (or far) future.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on February 23, 2017, 08:46:06 AM
Add another one to the list.

"AutoAlert in Irvine will shift its headquarters to Kansas City, Mo., this spring, lured by $9 million in tax incentives in exchange to grow the software company."

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/autoalert-744132-company-county.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 23, 2017, 08:58:32 AM
That article does not argue that jobs have not been created, they point out that the jobs being created are lame.  Perfect time for a counter announcement IHO. Surely there is a counter to this loss of AutoAlert.  Any major employer would love the good press of announcing job creation in Cali. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 23, 2017, 10:12:46 AM
I don't deal with the minutia... as I've commented time and time again in this thread.

Overall, jobs are increasing in Cali... and I think if you Google it, job growth in the last 1-2 years in Cali is at a higher percentage than Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 23, 2017, 10:24:23 AM
I'm not arguing that jobs have not been created...they have here and in Texas.  What that article points out specifically is the quality and value of those jobs.  Quality jobs earning $80,000 are being replaced by crappy jobs earning $20,000.00. Just creating a job is useless if that job can't even pay the bills.  I'll bet the $80,000.00 job in Texas goes quite a ways further than in LA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 23, 2017, 11:29:55 AM
Well if you are going to bring up wages, I believe they are also higher in CA over TX.

Check out my previous links, Labor Board is facty facts... not alt facts.

And as for "quality"... I'd rather have a job in CA where the weather is better than hot as Africa TX.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on February 24, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
Well if you are going to bring up wages, I believe they are also higher in CA over TX.

Check out my previous links, Labor Board is facty facts... not alt facts.

And as for "quality"... I'd rather have a job in CA where the weather is better than hot as Africa TX.

That's why you pretty much trade off no state income tax for a monster AC bill. :P
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on February 24, 2017, 02:58:18 PM
Well if you are going to bring up wages, I believe they are also higher in CA over TX.

Check out my previous links, Labor Board is facty facts... not alt facts.

And as for "quality"... I'd rather have a job in CA where the weather is better than hot as Africa TX.

That's why you pretty much trade off no state income tax for a monster AC bill. :P

Solar panels be a solution?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on February 24, 2017, 03:03:53 PM
Well if you are going to bring up wages, I believe they are also higher in CA over TX.

Check out my previous links, Labor Board is facty facts... not alt facts.

And as for "quality"... I'd rather have a job in CA where the weather is better than hot as Africa TX.

That's why you pretty much trade off no state income tax for a monster AC bill. :P

Solar panels be a solution?

No net metering in TX.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 02, 2017, 07:51:22 AM
Can't wait for the Super majority in control in Sacramento to pass these new massive tax increases to pay for crap they should already be paying for with their regular budget.  More new taxes will attract many new businesses to our wonderful state and lessen the burden on those already here who are eyeing the doors...don't ya think?

CA Democrats want higher fees and taxes for state infrastructure

“Senate Bill 1 by state Sen. Jim Beall, D-San Jose, calls for a phased-in 12-cent tax increase on gasoline, increased vehicle-registration fees as well as an annual $100 road maintenance fee for zero-emission cars,” Courthouse News reported. “The proposal would raise California’s gas tax for the first time since 1994, and reallocate $500 million in heavy-vehicle fees to road maintenance instead of paying down existing transportation bond debt.”

“Democrats say raising the gas tax is the best way to make up tax revenues lost by Californians buying electric vehicles. The state’s fuel levy is currently 27 cents per gallon. With California facing an estimated $59 billion highway-maintenance shortfall over the next decade, Beall says the tax and vehicle registration fee hikes will fix the state’s roads and come with the added benefit of new jobs.”

In other words for those of you who bought electric cars to save money on gas...your government wants you to pay taxes anyway since you don't pay your "fair share" in gas taxes now.  So nice.

http://calwatchdog.com/2016/12/14/ca-democrats-want-higher-fees-taxes-state-infrastructure/ (http://calwatchdog.com/2016/12/14/ca-democrats-want-higher-fees-taxes-state-infrastructure/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on March 02, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
Few things are dumber than the reasons for the proposed increase in gas taxes.  A)  Why should gasoline cars pay more to cover electrics?  B)  Why do we need to raise gas taxes over 40% just to cover the <3% of cars that are electric?  Or is this just a money grab? (duh).

My wife owns a Leaf and I'm ok with paying a tax to support roads.  It's only fair.  But a flat tax isn't fair to people who don't drive much.  We only put about 4000 miles a year on the Leaf.  If we used gas and got 40mpg, we would only pay $29 per year in gas taxes.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on March 02, 2017, 02:10:36 PM
Can't wait for the Super majority in control in Sacramento to pass these new massive tax increases to pay for crap they should already be paying for with their regular budget.  More new taxes will attract many new businesses to our wonderful state and lessen the burden on those already here who are eyeing the doors...don't ya think?

CA Democrats want higher fees and taxes for state infrastructure

“Senate Bill 1 by state Sen. Jim Beall, D-San Jose, calls for a phased-in 12-cent tax increase on gasoline, increased vehicle-registration fees as well as an annual $100 road maintenance fee for zero-emission cars,” Courthouse News reported. “The proposal would raise California’s gas tax for the first time since 1994, and reallocate $500 million in heavy-vehicle fees to road maintenance instead of paying down existing transportation bond debt.”

“Democrats say raising the gas tax is the best way to make up tax revenues lost by Californians buying electric vehicles. The state’s fuel levy is currently 27 cents per gallon. With California facing an estimated $59 billion highway-maintenance shortfall over the next decade, Beall says the tax and vehicle registration fee hikes will fix the state’s roads and come with the added benefit of new jobs.”

In other words for those of you who bought electric cars to save money on gas...your government wants you to pay taxes anyway since you don't pay your "fair share" in gas taxes now.  So nice.

http://calwatchdog.com/2016/12/14/ca-democrats-want-higher-fees-taxes-state-infrastructure/ (http://calwatchdog.com/2016/12/14/ca-democrats-want-higher-fees-taxes-state-infrastructure/)

If they used the money that they collected for the roads on the roads, we wouldn't need to raise those taxes.  Unfortunately that money keeps getting reallocated elsewhere.  Schwarzenegger and also the AAA have both campaigned that taxes collected to pay for infrastructure actually pay for infrastructure.    Voters didn't seem to care, though.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 02, 2017, 03:09:48 PM
If they used the money that they collected for the roads on the roads, we wouldn't need to raise those taxes.  Unfortunately that money keeps getting reallocated elsewhere.  Schwarzenegger and also the AAA have both campaigned that taxes collected to pay for infrastructure actually pay for infrastructure.    Voters didn't seem to care, though.

Do you have a breakdown on how the gasoline tax is spent? I'm curious ...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 02, 2017, 07:50:22 PM
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices/eab/fundchrt_files/Transportation_Funding_in_CA_2014.pdf (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/tpp/offices/eab/fundchrt_files/Transportation_Funding_in_CA_2014.pdf)

Transportation Funding in California
2014
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 03, 2017, 11:24:49 AM
It doesn't seem that the gas tax is used for anything other than transportation related stuff. The part of the tax is going into the general fund seems in order to pay off a transportation bond. What % is actually blown on non transportation stuff?

I was trying to read about recent opposition to gas taxes from AAA but could only find articles where they are advocating for a higher federal rate.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 20, 2017, 01:13:43 PM
Here it comes...

California bill aims to pay for infrastructure through gas tax, fees

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (KCRA) —
California’s Senate Bill 1, which is aimed at improving the state’s transportation infrastructure, easily cleared the state Senate’s Governance and Finance Committee by a 5-1 vote Wednesday.

Increase the gas tax by 12 cents per gallon over three years, with a 6-cent increase in the first year followed by two years of 3-cent increases

Increase the diesel fuel excise tax by 20 cents and increase the diesel sales tax by 4 percent

Increase vehicle registration fees by $38

Require drivers of zero-emission vehicles to pay an annual $100 fee toward maintenance and repair

http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371 (http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 20, 2017, 02:02:44 PM
Here it comes...

California bill aims to pay for infrastructure through gas tax, fees

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (KCRA) —
California’s Senate Bill 1, which is aimed at improving the state’s transportation infrastructure, easily cleared the state Senate’s Governance and Finance Committee by a 5-1 vote Wednesday.

Increase the gas tax by 12 cents per gallon over three years, with a 6-cent increase in the first year followed by two years of 3-cent increases

Increase the diesel fuel excise tax by 20 cents and increase the diesel sales tax by 4 percent

Increase vehicle registration fees by $38

Require drivers of zero-emission vehicles to pay an annual $100 fee toward maintenance and repair

http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371 (http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371)

I'd be OK with that. I would probably curse the delays that would ensue when they fix up the 405 or 5.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 20, 2017, 07:48:14 PM
Here it comes...

California bill aims to pay for infrastructure through gas tax, fees

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (KCRA) —
California’s Senate Bill 1, which is aimed at improving the state’s transportation infrastructure, easily cleared the state Senate’s Governance and Finance Committee by a 5-1 vote Wednesday.

Increase the gas tax by 12 cents per gallon over three years, with a 6-cent increase in the first year followed by two years of 3-cent increases

Increase the diesel fuel excise tax by 20 cents and increase the diesel sales tax by 4 percent

Increase vehicle registration fees by $38

Require drivers of zero-emission vehicles to pay an annual $100 fee toward maintenance and repair

http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371 (http://www.kcra.com/article/california-bill-aims-to-pay-for-infrastructure-through-gas-tax-fees/9110371)

I'd be OK with that. I would probably curse the delays that would ensue when they fix up the 405 or 5.


LOL, you still think they're going to use the tax for what they said it was for?...  ROTFLMAO.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on March 21, 2017, 06:59:13 AM

Perhaps the State of California could harness the energy created as Carl Karcher goes into high rotation spinning in his grave.

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/californias-carls-jr-says-so-long-golden-state/ (http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/californias-carls-jr-says-so-long-golden-state/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 21, 2017, 08:06:43 AM
Just pile on the taxes. The rich don't pay their fair share.... if they leave!!! That would be a 14% effective state income tax.  There is a breaking point.

Lawmaker wants tuition-free college in California by taxing millionaires

A California lawmaker wants to tax millionaires to provide a free education for residents at the state’s public colleges and universities – the second proposal put forth in as many weeks to address the soaring cost of a higher education.

Assembly Bill 1356, by Assemblywoman Susan Talamantes Eggman, would add a 1 percent tax on annual California household incomes of $1 million or more, to be placed in a financial aid fund. The tax would generate an estimated $2.2 billion annually, according to the Stockton Democrat, which could be combined with existing aid programs to cover the cost of tuition and fees for in-state students at the University of California, California State University and California community colleges.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article139685303.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article139685303.html#storylink=cpy)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Loco_local on March 23, 2017, 07:41:33 AM
No wonder auto manufacturers are leaving California. I wonder if these are the good jobs Trump is talking about

Inside Alabama’s Auto Jobs Boom: Cheap Wages, Little Training, Crushed Limbs
The South’s manufacturing renaissance comes with a heavy price.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-auto-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 23, 2017, 10:13:55 AM
Alabama is doing very well thank you...

Alabama jobs rising in manufacturing, bioscience fields

Figures show that employment in professional, scientific and technical services has been growing, with 20,000 jobs in the broad professional sector added in Alabama between January 2011 and July 2016, according to Ijaz.
Some technology jobs are growing. Over the past 10 years, computer system design jobs in Alabama climbed from 16,100 to 23,100, according to data from Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. That’s an increase of 43 percent.
Employment in bioscience fields in Alabama climbed 7 percent between 2012 and 2014, according to a report by the Biotechnology Innovation Organization (BIO) and TEConomy Partners LLC. Growth was significantly higher in medical devices and equipment (26.8 percent) and drugs and pharmaceuticals (26.3 percent).
Auto is not the only manufacturing segment that’s seen job growth. Figures from the St. Louis Fed show that employment in plastics and rubber manufacturing has risen by 2,600 jobs in the past five years, a gain of nearly 20 percent.

In another positive sign for Alabama’s job market, July’s state unemployment rate dropped to 5.7 percent for the best showing since June 2008. The preliminary, seasonally adjusted number is down from June’s rate of 6 percent and below the 6.1 percent rate recorded in July 2015.

“We continue to see decreases in Alabama’s unemployment rate, and increases in both of our employment measures over the year, which is a testament to the strong economic development efforts we have prioritized,” Governor Robert Bentley said in an announcement.

“We haven’t seen an unemployment rate this low in eight years. Not only did the rate decrease since last month, there are also nearly 28,000 more people working this year than there were last year,” he added.

Over the year, wage and salary employment increased 10,000, with gains in the leisure and hospitality sector (+3,300), the trade, transportation, and utilities sector (+3,200), the financial activities sector (+3,100), and the manufacturing sector (+3,000), among others.

JOB HORSEPOWER

A clear indication of the job-creation strength of Alabama’s auto industry can be seen in economic research supplied by the St. Louis Fed. Auto manufacturing is a key target sector in Accelerate Alabama, the state’s strategic economic development growth plan.

In the past five years, employment at motor vehicle parts manufacturers in the state has nearly doubled, from 14,400 in July 2011 to more than 26,000 in July 2016, according to St. Louis Fed data.

http://www.madeinalabama.com/2016/09/alabama_jobs/ (http://www.madeinalabama.com/2016/09/alabama_jobs/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 23, 2017, 10:24:11 AM
Where are all the glowing articles about the incredible California manufacturing Renaissance? I thought the Bullet Train was our great shot in the arm.

'New-shoring' in Alabama generates manufacturing jobs, grabs global attention

Everybody loves a comeback story and "new-shoring" is paving the way for resurgence of "Made in the U.S.A." in an impactful and sustainable way.

American manufacturing is experiencing a rebirth; consumers are showing newfound patriotism in their shopping habits and shifting their attention back to American-made products. The manufacturing industry has enjoyed a steady climb gaining more than 800,000 jobs since its lowest in 2009. In addition to consumer demand stimulating growth, businesses are discovering the hidden costs of outsourcing.

With a strong manufacturing legacy, Alabama is no exception to this explosive growth, adding nearly 5,300 jobs this year. Alabama is home to over 5,000 manufacturers who employ nearly 300,000 in the state, with 13 percent of the state holding manufacturing jobs primarily in the motor vehicle and/or parts, food, metal and aerospace industries.
 
Whether it's automobile manufacturers producing millions of Alabama-made vehicles, lumber and aircraft companies building sawmills and aircrafts or healthcare technology companies designing new medical devices, news surrounding expansions, new factories or plants and job growth continues to consistently dominate headlines.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/new-shoring_in_alabama_generat.html (http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/new-shoring_in_alabama_generat.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Loco_local on March 23, 2017, 10:39:48 AM
Quote
Figures show that employment in professional, scientific and technical services has been growing, with 20,000 jobs in the broad professional sector added in Alabama between January 2011 and July 2016, according to Ijaz.


Interesting.  I was told the only jobs created during Obama's presidency were temporary, part-time and service related.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 23, 2017, 10:52:56 AM
Quote
Figures show that employment in professional, scientific and technical services has been growing, with 20,000 jobs in the broad professional sector added in Alabama between January 2011 and July 2016, according to Ijaz.


Interesting.  I was told the only jobs created during Obama's presidency were temporary, part-time and service related.

Again with the parabolic rhetoric...of course some were...now more will be, just not here in California.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on March 23, 2017, 11:03:29 AM
Quote
Figures show that employment in professional, scientific and technical services has been growing, with 20,000 jobs in the broad professional sector added in Alabama between January 2011 and July 2016, according to Ijaz.


Interesting.  I was told the only jobs created during Obama's presidency were temporary, part-time and service related.

Again with the parabolic rhetoric...of course some were...now more will be, just not here in California.

Hyperbolic
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 23, 2017, 11:17:30 AM
Didn't think you'd get the joke
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 10, 2017, 01:09:02 PM
When tech can't afford to live in Elysium...who can?

San Francisco has gotten so expensive, some tech companies can't convince employees to move there

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/san-francisco-cost-of-living-pricing-out-tech-companies-workers.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/san-francisco-cost-of-living-pricing-out-tech-companies-workers.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 10, 2017, 01:11:09 PM
The wise leadership of Governor Moonbeam.

What Californians Could Build Using the $64 Billion Bullet Train Budget


California’s High-Speed Rail project fails to justify itself according to any set of rational criteria. Its ridership projections are absurdly inflated, its environmental benefits are overstated if not actually net detriments, and its cost, its staggering cost, $64 billion by the latest estimate, overwhelms anyone with even a remote sense of financial proportions. To make this final point clear, here is an assortment of California infrastructure projects that could be paid for with a $64 billion budget.

If these projects were built, instead of the bullet train, Californians would have abundant, cheap electricity, abundant fresh water, and upgraded roads and freeways capable of handling all the traffic a surging economy could possibly dish out.

http://californiapolicycenter.org/what-californians-could-build-using-the-64-billion-bullet-train-budget/ (http://californiapolicycenter.org/what-californians-could-build-using-the-64-billion-bullet-train-budget/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: jmoney74 on April 10, 2017, 01:45:45 PM
The wise leadership of Governor Moonbeam.

What Californians Could Build Using the $64 Billion Bullet Train Budget


California’s High-Speed Rail project fails to justify itself according to any set of rational criteria. Its ridership projections are absurdly inflated, its environmental benefits are overstated if not actually net detriments, and its cost, its staggering cost, $64 billion by the latest estimate, overwhelms anyone with even a remote sense of financial proportions. To make this final point clear, here is an assortment of California infrastructure projects that could be paid for with a $64 billion budget.

If these projects were built, instead of the bullet train, Californians would have abundant, cheap electricity, abundant fresh water, and upgraded roads and freeways capable of handling all the traffic a surging economy could possibly dish out.

http://californiapolicycenter.org/what-californians-could-build-using-the-64-billion-bullet-train-budget/ (http://californiapolicycenter.org/what-californians-could-build-using-the-64-billion-bullet-train-budget/)

Can we just make a new socal state.. separating from LA!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 08, 2017, 09:30:54 AM
"Aerojet Rocketdyne will move or eliminate 1,100 of the 1,400 positions from its facilities in Rancho Cordova to its Huntsville, Alabama, location by the end of 2019, the company announced Monday.

Aerojet Rocketdyne Holdings Inc. (NYSE: AJRD) spokesman Glenn Mahone said around 300 positions will remain in the Sacramento region, and those positions will mainly handle administrative functions such as human resources, finance, legal and supply chain management. "We will still be doing work there until the end of 2019," he said.

The announcement marks the end of an era for the once locally based rocket maker. The company has had a major presence in the Sacramento region since the early 1950s, and at its height, during the space race in the 1960s, employed around 20,000 people, Mahone said. The Sacramento region site was the largest of Aerojet's 15 locations nationwide. It is still the third-largest manufacturer and the fourth-largest technology company in the Sacramento region, and the 24th largest employer in Sacramento County."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/04/10/aerojet-to-relocate-or-eliminate-1-100-positions.html

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 08, 2017, 09:34:18 AM
"MELBOURNE, Fla. (AP) — Lockheed Martin Corp. plans to move about 300 ballistic missile program jobs from California to Florida's Space Coast over the next two years.

Lockheed Martin Space Systems Co. spokesman Matt Kramer told Florida Today (http://on.flatoday.com/2q7rXeV ) that the employees moving to Brevard County will work on testing and maintenance for the Navy's Trident II D-5 Fleet Ballistic Missile."

Source: http://herald-review.com/business/lockheed-martin-is-moving-ballistic-missile-jobs-to-florida/article_abc9a875-4c5c-5d3d-bbfa-fc21cc149b6f.html


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 08, 2017, 09:41:11 AM
"Oakland semiconductor packaging manufacturer moving HQ to Phoenix, opening factory, hiring 100

RJR Technologies Inc., an Oakland, California-based semiconductor packaging company, is moving its headquarters to the Valley and opening a second manufacturing factory in south Phoenix."

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/04/24/exclusive-oakland-semiconductor-packaging.html



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 08, 2017, 10:36:16 AM
The exit paths are becoming worn.  I still want to see the headlines of companies moving headquarters to Cali.  I think you would have to go to the 70's archives to find any.  The problems are obvious, as are the fixes...

Biz & Tech
Tech pipeline to Texas: Tax money, people flow out of Bay Area

Despite being in the heart of Silicon Valley, Vasili Triant couldn’t keep his midsize cloud-computing company, LiveOps Cloud, staffed. Jobs would open, but not enough qualified applicants would apply. Those hired often wouldn’t last a year before being poached by bigger firms that promised higher salaries and more lavish perks.

In September, after more than a decade in the Bay Area, the company relocated its headquarters to a suburb of Austin, Texas — a move growing common among its peers.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Tech-pipeline-to-Texas-Tax-money-employees-flow-6791524.php (http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Tech-pipeline-to-Texas-Tax-money-employees-flow-6791524.php)

Misguided State Policies Lead To More Companies Leaving California

The list of businesses abandoning California for more hospitable business environments reads like a roll call of top companies. Toyota is in the process of leaving Torrance and will complete the move of its U.S. headquarters to Dallas by the end of 2017. Also having left for Dallas is Jacobs Engineering Group, $6.3 billion firm formerly based in Pasadena that has more than 230 offices across the world, employs 60,000 and generates $12 billion in annual revenue.
Other companies that have left, or are pricing moving van rates, are Nestle (leaving Glendale to reboot its U.S. headquarters in Rosslyn, Va.), Nissan North America (left for Nashville a decade before Carl’s Jr. did), Jamba Juice (traded San Francisco for Frisco, Texas), Occidental Petroleum (prefers Houston over Westwood for its headquarters), Numira Biosciences (Irvine, no – Salt Lake City, yes) and Omnitracs, a software firm (goodbye San Diego, hello Dallas).
From 2007 through 2015, as many as 9,000 companies have left California, according to Joe Vranich, president of Spectrum Location Solutions in Irvine. And no one should wonder why. Just by simply putting California behind them, these companies are saving 20 percent to 35 percent a year in operating costs, Vranich says.

http://www.foxandhoundsdaily.com/2017/04/misguided-state-policies-lead-companies-leaving-california/ (http://www.foxandhoundsdaily.com/2017/04/misguided-state-policies-lead-companies-leaving-california/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 08, 2017, 11:28:57 AM
It could be companies already in California expanding or creating more jobs.

GM adding 1100 jobs for driver automation:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2017/apr/0413-cruise.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 08, 2017, 11:37:22 AM
The gist of every statistic I've seen is that even companies that start here choose to expand elsewhere. (Apple and Tesla).  I would like to see a mature company that chooses to move their HQ into California because its such a great place to do business.  I think you would be hard pressed to find one, Our companies make headlines in other states when they choose to move there.  Where are ours?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 09, 2017, 12:15:51 PM
Calif is overcrowded as it is.

Again, there is nothing to fear... Irvine and most high tech areas in Cali are expanding and growing.

For all those jobs moving out, there are plenty here... can't even build enough houses and apartment complexes in Irvine either.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 09, 2017, 12:34:35 PM
The problem is the tax base not the population.  Our government wants more and more (gas tax) and there are fewer and fewer taxpayers so they just take more and more from those who are left who can pay.  This is not a good trend.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on May 09, 2017, 12:47:33 PM
Calif is overcrowded as it is.

Again, there is nothing to fear... Irvine and most high tech areas in Cali are expanding and growing.

For all those jobs moving out, there are plenty here... can't even build enough houses and apartment complexes in Irvine either.

Exactly. Rather than tax benefits, for most workers moving out of state the largest gain in disposable income is due to lower housing costs.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Ready2Downsize on May 09, 2017, 05:08:21 PM
The problem is the tax base not the population.  Our government wants more and more (gas tax) and there are fewer and fewer taxpayers so they just take more and more from those who are left who can pay.  This is not a good trend.

It's not really a question of if but when an upside down pyramid will collapse.

You can't just make the bottom pay more and more and keep piling more layers on the top of the bottom layer.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 09, 2017, 06:09:59 PM
The problem is the tax base not the population.  Our government wants more and more (gas tax) and there are fewer and fewer taxpayers so they just take more and more from those who are left who can pay.  This is not a good trend.

The NIMBYs up in Sactown need to keep funding the pensions of the gov't workers somehow.  How about you CUT the gov't budget instead of taxing us to death, novel concept, eh?                                                         
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: newtoirvine2017 on May 09, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
The problem is the tax base not the population.  Our government wants more and more (gas tax) and there are fewer and fewer taxpayers so they just take more and more from those who are left who can pay.  This is not a good trend.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/07/whos-leaving-orange-county-whos-coming-7-trends-you-must-know/

Says otherwise... it seems only people moving out is the lower income and higher income moving in... which seems like a good trend? the narrative of people leaving California is completely overblown. It's not just orange county either...

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/07/california-the-state-where-people-dont-move/

California in general had the lowest exits to population ratio of any state other than Michigan. Net migration was -10,700 in a State of 39 million....
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2017, 10:02:00 PM
Maybe we have hit a turning point, maybe it was a tax too far.

Enraged Californians rebel against Gov. Brown’s massive tax hike on cars and gas

In California, a state known for its love of driving, high-priced gasoline and history of tax revolts, a rebellion is brewing against Gov. Jerry Brown ’s massive gas-and-car tax increase.

In the two weeks since the Democrat signed Senate Bill 1, opponents have launched an initiative drive to repeal the $52.4 billion transportation package as well as a recall campaign to eject a vulnerable Democratic state senator who is seen as the deciding vote for the law.

“The voters are enraged,” said Assemblyman Travis Allen , the Orange County Republican behind the repeal initiative, which is pegged to the November 2018 ballot.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/11/californians-rebel-against-gas-car-tax-hike/ (http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/11/californians-rebel-against-gas-car-tax-hike/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 18, 2017, 07:03:23 PM
Resist!!

https://spectator.org/revolt-of-the-california-freeloaders/ (https://spectator.org/revolt-of-the-california-freeloaders/)

Jerry Brown’s insult energizes recall of tax-hiking Democratic senator.

When normal people talk about “freeloaders,” they usually are referring to the assorted welfare dependents, scammers and, yes, public employees who game the system to do as little productive work as possible and receive as many taxpayer-supplied benefits as they can muster. In California, freeloading is an art form, but the term is largely verboten. We don’t want to be accused of insensitivity or other retrograde attitudes, after all.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 18, 2017, 09:27:57 PM
Moonbeam calling us taxpayers who work hard to fund those ridiculous pensions freeloaders?  Oh man, that guy has some nerve. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on May 19, 2017, 10:17:53 AM
Maybe we have hit a turning point, maybe it was a tax too far.

Enraged Californians rebel against Gov. Brown’s massive tax hike on cars and gas


Don't mess with car taxes in CA (anything else is fair game). Didn't they learn anything from Gray Davis?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 23, 2017, 08:30:24 AM
Who even comes up with this? You can't make this up.  Let's tax ideas on what to tax next...we can double up taxes on tax ideas...yahhhhh thats the ticket...

California plans for collecting taxes on spaceflight

The earthly convention of paying taxes may soon extend into outer space, if California regulators have anything to say about it.


The state’s Franchise Tax Board is seeking public comment on its proposal for computing taxes on commercial space transportation companies.

The private spaceflight industry remains small, despite grand ambitions to shuttle everything from tourists to 3-D printers into space. But the board says it created the rules to give entrepreneurs the confidence that once their businesses really start to take off, California’s tax code will be ready to handle them.

The rules are designed to apply to any company operating in California that generates at least half the money it takes in from “space transportation” — defined as the movement of people or property 62 miles above the surface of the Earth. That’s the internationally recognized line that separates our planet from the rest of space. It would apply to companies that use California as a launchpad, not California companies launching from other states, like Texas or Florida.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/California-plans-for-collecting-taxes-on-11119631.php (http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/California-plans-for-collecting-taxes-on-11119631.php)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on May 23, 2017, 10:02:28 AM
Who even comes up with this? You can't make this up.  Let's tax ideas on what to tax next...we can double up taxes on tax ideas...yahhhhh thats the ticket...

California plans for collecting taxes on spaceflight


Seems that those paying the taxes (SpaceX and ULA) are backing it. If things pick up from where we are, rocket traffic out of Venderberg will some day be like semi trucks on the 710.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 23, 2017, 11:24:56 AM
Wrong, the message is simple...

"But the board says it created the rules to give entrepreneurs the confidence that once their businesses really start to take off, California’s tax code will be ready to handle them."

In plainer language...If you come up with a business, take all the risks ,  we at the Franchise Tax board stand ready to tax you at the moment you become profitable. Therefore, just set up your launch facilities in another state with confidence  ...like Texas (Space Ex).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 03, 2017, 07:53:38 AM
Half a step ahead of us

Connecticut's Tax Comeuppance; With the rich tapped out, the state may resort to Puerto Rico bonds.

https://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=4620&mn=1676&pt=msg&mid=17222380 (https://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=4620&mn=1676&pt=msg&mid=17222380)

The Aetna insurance company has been based in Hartford, Conn., since 1853, but this week it said it is looking to move to another state. Governor Dannel Malloy has pledged to match other states' financial incentives, but taxpayer money can't buy fiscal certainty and a less destructive business climate. That's the real problem in Connecticut, which saw GE vamoose to Boston last year and which even Mr. Malloy now seems to recognize.

"As a huge Connecticut employer and a pillar of the insurance industry, it must be infuriating to feel like you must fight your home state policymakers who seem blind to the future," Mr. Malloy wrote in a May 15 letter to Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini. "The lack of respect afforded Aetna as an important and innovative economic engine of Connecticut bewilders me."

Now he tells us. Gov. Malloy has spent two terms treating business as a bottomless well of cash to redistribute to public unions. Now that his state is losing millionaires and businesses, he has seen the light. But the price of his dereliction will be steep.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 09:38:54 AM
All these companies leaving Cali, so how are we leading the job growth?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/05/us/california-today-how-california-helps-the-us-economy.html

Quote
Over the last five years, California has outperformed the nation in just about every important economic metric. Yes, the state is big, accounting for about 12 percent of the nation’s population. But its share of economic growth has been even bigger.

California accounted for 17 percent of job growth in the United States from 2012 to 2016, and a quarter of the growth in gross domestic product.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 05, 2017, 09:56:17 AM
Cause the jobs we are creating suck....

Only four of California’s eleven major industry sectors added jobs last month. Leisure and hospitality added 7,400 jobs; followed by construction, expanding by 7,200 jobs; education gained 6,800 jobs; and logging and mining picked up 200 jobs. The biggest job losses were in professional and business services, which were down by 17,500 jobs; followed by trade, transportation and utilities, which fell by 5,900 jobs.

All but three of California’s major industry sectors saw job gains in the last year, led by educational and health services, up 69,700 jobs; followed by leisure and hospitality, up 51,000 jobs; and government, up by 44,400 jobs.

April’s biggest job loser was the high-paying information sector, heavily domiciled in Silicon Valley. Information lost 4,200 jobs in the last month, and suffered 9,800 job losses in the last year.

The CompTIA information trade association reports that earnings in the sector average $105,400, almost twice the state’s $53,400 average. That appears to indicate that California is gaining low-paid service sector jobs and losing high-paid tech sector jobs.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/ (http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 09:57:35 AM
Jobs are jobs... everyone has to eat.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 05, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
A job is not a job when the high paying job moves to Texas and the new burger flipper is making 1/4 of his income, you rot the tax base from the inside out, one job at a time. Jobs are not jobs but numbers are numbers. These numbers are trending down where it counts, income.  I'll take 1 of those high tech, high earners over the 4 burger flippers any day.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 05, 2017, 10:33:02 AM
If this California Single Payer scheme is approved, you won't find many high paying jobs remaining in California. Roughly 2/3rds of every dollar earned will go to Fed/State/Sales/Gas/Etc taxes and at that level, Atlas will shrug.

But hey, we got "free healthcare"!

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Chief Burger Flipper, Soylent Corporation.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
I value my cheeseburger just as much as my iPhone.

This is much ado about nothing.

#BugerFlipperLivesMatter
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 05, 2017, 10:56:13 AM
But the guy flipping your cheeseburger does not pay any taxes.  If the High tech guy leaves town who will cover the bill?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 11:00:57 AM
But the guy flipping your cheeseburger does not pay any taxes.  If the High tech guy leaves town who will cover the bill?

The sky is falling!

So do you really think every high tech job is going to leave? Or most? Or half?

This is not Georgia... Cali's economics are strong and will remain so... location, location, location.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on June 05, 2017, 11:05:50 AM
But the guy flipping your cheeseburger does not pay any taxes.  If the High tech guy leaves town who will cover the bill?

Soon part of those jobs (fast food) will be gone also. (Automation)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 05, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
But the guy flipping your cheeseburger does not pay any taxes.  If the High tech guy leaves town who will cover the bill?

The sky is falling!

So do you really think every high tech job is going to leave? Or most? Or half?

This is not Georgia... Cali's economics are strong and will remain so... location, location, location.

Not at all...Why is everything taken to a hyperbolic extreme when making an argument?  The sky is falling, but it is happening over time.  The trend is slow and arduous but it is unmistakable. It can be arrested if we just recognize that the pot we are in is starting to get warmer and may eventually boil.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Ready2Downsize on June 05, 2017, 11:53:48 AM
If this California Single Payer scheme is approved, you won't find many high paying jobs remaining in California. Roughly 2/3rds of every dollar earned will go to Fed/State/Sales/Gas/Etc taxes and at that level, Atlas will shrug.

But hey, we got "free healthcare"!

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Chief Burger Flipper, Soylent Corporation.

I question whether a 15% tax on those working (and added sales tax, additional tax to business) would be enough to pay for that universal care. Supposedly it includes dental, preventative, rx, etc. My hubby pays more than that in premiums for only two of us thru work and we still have a good copay for docs, costs for rx, and significant oop before our deductible is even met and he makes a pretty good salary. What about all the people who make less? They will pay less into the system. Can the tech workers cover everyone?

Used to rent out our TR house out. First renters were from England here on biz. They had "free" health care in England but they had an additional policy because the "free" one meant long lines and cruddy docs. That's what happens when u try to limit payments to doctors and let everyone go to see them for anything they want all for "free".

I doubt it will pass, but if it does hubby will quit his job. We don't need the income. We need health care. We'll pay decent docs the cash pay price which is what I've started doing anyway because despite paying our premiums every month the copay is more than their cash pay bill.

Personally I think single payer, all of us get the same care without means testing is the way to go but I don't think visits should be free. Not sure how we can afford that with the deficit so stinking high.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 05, 2017, 01:12:21 PM
I think it will pass as there are enough soft heads in Sacramento to believe SP, like communism, will work because "it just wasn't tried in the right way everywhere else".

That said, the easiest way to kill off SP is to put everyone on a VA medical plan for 6 months. If you like the way VA does medical services, wait until the government has 100% of the healthcare industry under control.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on June 05, 2017, 01:21:19 PM
If this California Single Payer scheme is approved, you won't find many high paying jobs remaining in California. Roughly 2/3rds of every dollar earned will go to Fed/State/Sales/Gas/Etc taxes and at that level, Atlas will shrug.

But hey, we got "free healthcare"!

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Chief Burger Flipper, Soylent Corporation.
Here's some metrics.

If it is passed, I will pretty much be forced to move my corporation to another state, or close up shop and work for a bigger company.

Either of those things could put me better off than I am today, or worse.  Whatever the case, it will cause a big shakeup.

I deal with a lot of small and medium sized businesses.  I don't see how any of them wont be hurt by this.

I have a client that pays about $1 million in payroll each year.  The 15% tax will add a $150,000 annual cost to the company.   Most likely scenario is that 3 employees get cut if this passes, and that all new hiring will happen out of state.

P.S. I think we will be better off as a society with single health payer.  I favor it.  I just don't favor forcing business to cover it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on June 05, 2017, 01:34:15 PM
The sky is falling!

So do you really think every high tech job is going to leave? Or most? Or half?

This is not Georgia... Cali's economics are strong and will remain so... location, location, location.
Sorry, but this reeks of bury your head in the sand ignorance. 

Many of these "high tech" jobs are already being outsourced.  They don't have to happen here.  Other cities in other states are also becoming tech hubs.

And no, every tech job isn't going to leave.  Comments like that are simple minded logical fallacies.  You should stop doing that as it reflects poorly on your responses.

It probably wont affect bigger companies much as it will replace their healthcare costs.  It will probably be a bit higher, however, manageable for many.  It does make California less appealing.  If enough things pile on, you will see more of an exodus. 

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on June 05, 2017, 01:40:23 PM
My friend works in Hollywood with mostly set designs.  He has worked on a lot of cool shows, and is currently employeed on a very popular sci fi show.

Anyhow...  His last job was working on Supergirl.  They filmed it out here.  The show is very liberal preachy.  Ironically, they moved from LA to Vancouver to save on costs.  They didn't just leave the state, but they left the country.  The jobs down here were lost and everyone had to go find new employment. 

Do as we say, not as we do. 

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Ready2Downsize on June 05, 2017, 01:46:57 PM
My friend works in Hollywood with mostly set designs.  He has worked on a lot of cool shows, and is currently employeed on a very popular sci fi show.

Anyhow...  His last job was working on Supergirl.  They filmed it out here.  The show is very liberal preachy.  Ironically, they moved from LA to Vancouver to save on costs.  They didn't just leave the state, but they left the country.  The jobs down here were lost and everyone had to go find new employment. 

Do as we say, not as we do.

Entertainment industry goes where they get the tax breaks. This I know from my hubby who worked at Warner Brothers for over 10 years and before that Sony as a contractor. His group tracked movie and tv data per show/movie world wide.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on June 05, 2017, 02:01:34 PM
Entertainment industry goes where they get the tax breaks.
Yup, but then people in the industry always seem to tell us that doesn't happen when talking politics.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 02:30:48 PM
But the guy flipping your cheeseburger does not pay any taxes.  If the High tech guy leaves town who will cover the bill?

The sky is falling!

So do you really think every high tech job is going to leave? Or most? Or half?

This is not Georgia... Cali's economics are strong and will remain so... location, location, location.

Not at all...Why is everything taken to a hyperbolic extreme when making an argument?  The sky is falling, but it is happening over time.  The trend is slow and arduous but it is unmistakable. It can be arrested if we just recognize that the pot we are in is starting to get warmer and may eventually boil.

The point is if it's slow and arduous then it can be addressed and reversed... there is no point of no return.

This is just companies making business decisions and for every one that feels they need to cut costs, there are others willing to make it work in California.

#BoyWhoCriedCaliforniaIsInRuins
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 05, 2017, 02:32:42 PM
The sky is falling!

So do you really think every high tech job is going to leave? Or most? Or half?

This is not Georgia... Cali's economics are strong and will remain so... location, location, location.
Sorry, but this reeks of bury your head in the sand ignorance. 

Many of these "high tech" jobs are already being outsourced.  They don't have to happen here.  Other cities in other states are also becoming tech hubs.

And no, every tech job isn't going to leave.  Comments like that are simple minded logical fallacies.  You should stop doing that as it reflects poorly on your responses.

It probably wont affect bigger companies much as it will replace their healthcare costs.  It will probably be a bit higher, however, manageable for many.  It does make California less appealing.  If enough things pile on, you will see more of an exodus. 



Call it ignorance, call it simple minded, call it reflecting poorly... I call it realistic and optimistic.

Just like Irvine housing, California economy is too important to fail.

:)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 05, 2017, 05:30:25 PM
I do love hearing how we don't like businesses to pay for SPHC. Businesses don't pay taxes - the consumer of their product does. If Apple (an Irish company btw) is hit with a 15% tax increase, my guess is that the iJebus 9 will probably cost $1,150 when it rolls out. If people won't buy a $1,150 phone, then 2-300 Engineers will pay with their jobs - not AAPL

Single Payer is another name for Wealth Redistribution. Those who refuse to pay "their fair share"... will be watching from their front porch in Austin as the SS Titanic Sacramento founders on the shoals of Single Payer.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paydawg on June 05, 2017, 06:12:42 PM
Cause the jobs we are creating suck....

Only four of California’s eleven major industry sectors added jobs last month. Leisure and hospitality added 7,400 jobs; followed by construction, expanding by 7,200 jobs; education gained 6,800 jobs; and logging and mining picked up 200 jobs. The biggest job losses were in professional and business services, which were down by 17,500 jobs; followed by trade, transportation and utilities, which fell by 5,900 jobs.

All but three of California’s major industry sectors saw job gains in the last year, led by educational and health services, up 69,700 jobs; followed by leisure and hospitality, up 51,000 jobs; and government, up by 44,400 jobs.

April’s biggest job loser was the high-paying information sector, heavily domiciled in Silicon Valley. Information lost 4,200 jobs in the last month, and suffered 9,800 job losses in the last year.

The CompTIA information trade association reports that earnings in the sector average $105,400, almost twice the state’s $53,400 average. That appears to indicate that California is gaining low-paid service sector jobs and losing high-paid tech sector jobs.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/ (http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/)

How about Orange County?  From what I've heard, Orange County bucks this trend. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on June 06, 2017, 12:07:31 AM
I do love hearing how we don't like businesses to pay for SPHC. Businesses don't pay taxes - the consumer of their product does. If Apple (an Irish company btw) is hit with a 15% tax increase, my guess is that the iJebus 9 will probably cost $1,150 when it rolls out. If people won't buy a $1,150 phone, then 2-300 Engineers will pay with their jobs - not AAPL
It sometimes works that way, but not always.  At the lower level, such as fast food, all prices will go up so yes it goes directly to the consumer.  At the higher levels, though, it's harder.  If I raise my rates 15%, it becomes even more difficult to compete against lower prices in other states or countries.  This would hit me pretty hard to the point where it would no longer be feasible to keep my business open in California.

Single Payer is another name for Wealth Redistribution.
I don't think of it as that.  I am rather fond of the idea of single payer.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 06, 2017, 07:56:15 AM
Cause the jobs we are creating suck....

Only four of California’s eleven major industry sectors added jobs last month. Leisure and hospitality added 7,400 jobs; followed by construction, expanding by 7,200 jobs; education gained 6,800 jobs; and logging and mining picked up 200 jobs. The biggest job losses were in professional and business services, which were down by 17,500 jobs; followed by trade, transportation and utilities, which fell by 5,900 jobs.

All but three of California’s major industry sectors saw job gains in the last year, led by educational and health services, up 69,700 jobs; followed by leisure and hospitality, up 51,000 jobs; and government, up by 44,400 jobs.

April’s biggest job loser was the high-paying information sector, heavily domiciled in Silicon Valley. Information lost 4,200 jobs in the last month, and suffered 9,800 job losses in the last year.

The CompTIA information trade association reports that earnings in the sector average $105,400, almost twice the state’s $53,400 average. That appears to indicate that California is gaining low-paid service sector jobs and losing high-paid tech sector jobs.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/ (http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/05/22/california-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-in-16-years/)

How about Orange County?  From what I've heard, Orange County bucks this trend. 

Even if that is true (and I kindda doubt it) this is a statewide problem that would eventually drag the pockets of hope into the black hole anyway as they would be the last outposts of tax revenue left to pillage.  Even Elisium would be consumed by the fire.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 06, 2017, 09:45:58 AM
Spotiehoo, I'm not trying to troll here, but there's strong cognitive dissonance going on here.

On the one hand -

"I don't think of it as that.  I am rather fond of the idea of single payer."

On the other hand:

"This would hit me pretty hard to the point where it would no longer be feasible to keep my business open in California"


Someone has to pay for SP.

It's not "Corporations", otherwise your 401k values will plummet as stock prices tank.
It's not buyers or sellers of Real Estate, otherwise prices will go down.
It's not "The Rich", because they will flee the State - and if you have more than $100 in your account, you are "The Rich".
It's not "Big Pharma" as they pass through taxes and fees, or they too flee the State.
It's not a sales tax hike because as noted, your company would find it no longer feasible to survive.
It's not a payroll tax, because hiring would stop.
It's not energy companies, as the gasoline tax is already going up.
It's not dividends paid by California companies - as they will re-locate to Texas. Just look at Connecticut as an example
It's not insurance companies, as they will be out of the picture in CA
It's not Hospitals or Doctors because if you reduce their income, your quality of care will also be reduced.

Who then will pay for someone else's healthcare here in California if you won't/can't?

That said, when I become Emperor of Limitless Power and Unquestioned Authority over the United States (ELPUAUSA) if there was a national SP enacted, I'd likely finance it with a .05 cent per share trading transaction fee (buy or sell 100 shares of Alphabet, I get $5.00) which boils the frog at a much lower temperature than what California is considering. It can't be done in California since we do not have a stock exchange but could be done nationally.  That's roughly about $100b per year of potential funding. Also, I'd exclude healthcare for issues that are derived from sky diving, professional sports, etc, like that doofus who was jumping off of Laguna Beach landmarks into the ocean. He missed judged a distance in 2016 and broke both of his feet with a bad landing. SP should cover all but one specific pre-existing condition: putting oneself intentionally in harms way.

My .02c

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 13, 2017, 08:14:19 AM
This has profound implications to this topic....

Best-Run States Are Low-Tax Republican, Worst-Run Are High-Tax Democratic, Study Finds

Best-Run States Are Low-Tax Republican, Worst-Run Are High-Tax Democratic, Study Finds

Several states, including Republican states, have decided to raise taxes this year to cover budget shortfalls. But a new study suggests that the states might find themselves in worse financial shape after the money starts rolling in.

According to the latest ranking of states by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, the most fiscally sound states in the nation are all low-tax, GOP strongholds, while the 10 least-solvent states are almost all high-tax and heavily Democratic.

Of the 25 most-solvent states, all but four are solidly Republican. Of the bottom 25 states, all but five are solidly Democratic.

The most fiscally sound states also tend to have the lowest tax burdens, according to a separate analysis by the Tax Foundation, which measures state and local tax burdens as a percentage of state income.

The average tax burden among the 10 most fiscally sound states is 8.5%, according to the Tax Foundation's 2017 report. The average tax burden among the 10 least fiscally sound states: 10.2%.

Here's another way to look at it: Of the 15 least-solvent states, 10 are among the 15 states with the highest tax burdens

http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/best-run-states-are-all-solidly-republican-worst-run-mostly-democratic-study-finds/ (http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/best-run-states-are-all-solidly-republican-worst-run-mostly-democratic-study-finds/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on July 13, 2017, 08:24:18 AM
"Toyota opened its new North American headquarters in Texas today, three years after announcing the move.

The headquarters was built on 100 acres across Plano in the northern part of Texas. Since announcing the headquarters, Toyota has spent approximately $1 billion on the new facility and moving thousands of employees. "

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-opens-dollar1-billion-headquarters-in-texas/ar-BBDTPeC
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 13, 2017, 09:08:03 AM
"Toyota opened its new North American headquarters in Texas today, three years after announcing the move.

The headquarters was built on 100 acres across Plano in the northern part of Texas. Since announcing the headquarters, Toyota has spent approximately $1 billion on the new facility and moving thousands of employees. "

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-opens-dollar1-billion-headquarters-in-texas/ar-BBDTPeC

That facility would have cost $5 Billion, still be in the EIS stage and be 3 times over budget already if they had tried to build it here.  What a shame
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: zubs on July 13, 2017, 10:43:28 AM
Is that what happened with the Apple space ship?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 13, 2017, 12:25:04 PM
Is that what happened with the Apple space ship?

Pretty much...

New Apple campus $2 billion over budget, report says

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04/business/la-fi-tn-new-apple-campus-2-billion-over-budget-report-says-20130404 (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04/business/la-fi-tn-new-apple-campus-2-billion-over-budget-report-says-20130404)

But when you don't care, you don't care...

Price is no object at Apple’s new Spaceship campus

Apple's new headquarters building in Cupertino, California--its official name is Apple Park; unofficially it's "the spaceship"--costs an astonishing $5 billion. That makes it the third most expensive modern building at the time of completion, not just in the US but in the world.

http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/price-is-no-object-at-apples-new-spaceship-campus-4745128/ (http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/price-is-no-object-at-apples-new-spaceship-campus-4745128/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 13, 2017, 07:11:02 PM
Is that what happened with the Apple space ship?

Pretty much...

New Apple campus $2 billion over budget, report says

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04/business/la-fi-tn-new-apple-campus-2-billion-over-budget-report-says-20130404 (http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/04/business/la-fi-tn-new-apple-campus-2-billion-over-budget-report-says-20130404)

But when you don't care, you don't care...

Price is no object at Apple’s new Spaceship campus

Apple's new headquarters building in Cupertino, California--its official name is Apple Park; unofficially it's "the spaceship"--costs an astonishing $5 billion. That makes it the third most expensive modern building at the time of completion, not just in the US but in the world.

http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/price-is-no-object-at-apples-new-spaceship-campus-4745128/ (http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/price-is-no-object-at-apples-new-spaceship-campus-4745128/)

Numbers don't matter in Elysium, a few billion is just a rounding error over there.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 14, 2017, 07:29:01 AM
That's why the iPhone 8 is going to be $1200, they need to pay for the campus. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on July 25, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
A 12 cent tax and now a carbon tax hike of around 60 cents more a gallon to achieve....nothing (.008 degreee drop in temp over 80 years).  That is why "carbon leak" will drive more away...foolish, pointless policy and taxation to no end...marvelous.

California is handling climate change all wrong

But, while Brown should be commended for showing leadership where Trump has not, the truth is that California’s plans for fulfilling the Paris accord and its carbon-cutting commitments will be expensive for the state while achieving slightly more than nothing for the planet.

At the moment, California’s greenhouse gas emissions account for less than 1% of global emissions, and a little less than 7% of U.S. emissions. The state now plans to cut its emissions by the equivalent of 181.5 million tons of carbon dioxide by 2030 — to 40% below its 1990 levels.

Although this is a much bigger cut than California achieved with its 2006 climate change legislation, it’s still nowhere near enough to have a meaningful effect on global warming overall. Even if California succeeds in making the new cuts and sticks to them for the rest of the century, according to calculations using a standard model of the U.N. Climate Panel, they will amount to a difference of .008 degrees Fahrenheit (.0044 degrees Celsius) — a minuscule drop in the bucket of the cuts needed in order to limit total global warming to no more than 2 degrees Celsius, the number climate activists have identified as a dangerous tipping point.

And there’s a big caveat to this small achievement. When limitations are placed on major emitters in one geographical location, the emitters often move to locations with lighter regulatory regimes, bringing their emissions along with them, in a process known as “carbon leakage.” One study published in the Review of Economics and Statistics found that around 40% of the carbon savings that resulted from the Kyoto Protocol was lost to leakage. Much of the emissions that are cut in California could turn up elsewhere. Indeed, one simulation suggests that practically all of California’s cuts would be lost to carbon leakage.

What’s more, California’s official estimates put the cost of its climate change policy at $13 billion to $22.5 billion a year — and such estimates often prove to be optimistic. The European Union, one of few entities that has attempted cuts of this magnitude, underestimated the cost of its emissions reduction policy by as much as 100%. (Mexico is likely to have underestimated its climate policy costs by even more.) If California can expect to lose a similar percentage of its GDP, the annual cost would come to about $50 billion. With the state’s promises to reduce emissions by 80% before 2050, these costs would go up even more — and have little to no effect on the environment.

Most Californians will feel these costs in the form of higher gasoline and electricity prices. But the real reason carbon cuts are so expensive is they require the economy to shift from low-cost fossil fuels to more pricey, often less efficient green energy. People like to claim that green energy is already competitive. This is far from true. For instance, when solar energy is produced, it is all produced at the same time — when the sun shines. The energy thus floods the market and becomes less valuable. Models show that when solar makes up 15% of the market, the value of its electricity is halved. In California, when solar reaches 30% of the market, its value drops by more than two-thirds.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-lomborg-california-climate-change-paris-accord-cap-and-trade-20170720-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-lomborg-california-climate-change-paris-accord-cap-and-trade-20170720-story.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on August 04, 2017, 10:44:06 AM
Shall we take bets on where this $1.6 billion dollar investment that will yield 4000 jobs is going to land?  I will go all in on "not Cali"!

Toyota and Mazda plan to build $1.6 billion US plant in joint venture

Toyota and Mazda announced plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant in a new joint venture.
A location for the $1.6 billion facility has not yet been picked, but it will have the capacity to build 300,000 vehicles annually while employing 4,000 workers.
The companies hope to open the plant in 2021.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2017, 11:23:09 PM
Shall we take bets on where this $1.6 billion dollar investment that will yield 4000 jobs is going to land?  I will go all in on "not Cali"!

Toyota and Mazda plan to build $1.6 billion US plant in joint venture

Toyota and Mazda announced plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant in a new joint venture.
A location for the $1.6 billion facility has not yet been picked, but it will have the capacity to build 300,000 vehicles annually while employing 4,000 workers.
The companies hope to open the plant in 2021.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html)

East of the rockies in a Red state is my bet...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Panda on August 05, 2017, 05:43:10 PM
Hopefully it is Georgia or Alabama, or somewhere in the south.

Hyundai and Kia has a huge presence in westpoint, ga right in the border of ga and al. Planning to invest $3.1B.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on August 07, 2017, 10:02:04 PM
Shall we take bets on where this $1.6 billion dollar investment that will yield 4000 jobs is going to land?  I will go all in on "not Cali"!

Toyota and Mazda plan to build $1.6 billion US plant in joint venture

Toyota and Mazda announced plans on Friday to build a $1.6 billion U.S assembly plant in a new joint venture.
A location for the $1.6 billion facility has not yet been picked, but it will have the capacity to build 300,000 vehicles annually while employing 4,000 workers.
The companies hope to open the plant in 2021.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/03/toyota-and-mazda-plan-to-build-1-point-6-billion-us-plant-in-joint-venture-sources.html)

East of the rockies in a Red state is my bet...

How big will the tax incentive package be?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on August 08, 2017, 07:36:47 AM
Here is California's incentive offering..."because everyone wants to live and work here!"

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on August 08, 2017, 11:36:52 AM
Well yea, you don't save the world from Climate change by building Camrys.  You do it by making sure rich people can drive a $100,000 car in the carpool lane solo and get a giant kickback from the taxpayers.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 29, 2017, 02:23:52 PM
So another benefit of Cali is no hurricanes... really feel bad for those people in Houston and close by.

But we do get earthquakes, although it seems floods in the Gulf Coast are more frequent.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: peppy on August 29, 2017, 03:16:55 PM
So another benefit of Cali is no hurricanes... really feel bad for those people in Houston and close by.

But we do get earthquakes, although it seems floods in the Gulf Coast are more frequent.

Megafloods are a 200 year event in CA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 07, 2017, 07:55:47 AM
So what are the odds of it landing in the "Golden State"?  I'll tell you....0.

Amazon launches search for a second headquarters in North America

Amazon on Thursday said it plans to open a second company headquarters in North America.
The online retailer is soliciting pitches from cities and states for what it calls HQ2.
Amazon estimates its investments in its Seattle operations from 2010 through 2016 resulted in an additional $38 billion to the city's economy.

The online retailer expects to invest more than $5 billion in construction and grow this second headquarters to include as many as 50,000 high-paying jobs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/amazon-launches-search-for-a-second-headquarters-in-north-america.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/amazon-launches-search-for-a-second-headquarters-in-north-america.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on September 07, 2017, 02:31:43 PM
So what are the odds of it landing in the "Golden State"?  I'll tell you....0.

Amazon launches search for a second headquarters in North America

Amazon on Thursday said it plans to open a second company headquarters in North America.
The online retailer is soliciting pitches from cities and states for what it calls HQ2.
Amazon estimates its investments in its Seattle operations from 2010 through 2016 resulted in an additional $38 billion to the city's economy.

The online retailer expects to invest more than $5 billion in construction and grow this second headquarters to include as many as 50,000 high-paying jobs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/amazon-launches-search-for-a-second-headquarters-in-north-america.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/amazon-launches-search-for-a-second-headquarters-in-north-america.html)
I think the odds are in the low teens, but there's a chance.

It would be nice if they opened it in an area that it's employees can afford to buy houses, rather than an expensive city. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 26, 2017, 08:18:34 PM
Anybody giving odds on who is smothered at the bottom of this list for the sixth year....in a row?

CEOs Rank 2017 Best & Worst States for Business

Texas was ranked No. 1 for the 13th straight year in 2017 by the hundreds of CEOs surveyed by Chief Executive. Florida was No. 2 for the fifth year in a row. Five of the remaining eight top-10 states were the same as in 2011, albeit shuffled a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, California anchored the bottom of the list at No. 50 for the sixth consecutive year, New York wallowed at No. 49 and Illinois listed at No. 48.

https://chiefexecutive.net/2017-best-worst-states/ (https://chiefexecutive.net/2017-best-worst-states/)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 26, 2017, 09:42:12 PM
This is the kind of direction we need to take....but won't

The Michigan Comeback Story

How business-tax reform helped revive the state’s economy.

As Washington begins to debate tax reform in earnest, states can provide instructive policy lessons for better and sometimes worse—see the fiscal crack-ups in Connecticut and Illinois. Michigan, on the other hand, offers a case study in the pro-growth potential of business tax reform.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/09/26/the_michigan_comeback_story_422008.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/09/26/the_michigan_comeback_story_422008.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 18, 2017, 11:51:48 AM
Nice try but dooomed!!

Cities of Long Beach and Huntington Beach Join Forces to Bid on Amazon HQ2: “Amazon Coast: Portal to the World”
Exciting News!

With excellent weather year-round, close proximity to the largest port complex in the nation, three airports, a multitude of transportation services, various housing options, diverse communities, an extraordinary amount of local talent, and three strategically located sites, Huntington Beach and Long Beach (HBLB) have highlighted all the key elements in making HBLB the home of Amazon HQ2 – “Amazon Coast: Portal to the World.” Packaged as a nod to the original beginnings of Amazon, the HBLB coffee table book-style proposal theme of Sand, Sea and Air creates a trifecta that provides stability, balance, and strength.

Three prime sites have been identified by HBLB for the new Amazon headquarters: one in Huntington Beach – “Amazon Sand,” another site along the Long Beach waterfront – “Amazon Sea,” and a third site adjacent to the Long Beach Airport – “Amazon Air.” HBLB stands apart from other competing cities in that the “Amazon Sand” site is already entitled and move-in ready with more than 500,000 square feet of space.

The cities have joined together as both are close in proximity and well exceed the criteria for Amazon HQ2. HBLB offers virtually turnkey sites for phases one and two, a highly-educated work force, a business-friendly environment, a multitude of recreation activities, and an unparalleled quality of life. With the help of our partners such as the Long Beach Convention & Visitors Bureau, Visit HB, and the creative communication team at interTrend, “Amazon Coast” was born.

Long Beach Mayor Dr. Robert Garcia believes “Long Beach has a vibrant downtown on the water, a Metro rail connection to Downtown Los Angeles, an airport, one of the world’s busiest and greenest ports, a great public school system, and the best people and workforce anywhere. I’ve called this beautiful city home for 20 years, and I’m proud that it’s a place where people from all walks of life and every corner of the globe call home. We would love to share our city with Amazon, whose presence would enrich the tapestry of Long Beach."

Huntington Beach Mayor Barbara Delgleize is thrilled about the potential for Amazon to consider HBLB. “If Amazon were to select HBLB, I know having them here would only bring out the best in all of us – a new spark of inspiration for not only the Los Angeles and Orange County regions, but Southern California as a whole. Where else can you go to have so much connectivity and accessibility? And with so many outdoor recreation opportunities and perfect year-round weather, Amazonians will love the SoCal vibe and culture. It’s with great pride that we request that Amazon consider Surf City and Long Beach for its HQ2.”

HBLB plans to deliver its proposal Thursday – as well as a custom made HBLB surfboard. Check out the creative “Amazon Coast” video, featuring a surprise celebrity, in the quest to deliver the final proposal from HBLB to CEO Jeff Bezos. Cameo by HB’s hometown surfer, Brett Simpson. The video is available on Twitch.tv – a subsidiary of Amazon.com. Home to TwitchCon 2017, Long Beach is already poised to promote Amazon’s global brand. Video link: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/183135017
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on October 18, 2017, 12:49:01 PM
Apparently HB/LB didn't get the memo; Amazon is looking for tax breaks and incentives. 

PAY UP or GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 18, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
That ain't gonna happen...fish rots from the head down.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 18, 2017, 02:30:02 PM
Why did they even waste their time? 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on October 20, 2017, 12:10:04 AM
I imagine there would be some headache having to deal with two separate counties as well
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 20, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
Gov. Brown pledges hundreds of millions in incentives for Amazon HQ2 in California

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/18/gov-brown-pledges-hundreds-of-millions-in-incentives-for-amazon-hq2-in-california/

But nothing for Toyota..
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 20, 2017, 08:26:02 AM
Gov. Brown pledges hundreds of millions in incentives for Amazon HQ2 in California

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/18/gov-brown-pledges-hundreds-of-millions-in-incentives-for-amazon-hq2-in-california/

But nothing for Toyota..


Might has well have been nothin...weak showing. He needs the money for the high speed rail debacle.

Christie Backs Newark's Amazon Bid With $7 Billion in Tax Breaks

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is seeking to deploy $7 billion in potential tax credits to lure Amazon.com Inc.’s planned second headquarters to Newark, which has been struggling to stage a broad economic revival since it was devastated by riots in 1967.

The proposal would offset state and city taxes, including an incentive through New Jersey’s Economic Development Authority that could reach $5 billion over 10 years, the governor’s office said Monday in a statement. The remainder of the tax breaks would come from a $1 billion city property tax abatement and a wage tax waiver of $1 billion for employees.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16/christie-backs-newark-s-amazon-bid-with-7-billion-in-tax-breaks (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16/christie-backs-newark-s-amazon-bid-with-7-billion-in-tax-breaks)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 20, 2017, 10:02:26 AM
Gov. Brown pledges hundreds of millions in incentives for Amazon HQ2 in California

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/18/gov-brown-pledges-hundreds-of-millions-in-incentives-for-amazon-hq2-in-california/

But nothing for Toyota..


Might has well have been nothin...weak showing. He needs the money for the high speed rail debacle.

Christie Backs Newark's Amazon Bid With $7 Billion in Tax Breaks

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is seeking to deploy $7 billion in potential tax credits to lure Amazon.com Inc.’s planned second headquarters to Newark, which has been struggling to stage a broad economic revival since it was devastated by riots in 1967.

The proposal would offset state and city taxes, including an incentive through New Jersey’s Economic Development Authority that could reach $5 billion over 10 years, the governor’s office said Monday in a statement. The remainder of the tax breaks would come from a $1 billion city property tax abatement and a wage tax waiver of $1 billion for employees.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16/christie-backs-newark-s-amazon-bid-with-7-billion-in-tax-breaks (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-16/christie-backs-newark-s-amazon-bid-with-7-billion-in-tax-breaks)

I guess bending over is the way to go? Jk
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 20, 2017, 10:04:54 AM
Gotta want it.  Moonbeam knows we don't stand a chance.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 20, 2017, 10:09:55 AM
Part of it has to be location. What if a less desirable location (Alaska, Puerto Rico) offered more? The answer is the highly skilled potential worker would not apply to work there. (Unless you are from there)

* this is a made up scenario
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on October 20, 2017, 10:11:14 AM
I imagine there would be some headache having to deal with two separate counties as well

Not only that, but three separate campuses.  This is just a bizarre proposal.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on October 20, 2017, 07:18:02 PM
Quote
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is seeking to deploy $7 billion in potential tax credits to lure Amazon.com Inc.’s planned second headquarters to Newark, which has been struggling to stage a broad economic revival since it was devastated by riots in 1967.

Struggling because of riots in 1967?  Japan was an economic powerhouse 50 years after getting decimated.  Who writes this crap?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on October 20, 2017, 10:00:23 PM
Amazon has a stock market cap of $500 billion. Why would they care about a few billion in incentives?

The workers they attract will determine if they plateau and fade in a few decades like most big tech (after bezos is gone) or if they’re the exception that can turn into a 1-2 trillion mkt cap co.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 22, 2017, 08:39:01 AM
Part of it has to be location. What if a less desirable location (Alaska, Puerto Rico) offered more? The answer is the highly skilled potential worker would not apply to work there. (Unless you are from there)

* this is a made up scenario


Puerto Rico makes a pitch for Amazon’s HQ2.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-21/blacked-out-puerto-rico-makes-long-shot-pitch-for-amazon-s-hq2
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on October 23, 2017, 03:14:24 PM
Part of it has to be location. What if a less desirable location (Alaska, Puerto Rico) offered more? The answer is the highly skilled potential worker would not apply to work there. (Unless you are from there)

* this is a made up scenario
They might be able to milk H1Bs if they select a less desirable location.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 01, 2017, 07:55:58 PM
This should make more business ‘s want to remain right here in Cali!! In fact why wouldn’t a major shipping or trucking company move here so they can pay more for fuel?  Makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 01, 2017, 08:17:56 PM
How else will CA pay for the roads...errrr pensions?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on November 02, 2017, 09:21:11 AM
I feel bad for those commuting from the Inland Empire.  What a kick in the nuts.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on November 02, 2017, 09:42:49 AM
I feel bad for those commuting from the Inland Empire.  What a kick in the nuts.

People can take the metro link train from the IE to the OC. (But that cost money approximate prices from the metropolitan link website from North Corona to Irvine: $17 rountrip a day, 7 day pass $59.50, monthly pass $238)
 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on November 02, 2017, 12:53:55 PM
Possible Broadcom move back to US if Federal tax plan passes. Who knows if the State will kill it.....

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-tax-cuts-20171102-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-tax-cuts-20171102-story.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 02, 2017, 01:05:19 PM
Grandfathered
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 05, 2017, 09:56:16 PM
This is one of my neighbors. He posted this tonight. He lives in a multi million dollar waterfront property. This tax paying producer is just sick of it, and he’s not alone. I have several clients and associates who are either in the process or seriously considering this. Who will be left?


At 60 years old now and having been a once proud Long Beach, CA guy things have changed. I have aggressively planned, downsized, donated and sold off anything and everything big time this year as my tipping point has finally been reached here in my home town of Long Beach and in the State of California. I am moving out and moving on to places where I can enjoy a new lifestyle free from the insanity that is the City of Long Beach and the State of CA. I am lucky in that I can do this as I am in a place in life where a I can actually do this without disrupting the lives of people close to me. 

 My Local hometown Long Beach city sales tax is 10.25%, now tied for #1 in the USA.  Ridiculous. CA State Income taxes are also off the charts now at 14%. Ridiculous. CA Gasoline taxes have recently been raised astronomically for no reason other than a disguised tactic of pure redistribution of wealth by super majority elites that are in place here in this once great state. Ridiculous. These taxes are onerous and abusive. 

My home local community is overrun now with homeless people with little to nothing being done about it. The local road and street structure and conditions where I live is third rate and embarrassing.

Sanctuary status also being declared by our local city and state governments to others here illegally is not fair to us long time actual contributors to our community.

No regrets, no worries. Just done with the madness and moving on.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: paperboyNC on November 05, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
At 60 years old now and having been a once proud Long Beach, CA guy things have changed. I have aggressively planned, downsized, donated and sold off anything and everything big time this year as my tipping point has finally been reached here in my home town of Long Beach and in the State of California. I am moving out and moving on to places where I can enjoy a new lifestyle free from the insanity that is the City of Long Beach and the State of CA. I am lucky in that I can do this as I am in a place in life where a I can actually do this without disrupting the lives of people close to me. 

 My Local hometown Long Beach city sales tax is 10.25%, now tied for #1 in the USA.  Ridiculous. CA State Income taxes are also off the charts now at 14%. Ridiculous. CA Gasoline taxes have recently been raised astronomically for no reason other than a disguised tactic of pure redistribution of wealth by super majority elites that are in place here in this once great state. Ridiculous. These taxes are onerous and abusive. 

My home local community is overrun now with homeless people with little to nothing being done about it. The local road and street structure and conditions where I live is third rate and embarrassing.

Sanctuary status also being declared by our local city and state governments to others here illegally is not fair to us long time actual contributors to our community.

No regrets, no worries. Just done with the madness and moving on.
[/quote]

It's no secret that California has a net migration to other states. Our population keeps growing for two reasons:

A) Strong net migration from other countries (many with enough cash to buy Irvine home for cash)
B) More births than deaths

If we want to lower the cost of living here, we'd need to somehow stop all of the foreigners with loads of cash pricing out the locals.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Loco_local on November 06, 2017, 12:37:28 PM
Sounds like a win-win for the 60 year old to be moving out of state since he sounds like he's not working anymore. Costs of treating old age illnesses is expensive. Hopefully he will move to a place with good doctors.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 06, 2017, 12:50:31 PM
Sounds like a win-win for the 60 year old to be moving out of state since he sounds like he's not working anymore. Costs of treating old age illnesses is expensive. Hopefully he will move to a place with good doctors.

Wrong, That's a business owning, property tax paying, income tax paying, sales tax paying contributor who has his own insurance that HE pays for and who doesn't take social security or medicare and contributes to numerous charities and schools. Thats not a win for anyone.  He is replaced by what?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Loco_local on November 06, 2017, 02:20:57 PM
Sounds like a win-win for the 60 year old to be moving out of state since he sounds like he's not working anymore. Costs of treating old age illnesses is expensive. Hopefully he will move to a place with good doctors.

Wrong, That's a business owning, property tax paying, income tax paying, sales tax paying contributor who has his own insurance that HE pays for and who doesn't take social security or medicare and contributes to numerous charities and schools. Thats not a win for anyone.  He is replaced by what?
Well since he is not yet of ss or Medicare age I would hope he doesn't take it (assuming he is as rich as you implt).
Property tax on a million dollar house has no meaning in CA thanks to prop 13.  He could be paying $2,000 or $20,000. 
The old people I know don't spend $$ even if they can. So sales tax they generate is minuscule.
If he is a business owner who creates jobs, I assume the business will be sold and the jobs will stay.
He will be replaced by young working, income generating, job creating people, hopefully.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on November 06, 2017, 02:37:12 PM
So Cali is homeless and immigrant friendly but not business friendly?

That's not so bad. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on November 06, 2017, 02:46:27 PM
I’m with morekaos’ client. Going the fuck back to Mexico. Fuck this place. I’ll live a happier life in Mexico bribing government officials.

Adios amigos!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 06, 2017, 02:47:08 PM
This is what is replacing my neighbor

Growing homeless camps contrast with West Coast tech wealth


San Diego now scrubs its sidewalks with bleach to counter a deadly hepatitis A outbreak. In Anaheim, 400 people sleep along a bike path in the shadow of Angel Stadium. Organizers in Portland lit incense at an outdoor food festival to cover up the stench of urine in a parking lot where vendors set up shop.

http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Homeless-explosion-on-West-Coast-pushing-cities-12334291.php?cmpid=email-mobile (http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Homeless-explosion-on-West-Coast-pushing-cities-12334291.php?cmpid=email-mobile)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on November 06, 2017, 02:53:02 PM
LOL...are people still shaking their fist at California? 

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/gdp/california/#gdp

I guess not everyone can be Kansas

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/gdp/kansas/#gdp
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on November 06, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
@ic:

Where have you been?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on November 06, 2017, 04:04:04 PM
@ic:

Where have you been?

Around but not really participating...topics haven't changed very much :)  Panda still shilling for Atlanta, Morekos still bashing California, life goes on.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 13, 2017, 08:13:42 PM
No matter how dark it gets...keep pulling down the shades!!

California Considers Placing A Mileage Tax On Drivers

SAN FRANCISCO (KPIX 5) — California is moving closer to charging drivers for every mile they drive.

The state says it needs more money for road repairs, and the gas tax just isn’t bringing in enough revenue.


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/11/california-considers-mileage-tax/ (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/11/california-considers-mileage-tax/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on December 14, 2017, 09:23:28 AM
Gas tax is way more than enough.  They simply need to start applying the gas tax to road repairs, instead of robbing it for other things
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 14, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Next time you hear a Democrat saying they only want to tax the rich, remember this.  It hurts the poor and working class the most.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 14, 2017, 09:37:23 AM
I'm sure ordinary citizens could find the funds for road repair that are already in the budget.

Me - fire every single non-STEM teacher in the UC / Cal State / Community College system. We don't need to pay for 200 different "Film Studies" or "Understanding 17 Century French Poetry" classes within a 50 mile radius do we? We don't need to make these "teachers" pension eligible either. If the market needs the jobs that require this kind of education, there are privately run colleges that can pick up the slack.

Bloat within the California State education system is incredible and should be the first place to cut.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 14, 2017, 09:41:25 AM
Me - fire every single non-STEM teacher in the UC / Cal State / Community College system.

There were some very good business and economics teachers when I went to Cal State Long Beach.  A lot of them only taught part time as a way to give back since they were already highly successful in their careers.  I would petition to keep these guys around as well, since they are also creating marketable graduates.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 14, 2017, 09:47:03 AM
True. The Econ teachers would fall under the M in STEM. One could argue that Business degrees might as well given that 1/2 what makes a good business is math driven, 1/3 of success is sales - which cannot be taught in class, and 3/5 of what makes a thriving business is chance plus opportunity.

My .02c

(don't ping me on the math please.. it's intentional...)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 09:52:30 AM
Gas tax is way more than enough.  They simply need to start applying the gas tax to road repairs, instead of robbing it for other things

You understand that the proposal is for the mileage tax to replace the gas tax right?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
True. The Econ teachers would fall under the M in STEM. One could argue that Business degrees might as well given that 1/2 what makes a good business is math driven, 1/3 of success is sales - which cannot be taught in class, and 3/5 of what makes a thriving business is chance plus opportunity.

My .02c

(don't ping me on the math please.. it's intentional...)

I guess we won't need lawyers, historians, teachers, librarians, artists, filmmaker, etc.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2017, 10:01:22 AM

Gas tax is way more than enough.  They simply need to start applying the gas tax to road repairs, instead of robbing it for other things
[/quote]
You understand that the proposal is for the mileage tax to replace the gas tax right?
[/quote]

Which gas tax tax do you think they will "replace"?  Let's not kid ourselves..they won't replace anything...they will augment.  California legislators lack the DNA to repeal or reduce any tax, it's physically impossible.

So by 2019, when you take all taxes and fees together in California, you get:

47.3 cents in primary and secondary excise taxes
2 cents on the underground storage tank fee
9 cents on the sales tax (as per the Tax Foundation estimate)
Total: 58.3 cents per gallon in total taxes and fees on gasoline in California

How much you'll REALLY pay in gasoline tax in California (Hint: It's probably more than you think)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-california-gastax-20170413-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-california-gastax-20170413-story.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 10:03:33 AM
True. The Econ teachers would fall under the M in STEM. One could argue that Business degrees might as well given that 1/2 what makes a good business is math driven, 1/3 of success is sales - which cannot be taught in class, and 3/5 of what makes a thriving business is chance plus opportunity.

My .02c

(don't ping me on the math please.. it's intentional...)

I guess we won't need lawyers, historians, teachers, librarians, artists, filmmaker, etc.
Gas tax is way more than enough.  They simply need to start applying the gas tax to road repairs, instead of robbing it for other things

You understand that the proposal is for the mileage tax to replace the gas tax right?

Which gas tax tax do you think they will "replace"?  Let's not kid ourselves..they won't replace anything...they will augment.  California legislators lack the DNA to repeal or reduce any tax, it's physically impossible.

So by 2019, when you take all taxes and fees together in California, you get:

47.3 cents in primary and secondary excise taxes
2 cents on the underground storage tank fee
9 cents on the sales tax (as per the Tax Foundation estimate)
Total: 58.3 cents per gallon in total taxes and fees on gasoline in California

How much you'll REALLY pay in gasoline tax in California (Hint: It's probably more than you think)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-california-gastax-20170413-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-california-gastax-20170413-story.html)

The proposed bill literally replaces the gas tax with the mileage tax.

California is no. 7 in gas tax even according to Tax Foundation.

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20170208190152/GasTaxMap-01-1024x980.png
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 14, 2017, 10:05:13 AM
Is there a dearth of attorneys out there? Are there no private opportunities for people to learn about the law or the arts?

If we can educate teachers to teach the very basics, sure, providing they teach. There's a circle of 17th Century French Poetry/Ballet/Gender Studies students who become 17th Century French Poetry/Dance/Gender Studies teachers aids, who become 17th Century French Poetry/Dance/Gender Studies professors. Hard to say that's a wise use of the publics treasure.

I'd argue that it's in our better interest of the State of California to graduate a few more electricians, plumbers, HVAC workers than future Baristas. To be clear, being a Barista is an honorable job, but not a career to end up at after spending $200k in student loans learning about 17CFP, or how films get made.

Because the State spends more on these extravagances than other, taxes are high. Businesses avoid planting their feet in the Golden State. This clearly has to change. Starting with some well needed trimming of the education system is a start worth considering.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2017, 10:08:38 AM
Again, which tax?  Primary excise tax, secondary excise tax, or the sales tax?  If they think they will raise more revenue by replacing these taxes they are high on semi-legal weed.  They won't replace anything, they'll just tack it on, like they always do.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 10:10:58 AM
Is there a dearth of attorneys out there? Are there no private opportunities for people to learn about the law or the arts?

If we can educate teachers to teach the very basics, sure, providing they teach. There's a circle of 17th Century French Poetry/Ballet/Gender Studies students who become 17th Century French Poetry/Dance/Gender Studies teachers aids, who become 17th Century French Poetry/Dance/Gender Studies professors. Hard to say that's a wise use of the publics treasure.

I'd argue that it's in our better interest of the State of California to graduate a few more electricians, plumbers, HVAC workers than future Baristas. To be clear, being a Barista is an honorable job, but not a career to end up at after spending $200k in student loans learning about 17CFP, or how films get made.

Because the State spends more on these extravagances than other, taxes are high. Businesses avoid planting their feet in the Golden State. This clearly has to change. Starting with some well needed trimming of the education system is a start worth considering.

My .02c

Is there a dearth of doctors?  Dentist?  Mortgage people?  Hedge Fund trader?

Seems like a pretty subjective list of things to prioritize.  I love science and think STEM is important but society is not just about  making money.  You also seem to think that STEM is in a world on its own when in fact things and subjects are crossing over all the time.   Let's take something like Star Wars...it takes all sorts of individuals and skill sets to create such a project from artists, writers, camera people, electricians, programmers, costume designers, etc. 

The lack of trade skills has nothing to do with universities but rather a lack of candidates or desire by young people to do those job.  Also not desirable jobs include farming and animal husbandry. 

It's funny that people are still selling the narrative that California is on the edge of economic collapse.  This thread started in April 2014...since that time.  California's GDP has grown about 8%...while Texas has grown about 3%..National average is +4.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Again, which tax?  Primary excise tax, secondary excise tax, or the sales tax?  If they think they will raise more revenue by replacing these taxes they are high on semi-legal weed.  They won't replace anything, they'll just tack it on, like they always do.

Okay.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2017, 03:08:22 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh? 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2017, 03:28:14 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

How about if the state doesn't have the money to pay for those obligations?  That's what bankruptcy is for and not raising taxes eternally to pay for these excessive pensions.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2017, 03:30:56 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

How about if the state doesn't have the money to pay for those obligations?  That's what bankruptcy is for and not raising taxes eternally to pay for these excessive pensions.

1)  Yes but the state would have to declare BK first...there are statutory/legal avenues for that

2)  Why are the pensions "excessive"?   Part of the reason why people go to work for the government is in part because of a pension and stability.  Teachers, FF, and police officers for example.  Wouldn't you want to encourage good candidates to take those positions?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2017, 05:35:29 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

How about if the state doesn't have the money to pay for those obligations?  That's what bankruptcy is for and not raising taxes eternally to pay for these excessive pensions.

1)  Yes but the state would have to declare BK first...there are statutory/legal avenues for that

2)  Why are the pensions "excessive"?   Part of the reason why people go to work for the government is in part because of a pension and stability.  Teachers, FF, and police officers for example.  Wouldn't you want to encourage good candidates to take those positions?

I'm not going to get into how the pension programs are ridged for the people at the top to make out like bandits.  I'll just say that the state/municipal pensions are nothing more than a ponzi scheme that will collapse, worse than social security. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on December 14, 2017, 05:46:24 PM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

How about if the state doesn't have the money to pay for those obligations?  That's what bankruptcy is for and not raising taxes eternally to pay for these excessive pensions.

1)  Yes but the state would have to declare BK first...there are statutory/legal avenues for that

2)  Why are the pensions "excessive"?   Part of the reason why people go to work for the government is in part because of a pension and stability.  Teachers, FF, and police officers for example.  Wouldn't you want to encourage good candidates to take those positions?

I'm not going to get into how the pension programs are ridged for the people at the top to make out like bandits.  I'll just say that the state/municipal pensions are nothing more than a ponzi scheme that will collapse, worse than social security.


I think pensions are a needed job security for the govt sector but agree here that some states like CA have abused them to enrich unions, particularly law enforcement types.  I also think this is where the mindset of the new tech-rich CA citizens will eventually clash with the older political establishment that is captive to the power of the public sector unions.  Schwarzenegger tried to take them on in 2005 through ballot initiatives but sadly was defeated thanks to heat spending by the public unions.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 14, 2017, 08:55:57 PM
Why are pensions needed for job security in the govt sector and not other sectors? 

There are plenty of shitty paying jobs across all sectors and most other sectors don’t have pensions.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: OCtoSV on December 14, 2017, 09:45:48 PM
Would these state and local govt workers be able to command higher total compensation in the private sector? what % of law enforcement are degreed? The day Jerry Brown gave state employee unions the right to collective bargaining way back when was the first nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: HMart on December 14, 2017, 11:20:42 PM
I'm sure ordinary citizens could find the funds for road repair that are already in the budget.

Me - fire every single non-STEM teacher in the UC / Cal State / Community College system. We don't need to pay for 200 different "Film Studies" or "Understanding 17 Century French Poetry" classes within a 50 mile radius do we? We don't need to make these "teachers" pension eligible either. If the market needs the jobs that require this kind of education, there are privately run colleges that can pick up the slack.

Bloat within the California State education system is incredible and should be the first place to cut.

My .02c

What's wrong with a simple proposal to tax the people who are using a service? It's a user fee.

I'll quote from the Cato Institute:

The purpose of user fees is to help consumers understand the true cost of what they use and help producers know where to invest in more facilities. Highway user fees should be proportional to how much people use highways, not how much fuel they use. Gas taxes were an adequate user fee when most cars got about the same miles per gallon, but they make less sense today.

Gas taxes were originally implemented by the states nearly a hundred years ago because they were cheap to collect and congestion wasn’t a serious problem. Today, Americans waste more than $100 billion a year sitting in traffic, and the main reason for congestion is that roads are improperly priced.

Gas taxes are an inefficient user fee because they don’t tell drivers that it costs more to drive on some roads than others or during some parts of the day than others. Oregon and other states are developing electronic fee collection systems that insure that people pay for what they use while protecting privacy.

These systems can eliminate congestion by actually increasing the rush-hour capacity of our roads. Rather than raise gas taxes, Congress should take steps towards implementing a new user fee system that preserves privacy, ends congestion, and eliminates highway subsidies.


I'm assuming you lean libertarian in your political view, if not, my mistake. If you believe in free markets I don't see how you can be against user fees, despite the wallet-related pain.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2017, 09:19:47 AM
I have dealt with CALPER's and STRS and I can tell you first hand, They are run by morons and riddled with corruption, nepotism and ineptness.  They consistently over-promise and under deliver on returns with very little accountability.  Both systems will collapse eventually.  Taxpayer funding of that "obligation" is all that keeps it afloat.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 15, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

Cutting existing obligations is more difficult, but cutting pensions for new hires isn't that difficult.  Jerry Brown already pushed through some changes in this regard.  My wife will get a teacher's pension from CALSTRS and her insane benefits are slightly less insane for new teachers.  She will be able to start drawing a pension at age 51 while new hires will have to wait until age 55, I believe. (I don't feel like looking it up.)

Why are pensions needed for job security in the govt sector and not other sectors? 

There are plenty of shitty paying jobs across all sectors and most other sectors don’t have pensions.

I wouldn't consider CA teachers, firefighters, and cops to have shitty paying jobs either.  My wife makes $100k as a teacher with 3 months vacation.  That is 2-3x what a private school teacher typically makes at the elementary level.  Many firefighters and cops make $120k+ when you include overtime pay.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 15, 2017, 10:05:18 AM
I agree plenty of govt jobs pay well like cops and firefighters. The shitty pay is normally the excuse for why a pension is necessary. For cops and firefighters the excuse is that they need to retire at 50 because you wouldn’t want the Person trying to protect you or save your life being 50 do you?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: OCtoSV on December 15, 2017, 10:09:50 AM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

Cutting existing obligations is more difficult, but cutting pensions for new hires isn't that difficult.  Jerry Brown already pushed through some changes in this regard.  My wife will get a teacher's pension from CALSTRS and her insane benefits are slightly less insane for new teachers.  She will be able to start drawing a pension at age 51 while new hires will have to wait until age 55, I believe. (I don't feel like looking it up.)

Why are pensions needed for job security in the govt sector and not other sectors? 

There are plenty of shitty paying jobs across all sectors and most other sectors don’t have pensions.

I wouldn't consider CA teachers, firefighters, and cops to have shitty paying jobs either.  My wife makes $100k as a teacher with 3 months vacation.  That is 2-3x what a private school teacher typically makes at the elementary level.  Many firefighters and cops make $120k+ when you include overtime pay.
The courts have been clear that state pension "contracts" are not unbreakable (I'm sure there is a better legal term). Look at Detroit. This day of reckoning is coming for everyone covered by CALPERS and STRS.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 15, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Here's a thought...how about cut pensions for state workers?  Let's cut not raise taxes.  Novel idea, huh?

Pensions are contractual obligations the are between the state and the employee.  Why should the state be allowed to unilaterally change the terms of an employee's pension?

Cutting existing obligations is more difficult, but cutting pensions for new hires isn't that difficult.  Jerry Brown already pushed through some changes in this regard.  My wife will get a teacher's pension from CALSTRS and her insane benefits are slightly less insane for new teachers.  She will be able to start drawing a pension at age 51 while new hires will have to wait until age 55, I believe. (I don't feel like looking it up.)

Why are pensions needed for job security in the govt sector and not other sectors? 

There are plenty of shitty paying jobs across all sectors and most other sectors don’t have pensions.

I wouldn't consider CA teachers, firefighters, and cops to have shitty paying jobs either.  My wife makes $100k as a teacher with 3 months vacation.  That is 2-3x what a private school teacher typically makes at the elementary level.  Many firefighters and cops make $120k+ when you include overtime pay.
The courts have been clear that state pension "contracts" are not unbreakable (I'm sure there is a better legal term). Look at Detroit. This day of reckoning is coming for everyone covered by CALPERS and STRS.

State pension contracts are unbreakable in California as of now...there is another SC review upcoming but Cali SC has been pretty consistent in holding that pensions are contractual obligations that cannot be broken unilaterally.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 15, 2017, 10:18:28 AM
I agree plenty of govt jobs pay well like cops and firefighters. The shitty pay is normally the excuse for why a pension is necessary. For cops and firefighters the excuse is that they need to retire at 50 because you wouldn’t want the Person trying to protect you or save your life being 50 do you?

Quote
Deputy Chief, Michael Knox says staffing numbers are at a dangerous low. In fact, he says they’re down at least 300 street-ready officers right now. “It causes us to put an enormous amount of stress on the existing staff,” Knox says “to make up for everyone who has left this department.”

He blames the exodus mostly on a watershed moment back in 2012. That’s when San Jose voters passed local ballot measure B. The initiative poured vinegar into the sweet tea of public worker compensation deals by making sweeping cuts to retirement pensions. Current employees would have to pay more for their retirement benefits or take a less generous pension. New employees would be offered less. All public workers would lose their disability protections as well the certainty of their pensions, altogether if there was a fiscal emergency.

“That has made it increasingly difficult to compete with other agencies,” says Knox. “And not only to recruit but to retain our staff.”

https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/01/01/a-case-study-on-pension-reform-san-joses-grand-compromise/

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 15, 2017, 10:41:07 AM
So he's saying other agencies that haven't reformed pensions yet are scooping up all the talent.  This is the argument that police departments have been making for all eternity.  It's the reason pensions got so out of control to begin with.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 15, 2017, 11:08:11 AM
So he's saying other agencies that haven't reformed pensions yet are scooping up all the talent.  This is the argument that police departments have been making for all eternity.  It's the reason pensions got so out of control to begin with.

He is saying that pensions are a factor in getting good candidates for the job.   

BTW:  Back to your other point.  Teachers do make 6 figures but after 10+ years and with some sort of advanced degree.  They fund their own pension just like people fund SS.  The problem is no different, you have a huge group retiring and people are living longer.   And one of the biggest issue in health benefits, which is also an issue that is much bigger than pensions.

http://www.ppic.org/publication/public-pension-liabilities-in-california/

I also don't get the concern over unfunded liabilities...it's is no different than mortgages that most of us carry.  We pay as we go.  Does not mean that somehow mortgages are bad ideas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 15, 2017, 11:56:20 AM
One teensie, eensie, weensie difference is that SS only allows you to start collecting at age 62, and it's a tiny fraction of what one would have earned in their final year of employment.  For instance, my dad retired at age 63 and was getting 31% of his final salary.

My wife's CalSTRS pension will allow her to retire at age 51 with 50% of her final year's salary.  If she waits until age 62, she will get 98% of her pay.  So to equate SS to a public pension is a bit misleading.  One system ensures some basic level of survival, and the other is extremely generous.

Teachers do fund their own pensions, but only part of it.  The district covers the rest, and when the district can't afford to make those payments, they either impose tax increases on other citizens to pay for them, or they cut money for existing classrooms.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on December 15, 2017, 12:34:16 PM
I also don't get the concern over unfunded liabilities...it's is no different than mortgages that most of us carry.  We pay as we go.  Does not mean that somehow mortgages are bad ideas.
To stick with a bad analogy, pensions are more like a negative amortization loan, but worse.  The costs are going to increase over time, while the projections to pay for them are based on aggressive bullshit assumptions about future investment returns.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 15, 2017, 12:40:15 PM
I also don't get the concern over unfunded liabilities...it's is no different than mortgages that most of us carry.  We pay as we go.  Does not mean that somehow mortgages are bad ideas.
To stick with a bad analogy, pensions are more like a negative amortization loan, but worse.  The costs are going to increase over time, while the projections to pay for them are based on aggressive bullshit assumptions about future investment returns.

That makes some sense.  I mean I get the concern but a lot of the issues with pensions have to do with demographics and the Great Rescission.  I mean one of the big contentions pension critics have is that they use too high of RoR to calculate pension contribution but the 7% used is in line with historical norms.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 15, 2017, 12:42:34 PM
Taxpayers are on the hook for governmental pensions.


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 15, 2017, 02:12:38 PM
I also don't get the concern over unfunded liabilities...it's is no different than mortgages that most of us carry.  We pay as we go.  Does not mean that somehow mortgages are bad ideas.
To stick with a bad analogy, pensions are more like a negative amortization loan, but worse.  The costs are going to increase over time, while the projections to pay for them are based on aggressive bullshit assumptions about future investment returns.

That makes some sense.  I mean I get the concern but a lot of the issues with pensions have to do with demographics and the Great Rescission.  I mean one of the big contentions pension critics have is that they use too high of RoR to calculate pension contribution but the 7% used is in line with historical norms.

Problem is that the pension system is broken, it should be more like SS where you make a fraction of your highest salary not nearly 100% of it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 27, 2017, 10:50:34 AM

Quoting for 2018.

MoreKaos' predictions have been scarily correct (except for the mass exodus of businesses from California :) ).

I stand by my predictions...causality, cause and effect.

Nearly 450,000 People Fled These Three Deep Blue States In 2017

California was the third deep blue state to experience significant domestic out-migration between July 2016 and July 2017, and it couldn’t blame the outflow on retirees searching for a more agreeable climate. About 138,000 residents left the state during that time period, second only to New York.

Going forward, one factor that could worsen domestic out-migration from New York, California and Illinois is the newly-enacted tax reform bill, which caps state and local tax (SALT) deductions at $10,000. The limit on SALT deduction is poised to hit taxpayers harder in those states than it will in just about any other.

According to the Tax Foundation, New York, Illinois and California had three of the five highest tax rates expressed as a percentage of per capita income, with residents paying 12.7 percent, 11 percent and 11 percent, respectively.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/26/nearly-450000-people-fled-these-three-deep-blue-states-in-2017/ (http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/26/nearly-450000-people-fled-these-three-deep-blue-states-in-2017/)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 27, 2017, 11:50:21 AM
Yet Cali's population grew by 335,000 residents:

http://www.dof.ca.gov/Forecasting/Demographics/Estimates/e-1/documents/E-1_2017PressRelease.pdf

Cali is still the most populated state and 3rd in growth numerically:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/estimates-idaho.html

So maybe we are not doing as well as previous years in terms of economic growth, it's still growing.

Still waiting for morekaos to tell us when he's moving out of Cali.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 27, 2017, 11:53:53 AM
Never. Said that repeatedly.  I fortunately, have the means to tough it out.  My kids?...I dunno. The net gain in population lacks quality and income...not an encouraging trend.

Welcome to Skid Row 2017:
Shocking scale of homelessness in downtown LA is exposed in footage showing sidewalks lined with dozens of tents in deprived area where 20,000 people live on the streets
Three-minute LiveLeak clip shows the brutal reality of Christmas Day in the underbelly of Downtown LA
Shot on 5th Street, 6th Steet and San Pedro in the Skid Row district, it captures life in one of the city's most notorious homeless hotspots
Rubbish bags litter the streets and tents have been erected to shelter residents - including women and children
Rising cost of living in California is also forcing middle class residents to live in their cars in affluent areas

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5214593/Christmas-Day-2017-Downtown-Los-Angeles.html#ixzz52UdhVrIK  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5214593/Christmas-Day-2017-Downtown-Los-Angeles.html#ixzz52UdhVrIK)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 27, 2017, 12:42:47 PM
I know DTLA is trying it's best to make it seem like a redeveloped "go to" place, but if you've driven through recently, it's overrun with the genuinely poor, the mentally ill, and "free spirits" who are only living on the streets because they are "free loaders".

Take the Santa Ana River Trail encampments and add a few gallons of Soviet sourced steroids - you know.. the good stuff... which geometrically grows these camps into oversized monstrosities and that's what DTLA is today. Sad stuff.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on December 27, 2017, 06:32:37 PM
Silicon Valley is leaving Silicon Valley!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/silicon-valley-will-soon-see-mass-migration-redfin-ceo-says.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 27, 2017, 11:23:40 PM
Never. Said that repeatedly.  I fortunately, have the means to tough it out.  My kids?...I dunno. The net gain in population lacks quality and income...not an encouraging trend.

Welcome to Skid Row 2017:
Shocking scale of homelessness in downtown LA is exposed in footage showing sidewalks lined with dozens of tents in deprived area where 20,000 people live on the streets
Three-minute LiveLeak clip shows the brutal reality of Christmas Day in the underbelly of Downtown LA
Shot on 5th Street, 6th Steet and San Pedro in the Skid Row district, it captures life in one of the city's most notorious homeless hotspots
Rubbish bags litter the streets and tents have been erected to shelter residents - including women and children
Rising cost of living in California is also forcing middle class residents to live in their cars in affluent areas

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5214593/Christmas-Day-2017-Downtown-Los-Angeles.html#ixzz52UdhVrIK  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5214593/Christmas-Day-2017-Downtown-Los-Angeles.html#ixzz52UdhVrIK)


Wow, driving through that area looked dangerous.  I've been more and more tents pop up by the Santa Ana River bed, very sad indeed.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on December 28, 2017, 08:46:09 AM
Silicon Valley is leaving Silicon Valley!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/silicon-valley-will-soon-see-mass-migration-redfin-ceo-says.html

The headquarters for these companies will stay in Coastal areas because that's where the executives want to live, but the workers will increasingly be located in inland areas.  A lot of these guys are introverts that code for 12 hours a day and that can be done from anywhere that has high speed bandwidth.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 28, 2017, 09:57:45 AM
Silicon Valley is leaving Silicon Valley!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/silicon-valley-will-soon-see-mass-migration-redfin-ceo-says.html

The headquarters for these companies will stay in Coastal areas because that's where the executives want to live, but the workers will increasingly be located in inland areas.  A lot of these guys are introverts that code for 12 hours a day and that can be done from anywhere that has high speed bandwidth.

Nah...future will be people working remotely.  Living in Silicon Valley is a lifestyle choice.  People who live in SI likes that young vibe...otherwise they could move elsewhere in BA. 

Just like West LA is not for everyone but still in super high demand.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 28, 2017, 10:07:56 AM
I agree there are many VC around SV. Good area to be in and the talent pool is there.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 28, 2017, 10:38:10 AM
I agree there are many VC around SV. Good area to be in and the talent pool is there.

People also underestimate the minority/immigrant community factor.  Global recruiting means that a lot of oversea candidates, who want to settle down in areas that they and their families can be comfortable with.  One of the reasons why California will always have an advantage over most states, especially with biggest talent pools in Asia.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: OCtoSV on December 28, 2017, 12:33:37 PM
Silicon Valley is leaving Silicon Valley!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/silicon-valley-will-soon-see-mass-migration-redfin-ceo-says.html

The headquarters for these companies will stay in Coastal areas because that's where the executives want to live, but the workers will increasingly be located in inland areas.  A lot of these guys are introverts that code for 12 hours a day and that can be done from anywhere that has high speed bandwidth.

Nah...future will be people working remotely.  Living in Silicon Valley is a lifestyle choice.  People who live in SI likes that young vibe...otherwise they could move elsewhere in BA. 

Just like West LA is not for everyone but still in super high demand.
There is an embedded talent pool that will continue to act as a magnet, but as a new grad you need to have a real plan to move here. Many local companies actually give preference to new grads from the area (i.e. parents live here) as they can live at home for a few years to reduce COL.

Most Wall St workers live in NJ or Brooklyn/LI - only the wealthiest live in Manhattan. SV/Peninsula central locations will be the same.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 03, 2018, 07:49:51 AM
Not one city in Cali makes the list...shameful.

These cities have the best chance of winning the war for Amazon's new headquarters

Amazon plans to spend $5 billion on a second headquarters in the U.S., which will employ 50,000 people.
Amazon favors metro areas with 1 million people and a stable, business-friendly environment.
Analysis from CNBC's America's Top States for Business and the U.S. Census Bureau gives high grades to a number of southern cities with strong economies and workforces.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/these-cities-may-win-war-for-amazons-new-headquarters.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/these-cities-may-win-war-for-amazons-new-headquarters.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 03, 2018, 08:18:59 AM
Not one city in Cali makes the list...shameful.

These cities have the best chance of winning the war for Amazon's new headquarters

Amazon plans to spend $5 billion on a second headquarters in the U.S., which will employ 50,000 people.
Amazon favors metro areas with 1 million people and a stable, business-friendly environment.
Analysis from CNBC's America's Top States for Business and the U.S. Census Bureau gives high grades to a number of southern cities with strong economies and workforces.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/these-cities-may-win-war-for-amazons-new-headquarters.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/these-cities-may-win-war-for-amazons-new-headquarters.html)

Shameful?  That seems ridiculous.   Amazon already has a west coast HQ...make sense to move away from there.   Also, it's pure speculation at this point.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 03, 2018, 12:56:09 PM
I have dealt with CALPER's and STRS and I can tell you first hand, They are run by morons and riddled with corruption, nepotism and ineptness.  They consistently over-promise and under deliver on returns with very little accountability.  Both systems will collapse eventually.  Taxpayer funding of that "obligation" is all that keeps it afloat.

And like clockwork....Like I said, run by hacks and morons.
We will get stuck with the bill...again


Dubious Investments Further Imperil Calif. Pension Plan

The system already has a $153 billion unfunded liability, one of the largest shortfalls of any state, and it only has funds to cover 68 percent of promised benefits into the future. And because CalPERS is already cash negative, paying out $5 billion more in benefits to retirees each year than it takes in, there aren’t many scenarios whereby the system would be able to make good on those promises absent outside intervention (read: taxpayer bailout). 

When the CalPERS investment committee reallocated its investments recently, it assumed a 7 percent annualized rate of return. While CalPERS has enjoyed some good years—for example, its 2017 return may exceed 11 percent—that’s not the norm. The fund has averaged a 4.6 percent rate over the past decade, and its 2016 rate was an abysmal 0.6 percent.

CalPERS’ strategy -- and to a large extent that of the state in general -- seems crafted first and foremost to advance the interest of public sector labor unions. The high compensation for state government workers and the state’s munificent retirement benefits make it difficult for local government officials to find the money necessary to meet their obligations. Rising contribution rates for local governments mean that municipalities and schools have less money to educate children, build roads or provide other essential government functions.

CalPERS has prioritized relatively poor-performing environmental, social and governance (ESG) investments at the expense of other options more likely to optimize beneficiary returns. As a recent study by the American Council for Capital Formation shows, four of CalPERS’ nine worst performing funds were ESG-focused.

Making investment decisions based on social issues has real consequences. Last year CalPERS’ board expanded its ban on investing in companies that produce tobacco products, against recommendations by its professional staff. In an analysis of the cost of divestment produced for CalPERS, Wilshire Consulting placed the system’s total foregone investment gains at more than $3.6 billion.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/02/dubious_investments_further_imperil_calif_pension_plan_135887.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/02/dubious_investments_further_imperil_calif_pension_plan_135887.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: iacrenter on January 03, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
I have dealt with CALPER's and STRS and I can tell you first hand, They are run by morons and riddled with corruption, nepotism and ineptness.  They consistently over-promise and under deliver on returns with very little accountability.  Both systems will collapse eventually.  Taxpayer funding of that "obligation" is all that keeps it afloat.

And like clockwork....Like I said, run by hacks and morons.
We will get stuck with the bill...again


Dubious Investments Further Imperil Calif. Pension Plan

The system already has a $153 billion unfunded liability, one of the largest shortfalls of any state, and it only has funds to cover 68 percent of promised benefits into the future. And because CalPERS is already cash negative, paying out $5 billion more in benefits to retirees each year than it takes in, there aren’t many scenarios whereby the system would be able to make good on those promises absent outside intervention (read: taxpayer bailout). 

When the CalPERS investment committee reallocated its investments recently, it assumed a 7 percent annualized rate of return. While CalPERS has enjoyed some good years—for example, its 2017 return may exceed 11 percent—that’s not the norm. The fund has averaged a 4.6 percent rate over the past decade, and its 2016 rate was an abysmal 0.6 percent.

CalPERS’ strategy -- and to a large extent that of the state in general -- seems crafted first and foremost to advance the interest of public sector labor unions. The high compensation for state government workers and the state’s munificent retirement benefits make it difficult for local government officials to find the money necessary to meet their obligations. Rising contribution rates for local governments mean that municipalities and schools have less money to educate children, build roads or provide other essential government functions.

CalPERS has prioritized relatively poor-performing environmental, social and governance (ESG) investments at the expense of other options more likely to optimize beneficiary returns. As a recent study by the American Council for Capital Formation shows, four of CalPERS’ nine worst performing funds were ESG-focused.

Making investment decisions based on social issues has real consequences. Last year CalPERS’ board expanded its ban on investing in companies that produce tobacco products, against recommendations by its professional staff. In an analysis of the cost of divestment produced for CalPERS, Wilshire Consulting placed the system’s total foregone investment gains at more than $3.6 billion.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/02/dubious_investments_further_imperil_calif_pension_plan_135887.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/02/dubious_investments_further_imperil_calif_pension_plan_135887.html)

How about a one time state bailout in exchange for significant Calpers restructuring:
1) Decrease in benefits
2) Convert all current pension plans to 401K
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on January 03, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
Fuck that. If my 401k tanks no one is bailing me out. If the money isn’t there, reduce the payouts.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 03, 2018, 03:46:31 PM
Fuck that. If my 401k tanks no one is bailing me out. If the money isn’t there, reduce the payouts.

LOL...401K was one of the biggest scams that corporation ever put on workers.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: i1 on January 10, 2018, 07:27:59 PM

(http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/figure-2.jpg)

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/california-is-working/
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 11, 2018, 07:58:42 AM
UC Berkeley Center for Labor Research and Education is a very questionable source...

UC Berkeley researchers miss the mark on minimum wage increases

These consequences are consistent with the majority of the empirical research on this subject, as summarized by economists David Neumark of UC Irvine and William Wascher of the Federal Reserve Board. The UC Berkeley team ignored this consensus in its report, thus producing rose-colored results that don’t match reality.

Unfortunately, this is par for the course for UC Berkeley’s union-backed Labor Center, which is run by former living wage organizer Ken Jacobs. In one troublesome 2014 email exchange obtained under the California Public Records Act, Jacobs asked for a recommendation letter from the Restaurant Opportunities Center to support a grant for his Labor Center’s ongoing “research and (technical assistance) work for local groups engaged in work to raise the minimum wage,” as well as “testimony/media work around the issue in the East Bay.”

Among the groups Jacobs listed as a “partner” was Raise the Wage East Bay, suggesting that the Berkeley team is more activist than academic.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/soapbox/article29582665.html (http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/soapbox/article29582665.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 14, 2018, 09:56:31 AM
More harsh realities...

Why is liberal California the poverty capital of America?

The generous spending, then, has not only failed to decrease poverty; it actually seems to have made it worse.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/01/14/why_is_liberal_california_the_poverty_capital_of_america_431453.html
 (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2018/01/14/why_is_liberal_california_the_poverty_capital_of_america_431453.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 18, 2018, 10:59:17 PM
Even Moonbeam is getting nervous.

Wealthy exodus to escape new tax rules worries California Democrats

The Republican-backed federal tax bill flipped the tables on a never-ending question for California politicians: Will high taxes lead the state’s wealthiest residents to flee the Golden State for the comparable tax havens of Florida, Nevada and Texas?

Republicans reliably raise that alarm when Democrats advocate for tax increases, like the 2012 and 2016 ballot initiatives that levied a new income tax on very high-earning residents.

But now, with the federal tax bill cutting off deductions that benefited well-off Californians, the state’s Democrats suddenly are singing the GOP song about a potential millionaire exodus.

“People with higher incomes pay a lot more money, and some of them may be tempted to leave,” Gov. Jerry Brown said when he unveiled his 2018-19 budget proposal last week. “This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article195405279.html#storylink=spy (http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article195405279.html#storylink=spy)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 19, 2018, 09:33:02 AM
Even Moonbeam is getting nervous.

Wealthy exodus to escape new tax rules worries California Democrats

The Republican-backed federal tax bill flipped the tables on a never-ending question for California politicians: Will high taxes lead the state’s wealthiest residents to flee the Golden State for the comparable tax havens of Florida, Nevada and Texas?

Republicans reliably raise that alarm when Democrats advocate for tax increases, like the 2012 and 2016 ballot initiatives that levied a new income tax on very high-earning residents.

But now, with the federal tax bill cutting off deductions that benefited well-off Californians, the state’s Democrats suddenly are singing the GOP song about a potential millionaire exodus.

“People with higher incomes pay a lot more money, and some of them may be tempted to leave,” Gov. Jerry Brown said when he unveiled his 2018-19 budget proposal last week. “This was an assault by the Republicans in Congress against California.”


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article195405279.html#storylink=spy (http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article195405279.html#storylink=spy)

Love how he blames the Republicans in Congress for this....how about looking in the mirror and taking care of your house first.  The tax bill just shines the light on how high the state income tax burden is for many folks in CA. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Kings on January 24, 2018, 07:13:21 AM
This will surely keep businesses here in California!

Quote
Assembly Democrats offer a dumb tax bill. Republicans love it

Playing to bad tax-and-spend stereotypes of California Democrats, Assemblymen Kevin McCarty and Phil Ting have offered a counter-productive, ill-considered and ultimately futile proposal to raise corporate taxes.

It should be withdrawn and buried, never to be heard from again.

The measure, Assembly Constitutional Amendment 22, seeks to ask voters to impose on corporations doing business in California a “surcharge” of 10 percent on net earnings of more than $1 million, as The Sacramento Bee’s Alexei Koseff reports.

The windfall – as much as $17 billion a year – would go to low-income workers in the form of an expanded earned income tax credit, tax rebates or other tax relief to be determined, and would be spent on more state-funded child care, early childhood education, affordable health care and college financial aid.

It all sounds so good.

But it is a tin-eared attempt by McCarty, D-Sacramento, and Ting, D-San Francisco, to resist President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans who approved a massive federal tax cut for corporations. It’s especially ill-timed when Gov. Jerry Brown anticipates sufficient tax revenue to maintain a $13.5 billion reserve fund this year.

We do hope there’s money in this year’s budget to expand California’s earned income tax credit. And we dislike much of Trump’s tax overhaul. But ACA 22 is the sort of concept that legislators offer up when they talk amongst themselves and a few others who don’t dare question them.

It has no chance of winning the necessary two-thirds vote in the Legislature needed to place it on the ballot. And yet it has political downside for the Democratic Party. Republicans are capitalizing on their announcement, pointing out that if Democrats hold two-thirds majorities in both houses after the 2018 election, they could pass such punitive tax increases.

Certainly, Ting and McCarty did no favors for Sen. Josh Newman, D-Fullerton, who faces a recall in June, supposedly over his vote to raise gasoline taxes in 2017. Newman holds a swing seat, and without him, Democrats would lose their two-thirds majority in the Senate.

There’s plenty broken with California’s tax structure. But its 8.84 percent corporate tax rate is already relatively high compared with other states. Bills that blindly seek to soak big business and the rich at a time of budget surplus solve nothing.

California’s tax system should be updated to match a 21st century economy. The high sales tax rate, which hits low-income people hardest, ought to be lowered, and certain services used by wealthier people and corporations ought to be subject to taxes. Proposition 13, the property tax cutting measure approved by voters 40 years ago, could be revisited.

The time may come when California needs to turn to corporations for more revenue. But not when there is a $13.5 billion budget reserve, and not simply because Democrats dislike the current occupant of the Oval Office.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article195653294.html (http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article195653294.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 24, 2018, 07:58:26 AM
Patients running the insane asylum.  These greedy politicians are so blind they will kill an industry before it even gets a foothold in the state by taxing it to death. . A sort of retroactive abortion.

High taxes on legal pot in California could mean black market will thrive

State and local taxes on marijuana could surpass 45% in some parts of California, jeopardizing efforts to bring all growers and sellers into a state-licensed market in January, according to the global credit ratings firm Fitch Ratings.

“High tax rates raise prices in legal markets, reinforcing the price advantage of black markets,” the firm said in a report Monday. “California’s black markets for cannabis were well established long before its voters legalized cannabis in November 2016 and are expected to dominate post-legalization production.”

http://www.latimes.com/style/la-marijuana-updates-high-taxes-on-legal-pot-in-california-1509477443-htmlstory.html (http://www.latimes.com/style/la-marijuana-updates-high-taxes-on-legal-pot-in-california-1509477443-htmlstory.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on February 13, 2018, 09:20:37 AM
Idiots!!

Youth tackle football targeted for ban in California as head trauma concerns grow

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/article199531854.html (http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/article199531854.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 02, 2018, 05:38:39 PM
We’re number 50!!!  Leading from behind!!

California has worst 'quality of life' in US, study says

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 02, 2018, 05:42:46 PM
We’re number 50!!!  Leading from behind!!

California has worst 'quality of life' in US, study says

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings)

Right and North Dakota is no. 1.  You are more than welcome to move there!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 02, 2018, 09:11:11 PM
I don’t want to move there. I want my native state to be #1, not #50.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 03, 2018, 08:38:55 AM
IMHO there's a flaw in the ranking system.  Each measured component has a fairly important piece that will be adversely affected by poverty and people on State assistance.  If we simply ranked States by percentage of poverty I wonder how it would be different.


I'm always leery when I read descriptions iike this:
"Crime & Corrections ranks states based on public safety and the quality and fairness of their prison systems, including racial bias."
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 19, 2018, 09:34:53 PM
And the hits just keep on comin

Californians fed up with housing costs and taxes are fleeing state in big numbers

More Californians are moving from the Golden State, particularly lower-income residents, although even middle-class residents are saying goodbye.
The trend is a symptom of the state's housing crunch and, for some, high taxes.
Census Bureau data show California lost just over 138,000 people to domestic migration in the 12 months ended in July 2017.
Lower-cost states such as Arizona, Texas and Nevada are popular destinations for relocating Californians

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/19/californians-fed-up-with-housing-costs-and-taxes-are-fleeing-state.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 20, 2018, 08:17:13 AM

Census Bureau data show California lost just over 138,000 people to domestic migration in the 12 months ended in July 2017.

So misleading.

If you look at the census data, California actually gained about 280,000 people in that time period:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA

Quote
   
California
Population estimates, July 1, 2017, (V2017)   39,536,653
Population estimates, July 1, 2016, (V2016)   39,250,017

Where is the article for double the people leaving California are moving in?

#mathfacts
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on March 20, 2018, 10:07:26 AM

Census Bureau data show California lost just over 138,000 people to domestic migration in the 12 months ended in July 2017.

So misleading.

If you look at the census data, California actually gained about 280,000 people in that time period:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA

Quote
   
California
Population estimates, July 1, 2017, (V2017)   39,536,653
Population estimates, July 1, 2016, (V2016)   39,250,017

Where is the article for double the people leaving California are moving in?

#mathfacts

It's true that domestic migration is only one component of population.  The others are immigration and the ratio of births to deaths.

Still, this article points out something that has been happening for a long time, which is that multi-generational California residents are moving out, especially people that are earning only the median income or less.  It makes sense if you don't have great earning power to lower your cost of living by going out of state.  Blue collar jobs pay almost the same in both places, but your cost of living can be cut in half.

You also have older folks retiring to states where they can pay cash for homes.  They don't need the robust CA job market any longer and they aren't active enough to care about the weather or outdoor activities as much as they used to.  Why not buy a dream home and enjoy life outside of the rat race?

IHO - It seems like you've been around these parts for awhile.  I'm surprised you don't have any family or friends that have chosen to leave California for better prospects somewhere else?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 20, 2018, 10:16:42 AM

Census Bureau data show California lost just over 138,000 people to domestic migration in the 12 months ended in July 2017.

So misleading.

If you look at the census data, California actually gained about 280,000 people in that time period:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA

Quote
   
California
Population estimates, July 1, 2017, (V2017)   39,536,653
Population estimates, July 1, 2016, (V2016)   39,250,017

Where is the article for double the people leaving California are moving in?

#mathfacts

It's true that domestic migration is only one component of population.  The others are immigration and the ratio of births to deaths.

Still, this article points out something that has been happening for a long time, which is that multi-generational California residents are moving out, especially people that are earning only the median income or less.  It makes sense if you don't have great earning power to lower your cost of living by going out of state.  Blue collar jobs pay almost the same in both places, but your cost of living can be cut in half.

You also have older folks retiring to states where they can pay cash for homes.  They don't need the robust CA job market any longer and they aren't active enough to care about the weather or outdoor activities as much as they used to.  Why not buy a dream home and enjoy life outside of the rat race?

IHO - It seems like you've been around these parts for awhile.  I'm surprised you don't have any family or friends that have chosen to leave California for better prospects somewhere else?

And your point is?  That multi-generational Californians are somehow extra important?  California is getting expensive to live in...because a lot of people want to live here and it has good high-paying jobs. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 20, 2018, 10:52:25 AM
IHO - It seems like you've been around these parts for awhile.  I'm surprised you don't have any family or friends that have chosen to leave California for better prospects somewhere else?

I've had relatives that moved out of state... came back a few years later because of weather, lifestyle, family even though housing was much cheaper. They still go back to visit the friends they made... but glad they live here and only have to visit there.

We have friends who moved to the south east coast (Panda!!!) and they still want to move back but maybe after their kids have graduated from college. They come to Cali multiple times a year for work and leisure.

So by inference, I can also say that the opposite of that article points out that people who have the income choose California even though they can afford more elsewhere. And more people are making that choice than those who are leaving.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 22, 2018, 09:32:14 AM
Actually, it's not the poor, well, actual poor as opposed to California Poor, that are leaving.  I'll look to see if I can find the research that I previously saw that said those leaving are largely the $100K-$200K crowd.

They make okay money, but here, it will leave you scrabbling for a ok-ish condo in a good school district area or a 50 year dated home needing work in a much rougher school area. 

For those with transportable skills, your work-a-day office and tech workers, their quality of life is greatly improved elsewhere.

And frankly, the continual export of Californian's to Arizona, Texas and elsewhere is already having noticeable effects on the kinds and levels of social services and government regulations they want. 

The true irony is they flee here because of taxes and nanny state and proceed to demand the same when they get where they're going.

The people of our country, IMHO are seriously dysfunctional regarding taxes and services and we have a bad case of cake and eat it to with someone else 'should pay their fair share'.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 22, 2018, 10:22:15 AM
I can tell you for fact, those high incomes, that are able to operate off-site, are moving. I can tell you of several of my com-padres, with $3-5 million of income, are simply switching offices to Las Vegas and Texas.  Buying houses there, putting up all the necessary sign posts that allow them to claim residence. Keeping their houses in Newport, Huntington and Long Beach, while skirting all the Cali taxes, and (really) still living here.  Money (like life) finds a way.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Loco_local on March 22, 2018, 10:49:53 AM
Are these the same people who bitch about high crime and too many potholes?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 22, 2018, 10:59:01 AM
Not really in those cities.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 22, 2018, 11:36:22 AM
I can tell you for fact, those high incomes, that are able to operate off-site, are moving. I can tell you of several of my com-padres, with $3-5 million of income, are simply switching offices to Las Vegas and Texas.  Buying houses there, putting up all the necessary sign posts that allow them to claim residence. Keeping their houses in Newport, Huntington and Long Beach, while skirting all the Cali taxes, and (really) still living here.  Money (like life) finds a way.

So you just confirmed my side of the argument... no one is really leaving California if they can afford it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 22, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
I can tell you for fact, those high incomes, that are able to operate off-site, are moving. I can tell you of several of my com-padres, with $3-5 million of income, are simply switching offices to Las Vegas and Texas.  Buying houses there, putting up all the necessary sign posts that allow them to claim residence. Keeping their houses in Newport, Huntington and Long Beach, while skirting all the Cali taxes, and (really) still living here.  Money (like life) finds a way.

So you just confirmed my side of the argument... no one is really leaving California if they can afford it.

And how is that much different than people who move their money behind tax shelters and overseas?  Rich people will find ways to avoid taxes.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 22, 2018, 11:45:43 AM
Most importantly the income, tax revenue and investment IS, all the while more takers flood in.  Socialism is great...till you run out of other peoples money.  These are native Californians who would and have paid their state taxes in the past.  They would again, if the burden was not so "unfair" and onerous. Others I also know have simply fled in order to escape.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 22, 2018, 11:45:53 AM
I can tell you for fact, those high incomes, that are able to operate off-site, are moving. I can tell you of several of my com-padres, with $3-5 million of income, are simply switching offices to Las Vegas and Texas.  Buying houses there, putting up all the necessary sign posts that allow them to claim residence. Keeping their houses in Newport, Huntington and Long Beach, while skirting all the Cali taxes, and (really) still living here.  Money (like life) finds a way.

So you just confirmed my side of the argument... no one is really leaving California if they can afford it.

And how is that much different than people who move their money behind tax shelters and overseas?  Rich people will find ways to avoid taxes.

Uh... different topic.

Because morekaos' earlier post was about how people were leaving Cali, when actually, they are not, just their business addresses.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 22, 2018, 11:51:09 AM
Most importantly the income, tax revenue and investment IS, all the while more takers flood in.  Socialism is great...till you run out of other peoples money.  These are native Californians who would and have paid their state taxes in the past.  They would again, if the burden was not so "unfair" and onerous. Others I also know have simply fled in order to escape.

Show me a link where a significant amount of money has left? I'm pretty sure tax dollars are the same or higher than previous years.

For every business that leaves, more move in, and the ones here, just make more money.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on March 22, 2018, 11:53:55 AM
After the FL and Texas incidents, people should reconsider moving?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on March 22, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
The 1% tax on millionaires to improve mental health seems to be working wonders though.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 22, 2018, 01:50:16 PM
All the more reason to dump income tax and replace it with property tax and sales taxes on all titled property, financial instruments and cash accounts.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 22, 2018, 03:15:27 PM
All the more reason to dump income tax and replace it with property tax and sales taxes on all titled property, financial instruments and cash accounts.

Like Florida?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 09, 2018, 09:54:49 PM
Stating the obvious or a post mordem confession

California lacks a job-friendly economic policy

One California bid made Amazon’s list of 20 finalists, something that probably would not have happened if Gov. Jerry Brown had not written a letter to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos promising a long list of incentives, breaks and assistance.

It reads like a confession of everything California is doing to kill businesses.

It’s a useful list for the next governor, and for anyone who wonders why there’s no gold rush of businesses moving to California.

State lawmakers should be studying that list and talking to business relocation specialists about how to make California an attractive destination for companies seeking to expand. Instead, current proposals in the Legislature seek to increase taxes and regulatory burdens further.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/07/california-lacks-a-job-friendly-economic-policy/ (https://www.ocregister.com/2018/04/07/california-lacks-a-job-friendly-economic-policy/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 27, 2018, 06:15:05 AM
More good news...

800,000 people are about to flee New York and California because of taxes, say economists

800,000 people will leave New York and California over the next three years due to the new tax bill, conservative economists Arthur Laffer and Stephen Moore said in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal.
Other economists dispute this finding, say there is no connection between taxes and migration.
These economists claim high-tax states will likely generate more wealth than they lose.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/800000-people-are-about-to-flee-new-york-california-because-of-taxes.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/800000-people-are-about-to-flee-new-york-california-because-of-taxes.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: freedomcm on April 27, 2018, 07:02:36 AM
Oh yes, let's listen to the economists who have gotten everything wrong for 40 years...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on May 03, 2018, 07:07:43 AM
Looks like the majority that are leaving are with annual income under $50k and the majority of those move in are with high income of $100k or more.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/with-no-letup-in-home-prices-the-california-exodus-surges-2018-05-03

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/05/01/Photos/ZH/MW-GI343_ca_mig_20180501170723_ZH.jpg?uuid=a48ffc64-4d83-11e8-9a10-ac162d7bc1f7)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on May 03, 2018, 10:31:35 AM
Just wait until they get around to imposing head tax...

(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Head-tax-ONLINE-COLOR-640x494.jpg)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on May 03, 2018, 10:33:26 AM
Looks like the majority that are leaving are with annual income under $50k and the majority of those move in are with high income of $100k or more.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/with-no-letup-in-home-prices-the-california-exodus-surges-2018-05-03

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/05/01/Photos/ZH/MW-GI343_ca_mig_20180501170723_ZH.jpg?uuid=a48ffc64-4d83-11e8-9a10-ac162d7bc1f7)

This is how pricing acts as a sorting mechanism in economics.  Only those who can afford real estate (own or rent) are moving in, and those who can no longer afford it are leading the charge out.

I've seen it in my personal life:

Outmigration~
-my renters of 7 years that combined maybe made $100k (moved to Oregon)
-two different couples of friends where the husbands have blue collar professions and the wives have service/teaching jobs (moved to Oregon and Texas)
-cousin who wants to stay home with the kids and live in a 3,500 sqft house, while her husband works as a college professor (moved to Kansas City)

In-migration~
-The only people I can think of are coworkers and industry contacts that make VP-level salaries of $130k-150k (migrated in from Texas)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 03, 2018, 11:58:25 AM
It's coming...

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on May 03, 2018, 12:05:36 PM
A slightly different picture from CA Legislative Analyst's Office
http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265

(http://lao.ca.gov/Blog/Media/Image/956)

And the income breakdowns in those.  Looks like high income in migration is from other high tax States.  Second look that isn't right.  Interesting overall migration from New York, Illinois.    Although it does look like New York in the $200K grouping is darker than the overall $200K grouping.  Maybe all the other cancel out and New York floats the bracket.

(http://lao.ca.gov/Blog/Media/Image/958)

And by age

(http://lao.ca.gov/Blog/Media/Image/959)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 11, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
Looks like the majority that are leaving are with annual income under $50k and the majority of those move in are with high income of $100k or more.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/with-no-letup-in-home-prices-the-california-exodus-surges-2018-05-03

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/05/01/Photos/ZH/MW-GI343_ca_mig_20180501170723_ZH.jpg?uuid=a48ffc64-4d83-11e8-9a10-ac162d7bc1f7)

This is how pricing acts as a sorting mechanism in economics.  Only those who can afford real estate (own or rent) are moving in, and those who can no longer afford it are leading the charge out.

I've seen it in my personal life:

Outmigration~
-my renters of 7 years that combined maybe made $100k (moved to Oregon)
-two different couples of friends where the husbands have blue collar professions and the wives have service/teaching jobs (moved to Oregon and Texas)
-cousin who wants to stay home with the kids and live in a 3,500 sqft house, while her husband works as a college professor (moved to Kansas City)

In-migration~
-The only people I can think of are coworkers and industry contacts that make VP-level salaries of $130k-150k (migrated in from Texas)


That is very interesting, so who will be left in CA for the lower paying service jobs (retail/hotel/teachers) and blue collar jobs?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Kings on May 11, 2018, 05:13:35 PM
Looks like the majority that are leaving are with annual income under $50k and the majority of those move in are with high income of $100k or more.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/with-no-letup-in-home-prices-the-california-exodus-surges-2018-05-03

(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/05/01/Photos/ZH/MW-GI343_ca_mig_20180501170723_ZH.jpg?uuid=a48ffc64-4d83-11e8-9a10-ac162d7bc1f7)

This is how pricing acts as a sorting mechanism in economics.  Only those who can afford real estate (own or rent) are moving in, and those who can no longer afford it are leading the charge out.

I've seen it in my personal life:

Outmigration~
-my renters of 7 years that combined maybe made $100k (moved to Oregon)
-two different couples of friends where the husbands have blue collar professions and the wives have service/teaching jobs (moved to Oregon and Texas)
-cousin who wants to stay home with the kids and live in a 3,500 sqft house, while her husband works as a college professor (moved to Kansas City)

In-migration~
-The only people I can think of are coworkers and industry contacts that make VP-level salaries of $130k-150k (migrated in from Texas)


That is very interesting, so who will be left in CA for the lower paying service jobs (retail/hotel/teachers) and blue collar jobs?

illegal aliens and "dreamers"
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Kangen.Irvine on May 11, 2018, 09:32:46 PM
I’m sure the teachers love being grouped here, but the statement is realistic.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 23, 2018, 01:16:52 PM
Chipotle moving *to* California:

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/23/chipotle-to-move-headquarters-to-california.html

Quote
Nearly a quarter century after its founding in Denver, Chipotle Mexican Grill is moving its headquarters to Newport Beach, California.

(thanks qwerpotle!)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on May 23, 2018, 02:37:19 PM
Chipotle moving *to* California:

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/23/chipotle-to-move-headquarters-to-california.html

Quote
Nearly a quarter century after its founding in Denver, Chipotle Mexican Grill is moving its headquarters to Newport Beach, California.

(thanks qwerpotle!)

The article hints that they are looking to poach talent from Taco Bell's HQ.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Kings on May 23, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
Chipotle moving *to* California:

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/23/chipotle-to-move-headquarters-to-california.html

Quote
Nearly a quarter century after its founding in Denver, Chipotle Mexican Grill is moving its headquarters to Newport Beach, California.

(thanks qwerpotle!)

The article hints that they are looking to poach talent from Taco Bell's HQ.

Burritowars: SoCal Salsa
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
Chipotle moving *to* California:

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/23/chipotle-to-move-headquarters-to-california.html

Quote
Nearly a quarter century after its founding in Denver, Chipotle Mexican Grill is moving its headquarters to Newport Beach, California.

(thanks qwerpotle!)

The article hints that they are looking to poach talent from Taco Bell's HQ.

Burritowars: SoCal Salsa

Let’s get it on!  ;)

Del Taco HQ (Lake Forest)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2018, 04:32:31 PM
El Pollo Loco HQ
Costa Mesa
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 23, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
Considering their $$$ guacamole upcharge it's no wonder they picked NBP as their HQ.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Happiness on May 23, 2018, 04:59:17 PM
Considering their $$$ guacamole upcharge it's no wonder they picked NBP as their HQ.

My .02c
But the deadly viruses and bacteria are free of charge at Chipotle.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on May 23, 2018, 05:10:44 PM
Considering their $$$ guacamole upcharge it's no wonder they picked NBP as their HQ.

My .02c

I agree.. It's ridiculous.  I never order the guac when I'm there.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 23, 2018, 06:17:28 PM
Considering their $$$ guacamole upcharge it's no wonder they picked NBP as their HQ.

My .02c

I agree.. It's ridiculous.  I never order the guac when I'm there.

I hate guac so I never worry about ordering it.  haha
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 23, 2018, 06:29:54 PM
OK, so since April 2014 when this thread started one major corporation has moved here...that’s nice.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 23, 2018, 06:43:09 PM
Burrito Battle!

Taco Tussle!

Quesadilla Quarrel!

And since 2014 I believe number of jobs in California have been rising.

#muchado
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2018, 09:42:21 PM
Miguel’s Jr HQ
Corona
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 05, 2018, 01:15:01 PM
So smart its stupid!!!

California moves toward corporate gender quotas, ignoring Norway's failure
Critics says Senate Bill 826 will hasten exodus of California firms to Texas

Supporters of California’s move toward the nation’s first-ever corporate gender quotas have insisted the bill will be good for business, but that’s not what happened in Norway.

After the Norwegian Parliament required that women make up 40 percent of publicly traded corporate boards in 2006, stock prices plunged and firm values dropped as boards added less experienced female directors, while the numbers of public firms decreased and private companies increased.

Many Norwegian companies have apparently moved, collapsed or gone private. The number of public limited firms in Norway by 2009 was less than 70 percent of the number in 2001, according to the study, while the number of privately held firms not subject to the gender quotas jumped by more than 30 percent.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/4/california-eyes-corporate-gender-quotas-despite-no/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/4/california-eyes-corporate-gender-quotas-despite-no/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Kings on September 05, 2018, 01:55:32 PM
So smart its stupid!!!

California moves toward corporate gender quotas, ignoring Norway's failure
Critics says Senate Bill 826 will hasten exodus of California firms to Texas

Supporters of California’s move toward the nation’s first-ever corporate gender quotas have insisted the bill will be good for business, but that’s not what happened in Norway.

After the Norwegian Parliament required that women make up 40 percent of publicly traded corporate boards in 2006, stock prices plunged and firm values dropped as boards added less experienced female directors, while the numbers of public firms decreased and private companies increased.

Many Norwegian companies have apparently moved, collapsed or gone private. The number of public limited firms in Norway by 2009 was less than 70 percent of the number in 2001, according to the study, while the number of privately held firms not subject to the gender quotas jumped by more than 30 percent.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/4/california-eyes-corporate-gender-quotas-despite-no/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/4/california-eyes-corporate-gender-quotas-despite-no/)

no problem - we will just see more male board members who identify as women
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on September 06, 2018, 01:45:10 AM
That's insane.  Our state is getting more and more libtarded. 

(No, not all liberals are libtards.  California liberals, though, are becoming libtards.)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on September 06, 2018, 06:19:08 AM
That's insane.  Our state is getting more and more libtarded. 

(No, not all liberals are libtards.  California liberals, though, are becoming libtards.)

Hey man , you are back. But I have to say , you are still stuck w the hate lingo from 10 years ago . Wish I could help you upgrade it but maybe consult your church pastor this Sunday on this topic .

On a different note - I sincerely hope you didn’t hurt yourself burning all those Nike shoes and cutting off the logos from your socks :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on September 06, 2018, 10:57:27 AM
Hey man , you are back. But I have to say , you are still stuck w the hate lingo from 10 years ago . Wish I could help you upgrade it but maybe consult your church pastor this Sunday on this topic .

LOL at your level of butthurt and hatred there.  I think you have me mixed up with someone else.  I must have really triggered you in the past, for you to hold on to that for so long, but you probably have me mixed up with some other members here as well.  I'm both atheist and somewhat liberal on the political maps.  Unlike many others in California, though, I haven't gone full libtard.

I don't hate people for being stupid.  I feel sorry for them, if anything.  The term describes them perfectly well.  I'll tell you what, though.  I'll consider your recommendation for a new term to describe the particular liberals that have gone full retard.  No promises that I'll use it, though.  Make it a good one.

"From 10 years ago" -  I bet you feel proud of that...  Did you give yourself a high five?  Isn't that style of burn from like 20 years ago?  Just saying... irony there...  "The year 2000 called, it want's your style of burn back".  meh

Maybe that's a flaw in my personality, but I don't back down to bullies.

On a different note - I sincerely hope you didn’t hurt yourself burning all those Nike shoes and cutting off the logos from your socks :)
Why would I do that?  Oh, I see, you have groupthink mentality. 

But seriously, instead of the personal ad hominem attacks and logical fallacies, instead of trying to bully people here, why don't you contribute to the conversation?  Are you here to attack other members?  Why not state your stance on the law.  Should we assume you support it 100% based on your personal attack?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on September 06, 2018, 02:26:14 PM
No I did not confuse you with anyone else — I know a frustrated Republican living and fuming  in California when I see one : )

Good to know this forum still serves as therapy for you . Enjoy your rants ...  atleast you upgraded to LOL , I recall there was a time when you were upset at the people who used it !

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on September 06, 2018, 02:33:31 PM
fortune11 is using classic troll techniques here to try to draw out a response.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on September 06, 2018, 02:51:48 PM
fortune11 is using classic troll techniques here to try to draw out a response.

What is a classic troll technique  ?  Maybe you can educate us since you know so well about it  :)

I logically refuted your Mexico trade “win “question
 with elaborate analysis  - to which you had no answer to

I disproved your bond bubble argument step by step  and I was proven right over the subsequent months since you first posted those “out there” links .

Thing is I don’t pretend to be a know it all like you do but rely on logic and data . I also don’t paste throwaway links from clickbait sites as a crutch over posting original thoughts.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Ready2Downsize on September 06, 2018, 03:35:05 PM
fortune11 is using classic troll techniques here to try to draw out a response.

What is a classic troll technique  ?  Maybe you can educate us since you know so well about it  :)



http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

You are really very good.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on September 06, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
fortune11 is using classic troll techniques here to try to draw out a response.

What is a classic troll technique  ?  Maybe you can educate us since you know so well about it  :)



http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

You are really very good.

Oh I get it — heaven forbid , anyone disturb the sanctity of this right wing “safe space”

You have to have blinders on to find my post offensive over that posted by spootieho , but that’s what an echo chamber is

Now let’s look up that definition :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: spootieho on September 06, 2018, 05:04:58 PM
LOL...  The level of hypocrisy in that troll is at max.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: fortune11 on September 06, 2018, 06:17:45 PM
LOL...  The level of hypocrisy in that troll is at max.

Use of the cool LOL again ? See how your vocabulary already improved hanging out w me .  It’s all part of God’s plan,  don’t fight it : )
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: lnc on June 25, 2019, 11:29:26 AM
Now Mitsubishi is moving out of CA..

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/mitsubishi-will-move-hq-nashville-calif-be-near-nissan

Quote
Mitsubishi Motors North America will move its U.S. headquarters from Southern California to Franklin, Tenn., by the end of the year, joining the North American arm of alliance partner and controlling shareholder Nissan Motor Co. in the Nashville suburb.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on June 25, 2019, 11:33:42 AM
But it’s only Mitsubishi. jkjk
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 25, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
Anywhere but here...

Stanley Black & Decker Announces Opening of New CRAFTSMAN Plant in Fort Worth, Texas

Stanley Black & Decker (NYSE: SWK) today announced it will expand its U.S. manufacturing footprint with a new CRAFTSMAN manufacturing plant in Fort Worth, TX. The groundbreaking for the 425,000-square-foot facility will take place in summer 2019, and the plant is expected to be completed in late 2020.

The new plant in Fort Worth will manufacture a wide range of CRAFTSMAN mechanics tools, including sockets, ratchets, wrenches and general sets. The plant will also leverage some of the most advanced manufacturing technologies available to optimize productivity and sustainability, including pre-flattening steel technologies to improve material yield by almost 25 percent, as well as water and energy management technologies to reduce resource consumption. The Fort Worth plant will employ approximately 500 full-time employees to support the facility.

https://www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/article/stanley-black-decker-announces-opening-new-craftsman-plant-fort-worth-texas (https://www.stanleyblackanddecker.com/article/stanley-black-decker-announces-opening-new-craftsman-plant-fort-worth-texas)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 25, 2019, 12:36:51 PM
First Honda went to Tenn., now Toyota to Texas.  In 5 years Hyundai's tax credits will expire and they will also flee....dooomed

Yah, i know, it was Nissan not Honda, but 5 years is almost up...think Hyundai is next?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Compressed-Village on June 25, 2019, 05:32:38 PM
Hyundai, recently openned its new HQ in Fountain Valley with fan-fair ribbons cutting. Morekaos is speculating again.


The tax incentive is a partial equation to moving out. Look at Amazon pulled out from Queens, even as it going to get all the incentives. Its more than that.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on June 25, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
Amazon was bullied out of Queens by Smith.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 25, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Wouldn't Huyndai also need to move Kia as well? Yes, the tax credits are not conjoined by both companies but if one left, the other would likely follow.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on November 25, 2019, 12:50:11 PM
Bye bye Chuck...another great biz started in Cali but now off to better places...nice knowin ya...


Charles Schwab to move its headquarters to North Texas after Ameritrade deal closes

Charles Schwab Corp. is making Westlake its new headquarters.

The big announcement came Monday after the San Francisco-based brokerage company announced it had acquired TD Ameritrade for a deal valued at about $26 billion.

Once the deal closes for Ameritrade, Schwab’s corporate headquarters will relocate to its new headquarters in Westlake, in northeast Tarrant County.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article237751949.html (https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article237751949.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: aquabliss on November 25, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
Westlake/Trophy Club is a very nice area, visited some friends there earlier this year.  You can still get a beautiful new home for $600-$700k, and much cheaper if you're willing to drive a bit. 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 03, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
So we lose a congressional seat and Texas gains....THREE?  What does that tell ya?

California could lose a congressional district following 2020 census count

A 2019 relocation study by Texas Realtors found that 63,175 Californians moved to Texas in 2017

Texas is likely to gain three seats following the 2020 decennial count, according to Frey’s analysis of census data, while states such as Arizona, Colorado and Oregon may gain one seat apiece.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-31/la-me-ln-california-apportionment-2020-census (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-12-31/la-me-ln-california-apportionment-2020-census)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 07, 2020, 06:22:08 PM
Bye bye Coors and 500 jobs....enjoy your facilities and income in Texas!!

Molson Coors to close California brewery, offers Pabst Brewing the option to buy


Molson Coors Beverage Co. will cease production at its Irwindale, California, brewery by September of 2020 and entered into an agreement with Pabst Brewing Co. giving Pabst the option to purchase the facility.

Molson Coors said the Irwindale products will be transitioned to other breweries, primarily in Golden, Colorado, and Fort Worth, Texas.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2020/01/06/molson-coors-to-close-california-brewery-offers.html (http://.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2020/01/06/molson-coors-to-close-california-brewery-offers.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 11, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
It's incremental but yes, we can take back our great state.  All journeys begin with a first step...

Had Enough? Californians Turn Down Higher Taxes, Debt
California residents pay some the nation's highest taxes on gas, clothing and the money they earn — and those revenues have contributed to a massive state budget surplus.

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Everyone knows that living in California comes with a price: Its residents pay some of the nation’s highest taxes on the money they earn, the gas they pump and the clothes they wear. But for the moment, at least, it appears voters have had enough.

The defeat Tuesday of the largest borrowing proposal in the history of California schools — $15 billion for repairs — has opened the question of whether Californian voters put a temporary halt to the growth of government debt because of the unsettled political scene, or because they are on the cusp of a tax revolt akin to one in the 1970s that brought landmark changes to property taxes.

By itself, the crash of the question on the March 3 primary ballot was striking — it’s been a generation since a state school bond failed and there was no telling moment prior to the election indicating voters had soured on it.

But it didn’t stop there. Voters rejected more than half of the 237 local tax and bond measures on that ballot, with several dozen contests still undecided as California authorities wade through hundreds of thousands of uncounted ballots, according to a tally by the California Taxpayers Association.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-03-11/had-enough-californians-turn-down-higher-taxes-debt (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-03-11/had-enough-californians-turn-down-higher-taxes-debt)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 11, 2020, 01:37:24 PM
Yep. I always vote no on taxes. Lost in the Irvine one but made up for it in the Cali one.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on March 11, 2020, 11:04:31 PM
Wow, I didn't even check the results for this ballot measure... I just assumed it had passed! 

This is very interesting because Dems had a competitive primary and Republicans didn't.  That should have favored the bond measure passing by an even a higher percentage due to increased Democratic turnout.  Sanders won big in California, so there should have been plenty of liberal Dems skewing the results in favor of 'yes' on new taxes.  Do you think they were confused and believed that by voting 'no' on Prop 13 that they were repealing the 1978 law?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 25, 2020, 10:50:04 AM
Score one for Cali! Rivian moving jobs to California (specifically Irvine):

https://insideevs.com/news/430727/rivian-move-out-michigan-move-in-california/

Quote
Currently, Rivian calls Plymouth, Michigan its design and engineering hub, while Irvine focuses on 'Battery Systems, Vehicle Dynamics, and Customer Experience.' However, if you visit the company's LinkedIn page, it lists Irvine as its location. The company currently has eight locations; six are domestic, with four in California. In addition, of the company's 2,300 employees, about 1,000 are in California and 750 work in Michigan.

According to recent reports, Rivian will keep moving forward with its Michigan projects, however, new programs and operations will be housed at the Irvine facility. This is an effort by Rivian to consolidate its tech resources in a central location.

Maybe I should look them up for a job. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: akkord on June 25, 2020, 11:14:38 AM
One of my buddies leased out some of their commercial property to Rivian in the area a few months ago. Wonder if they'll hook him up with discounts.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 13, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
And the hits just keep on comin....



More people are leaving California than ever before, driven out by worsening wildfires, politics and the skyrocketing cost of living


More people are leaving California than arriving, driven out by worsening wildfires, power outages and the skyrocketing cost of living
In 2018 more than 86,000 people left California for Texas, nearly 70,000 left for Arizona and about 55,000 left for Washington
Between 2007 and 2016, some 5million residents moved to California and 6million people moved out to other states
According to a poll locals say they consider leaving due to the high cost of housing, heavy taxation, or political culture

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8727961/More-people-leaving-California-wildfires-high-costs-politics.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8727961/More-people-leaving-California-wildfires-high-costs-politics.html)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 13, 2020, 09:25:15 PM
See ya!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 14, 2020, 08:05:21 AM
See Ya Tax Base!!  My neighbor, long time resident and his son, also born and raised in the area are putting up their houses.  One $4 million dollar water front and a $2 million off the water house.  Moving to Bozeman Montana.  These are California natives, born and raised here.  Moving business with them too.  Just sick of the California's business unfriendly environment, over regulation and taxes along with the rising lawlessness.  That is truly sad that we lose these vibrant long time contributors to our state because of bad policy and a hostile business environment.  These are the citizens and tax payers we should encourage but blind bureaucrats don't see it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: momopi on September 14, 2020, 08:49:51 AM

With the COVID-19 situation some companies have offered permanent remote work positions.  One of my former coworkers negotiated for his position (IT) to work remotely and is in the process of selling his house here and moving to WA with no state income tax.  He thinks he will save about $25K annually on taxes.  Suburban homes are about 1/2 the price vs OC and WA State Constitution caps property tax at 1% (with some exceptions).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 14, 2020, 10:11:22 AM
See Ya Tax Base!!  My neighbor, long time resident and his son, also born and raised in the area are putting up their houses.  One $4 million dollar water front and a $2 million off the water house.  Moving to Bozeman Montana.  These are California natives, born and raised here.  Moving business with them too.  Just sick of the California's business unfriendly environment, over regulation and taxes along with the rising lawlessness.  That is truly sad that we lose these vibrant long time contributors to our state because of bad policy and a hostile business environment.  These are the citizens and tax payers we should encourage but blind bureaucrats don't see it.


As I have said before in this thread, there are more coming in than leaving... I'm sure their decision to leave is not purely due to business. Even without the regulation and taxes, sounds like they want to enjoy a more country lifestyle.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 14, 2020, 10:19:31 AM
See Ya Tax Base!!  My neighbor, long time resident and his son, also born and raised in the area are putting up their houses.  One $4 million dollar water front and a $2 million off the water house.  Moving to Bozeman Montana.  These are California natives, born and raised here.  Moving business with them too.  Just sick of the California's business unfriendly environment, over regulation and taxes along with the rising lawlessness.  That is truly sad that we lose these vibrant long time contributors to our state because of bad policy and a hostile business environment.  These are the citizens and tax payers we should encourage but blind bureaucrats don't see it.


As I have said before in this thread, there are more coming in than leaving... I'm sure their decision to leave is not purely due to business. Even without the regulation and taxes, sounds like they want to enjoy a more country lifestyle.


That is certainly not what they say...they would rather stay but this place is getting untenable...they hit a breaking point.  They are not alone. I have at least 5 clients currently looking for the exits. I have had dozens leave over the last 5 years.  All natives, all sick of it. None really wanted to go. Wait till Newsome announces his budget for next year...they will be shocked, shocked at that unexpected shortfall in revenue...then what do you think will happen?  Massive tax increases on "The Rich" (really all of us left) ...here it comes!!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: bones on September 14, 2020, 10:51:39 AM

As I have said before in this thread, there are more coming in than leaving... I'm sure their decision to leave is not purely due to business. Even without the regulation and taxes, sounds like they want to enjoy a more country lifestyle.


Is that statement true?

https://www.ksbw.com/article/more-americans-leaving-california-than-ever-before/30905768#
"Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million residents moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents. People making $55,000 or less a year were mostly moving out of California between 2007 and 2016, the report found, while people making more than $200,000 a year moved in, according to the US Census Bureau."

So basically more Tesla bros and less Kia drivers. 

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 14, 2020, 11:17:27 AM

As I have said before in this thread, there are more coming in than leaving... I'm sure their decision to leave is not purely due to business. Even without the regulation and taxes, sounds like they want to enjoy a more country lifestyle.


Is that statement true?

https://www.ksbw.com/article/more-americans-leaving-california-than-ever-before/30905768#
"Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million residents moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents. People making $55,000 or less a year were mostly moving out of California between 2007 and 2016, the report found, while people making more than $200,000 a year moved in, according to the US Census Bureau."

So basically more Tesla bros and less Kia drivers. 



Are we referring to people or businesses? Sheer population I think Cali stagnated in 2019, as for businesses, predictors pre-covid bode well for us:

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-05/california-economy-ucla-forecast

Quote
California’s economic growth will slow next year, but it is likely to outshine that of the nation overall, as Golden State employers boost payrolls, according to a new UCLA Anderson School forecast.

[..]

California’s major population regions experienced job growth above 2% this year, except for Sacramento and Los Angeles. The U.S. outside of California experienced just 1.35% growth, the same as Los Angeles.

I guess we will see at the end of 2020 and into next year.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: bones on September 14, 2020, 11:25:20 AM

As I have said before in this thread, there are more coming in than leaving... I'm sure their decision to leave is not purely due to business. Even without the regulation and taxes, sounds like they want to enjoy a more country lifestyle.


Is that statement true?

https://www.ksbw.com/article/more-americans-leaving-california-than-ever-before/30905768#
"Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million residents moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents. People making $55,000 or less a year were mostly moving out of California between 2007 and 2016, the report found, while people making more than $200,000 a year moved in, according to the US Census Bureau."

So basically more Tesla bros and less Kia drivers. 



Are we referring to people or businesses? Sheer population I think Cali stagnated in 2019, as for businesses, predictors pre-covid bode well for us:

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-05/california-economy-ucla-forecast

Quote
California’s economic growth will slow next year, but it is likely to outshine that of the nation overall, as Golden State employers boost payrolls, according to a new UCLA Anderson School forecast.

[..]

California’s major population regions experienced job growth above 2% this year, except for Sacramento and Los Angeles. The U.S. outside of California experienced just 1.35% growth, the same as Los Angeles.

I guess we will see at the end of 2020 and into next year.

I can't read the article because paywall, but that was also preCOVID.
https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2020/06/24/californias-economic-recovery-will-take-3-years.html

So who knows what will happen business wise.
People wise, I think that trend will continue... more leaving than coming. High COL, more remote jobs, wildfires, taxes, etc, etc.  It's not easy to hack it in this state in the desirable counties - if you don't have family ties here, it's not "worth it".
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 14, 2020, 12:22:21 PM
Agreed... but just like Irvine, every hood has its warts.

Texas: Heat, less Disney amenities :), no snow, concealed carry :)... and uh... demographics?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on September 14, 2020, 02:53:32 PM
It seems higher incomes are moving in, and at smaller numbers than the lower incomes moving out.

I personally am happy to have a less crowded state with residents who are more apt to pay higher state taxes.   
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on September 14, 2020, 06:30:10 PM
It seems higher incomes are moving in, and at smaller numbers than the lower incomes moving out.

I personally am happy to have a less crowded state with residents who are more apt to pay higher state taxes.   

The problem is they will just keep coming to you for more taxes. Until they force you to move out.

We always thought we would retire in San Diego and we still may. But we are also more open now to a places with no/lower taxes.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on September 14, 2020, 08:13:41 PM
Isn't the real irony that they move to places like Pheonix, Nevada, Texas and proceed to start replicating all that evil  Gub'ment they fled?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on September 14, 2020, 08:24:12 PM
It had a lot of influence on Oregon and Washington during the great aerospace exit in the late 80’s
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: aquabliss on September 14, 2020, 08:24:29 PM
It seems higher incomes are moving in, and at smaller numbers than the lower incomes moving out.

I personally am happy to have a less crowded state with residents who are more apt to pay higher state taxes.   

The problem is they will just keep coming to you for more taxes. Until they force you to move out.

We always thought we would retire in San Diego and we still may. But we are also more open now to a places with no/lower taxes.

Wouldn't mind retiring here:
https://www.redfin.com/FL/Winter-Garden/8762-Bayview-Crossing-Dr-34787/home/113064079

Just give me a boat, a Disney World annual pass, and a diamond cruise membership and I'm good.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on September 14, 2020, 08:47:09 PM
It seems higher incomes are moving in, and at smaller numbers than the lower incomes moving out.

I personally am happy to have a less crowded state with residents who are more apt to pay higher state taxes.   

The problem is they will just keep coming to you for more taxes. Until they force you to move out.

We always thought we would retire in San Diego and we still may. But we are also more open now to a places with no/lower taxes.

Wouldn't mind retiring here:
https://www.redfin.com/FL/Winter-Garden/8762-Bayview-Crossing-Dr-34787/home/113064079

Just give me a boat, a Disney World annual pass, and a diamond cruise membership and I'm good.

Now that is a lot right there. As a retiree, I’ll be in the water (pool, beach, etc) or inside. So what and humidity won’t be much of an issue, nothing a good AC unit can’t take care of.

Aqua had convinced me - see you in Florida!!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 15, 2020, 09:17:51 AM
I need to retire in a place where I can walk/bike/play basketball outside without dying from heat/humidity.

And with Covid probably being with us forever, outdoor dining is the new normal.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on September 15, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
I need to retire in a place where I can walk/bike/play basketball outside without dying from heat/humidity.

And with Covid probably being with us forever, outdoor dining is the new normal.

No way outdoor dining will be the new normal. The winter season is going to kill restaurants if they rely on outdoor dining. Vaccines are are near and the treatments will get better as they understand the disease more.

Life back to normal 2022!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Dr. CA Real Estate on September 15, 2020, 10:17:29 AM
Now if we can just get all these people leaving to leave sooner. Could use more housing inventory
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 15, 2020, 11:05:56 AM
Now if we can just get all these people leaving to leave sooner. Could use more housing inventory

I'm with you. I want people to leave... Make California Affordable Again... MaCaAfAg!! :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on September 28, 2020, 02:22:18 AM
Jeffrey Gundlach Tells Realtors in Low-Tax States to ‘Give Me a Call’

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey-gundlach-tells-realtors-low-153210183.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 01, 2020, 08:33:52 AM
Jeffrey Gundlach Tells Realtors in Low-Tax States to ‘Give Me a Call’

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeffrey-gundlach-tells-realtors-low-153210183.html

Losing these taxpayers will hurt...Gundlach is a smart guy...

Elon Musk, Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro, to name just a few, are leaving California to escape incompetent governance. The “response” from Sacramento? Wealth and massive income tax increases on job creators (AKA “the wealthy”). Should I align with 3 smart guys, or Sacramento? Hmmm.

— Jeffrey Gundlach (@TruthGundlach)
September 26, 2020

...and with that in mind our brilliant leaders...

Taxes are likely to go up for the wealthy in these nine states

Legislators in New York, California, Massachusetts, Maryland and other states have renewed their efforts to hike taxes on high earners.
States are facing multibillion-dollar revenue shortfalls due to the costs of the coronavirus pandemic and lost revenue from shuttered businesses.
Democratic lawmakers argue that the wealthy — who have largely escaped the economic hardship of the pandemic — should pay more of the costs and help those who have suffered most.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/taxes-are-likely-to-go-up-for-the-wealthy-in-these-nine-states-.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/25/taxes-are-likely-to-go-up-for-the-wealthy-in-these-nine-states-.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Compressed-Village on October 01, 2020, 08:40:43 AM
Can run but can’t hide.

It will follows the rich wherever they land. Pay up to 10 years or a decade of payment without the weather benefits.

That is NOT fair.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/2020/08/18/california-lawmakers-want-a-wealth-tax-to-soak-the-rich-for-living-there-also-for-leaving/%3famp
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 01, 2020, 09:01:56 AM
It's actually a bad thing for the states who take in these "California tax/social issue refugees". These expats want the same perks of a spend, spend, spend government but refuse to pay for it by hiding their wealth in a low taxation state. Eventually California refugees will begin changing local, then state political views over time, bringing blue state values to red states they fled to - only without the $$$$$$ to pay for their imported nonsense. Californians will continue ruining what was a better run state government when they arrived - Texas being a prime example. 20 years ago if anyone in Austin suggested defunding the police, they would be railroaded out of town. Today, you are warned with billboards by the police unions that "you're on your own" and the State has threatened to intervene with their troopers to re-inforce law and order.

With so many imports from other states, these kinds of ideas are now considered acceptable by a majority. My guess is if you took a poll of Texans, Georgians, Montanan's or Floridians and compared "born and raised in state" views to those arriving within the last 10 years, you'd see a pretty wide divide in opinions on many issues. I'm old enough to remember when those in Idaho and Oregonian's would put up signs asking people not to sell homes to Californian's (Mid 1980's). Ask someone in Portland how things have changed since the late 1980's - if you can still find someone considered a "local". It's pretty clear from what we can see today via the news how things there have gone from good, to bad, to worse.


My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 01, 2020, 09:09:25 AM
Idaho already hates us, just like Washington/Oregon did in the 80's-90's and how Arizona/Nevada did in the 90's-00's.  Now its Texas/Idaho/Montana's turn.

‘Go back to California’: Wave of newcomers fuels backlash in Boise

BOISE, Idaho —  This city sure knows how to roll up the welcome mat — that is, if you happen to move here from California.
Just consider last week’s mayoral election. It was the most competitive race in recent memory, a referendum on growth in the rapidly expanding capital of Idaho. And candidate Wayne Richey ran on a very simple platform: Stop the California invasion.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-10/go-back-to-california-wave-of-newcomers-fuels-backlash-in-boise (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-10/go-back-to-california-wave-of-newcomers-fuels-backlash-in-boise)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on October 09, 2020, 01:27:02 PM
It's actually a bad thing for the states who take in these "California tax/social issue refugees". These expats want the same perks of a spend, spend, spend government but refuse to pay for it by hiding their wealth in a low taxation state. Eventually California refugees will begin changing local, then state political views over time, bringing blue state values to red states they fled to - only without the $$$$$$ to pay for their imported nonsense. Californians will continue ruining what was a better run state government when they arrived - Texas being a prime example. 20 years ago if anyone in Austin suggested defunding the police, they would be railroaded out of town. Today, you are warned with billboards by the police unions that "you're on your own" and the State has threatened to intervene with their troopers to re-inforce law and order.

What are these "mythic" perks of living in a high tax & spend state? 

Our education system is near the bottom... Roads and traffic are not very good... High crime, high homelessness... DMV lines 5 hours long.  The ROI on our money has to be one of the worst in the nation.

The perks of living here are the weather, geography, and world class cultural institutions... none of which our taxes actually go towards paying for.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 09, 2020, 01:32:37 PM
It's actually a bad thing for the states who take in these "California tax/social issue refugees". These expats want the same perks of a spend, spend, spend government but refuse to pay for it by hiding their wealth in a low taxation state. Eventually California refugees will begin changing local, then state political views over time, bringing blue state values to red states they fled to - only without the $$$$$$ to pay for their imported nonsense. Californians will continue ruining what was a better run state government when they arrived - Texas being a prime example. 20 years ago if anyone in Austin suggested defunding the police, they would be railroaded out of town. Today, you are warned with billboards by the police unions that "you're on your own" and the State has threatened to intervene with their troopers to re-inforce law and order.

What are these "mythic" perks of living in a high tax & spend state? 

Our education system is near the bottom... Roads and traffic are not very good... High crime, high homelessness... DMV lines 5 hours long.  The ROI on our money has to be one of the worst in the nation.

The perks of living here are the weather, geography, and world class cultural institutions... none of which our taxes actually go towards paying for.

But you were wrong about Kapernick.
Maga = covid jkjk
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on October 09, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Are you okay liar? Cough cough
My eye is not pink. It’s an allergy.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: aquabliss on October 09, 2020, 02:14:35 PM
Biggest perk of CA is the weather and the food.  I’ve been to many other places where they say “ya you can get the same Vietnamese food, same sushi, same Mexican food”... nope, it’s never as good and plentiful as it is in OC.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 09, 2020, 04:19:45 PM
It really won't matter much more where corporations move within the United States. We're all headed towards a "work from home" world. Next phase will likely be when major corporations all become Cayman Island holding companies.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/microsofts-work-from-home-to-become-permanent  (https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/microsofts-work-from-home-to-become-permanent)

Commercial lease and/or purchase rates to collapses in 3, 2, 1.....


My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on October 26, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Bye bye Gulf Stream and your selfish 700 jobs...have fun in Texas and Georgia....good luck with that!! The coyotes  need the acreage back around the airport anyway...they were here first!!!

Gulfstream to leave Long Beach, taking about 700 jobs with it


The company has made significant investments in new facilities in Florida, Texas and England as well as expanding its facilities in Savannah, Georgia—where it is headquartered—Appleton, Wisconsin, and Van Nuys.

“By leveraging these newer, more modern locations and synergies across the network, we can further enhance the overall experience for our customers, whether they’re taking delivery of a new aircraft or scheduling service,” President Mark Burns said in a statement.

https://lbpost.com/news/gulfstream-to-leave-long-beach-taking-about-700-jobs-with-it?fbclid=IwAR0PjRRu-MZ3Uw9IP55v7PPEu1UScCYuilVORqZqPh4Us1TmFEa1qpxaRUg (https://lbpost.com/news/gulfstream-to-leave-long-beach-taking-about-700-jobs-with-it?fbclid=IwAR0PjRRu-MZ3Uw9IP55v7PPEu1UScCYuilVORqZqPh4Us1TmFEa1qpxaRUg)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 09:01:19 AM
It just gets better and better....

Blue State, Red Tape
California is shedding residents and businesses.

Nor is the California exodus limited to desperate residents. Joe Vranich, a relocation specialist once headquartered in Irvine, California, but now settled in Pennsylvania, has been tracking business departures since 2008. Vranich says that he became “irritated by repeated comments from California politicians, including governor Jerry Brown, that business departures . . . were not a big deal.” As he analyzed the companies, jobs, and capital fleeing the state, he realized the drain was significant. The state’s toxic business environment, Vranich estimates, caused as many as 13,000 “disinvestment events” from 2008 to 2016.

Data-analytics software company Palantir is among the firms to announce more recently that it is leaving California. CNBC characterized its decision to relocate from Palo Alto to Denver as “one of the first signals that a long-anticipated exodus from Silicon Valley is on the horizon.” Hewlett-Packard, a garage-band Silicon Valley original, recently announced that it would move its global headquarters to Texas, seeking “opportunities for cost savings,” while accommodating “team members’ preferences about the future of work.”

https://www.city-journal.org/blue-state-regulation-driving-out-california-businesses (https://www.city-journal.org/blue-state-regulation-driving-out-california-businesses)

Real Business along with their real revinue are leaving and the pandemic is only accelerating the process...

Elon Musk moves his private foundation to Texas amid rumors he's moving there after clashes with the California lawmakers over COVID shutdowns

Billionaire Elon Musk, 49, reportedly moved his private Musk Foundation from California to Austin, Texas in October
Last week rumors emerged that he was telling friends he's moving to Texas
His companies Tesla and SpaceX have bases in Texas and are expanding there
Musk put seven California properties worth $137million up for sale in May
Earlier this year he clashed with California and Alameda County officials over the shut down of Tesla factories due to the pandemic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9027927/Elon-Musk-moves-private-foundation-California-Texas.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9027927/Elon-Musk-moves-private-foundation-California-Texas.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 09:06:18 AM
We Rock!!..isn't the weather great?  Everyone wants to live here!!...

Founding Fathers of Silicon Valley Give Up on California, Move to Texas

The company reported $7.21 billion in earnings in the fourth quarter, which now will not replenish California’s tax stockpiles. No one is being fired in this move.

The pandemic is giving companies a good reason to get out of the California gulag.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/12/05/founding-fathers-of-silicon-valley-give-up-on-california-move-to-texas-n1193826 (https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/12/05/founding-fathers-of-silicon-valley-give-up-on-california-move-to-texas-n1193826)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Cornflakes on December 08, 2020, 10:20:02 AM
NO biggie.

Cost of operating in CA is growing at certain clip. HP is kind of fading company and one could see that they business and profitability may be growing at slower pace. makes business sense to move out and operate more economically. Free up the spot for a company that is up and coming and growing at faster pace than CA costs.

Gentrification of silicone valley long-termers (companies).
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 11:55:57 AM
$7,200,000,000  in recurring taxable income is not easily replaced by the implanted microchip ap company growing its earnings at a blistering 100% pace by selling $2.00 this year up from $1.00 last year.  Arrogance and hubris will just accelerate the collapse.  Gotta recognize you have a problem and ask for help before you can recover.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 11:58:51 AM
$7,200,000,000  in recurring taxable income is not easily replaced by the implanted microchip ap company growing its earnings at a blistering 100% pace by selling $2.00 this year up from $1.00 last year.  Arrogance and hubris will just accelerate the collapse.  Gotta recognize you have a problem and ask for help before you can recover.

Eh... so what's the solve here? A Republican governor? :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:02:44 PM
NO biggie.

Cost of operating in CA is growing at certain clip. HP is kind of fading company and one could see that they business and profitability may be growing at slower pace. makes business sense to move out and operate more economically. Free up the spot for a company that is up and coming and growing at faster pace than CA costs.

Gentrification of silicone valley long-termers (companies).

They can keep HP.  Get out of here!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
When Chipotle came back to California. (I want to say Newport Beach)
The company did a turn around.

California is like the food capital.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 12:08:30 PM
When Chipotle came back to California. (I want to say Newport Beach)
The company did a turn around.

California is like the food capital.

Really?  Ask any restaurant owner if that is true today...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Food Related Companies based in California:
Chipotle
In n Out
Panda Express
CpK
Yorgurtland
Instacart
El pollo loco
Blaze Pizza
Monster drink
Yoshinoya

These are food that we love/like and enjoy. The purpose is to show how many corporate food companies are located in California. There are a lot more.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:28:40 PM
I know and I am sure everybody knows top companies are connecting with top schools for talent.
It is so easy to connect in California.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 12:42:19 PM
Hewlett-Packard does more revenue than all those companies.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
Hewlett-Packard does more revenue than all those companies.

Again, bye bye HP. No one is crying on TI.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 12:53:01 PM
Hold up how do you know HP does more revenue than In-N-Out. In n out is private.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 12:59:13 PM
Hold up how do you know HP does more revenue than In-N-Out. In n out is private.

$7,200,000,000.00 is a lot of hamburgers...too many for even In N Out.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 01:07:16 PM
Hewlett-Packard does more revenue than all those companies.

Again, bye bye HP. No one is crying on TI.

You may not cry but the state coffers sure are. You can't just up and replace that kind of tax revenue.  It would take 10 In-N-Outs just to plug the hole HP just blew in the state budget...dollars and cents, Eye...Dollars and sense
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 01:14:12 PM
Hewlett-Packard does more revenue than all those companies.

Again, bye bye HP. No one is crying on TI.

You may not cry but the state coffers sure are. You can't just up and replace that kind of tax revenue.  It would take 10 In-N-Outs just to plug the hole HP just blew in the state budget...dollars and cents, Eye...Dollars and sense

I have no affiliation with in n out. But many love the burgers!

People are fighting at new location in Colorado. (so popular)

When is the last time someone fought over an HP printer? (maybe like 10 plus years or never?)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 01:25:52 PM
Doesn't matter Eye.  How good their food is not the issue here. In-N-out is lucky if it does a Billion in revenue.  HP DOES over $7 billion in revenue.  You cannot compare the two. Any fool would prefer to tax 7 billion over 1.  Truth is Planatir just also moved out of Cali and took that Billion in revenue with it too.  The bucket has so many holes you just can't plug them all....need a new bucket.

Why Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale is leaving Silicon Valley

Joe Lonsdale is moving the headquarters of 8VC, his venture firm, from San Francisco to Austin, Texas.
Palantir, the software company he co-founded in 2003, said in August that it was leaving Silicon Valley for Denver.
Lonsdale acknowledged that California’s high tax rate was one of the reasons he considered the move to Texas, which has no state income tax.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/06/palantir-co-founder-joe-lonsdale-leaving-silicon-valley.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/06/palantir-co-founder-joe-lonsdale-leaving-silicon-valley.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
The article says "$7.21 billion earnings"... not taxable income.

Do you know if that's gross? EBITDA?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 01:32:29 PM
EBITDA $4,200,000,000.00
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
Previously in the news they did offshore tax havens. Allegedly idk
So maybe it does not matter.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 01:45:18 PM
EBITDA $4,200,000,000.00

And of that, what is taxable? Or does HP pull an Amazon and pays very little taxes? Context needed.

I think I found it... your numbers are off, $7.2B is just 4th quarter expected revenue, annual is $56.4B.

But... pretax annual income is $3.23B and in previous years, it looks like their tax was negative so not sure what that means.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/HPQ/financials

You're just like a tabloid man... a purple fonted one.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 01:49:50 PM
Previously in the news they did offshore tax havens. Allegedly idk
So maybe it does not matter.


You think that is bad Eye?  Look at the restaurant biz...Chipotle does around $6 billion in revenue but has an EBITDA of around $500 million.  Restaurants write off tons of plant equipment and depreciation.  Not really good tax payers so your examples , although well known, don't really pay a  lot of taxes anyway.  These Big companies that are leaving (Toyota, Chevron, Hewlett and now maybe Tesla) pay tons in taxes,  They are not easily replaced by start ups and venture cap firms.  Cali has real built in problems right now that are not addressed by the current regime, in fact they only are making it worse.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 01:50:14 PM
EBITDA $4,200,000,000.00

And of that, what is taxable? Or does HP pull an Amazon and pays very little taxes? Context needed.

I think I found it... your numbers are off, $7.2B is just 4th quarter expected revenue, annual is $56.4B.

But... pretax annual income is $3.23B and in previous years, it looks like their tax was negative so not sure what that means.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/HPQ/financials

You're just like a tabloid man... a purple fonted one.

Type offshore and the company name. Idk
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 01:51:32 PM
Previously in the news they did offshore tax havens. Allegedly idk
So maybe it does not matter.


You think that is bad Eye?  Look at the restaurant biz...Chipotle does around $6 billion in revenue but has an EBITDA of around $500 million.  Restaurants write off tons of plant equipment and depreciation.  Not really good tax payers so your examples , although well known, don't really pay a  lot of taxes anyway.  These Big companies that are leaving (Toyota, Chevron, Hewlett and now maybe Tesla) pay tons in taxes,  They are not easily replaced by start ups and venture cap firms.  Cali has real built in problems right now that are not addressed by the current regime, in fact they only are making it worse.

We are not talking about p&l. We are taking like paying no taxes at all.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 08, 2020, 01:55:00 PM
One thing the headlines don’t discuss because it isn’t a good headline is that taxable income gets apportioned to different states/countries so while a company is headquartered here in CA they probably are not paying taxes on all of the taxable income in CA. It may be a much lower % of taxable income (google, etc).  Also the the GAAP pretax income which is what companies report in their financials can be significantly different than taxable income for the purpose of the companies tax returns.

With that said, these companies leaving CA is not a good thing. California just happens to have a lot of them that when each one leaves it’s not felt as much. But eventually it will add up if they are not replaced. Putting aside the taxable income in CA these companies still generate a lot of economic activity aside from just taxes so in general it’s not good that they are leaving
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 08, 2020, 02:03:28 PM
I think the chipotle turnaround was more that they hired the Taco Bell ceo. He moved the company back from Denver to Newport. I’m guessing if they stayed out in Denver the results would have been the same.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
...additionally these companies employ hundreds of thousands in our state.  Those people and jobs pay income taxes.  When they leave they take those jobs and all that revenue with them.  Its not just Bye Buy Hewlett or Chevron...its Bye Bye employees and all the peripheral business they genterate.!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 02:11:00 PM
I think the chipotle turnaround was more that they hired the Taco Bell ceo. He moved the company back from Denver to Newport. I’m guessing if they stayed out in Denver the results would have been the same.

Always pushing Taco Bell. You are like Panda. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 02:13:40 PM
With that said, these companies leaving CA is not a good thing. California just happens to have a lot of them that when each one leaves it’s not felt as much. But eventually it will add up if they are not replaced. Putting aside the taxable income in CA these companies still generate a lot of economic activity aside from just taxes so in general it’s not good that they are leaving

Nature abhors a vacuum.

Seems like there is always companies that step up and replaces what leaves.

My kids are waiting for something to replace Souplantation. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 08, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
I think the chipotle turnaround was more that they hired the Taco Bell ceo. He moved the company back from Denver to Newport. I’m guessing if they stayed out in Denver the results would have been the same.

Always pushing Taco Bell. You are like Panda. :)

That’s because what you guys don’t know is that I’m a food influencer on the side and every time I write the words “Taco Bell” on the internet a $100 gets direct deposited into my account :-)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 02:59:49 PM
Did Toyota do better moving to Texas?
I assume financially yes

If I remember when they left they were considered #1 car company. Are they the #1 car company now? Some people would say NO.

It is all about Talent.

But I guess if there is any finger pointing. It is at the parent company in Japan. The American subsidiary just moved to Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 08, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
Elon moved to Texas.

morekaos got a double.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 03:11:13 PM
Elon moved to Texas.

morekaos got a double.

But who knows if it will fall off.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 03:13:14 PM
What has Toyota done since the move? I can’t think of nothing.

Maybe if they were in Cali. They would of pushed/lobbied to the parent company to go more eco friendly.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 03:16:45 PM
I think even GM one up Toyota getting more/investing into the electric/autonomous.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 03:17:37 PM
If they were in Cali. Some smart mba student/grad would of said the same thing I said.

Top companies have access to top talent.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 06:08:17 PM
GM left the state decades ago...they saw this debacle coming.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 06:54:16 PM
GM left the state decades ago...they saw this debacle coming.

It seems Toyota is doing same as last year. But GM is into autonomous driving and electric.
Walmart to test GM ‘s self driving vehicle. Also, GM hires 3,000 tech jobs for EV push.

Toyota????
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 09:28:43 PM
Toyota is doing just fine,  better because they make smart long term financial decisions....

TOP 10 LARGEST CAR MANUFACTURERS IN THE WORLD 2020-ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW


Toyota which is a Japanese car maker and the world’s largest manufacturer of automobiles will continue to rake in the profits in 2018. Toyota has a global presence having their car available in every part of the world. Toyota has a whole array of latest models for 2020 which are new and improved versions of its earlier models. Toyota manufactures automobile vehicles under five brands which are Hino, Lexus, Daihatsu, Ranz and Toyota. These brands are among the best brands of vehicles in the world and are gotten at a fairly good price. Additionally, Toyota continues its rank as one of the solely car manufacturing company which produces and manufactures over ten million vehicles every 12 months.



https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-largest-car-manufacturers-in-the-world-2020-all-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=TOP%2010%20LARGEST%20CAR%20MANUFACTURERS%20IN%20THE%20WORLD,Automobiles%209%20PSA%2010%20KIA%20More%20items...%20 (https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-largest-car-manufacturers-in-the-world-2020-all-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=TOP%2010%20LARGEST%20CAR%20MANUFACTURERS%20IN%20THE%20WORLD,Automobiles%209%20PSA%2010%20KIA%20More%20items...%20)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 10:03:31 PM
And your source is Kenya Prime.
As I stated before they sell cars. But are they integrating new technologies. Idk
I don’t work there and I am sure they heard the same thing I am saying.

Toyota is doing just fine,  better because they make smart long term financial decisions....

TOP 10 LARGEST CAR MANUFACTURERS IN THE WORLD 2020-ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW


Toyota which is a Japanese car maker and the world’s largest manufacturer of automobiles will continue to rake in the profits in 2018. Toyota has a global presence having their car available in every part of the world. Toyota has a whole array of latest models for 2020 which are new and improved versions of its earlier models. Toyota manufactures automobile vehicles under five brands which are Hino, Lexus, Daihatsu, Ranz and Toyota. These brands are among the best brands of vehicles in the world and are gotten at a fairly good price. Additionally, Toyota continues its rank as one of the solely car manufacturing company which produces and manufactures over ten million vehicles every 12 months.



https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-largest-car-manufacturers-in-the-world-2020-all-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=TOP%2010%20LARGEST%20CAR%20MANUFACTURERS%20IN%20THE%20WORLD,Automobiles%209%20PSA%2010%20KIA%20More%20items...%20 (https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-largest-car-manufacturers-in-the-world-2020-all-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=TOP%2010%20LARGEST%20CAR%20MANUFACTURERS%20IN%20THE%20WORLD,Automobiles%209%20PSA%2010%20KIA%20More%20items...%20)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 10:05:05 PM
Who cares, they sell the most cars. It is why they exist. That is success!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 10:08:40 PM
Who cares, they sell the most cars. It is why they exist. That is success!

Kodak was the #1 camera maker. Then what happened? Timber
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 10:12:04 PM
IBM was the largest PC maker.  Now what do they do? What’s your point. Business do what they do to survive and thrive...Toyota is still on top...will be for a long time.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 08, 2020, 11:04:14 PM
IBM was the largest PC maker.  Now what do they do? What%u2019s your point. Business do what they do to survive and thrive...Toyota is still on top...will be for a long time.

IBM is not the same as b4. They were the T in tech.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 08, 2020, 11:10:57 PM
IBM was the largest PC maker.  Now what do they do? What’s your point. Business do what they do to survive and thrive...Toyota is still on top...will be for a long time.

IBM is not the same as b4. They were the T in tech. But not anymore.

That’s right...it’s better. Bigger, smarter and more proftable.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 11, 2020, 01:54:43 PM
Bye bye Oracle...thanks for taking billions in tax revenues to Texas...we sure don’t need them here in Cali...everyone wants to move here...look at the weather!!

Oracle is moving its headquarters from Silicon Valley to Austin, Texas


Oracle is the latest tech company to relocate out of California.
The coronavirus pandemic has given a number of tech companies an excuse to exit Silicon Valley.
HPE announced its move to Houston earlier this month.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/oracle-is-moving-its-headquarters-from- (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/oracle-is-moving-its-headquarters-from-)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 11, 2020, 02:21:31 PM
I am surprised your not using Kenya prime as your source. Lol
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 11, 2020, 02:49:27 PM
It's okay, as long as the workers stay in Cali because of remote... still taxes to be paid here. :)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 11, 2020, 03:04:07 PM
It helps with the strategy to turn Texas Blue.  ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 09:14:46 AM
I am surprised your not using Kenya prime as your source. Lol

No matter who reports the numbers...the numbers are the numbers...(don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message)... ;D >:D

TOP 10 RICHEST MEN IN THE WORLD 2020 [LATEST RANKING]

#7. Larry Ellison ($60.4 billion)
The growth of technology is technically aided by great people who are known to create technology platforms and companies, and one of those company known as Oracle, has contributed immensely to the development of technology is a company co-founded by the man we are actually discussing right now which is “Larry Ellison”, though he was actually the CEO of this company from the start till September of the year 2014. He goes by the full name “Lawrence Joseph Ellison” but known widely as Larry Ellison; this great icon was brought to this planet through his mother on the 17th of August, 1994. This great man is currently worth $60.4 billion straight up from $55 billion.

https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-richest-men-in-the-world-2020/ (https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-richest-men-in-the-world-2020/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 09:30:01 AM
I am surprised your not using Kenya prime as your source. Lol

No matter who reports the numbers...the numbers are the numbers...(don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message)... ;D >:D

TOP 10 RICHEST MEN IN THE WORLD 2020 [LATEST RANKING]

#7. Larry Ellison ($60.4 billion)
The growth of technology is technically aided by great people who are known to create technology platforms and companies, and one of those company known as Oracle, has contributed immensely to the development of technology is a company co-founded by the man we are actually discussing right now which is %u201CLarry Ellison%u201D, though he was actually the CEO of this company from the start till September of the year 2014. He goes by the full name %u201CLawrence Joseph Ellison%u201D but known widely as Larry Ellison; this great icon was brought to this planet through his mother on the 17th of August, 1994. This great man is currently worth $60.4 billion straight up from $55 billion.

https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-richest-men-in-the-world-2020/ (https://kenyaprime.com/top-10-richest-men-in-the-world-2020/)


1. Sorry I will not click a website that I do not trust or NO one knows about.
2. Again I can care less if they leave. Maybe it is a good thing to make Texas more blue. The next Arizona.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 09:41:26 AM
Not sure what your definition of "edge" is but it seems Toyota accounts for 40% of the top five Hybrid models without one from the US.  That is quite an "edge" over the competition.

Best Hybrid and Electric Cars for 2020 & 2021

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/hybrid-cars (https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/hybrid-cars)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 09:47:53 AM
FY 2019 Prius sales in the US 69.7k approximately.
FY 2012 Prius sales in the US 237k approximately.

Not sure what your definition of "edge" is but it seems Toyota accounts for 40% of the top five Hybrid models without one from the US.  That is quite an "edge" over the competition.

Best Hybrid and Electric Cars for 2020 & 2021

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/hybrid-cars (https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/hybrid-cars)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 09:56:36 AM
Really? You think they really care?...

10.7 million vehicles
Globally, Toyota sold around 10.7 million vehicles between January and December 2019. The company's sales tally increased by around one percent between the 2018 and 2019 calendar years.May 15, 2020

RAV4 2019 sales mark all-time best ever; up 4.9 percent, led by RAV4 Hybrid posting increase of 92.3 percent
Total Lexus division luxury SUV (LUV) sales up 5.6 percent; marking a best-ever year
Total hybrid sales up 28.7 percent in 2019; Toyota division sales hybrid up 26.3 percent and Lexus division up 43.1 percent
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 10:04:15 AM
Yes, they do care. I have heard some people say that Toyota lost a step and Tesla gained many steps like a mile in terms of EV technology.

Really? You think they really care?...

10.7 million vehicles
Globally, Toyota sold around 10.7 million vehicles between January and December 2019. The company's sales tally increased by around one percent between the 2018 and 2019 calendar years.May 15, 2020

RAV4 2019 sales mark all-time best ever; up 4.9 percent, led by RAV4 Hybrid posting increase of 92.3 percent
Total Lexus division luxury SUV (LUV) sales up 5.6 percent; marking a best-ever year
Total hybrid sales up 28.7 percent in 2019; Toyota division sales hybrid up 26.3 percent and Lexus division up 43.1 percent
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 10:31:02 AM
Yes, they do care. I have heard some people say that Toyota lost a step and Tesla gained many steps like a mile in terms of EV technology.

Really? You think they really care?...

10.7 million vehicles
Globally, Toyota sold around 10.7 million vehicles between January and December 2019. The company's sales tally increased by around one percent between the 2018 and 2019 calendar years.May 15, 2020

RAV4 2019 sales mark all-time best ever; up 4.9 percent, led by RAV4 Hybrid posting increase of 92.3 percent
Total Lexus division luxury SUV (LUV) sales up 5.6 percent; marking a best-ever year
Total hybrid sales up 28.7 percent in 2019; Toyota division sales hybrid up 26.3 percent and Lexus division up 43.1 percent

You heard wrong...can't even compare the two.

Tesla global vehicle sales increased 50% from 245,240 units in 2018 to 367,849 units in 2019.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
Yes, they do care. I have heard some people say that Toyota lost a step and Tesla gained many steps like a mile in terms of EV technology.

Really? You think they really care?...

10.7 million vehicles
Globally, Toyota sold around 10.7 million vehicles between January and December 2019. The company's sales tally increased by around one percent between the 2018 and 2019 calendar years.May 15, 2020

RAV4 2019 sales mark all-time best ever; up 4.9 percent, led by RAV4 Hybrid posting increase of 92.3 percent
Total Lexus division luxury SUV (LUV) sales up 5.6 percent; marking a best-ever year
Total hybrid sales up 28.7 percent in 2019; Toyota division sales hybrid up 26.3 percent and Lexus division up 43.1 percent

You heard wrong...can't even compare the two.

Tesla global vehicle sales increased 50% from 245,240 units in 2018 to 367,849 units in 2019.

Is that EV to EV SALES?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 10:49:49 AM
Total unit sales, these two companies are not even on the same planet when you try and compare sales.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:01:17 AM
Total unit sales, these two companies are not even on the same planet when you try and compare sales.

Try ev to ev sales

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2020, 11:07:57 AM
Toyota doesn't even have an EV.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:15:40 AM
Toyota doesn't even have an EV.

Yes they do.....
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2020, 11:27:42 AM
What I mean is they don't have a pure EV so they can't even compete with Tesla.

They just have hybrids, plug-ins and the fuel cell Mirai in the US.

Their first EVs are coming out in China.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:39:05 AM
What I mean is they don't have a pure EV so they can't even compete with Tesla.

They just have hybrids, plug-ins and the fuel cell Mirai in the US.

Their first EVs are coming out in China.

They do have pure ev rav 4. (I think compliance car) so that is still pure ev
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:44:15 AM
Toyota supports litigation against California for high mileage. But GM does not support the lawsuit.

What is going on with Toyota? lol
(Don’t people want to buy high mileage cars?)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2020, 11:45:14 AM
The Rav4 you are talking about is the Rav4 Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid so not full electric.

The point is (and I believe you what you were saying to morekaos)... Toyota is waaaaayyy behind Tesla in the EV market... so their EV sales is actually 0... YUGE deficit.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:48:32 AM
The Rav4 you are talking about is the Rav4 Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid so not full electric.

The point is (and I believe you what you were saying to morekaos)... Toyota is waaaaayyy behind Tesla in the EV market... so their EV sales is actually 0... YUGE deficit.

They had an all electric rav 4. Look it up.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
The Rav4 you are talking about is the Rav4 Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid so not full electric.

The point is (and I believe you what you were saying to morekaos)... Toyota is waaaaayyy behind Tesla in the EV market... so their EV sales is actually 0... YUGE deficit.

They had an all electric rav 4. Look it up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV


Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
CNN Money: Toyota dumps stake in Tesla as former partners become rivals

https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/05/investing/toyota-sells-tesla-stake/index.html


Toyota was an early investor with Tesla and bought batteries from Tesla. So idk what happened!
Building relationships and making it last! Could of would of should of....
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 12:07:27 PM
CNBC: Tesla tops Toyota to become largest automaker by market value

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/tesla-tops-toyota-to-become-largest-automaker-by-market-value.html

Maybe it had something to do with the move to Texas? Idk lol
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 14, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
CNBC: Tesla tops Toyota to become largest automaker by market value

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/tesla-tops-toyota-to-become-largest-automaker-by-market-value.html

Maybe it had something to do with the move to Texas? Idk lol

Tesla's move to Texas? ;D ;)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 01:05:54 PM
CNBC: Tesla tops Toyota to become largest automaker by market value

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/01/tesla-tops-toyota-to-become-largest-automaker-by-market-value.html

Maybe it had something to do with the move to Texas? Idk lol

Tesla's move to Texas? ;D ;)

The edge, touch, drive, motivation ( I don’t know)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 01:08:52 PM
The fact that they were an early investor in Tesla and sold (dumped) the stock says it all.
Also, the fact that Toyota is suing California to go against high fuel mileage says it all.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2020, 01:26:05 PM
Toyota bet on the Hydrogen cell and lost.  They are using hybrids to cover themselves in the interim. 

It make sense for Toyota to wait and do the next big thing than chasing Tesla.

Quote
Japanese car maker Toyota will introduce a solid state battery that can recharge to full in just 10 minutes 2021, a move that could revolutionise the electric vehicle market.

The emergence of the solid state battery market has been predicted for some time, and players including VW-backed Quantumscape, Panasonic, Samsung as well as Nissan, Honda, amd of course Toyota hope to reap the rewards  if they can successfully bring one to market.

Solid state batteries are seen as a holy grail that could dramatically change the course of the uptake of EVs – still affected by consumer perceptions of the time taken to recharge an EV –  and could deliver spectacular returns for the car maker, or battery maker, that achieves it.

https://thedriven.io/2020/12/14/toyota-plans-revolutionary-solid-state-battery-for-2021/

Tesla's long term play is a battery maker...but if Solid State Batteries are the norm..Telsa may get passed.  Musk has specific views on technologies that may or may not be true going forward.

https://www.thestreet.com/tesla/news/quantumscapes-solid-state-battery-compared-to-teslas-battery-day-qs
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 14, 2020, 02:12:44 PM
Any data on number of re-charges a L-Ion vs a Solid State battery can hold? That's going to enter into the equation as well. I can't see Tesla keeping their L-Ion batteries as is should a Solid State battery deliver the goods as promised.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2020, 02:21:26 PM
Any data on number of re-charges a L-Ion vs a Solid State battery can hold? That's going to enter into the equation as well. I can't see Tesla keeping their L-Ion batteries as is should a Solid State battery deliver the goods as promised.

My .02c

There are press releases of SSD getting 500+ miles and 1000 recharge cycles (500K miles lifetime).  The battery is also smaller and lighter and charge faster than Li-Ion.

Question is when...Tesla seems to think SSD is a myth and that LiIon will be the norm for years.

https://contrarianedge.com/teslas-risky-gamble-the-future-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

It is interesting because Tesla still relies on LG and Panasonic to make a lot of its batteries...so Panasonic knows what it is up against when putting out its own SSD batteries.

Edit:

Quote
QuantumScape’s batteries should allow drivers to charge their electric cars to 80% of their full capacity within just fifteen minutes, the company said. The batteries should last around 12 years in normal use in a vehicle with a 300-mile range or better. It also expects its batteries to perform well even in sub-zero temperatures.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/quantumscape-building-electric-car-battery-that-charges-to-80percent-in-15-minutes.html
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2020, 05:20:05 PM
The Rav4 you are talking about is the Rav4 Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid so not full electric.

The point is (and I believe you what you were saying to morekaos)... Toyota is waaaaayyy behind Tesla in the EV market... so their EV sales is actually 0... YUGE deficit.

They had an all electric rav 4. Look it up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV




Not a current model. But even if you want to count it, Tesla still ahead. That's your point right?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 14, 2020, 05:35:53 PM
The Rav4 you are talking about is the Rav4 Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid so not full electric.

The point is (and I believe you what you were saying to morekaos)... Toyota is waaaaayyy behind Tesla in the EV market... so their EV sales is actually 0... YUGE deficit.

They had an all electric rav 4. Look it up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV




Not a current model. But even if you want to count it, Tesla still ahead. That's your point right?

Yes. Also, they went full speed on hydrogen alternative cars.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 14, 2020, 06:58:25 PM
This just shows that rich people move because it suits them..not cause of taxes.

Quote
Ellison, the world’s 11th-wealthiest person, notified his staff Monday of the move. Recode first reported the executive’s decision, which followed Oracle’s announcement Friday that it had shifted the company’s headquarters to Austin, Texas, from Redwood City, California.

“I’ve received a number of inquiries about whether or not I will be moving to Texas,” Ellison wrote in a memo to Oracle’s employees. “The answer is no. I’ve moved to the State of Hawaii and I’ll be using the power of Zoom to work from the island of Lanai. Mahalo, Larry.”

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/oracle-larry-ellison-says-moved-205441890.html

Hawaii's tax rate is similar to California's.

Ellison does own like 98% of Lanai so "FREE RENT"! 
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 04:08:26 PM
Once again, our loss, their gain...he will be by far, the richest taxpayer in Hawaii. Who will replace that fiscal hole? 1 million illegal immigrants?  Great trade. >:( >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 15, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Immigrants do contribute to the economy, in many ways other than taxes.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 15, 2020, 04:11:34 PM
Once again, our loss, their gain...he will be by far, the richest taxpayer in Hawaii. Who will replace that fiscal hole? 1 million illegal immigrants?  Great trade. >:( >:D

But your family were immigrants. (From the Philippines)
So I would not slam foreign people in the US.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: qwerty on December 15, 2020, 04:40:56 PM
Once again, our loss, their gain...he will be by far, the richest taxpayer in Hawaii. Who will replace that fiscal hole? 1 million illegal immigrants?  Great trade. >:( >:D

Go watch A Day Without A Mexican. Those illegals are add more value than Ellison
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 06:32:20 PM
My parents “legally” migrated here. Took them almost ten years to earn the right to become citizens. They were fortunate but worked hard.  In all their time in Cali they did not contribute 1/100 th of the tax revenue that Musk or Ellison contribute in a month. We cannot afford to lose these revenue mules. The burden will most assuredly land with a thud on our heads. Taxes are going to go up for all the rest of us rubes left. Those guys have and will continue to make their billions, but they’ll pay their taxes elsewhere.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 15, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Yeah yeah yeah... and Trump was supposed to win the election.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on December 15, 2020, 06:52:34 PM
Ellison moved to Hawaii, any blather about taxes is BS.

Companies move, States prostitute themselves to get them.

Like building pro sports stadiums wiht public money.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 07:07:24 PM
Yeah yeah yeah... and Trump was supposed to win the election.

Well, he did. He also delivered the covid vaccine in 2020 when all the “experts” said that was impossible...#winning!
>:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 07:10:37 PM
Ellison moved to Hawaii, any blather about taxes is BS.

Companies move, States prostitute themselves to get them.

Like building pro sports stadiums wiht public money.



Ellison didn’t  move to another state...he moved to his own country. He owns the whole island, I’d move there too. More importantly he moved oracles corporate headquarters to Texas. And that had everything to do with taxes, regulations and politics...all toxic to business here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 15, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
Any data on number of re-charges a L-Ion vs a Solid State battery can hold? That's going to enter into the equation as well. I can't see Tesla keeping their L-Ion batteries as is should a Solid State battery deliver the goods as promised.

My .02c

There are press releases of SSD getting 500+ miles and 1000 recharge cycles (500K miles lifetime).  The battery is also smaller and lighter and charge faster than Li-Ion.

Question is when...Tesla seems to think SSD is a myth and that LiIon will be the norm for years.

https://contrarianedge.com/teslas-risky-gamble-the-future-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

It is interesting because Tesla still relies on LG and Panasonic to make a lot of its batteries...so Panasonic knows what it is up against when putting out its own SSD batteries.

Edit:

Quote
QuantumScape’s batteries should allow drivers to charge their electric cars to 80% of their full capacity within just fifteen minutes, the company said. The batteries should last around 12 years in normal use in a vehicle with a 300-mile range or better. It also expects its batteries to perform well even in sub-zero temperatures.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/quantumscape-building-electric-car-battery-that-charges-to-80percent-in-15-minutes.html

Looking forward to those batteries being used in electric cars and probably when I'll buy my first EV.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 15, 2020, 07:38:37 PM
Yeah yeah yeah. Like the story how your family were the founding fathers in the Philippines and were so connected. So why did they have to work hard when the went to the US? (Your story always have a twist)

My parents “legally” migrated here. Took them almost ten years to earn the right to become citizens. They were fortunate but worked hard.  In all their time in Cali they did not contribute 1/100 th of the tax revenue that Musk or Ellison contribute in a month. We cannot afford to lose these revenue mules. The burden will most assuredly land with a thud on our heads. Taxes are going to go up for all the rest of us rubes left. Those guys have and will continue to make their billions, but they’ll pay their taxes elsewhere.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 07:54:25 PM
Attending Harvard med school and NYU business require quite a lot of work. I said they were fortunate and I was not kidding but that did not take away from what they had to do to become citizens. Mom did her residency in Pennsylvania but eventually they moved to California.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 15, 2020, 08:24:11 PM
Yeah yeah yeah... and Trump was supposed to win the election.

Well, he did. He also delivered the covid vaccine in 2020 when all the “experts” said that was impossible...#winning!
>:D


He did, the 2020 one? Go borrow some foil from Mety.

Good job on the vaccine... too bad he couldn't help prevent the almost 100% ICU bed usage due to Covid... in Texas it's 97%.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 08:36:25 PM
Yeah yeah yeah... and Trump was supposed to win the election.

Well, he did. He also delivered the covid vaccine in 2020 when all the “experts” said that was impossible...#winning!
>:D


He did, the 2020 one? Go borrow some foil from Mety.

Good job on the vaccine... too bad he couldn't help prevent the almost 100% ICU bed usage due to Covid... in Texas it's 97%.

He can’t prevent that any more than Biden will be able to...it is what it is.  Like I said, we will not get rid of this for a long time. It took ten years to eradicate polio with a less effective vaccine.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 15, 2020, 10:51:14 PM
Once again, our loss, their gain...he will be by far, the richest taxpayer in Hawaii. Who will replace that fiscal hole? 1 million illegal immigrants?  Great trade. >:( >:D

Go watch A Day Without A Mexican. Those illegals are add more value than Ellison

Its all good Qwerty. We will all go out for tacos and drinks someday except Morekas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 15, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
Once again, our loss, their gain...he will be by far, the richest taxpayer in Hawaii. Who will replace that fiscal hole? 1 million illegal immigrants?  Great trade. >:( >:D

Go watch A Day Without A Mexican. Those illegals are add more value than Ellison

Its all good Qwerty. We will all go out for tacos and drinks someday except Morekas.

Gonna take a lot of tacos to fill that crater of a budget deficit our state government is about to throw us all into but I do love tacos (that’s cakeist!) >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 16, 2020, 03:55:19 PM
I wouldn't mind having tacos with morekaos... we don't agree on some things but that doesn't mean we can't shoot the breeze.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 16, 2020, 04:09:06 PM
I wouldn't mind having tacos with morekaos... we don't agree on some things but that doesn't mean we can't shoot the breeze.

Nothing wrong with that. The thing that is interesting is we were all talking about companies and cars. Then he doesn’t like how the conversation is going. He gets nasty and brings up illegal immigration. (For no reason I have to add) Like a play from Trumps play book.

I hope Morekas does not own any apple products because Steve Jobs biological father was from Syria. Plus Morekas was in total favor of the Muslim ban. To some it up. Morekas not a nice guy.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Irvinecommuter on December 16, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
I can never turn down some good tacos...I mean at worst...you are eating tacos.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 16, 2020, 07:05:34 PM
I wouldn't mind having tacos with morekaos... we don't agree on some things but that doesn't mean we can't shoot the breeze.

Nothing wrong with that. The thing that is interesting is we were all talking about companies and cars. Then he doesn’t like how the conversation is going. He gets nasty and brings up illegal immigration. (For no reason I have to add) Like a play from Trumps play book.

I hope Morekas does not own any apple products because Steve Jobs biological father was from Syria. Plus Morekas was in total favor of the Muslim ban. To some it up. Morekas not a nice guy.

100% true...I am not a nice guy...by snowflake standards...but I do love a good taco!!!
>:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 18, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
They matter....

What Happens When the 1% Go Remote
It doesn’t take very many ultra-wealthy Americans changing their address to wreak havoc on cities’ finances.

The 1% are on the move. Tom Brady and Gisele Bündchen bought a $17 million teardown on Miami Beach’s ultra-exclusive Indian Creek island. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, who are said to have plunked down $30 million for a lot, may be their neighbors. Recently it emerged that hedge fund Elliott Management Corp. is moving its Manhattan headquarters to South Florida, and that private equity giant Blackstone Group Inc. will open an office there. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. is reportedly considering relocating part of its asset management operations to the region, too. It’s not just happening on the East Coast. In the last few months, the venture capitalists David Blumberg and Keith Rabois decamped from the San Francisco Bay Area to Miami. All of this prompted Silicon Valley venture capitalist and startup guru Paul Graham to tweet:

I keep hearing about Miami. At first these mentions seemed like outliers, but there are so many it's starting to look more like a trend. https://t.co/XLaHa6s77b

— Paul Graham (@paulg)
December 8, 2020
Austin is having something of a moment as well. Elon Musk is trading Los Angeles for the Texas tech hub, where his new $1 billion Cybertruck factory is under construction. Larry Ellison announced that Oracle would move its headquarters there from Silicon Valley. DropBox Inc. CEO Drew Houston and Splunk Inc. CEO Douglas Merritt reportedly took steps to relocate from the Bay Area to Austin, too.

Some residents of pricey cities like New York, L.A. and San Francisco might say good riddance to the uber-rich whom they blame for growing unaffordability and inequality in their cities. But their cities will pay a literal price for their departures. It doesn’t take very many one-percenters changing their address to wreak havoc on cities’ finances.

When the billionaire hedge funder David Tepper left New Jersey for Miami Beach in 2015, he left a crater in New Jersey’s budget that experts estimate was upwards of $100 million annually. (Interestingly enough, Tepper recently moved back home to the Garden State.) A whopping 80% of New York City’s income tax revenue, according to one estimate, comes from the 17% of its residents who earn more than $100,000 per year. If just 5% of those folks decided to move away, it would cost the city almost one billion ($933 million) in lost tax revenue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/what-happens-when-the-1-move-to-miami-and-austin (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/what-happens-when-the-1-move-to-miami-and-austin)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 31, 2020, 08:57:44 AM
Says it all...

Even the Rose Bowl left California in 2020 for Texas. Can the Golden State get anything right?

This is only the second time 'the Granddaddy' of bowl games won’t be played in California

https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/rose-bowl-california-2020-texas (https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/rose-bowl-california-2020-texas)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 31, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
And the hits just keep on comn...

Companies Are Fleeing California. Blame Bad Government.

In recent years, San Francisco has seemed to be begging for companies to leave. In addition to familiar failures of governance — widespread homelessness, inadequate transit, soaring property crime — it has also imposed more idiosyncratic hindrances. Far from welcoming experimentation, it has sought to undermine or stamp out home-rental services, food-delivery apps, ride-hailing firms, electric-scooter companies, facial-recognition technology, delivery robots and more, even as the pioneers in each of those fields attempted to set up shop in the city. It tried to ban corporate cafeterias — a major tech-industry perk — on the not-so-sound theory that this would protect local restaurants. It created an “Office of Emerging Technology” that will only grant permission to test new products if they’re deemed, in a city bureaucrat’s view, to provide a “net common good.” Whatever the merits of such meddling, it’s hardly a formula for unbounded inventiveness.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-fleeing-california-blame-bad-130019650.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-fleeing-california-blame-bad-130019650.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 31, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
Morekas but you and your family still lives in California. Thank you
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 31, 2020, 10:23:09 AM
Morekas but you and your family still lives in California. Thank you

True, but even I may be moving my business out of state.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on December 31, 2020, 10:38:47 AM
Short term home rental companies are great, right up until your neighbor turns their place into a weekly 72 hour party rental.

There is a good reason hotels typically are not zone residential.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 31, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
Morekas but you and your family still lives in California. Thank you

True, but even I may be moving my business out of state.

But you haven’t. Old man complaining about nothing. It’s like watching videos on YouTube of people complaining about CA. But the guy still lives in CA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 31, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
Morekas but you and your family still lives in California. Thank you

True, but even I may be moving my business out of state.

But you haven’t. Old man complaining about nothing. It’s like watching videos on YouTube of people complaining about CA. But the guy still lives in CA.

I’m not moving, just my income will. I can work out of Las Vegas offices and pay no state taxes...My family and I can pretty much stay put. Offsite work has its advantages!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on December 31, 2020, 02:54:15 PM
Your not moving because you like living in California. Out of state there is only so much off roading in the desert, hiking in trails, camping, gambling, blasting AC 247 and 365. (hot and humid, too much gambling is an addiction and has ruined many lives)
Out of state the go to spot in the town might be the Walmart or Target shopping center area. IDK
Also, the food options nothing comes close to California.

You can go!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 31, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
Morekas but you and your family still lives in California. Thank you

True, but even I may be moving my business out of state.

But you haven’t. Old man complaining about nothing. It’s like watching videos on YouTube of people complaining about CA. But the guy still lives in CA.

I’m not moving, just my income will. I can work out of Las Vegas offices and pay no state taxes...My family and I can pretty much stay put. Offsite work has its advantages!

Prepare to be probed by the friendly CA franchise tax board if you make any meaningful taxable income.  They'll be looking at your bank statements and credit card statements to verify that you are officially out of California.  Your office may "move" to Las Vegas but you won't be able to get away from paying income to the CA franchise tax board unless you prove to them that you are not living in CA.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on December 31, 2020, 07:48:53 PM
I have 3 colleagues with 7 figure incomes who have successfully done this for years now. They maintain two households sending kids to run cars around and pay bills in Vegas. The firms don’t care, all the money still flows their way so they look the other way, clients could care less. Both still live in NB and HB harbors...never been audited. I had lunch with one at Maestros the other day...on the patio!
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on January 01, 2021, 07:06:17 AM
I suspect like Amazon, we will be finding States changing in their rules and enforcement policies as shifts materially impact their revenue streams.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: OCtoSV on January 04, 2021, 03:06:00 PM
I have 3 colleagues with 7 figure incomes who have successfully done this for years now. They maintain two households sending kids to run cars around and pay bills in Vegas. The firms don’t care, all the money still flows their way so they look the other way, clients could care less. Both still live in NB and HB harbors...never been audited. I had lunch with one at Maestros the other day...on the patio!

Outdoor dining is currently allowed in OC?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 04, 2021, 08:34:01 PM
Not that I am aware of...but it’s there. ;) >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on January 18, 2021, 03:10:09 PM
...and while the masses are busy looking at the squirrel everyone else leaves town...

The states Americans headed to the most in 2020, according to U-Haul


Texas, which has ranked in the top two states with the most one-way arrivals since 2015, was No. 2 in 2020. Florida, which came in first in 2019, fell to third.

California ranks last on 2020′s list, behind Illinois and New Jersey, as the states with the least one-way arrivals. California has been in the bottom three states since 2016 and Illinois has been in the bottom two since 2015, when U-Haul began ranking states.

“I’m seeing a lot of people from California move [to Tennessee] because they’re attracted to our lifestyle,” Jeff Porter, U-Haul Company of Nashville president said in a release. Tennessee also has no income tax, plenty of jobs and is business-friendly, Porter said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/18/heres-where-all-the-u-haul.html? (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/18/heres-where-all-the-u-haul.html?)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: daedalus on January 29, 2021, 04:08:27 PM
Too many Tesla owners who have no need for a hot ground camshaft.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/39011/legendary-auto-parts-manufacturer-edelbrock-is-closing-its-california-headquarters
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on March 09, 2021, 01:01:11 PM
What is most interesting here is not the top 10 destinations...its the bottom ten losers...What do you think that most of those states have in common?  Guess where our great state lands (with a thud)...

2020 Migration Trends: U-Haul Ranks 50 States by Migration Growth
     
Tennessee claims No. 1 spot for first time; Texas in top 2 for fifth straight year

40.

Michigan (48)

41.

Pennsylvania (46)

42.

New York (43)

43.

Connecticut (34)

44.

Louisiana (40)

45.

Oregon (29)

46.

Maryland (45)

47.

Massachusetts (47)

48.

New Jersey (44)

49.

Illinois (50)

50.

California (49)


https://www.uhaul.com/Articles/About/22746/2020-Migration-Trends-U-Haul-Ranks-50-States-By-Migration-Growth/ (https://www.uhaul.com/Articles/About/22746/2020-Migration-Trends-U-Haul-Ranks-50-States-By-Migration-Growth/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on March 09, 2021, 03:35:04 PM
Ah winning, loading myself up in a Uhual and moving myself across country.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 12, 2021, 01:28:27 PM
Aim for the heart Ramon...


San Francisco Hemorrhaging Residents To Texas And Florida: Study

The liberal city of San Francisco, California, is losing residents at a record pace, many of whom are migrating to states such as Texas and Florida, according to a recent study.

San Francisco has lost more residents between 2019 and 2020 than any other major U.S. city, according to data compiled by the commercial realty firm CBRE Group and reported by Business Insider. The study discovered that the number of those fleeing San Francisco to Texas spiked 32.1%, and those making the trek to Florida skyrocketed by 46.2%.

Residents have cited high taxes as a main driver of the decision to leave.

“I never wanted to leave California,” San Francisco real estate broker Scott Fuller said about his departure from the state after living there since 1983. “It’s the most beautiful state with the best climate. I think the tipping point was continued tax increases and even more proposed tax increases. … I have absolutely no regrets.”


https://www.dailywire.com/news/san-francisco-hemorrhaging-residents-to-texas-and-florida-study (https://www.dailywire.com/news/san-francisco-hemorrhaging-residents-to-texas-and-florida-study)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: freedomcm on April 13, 2021, 01:27:33 PM
sounds disastrous until you look at the actual number, instead of the percent change annualized.

on the order of 3k, up from 2k people moved from SF.

only 136k from all of CA, out of what 40M?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 21, 2021, 07:41:45 AM
sounds disastrous until you look at the actual number, instead of the percent change annualized.

on the order of 3k, up from 2k people moved from SF.

only 136k from all of CA, out of what 40M?


No doubt FCM, what matters is the quality of those leaving. Just a few high quality can skew that number significantly.  It has been my experience that they are the ones we would like to keep...steady, high earners.  What is the quality of those who are coming or stay?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 21, 2021, 08:34:56 AM
In case you want to escape the California traffic and move to Texas. Let me tell you there is a lot of traffic on the I-35 in Austin, and West Loop I-610 in Houston. Tbh, the media never or rarely mentioned about the traffic.

People in Texas are actually excited for the high speed train that connects Dallas and Houston.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 21, 2021, 09:07:25 AM
If you are gonna build High speed rail then Texas probably will do it right.  Will come in on time and under budget...

The company estimates that the construction for the project will take up to six years, with a total cost of around $20 billion. The train will use the same technology as the Shinkansen bullet trains in Japan, which can reach speeds of more than 200 mph.

Unlike our morons who run things into the ground, end up producing nothing and stealing vast amounts of taxpayer money...

After 12 years of delays, mismanagement, and political gridlock, the total cost estimate for the California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) has reached $100 billion. Initially budgeted at $35 billion, former California Gov. Jerry Brown’s dream of uniting California’s coastal metropolises and parts of the Central Valley has transformed into a disjointed, mismanaged fiscal nightmare with rising costs every single year following its inception
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 01:56:33 PM
...and the hits just keep on com'n!!

Census: Texas gains Congress seats, Calif. loses first time

For the first time in 170 years of statehood, California is losing a congressional seat, a result of slowed migration to the nation’s most populous state, which was once a symbol of the country’s expansive frontier.

The reshuffling of the congressional map moved seats from blue states to red ones, giving Republicans a clear, immediate advantage. The party will have complete control of drawing the congressional maps in Texas, Florida and North Carolina — states that are adding four seats.

https://apnews.com/article/census-congressional-districts-7dd29f02c7d68038920c7e1a23f842a1 (https://apnews.com/article/census-congressional-districts-7dd29f02c7d68038920c7e1a23f842a1)

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 03:08:37 PM
But you still live in California.
All this whining and complaining. Wipe your fake tears away.

Texas utility grid like no other state in the US. They still have not fixed the problem. Point the finger and blame renewable energy. They do not get it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 04:09:01 PM
Explained it years ago in this thread, unfortunately,  if you re read much of what I said back then came true...proven just today as we lose a congressional seat and Texas gains three.

Can't catch a break,  Bad to work here AND now bad to retire here.  Will I be only one left here soon?

If you hate California so much, please move.

Thank you.

Actually, just the opposite it true.  Unless we recognize the flaws and discuss ways to fix them without denying their existence we will someday ALL wake up in a place we "hate".  As a native I would rather fix it than run away  or deny it.  As I said, I have substantial skin in this game.  I own real estate and investments here, I was born raised and educated here, I make a good living here, my family is here, my children go to school here and I don't plan on going anywhere, anytime soon.  The place we live is privileged, but not perfect and without room for improvement.  
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:22:28 PM
I read too much. Wtf and I suppose to do? Wipe your fake tears!
That is like saying do not smoke because it is bad for you. But you smoke 2 packs a day. Lol

Explained it years ago in this thread, unfortunately,  if you re read much of what I said back then came true...proven just today as we lose a congressional seat and Texas gains three.

Can't catch a break,  Bad to work here AND now bad to retire here.  Will I be only one left here soon?

If you hate California so much, please move.

Thank you.

Actually, just the opposite it true.  Unless we recognize the flaws and discuss ways to fix them without denying their existence we will someday ALL wake up in a place we "hate".  As a native I would rather fix it than run away  or deny it.  As I said, I have substantial skin in this game.  I own real estate and investments here, I was born raised and educated here, I make a good living here, my family is here, my children go to school here and I don't plan on going anywhere, anytime soon.  The place we live is privileged, but not perfect and without room for improvement.  
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 04:26:05 PM
Actually Eye, you miss the point again. Perhaps you don’t read enough...
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:28:11 PM
Actually Eye, you miss the point again. Perhaps you don’t read enough...

Sure blame your family.

Tell Texas to fix their utility problem. A big problem.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:32:22 PM
Real estate and investments can always be sold. Btw - you can rent your house. Most likely be cash flow positive. (Contact your local RE agent for advice.)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:34:02 PM
Just be sue your born and raised in California. It doesn’t mean that you have to stay here.
You promote Texas, but you never talk about the $1000 plus utility bill, talk about the traffic.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:34:47 PM
This is coming from a guy who really likes and defend Ted Cruz. (Go figure)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
We all know why you do not leave California for Texas. Because it is a lot better here.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 05:29:08 PM
Actually Eye, you miss the point again. Perhaps you don’t read enough...

Sure blame your family.

Tell Texas to fix their utility problem. A big problem.

so triggered...again you clearly didn’t read what I wrote, (try the part in red). I don’t blame anyone but the politicians and the fools who voted for them.  I have never complained about my life. I got it pretty good but then I can afford it.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 06:34:30 PM
Actually Eye, you miss the point again. Perhaps you don’t read enough...

Sure blame your family.

Tell Texas to fix their utility problem. A big problem.

so triggered...again you clearly didn’t read what I wrote, (try the part in red). I don’t blame anyone but the politicians and the fools who voted for them.  I have never complained about my life. I got it pretty good but then I can afford it.

News flash: you can rent your property. Also, you don’t need to be a resident California to sell your investments. I guess if you bought California municipal bonds, if you want to be tax free you have to file taxes in a California. (not investment advice) But I am sure that is not the case.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 06:46:59 PM
..and why would I want to rent my property? I live on an island, 60 feet from the water. My yacht’s right here. A quiet one way private street with only a few homes on it. If I were to, I doubt you could afford the rent. I worked very hard to afford such a property and I won’t easily give it up, hence my concern for the deteriorating state of the state that surrounds it. ;) :D >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 26, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
..and why would I want to rent my property? I live on an island, 60 feet from the water. My yacht’s right here. A quiet one way private street with only a few homes on it. If I were to, I doubt you could afford the rent. I worked very hard to afford such a property and I won’t easily give it up, hence my concern for the deteriorating state of the state that surrounds it. ;) :D >:D

Proves my point. You enjoy California.
You probably would not enjoy the hot and humid weather in Texas.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 26, 2021, 09:50:55 PM
Of course it doesn’t. I have never said I’m leaving. I stay because I can, (fortunately for me and my family) but I fight to make it the great place it once was. Just last week I arranged bridge financing for two native California clients to cash purchase $3-$5 million dollar properties in Texas and Nevada.  They’ll pay cash, sell their properties here and unwind it. These are major tax payers leaving our state for better business friendly states.  That tax base ain’t coming back...They are being replaced by 500 illegal immigrant girls at the Long Beach convention center....it’s not a fair trade.  Nothing proves my point like the loss of a congressional seat today...look who got it(Texas)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on April 27, 2021, 01:07:05 AM
Of course it doesn’t. I have never said I’m leaving. I stay because I can, (fortunately for me and my family) but I fight to make it the great place it once was. Just last week I arranged bridge financing for two native California clients to cash purchase $3-$5 million dollar properties in Texas and Nevada.  They’ll pay cash, sell their properties here and unwind it. These are major tax payers leaving our state for better business friendly states.  That tax base ain’t coming back...They are being replaced by 500 illegal immigrant girls at the Long Beach convention center....it’s not a fair trade.  Nothing proves my point like the loss of a congressional seat today...look who got it(Texas)

You are flexing and not answering the question.
Again, your argument is flawed. You love the coastal living in California. But there is also coastal living in Texas. But the coastal living in California is greater than Texas. (climate) Now you are blaming illegals, but there are also illegals in Texas.

Stop trying to flex (brag), because it does not strengthen your argument. It just makes you looks stupid. (Your real estate and investment argument is laughable.)

So you say work hard for your property in California. I guess no one else works hard. Hahaa



Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: freedomcm on April 27, 2021, 06:58:12 AM
Why do you keep saying 'Texas' got the seat?  Why not all the Californians moving to Oregon (an even more liberal place) to WFH?

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on April 27, 2021, 07:14:43 AM
Migration happens, Morekaos is wrong on who we are losing though.  Net migration out is the working poor.  Oh wait, technically that’s middle class I guess Although I consider under $30,000 poor and even under $50,000 poor when the local McDonald’s chronically has hiring signs up at $19/hr.

https://www.next10.org/sites/default/files/2019-06/California-Migration-Final2.pdf
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 27, 2021, 07:59:59 AM
Of course it doesn’t. I have never said I’m leaving. I stay because I can, (fortunately for me and my family) but I fight to make it the great place it once was. Just last week I arranged bridge financing for two native California clients to cash purchase $3-$5 million dollar properties in Texas and Nevada.  They’ll pay cash, sell their properties here and unwind it. These are major tax payers leaving our state for better business friendly states.  That tax base ain’t coming back...They are being replaced by 500 illegal immigrant girls at the Long Beach convention center....it’s not a fair trade.  Nothing proves my point like the loss of a congressional seat today...look who got it(Texas)

You are flexing and not answering the question.
Again, your argument is flawed. You love the coastal living in California. But there is also coastal living in Texas. But the coastal living in California is greater than Texas. (climate) Now you are blaming illegals, but there are also illegals in Texas.

Stop trying to flex (brag), because it does not strengthen your argument. It just makes you looks stupid. (Your real estate and investment argument is laughable.)

So you say work hard for your property in California. I guess no one else works hard. Hahaa






...and agian Eye, you totally miss the point. I am not bragging or flexing, I could care less what you think of my life..really.  I only point these facts out because it shows I have significant skin in the game.  My commitment to this place is not only deeply emotional but significantly financial.  As I have said a million times...I ain't goin anywhere but that does not stop the significant number of Californians who are leaving for reasons that are all too obvious.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 27, 2021, 08:43:30 AM
Why do you keep saying 'Texas' got the seat?  Why not all the Californians moving to Oregon (an even more liberal place) to WFH?



It is significant in that California has not lost a seat in over 100 years and the states gaining seats are predominantly Red.  This trend is a shifting of power that dramatically illustrates the population voting with their feet.  Nothing could be more clear that the path we are on is the wrong one....

California will lose a seat in Congress for first time
For the first time in its history, California will lose a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives after early results from the 2020 census released Monday showed the state’s population hasn’t grown as fast as the populations of other states.

The new population count means less political clout for Californians in Washington D.C. and the Electoral College, with gains going to places like Texas, Colorado and Florida. In all, seven states will lose one House seat while six will gain at least one.

The loss for California, which will be felt for at least the next decade, increases the gap between the state’s economic contributions and its political representation, noted Dowell Myers, a professor who teaches about demographic changes at USC’s Sol Price School of Public Policy. It also increases the gap between the Electoral College and the popular vote, since the change means California will lose one electoral vote.

The big winner Monday, politically, is Texas, which will gain two House seats, bringing its delegation to 38, the second biggest after California. Colorado, Florida, Montana, North Carolina and Oregon also will each gain one seat.

In addition to California, other states set to lose a seat are Illinois, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/california-will-lose-a-seat-in-congress-for-first-time/ar-BB1g54d5 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/california-will-lose-a-seat-in-congress-for-first-time/ar-BB1g54d5)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on April 27, 2021, 10:16:08 AM
Where they are going are turning blue.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 27, 2021, 10:30:01 AM
Where they are going are turning blue.

Not the ones leaving here. They are extremely red and they will bring that political view with them. If you are leaving this state for those reasons, you are not Blue.

Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on April 27, 2021, 10:39:45 AM
We're number one!!!!

56.7% in California, 54.3% in New York and 53.3% in Oregon: How Biden's doubling of capital gains for Americans earning more than $1M will send rates soaring in states with additional local rates
Biden is expected to unveil Wednesday during his speech to Congress a massive capital gains tax hike to help pay for his 'human infrastructure' bill
It will nearly double the top capital gains taxes to 39.6% for people earning more than $1 million
California, New York, New Jersey, Minnesota and Oregon would have the highest top capital gains rates

13 states and Washington, D.C. would all have top rates surpassing 50%
White House officials defended Biden's tax hikes on the wealthy to pay for his $1.8 trillion American Families Plan 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9516857/Bidens-capital-gains-tax-hike-39-6-high-earning-Americans-send-rates-soaring.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9516857/Bidens-capital-gains-tax-hike-39-6-high-earning-Americans-send-rates-soaring.html)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 03, 2021, 12:45:04 PM
Where they are going are turning blue.

Not the ones leaving here. They are extremely red and they will bring that political view with them. If you are leaving this state for those reasons, you are not Blue.


Not true...

This leads some conservative groups to believe there is an “invasion” going on of liberals into red states. After looking at the data and meeting many people moving to my own area in Montana, I find the “liberal invasion” narrative to be fraudulent.

Leftists don’t relocate to red states, at least not very often. They do not run away from their safe spaces. Rather, they relocate an hour or two from the cities they are addicted to. This is what the data from San Francisco shows. With over 80% of people moving from the city staying within California. In other words, some leftists want to get out of the cities, but they don’t want to move far from their beloved progressive Utopias and they certainly don’t plan on embedding in conservative strongholds and trying to “take over”.

https://libertarianhub.com/2021/04/29/red-states-are-fighting-back-against-the-reset-what-does-this-mean-for-the-future/ (https://libertarianhub.com/2021/04/29/red-states-are-fighting-back-against-the-reset-what-does-this-mean-for-the-future/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 10, 2021, 11:46:28 AM
Tic Toc indeed...

California is Leaving
No children, no middle class, and no future.

California’s fastest growing population is senior citizens. By 2030, every 1 in 3 Californians will be over the age of 50. The over 60 population will increase by 166 percent by 2060 going from 5.5 million to 13.5 million. Hotel California is rapidly becoming a retirement community.

By 2030, California will have a higher percentage elderly population than Florida.


In 1970, the median age of Californians was 27 years old. Jerry Brown became the state's youngest governor of the century. When he next ran for office, he became its oldest governor at the age of 72. California’s median age is now 38. And it’s only headed north from there.

By 2050, a third of LA will be over 65 and by 2060, the median age in LA will be 48.

California’s elderly population is increasing faster than any other age group. While the young population will remain flat, the middle aged population will only increase by a fifth, even as the elderly population more than doubles. These numbers paint a portrait of a state with no growth.

The state’s birth rate fell 10% just last year. A one month comparison actually showed a drop of 23%. While the pandemic suppressed birth rates, the numbers had been dropping in California long before anyone had ever heard of Wuhan. Two years ago it hit the lowest level in a century down to half of the state’s 1990 birth rate. In the last decade, California’s birth rate dropped twice as much as the national average defying its own demographic destiny.

The news is much worse than these numbers make it look.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/05/california-leaving-daniel-greenfield/ (https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/05/california-leaving-daniel-greenfield/)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: nosuchreality on May 10, 2021, 12:16:27 PM
Yawn.  Census reports California median age 37.  USA median age 38.5.

1970 California media age, 27.  USA median age 28.

Yawn


Yawn



Yawn.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 10, 2021, 12:18:28 PM
Was in downtown SF this weekend picking up Soylent Yellow from college.

It sounds strange even as I type it, but no major protests or riots were anticipated this past weekend, but the "new normal" was this: Businesses are still boarded up along all of the major streets. Had to cross one street to avoid a very aggressive hobo weaving in and out of traffic while he was screaming at everyone. The hobo population has exponentially grown since we were last there a year ago. Two Asian women were knifed a few blocks from where we were staying. Hotels are at 15-20 percent occupancy - how that's going to work financially is a mystery to me. There were some people keeping watch on the top of their buildings overnight - similar to how K-Town was during the 1992 LA Riots. Cable cars aren't running either.

There is no reason at all to visit SF as a tourist location. I can't imagine working downtown either. It's amazing how the City has gotten so much worse each and every time we go up there.

My .02c
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 10, 2021, 12:31:46 PM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 10:57:12 AM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

The right media love to bash California. But they do not talk about the voting restrictions in the south.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

The right media love to bash California. But they do not talk about the voting restrictions in the south.

Already teeing up that lie to account for the losses that are coming during the midterms...excuses, excuses.. ;D ;) >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 01:43:53 PM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

The right media love to bash California. But they do not talk about the voting restrictions in the south.

Already teeing up that lie to account for the losses that are coming during the midterms...excuses, excuses.. ;D ;) >:D

You mean the lie that Trump won and that is he Capital riot was a friendly gathering. (as you previously said)
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 01:52:48 PM
Keep on believing the bar crazy lies. Lol
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 03:08:29 PM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

The right media love to bash California. But they do not talk about the voting restrictions in the south.

Already teeing up that lie to account for the losses that are coming during the midterms...excuses, excuses.. ;D ;) >:D

You mean the lie that Trump won and that is he Capital riot was a friendly gathering. (as you previously said)

Once again...please cite quotes that exist instead of making them up, as usual ...  I’ll wait.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

The right media love to bash California. But they do not talk about the voting restrictions in the south.

Already teeing up that lie to account for the losses that are coming during the midterms...excuses, excuses.. ;D ;) >:D

You mean the lie that Trump won and that is he Capital riot was a friendly gathering. (as you previously said)

Once again...please cite quotes that exist instead of making them up, as usual ...  I’ll wait.


You said the Capital riot was nothing. Also, you said Trump won. Please go to your right leaning websites/chat rooms and come back with a response. Lol
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 03:40:26 PM
Like I figured... no ability to cite a quote, just making up things to fit your assumptions and empty accusations...moving on.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 04:21:31 PM
Like I figured... no ability to cite a quote, just making up things to fit your assumptions and empty accusations...moving on.

Why do you want me to look it up? You previously said it.
Go to your to your infinity and beyond chat. Lol

You want me to go back and review your trash? I got better shi7 to do.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 06:03:41 PM
....because I don't have to since I know what I type and I am always consistent...I'm still waiting on your last lie....

No I didn’t but you go on spreading fake news if it makes you happy. Can’t find what isn’t there but I know you like to make up whatever you want. Easy to prove your right...all my posts are there, just find it...but I know you won’t or actually, I know you can’t.

Okay let me go look it up. Acting like a little kid.

Yes, Kids love to make crap up
.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 06:08:33 PM
Say what you want. Believe your own fake stories. Like the one that you know many doctors that work in a hospital and don’t wear a mask. Also, they don’t get sick. (Must be a super power)
I am laughing and I really feel sorry for the people who believe your nonsense.


Makin stuff up again...please provide quote and date where I said that I “know many doctors that work in a hospital and don’t wear a mask.”...I’ll wait.
::) >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 06:47:53 PM
You never said Trump won the election?
You never said the Capital riot is not a big deal? (People will forget about it)


....because I don't have to since I know what I type and I am always consistent...I'm still waiting on your last lie....

No I didn’t but you go on spreading fake news if it makes you happy. Can’t find what isn’t there but I know you like to make up whatever you want. Easy to prove your right...all my posts are there, just find it...but I know you won’t or actually, I know you can’t.

Okay let me go look it up. Acting like a little kid.

Yes, Kids love to make crap up
.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 06:49:52 PM
Let me go to the thread. Remind me to send you an invoice for wasting my time.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: eyephone on May 11, 2021, 06:52:14 PM
Here is one of your quotes taking about the Capital riot.

Nothing wrong with "mostly peaceful protests", right? >:D
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: morekaos on May 11, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
Here is one of your quotes taking about the Capital riot.

Nothing wrong with "mostly peaceful protests", right? >:D

Yes, what’s wrong with that? Don’t think you understand the irony and sarcasm but that’s on you
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: Liar Loan on May 21, 2021, 10:32:59 AM
So with all these companies and people leaving California... why aren't the real estate prices plummeting?

They did decline for three years in Irvine.  I suppose that was all seasonal though.
Title: Re: Toyota moving to Texas
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 21, 2021, 01:57:33 PM