Did the UC Admissions make the right decision to drop the SAT Requirement? Should other top public universities like UMichigan, UVA, UNC, & GT follow?

MaxRoi with Irvine Valley College !!

University of Califronia Berkeley 20 Year Net : $939,000
University of California San Diego 20 Year Net : $797,000
University of California Los Angeles 20 Year Net : $711,000

Tier #1 UCs , Berkeley, San Diego, UCLA
Tier #2 UCs , Irvine, Davis, and Santa Barbara

roi.jpg
 
Last edited:
The 20 Year Net ROI at California State University seems to do better than the bottom two UC Colleges UC Riverside and Santa Cruz. Better to attend California State University vs UC Riverside and Santa Cruz.

@qwerty, Cal State Fullerton doesn't seem to be a great ROI. They make half the salary of a Cal grad. Graduate rate at Fullerton is 71% vs 93% at Cal.

calstate.jpg
 
Last edited:
panda said:
The 20 Year Net ROI at California State University seems to do better than the bottom two UC Colleges UC Riverside and Santa Cruz. Better to attend California State University vs UC Riverside and Santa Cruz.

@qwerty, Cal State Fullerton doesn't seem to be a great ROI. They make half the salary of a Cal grad. Graduate rate at Fullerton is 71% vs 93% at Cal.
Click to expand...
I don't know how they are calculating cost, but the tuition at CSU Fullerton is $7k, so the total 4-year cost should be $30k, which means the ROI is actually higher than Berkeley in percentage terms.
 
This fits with the theme of this thread -- getting MaxROI from your college investment!

Nearly Half of All Masters Degrees Aren't Worth Getting​

While more than three-quarters of all bachelor's degrees have a positive return on investment (ROI), according to the paper, master's and associate degrees are much riskier bets—with many costing students in the long run.

However, different kinds of degrees were more likely to have a negative ROI than others. For example, 77 percent of bachelor's degrees and doctoral and professional degrees have a positive ROI. In contrast, just 57 percent of master's and associate degree programs have a positive ROI.

For bachelor's degrees, fine arts, education, and biology programs had the lowest median ROI, while engineering, computer science, and nursing degrees gave students the highest long-term rewards.

However, where college students were enrolled also mattered when it came to ROI. For example, an English degree from the University of Virginia has a $581,925 positive return on investment—climbing to over $600,000 when only including students who graduated on time. In contrast, students at Virginia Commonwealth University—another public university—who majored in English have a negative $30,000 ROI, with just a $3,624 benefit for those who end up graduating on time.

reason.com

Nearly half of all masters degrees aren't worth getting

According to new research, 23 percent of bachelor's degree programs and 43 percent of master's degree programs have a negative ROI.
reason.com reason.com
 
I noticed an interesting demographics stats for UC Irvine from my US NEWS Top Colleges ranking 2010 Edition. Can you please let me know if this is accurate?

In the 2010 Student profile demographics: 52% were Asian and 29% were White. Fastforward to 2023, UCI student profile demographics is 27% Asian and 38% White. This is almost a 50% drop in Asian student attendance. Did Asian students suddenly lose interest in attending UCI? or is this discrimination against Asian student applicant?

I am sort of wondering now if this is the reason why UC Admissions removed the SAT requirements in 2020 because Asian students typically excel at them.

Would like get others insights and opinions on this demographics shift of Asian students from from 2010 - 2023 at UCI.

 
Last edited:
panda said:
I noticed an interesting demographics stats for UC Irvine from my US NEWS Top Colleges ranking 2010 Edition. Can you please let me know if this is accurate?

In the 2010 Student profile demographics: 52% were Asian and 29% were White. Fastforward to 2023, UCI student profile demographics is 27% Asian and 38% White. This is almost a 50% drop in Asian student attendance. Did Asian students suddenly lose interest in attending UCI? or is this discrimination against Asian student applicant?

I am sort of wondering now if this is the reason why UC Admissions removed the SAT requirements in 2020 because Asian students typically excel at them.

Would like get others insights and opinions on this demographics shift of Asian students from from 2010 - 2023 at UCI.

Click to expand...

It could be the opposite of what you are saying. I think white students were discriminated against. I have seen it all through the IUSD schools. I am really happy schools are removing SAT. Not all students test well but have amazing presence and social skills that I feel will get you further in life than most education models. A high social IQ is a true talent.
 
The SAT is highly correlated to family income. So instead of requiring SAT scores, lets rank order applicants based on family income and give the rich kids the upper hand in admissions.
 
What do you mean by lets rank order applicants based on family income and give the rich kids the upper hand in admissions?
 
panda said:
What do you mean by lets rank order applicants based on family income and give the rich kids the upper hand in admissions?
Click to expand...
That is effectively what the SAT test does. It's well documented that high-income families have the upper hand when it comes to the SAT, so let's get rid of the test and just give the rich kids bonus points on their college applications for being wealthy. We could maintain the same lack of fairness as the current system, while saving lots of time & money by no longer administering the test.
 
What do you think happened for the admissions to UCI? How do you explain 52% Asian students at UCI, dropping to 27% from 2010 - 2023? and the White students increasing in population from 29% to 38%. Perhaps you are closer to this than I am, but I am curious how the admission criteria changed from 2010 and 2023.

This may suprise you, but did you know that Georgia Tech has a higher Asian % of students than UCLA? Tech's Asian % was 15% in 2010 with a 51% acceptance rate. Even back in the 1990s, UCLA was a highly desireable college brand among Asian students. No one knew Georgia Tech existed.
Liar Loan said:
That is effectively what the SAT test does. It's well documented that high-income families have the upper hand when it comes to the SAT, so let's get rid of the test and just give the rich kids bonus points on their college applications for being wealthy. We could maintain the same lack of fairness as the current system, while saving lots of time & money by no longer administering the test.
Click to expand...
 
panda said:
What do you think happened for the admissions to UCI? How do you explain 52% Asian students at UCI, dropping to 27% from 2010 - 2023? and the White students increasing in population from 29% to 38%. Perhaps you are closer to this than I am, but I am curious how the admission criteria changed from 2010 and 2023.
Click to expand...
Where are your stats for UCI coming from?
 
In 2019 there were more international undergraduate students than white Americans?
www.universityofcalifornia.edu

Fall enrollment at a glance

Fall undergraduate and graduate enrollment by discipline, gender, ethnicity, residency, country (for undergraduates) and campus.
www.universityofcalifornia.edu www.universityofcalifornia.edu
 

Attachments

  • 43506E63-2C1D-4B58-B081-F909A72630E2.jpeg
    43506E63-2C1D-4B58-B081-F909A72630E2.jpeg
    585.5 KB · Views: 7
@Loco_local

Think about it. If you were the CEO of UCLA, Inc and each CA student you admit pays you $14k vs International student who pays you $43k. Wouldnt you admit as many international students as possible to maximize revenue and profit?
Loco_local said:
In 2019 there were more international undergraduate students than white Americans?
www.universityofcalifornia.edu

Fall enrollment at a glance

Fall undergraduate and graduate enrollment by discipline, gender, ethnicity, residency, country (for undergraduates) and campus.
www.universityofcalifornia.edu www.universityofcalifornia.edu
Click to expand...
 
Same could be said about any college, like colleges in Georgia who would rather take in out of state or international over students in state to have max ROI.

panda said:
@Loco_local

Think about it. If you were the CEO of UCLA, Inc and each CA student you admit pays you $14k vs International student who pays you $43k. Wouldnt you admit as many international students as possible to maximize revenue and profit?
Click to expand...
 
panda said:
@Loco_local

Think about it. If you were the CEO of UCLA, Inc and each CA student you admit pays you $14k vs International student who pays you $43k. Wouldnt you admit as many international students as possible to maximize revenue and profit?
Click to expand...
Is it really ROI if international students can’t even get a work visa after they graduate? Tax payers are getting ripped off. It looks like the 10% Asian American decline in enrollment was because they admitted ten percent more students from Asia. UCI is still 50% Asian, but ten percent of them are foreigners.
E26679A0-3CBB-40F6-8914-06F8BFE0CAFA.jpegE31D5D23-6117-4C32-B771-0A84BD54B5B4.jpeg
 
Loco_local said:
Is it really ROI if international students can’t even get a work visa after they graduate? Tax payers are getting ripped off. It looks like the 10% Asian American decline in enrollment was because they admitted ten percent more students from Asia. UCI is still 50% Asian, but ten percent of them are foreigners.
Click to expand...
Not understanding your logic. What does international students not getting a work visa have anything to do with the University's ROI? How do tax payers get ripped off? It's the opposite. Taking international students or out of state students HELP tax payers since those students have to pay EXTRA tuitions to offset the costs.
 
back in early 2000, those international Taiwanese undergrad students likely have dual citizenships and studied in International school in Taiwan. They are generally from some well-off families, and good percentage of them go back Taiwan after competing schools here to work in their family business. Those who try to find job and stay in US are usually those grad school international students who come after they finish undergrad in Asia. Not sure how this demographic has changed, but I don't think ROI effect is generally considered for those international students.
 
CalBears96 said:
Not understanding your logic. What does international students not getting a work visa have anything to do with the University's ROI? How do tax payers get ripped off? It's the opposite. Taking international students or out of state students HELP tax payers since those students have to pay EXTRA tuitions to offset the costs.
Click to expand...
"tax-payer" ROI, which I take as professionals as employees and entrepreneurs who increase the size of the state economy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top