roundcorners

roundcorners

New member
I was born in a small rural town of Le-Kang/Ping Dong located in the southern part of Taiwan. Back then, everyone inter-depended on each other; there were no such thing as living on an island, even though Taiwan is an island. You were never alone; you can say someone was constantly next to you. Our town comprised of buildings where you had your retail establishment on the ground floor and your living quarters above. The original live-work! So when you get your hair cut, your traditional Chinese medicine, or rice porridge you are actually entering someone's home. I remember the entire town operated on virtually a cash less basis; everyone almost just barters and kept a running tabs, and helped each other out when some were short. Everyone was introduced as an aunties and uncles; most of us didn't have much but everyone trusted, helped and gave to one another.

Our family immigrated to the stated in 1981; it took everything to make the trip. Our family went from what was considered middle-class to being dirt poor. Mom took odd alteration jobs and dad tried to start his business. Flash forward five, ten, fifteen, twenty five plus years of chasing the typical "American Dream" including all the typical dramas, pains and heartbreaks of any particular family and here we are today; deciding on where to raise our son, where to buy a house, where to settle down and trying to live out a greater purpose of my faith.

Our pastor said today that as we get older, especially in our western culture, we tend to get more and more isolated; people start to annoy us more and more until we have shallow relationships where we simply talk about superficial clich?s or at most our opinions. The older we get the less relationships we have until we end up in a convalescent home; where at best a family member might visit you once a week.

I see a disturbing indicator in my life, the older I'm getting the fewer refrigerator friends I have left. Refrigerator friends are people I have an open door policy with, where we can take whatever we see from each other's kitchen without asking. This past year has been extremely rewarding with our son but also increasing lonely as we try to make ends meet and survive day-to-day. I know that this tough stage will probably eventually pass; but how easy is it to become habitually self-focus, self-isolating all in the name of raising our son with endless activities.

I just turned 34 this past 12th, and I've never made much money; my 1099s came in and I made just a little over $60,000 in 09; pretty good for working on average 25 hours a week this past year. I graduated from Biola University in 08 and I still have the same profession today as the day I went into b-school. Sure I can probably afford a Monterey plan 3 with the down I have saved, but that would be stretching it a bit, and the wife would most likely have to work a few hours. That would leave us with even lesser margin to think about the people, people outside Orange County, outside Irvine, outside Woodbury and the cause greater than ourselves.

I do have a general observation about rich people; and there is nothing wrong with being rich, and there are plenty of very spiritual, rich people at our church Newong. But they tend to be more independent; self-reliant and self-sufficient. Maybe that is why God has not blessed me with riches; he knew how miserably alone I'll become if I had my way. That is one thing completely terrifying of Woodbury people; rich or not, renting or owning almost everyone carry around this attitude of American (western) self-independence that I never hear anyone really share their deepest emotional/spiritual desires and needs. That is also one thing that scares me about mikeirvine and the people who buy the 2010 collection; there will be even more neighbors who are self-made, isolated in their private houses with no real deep desire or need to know and depend on their neighbors or build meaningful relationships. I am not saying that mikeirvine and I can't be cordially neighbors; I am also not saying that we can't be friends if we really tried hard at it; but sooner or later, I'm sure we'll run out of things to talk about as I'll probably can't keep up with the expensive hobbies. I can be wrong, but most likely mikeirvine and I won't be refrigerator friends.

Our lead Pastor, Dave Gibbons also announced today that he will be moving to Santa Ana. He called his realtor to start the search; I'm not sure if he'll sell his home in Northwood (Racquet Club) but he can't effectively serve and connect with the poor anymore by living in Irvine; he and his family actually wants to live among them. There are a growing number of Irvine families that are moving to Santa Ana; a growing number of people who are committed to growing closer to God and each other by living and inter-depending on one another.

Those of you, who read my threads, know my heart. I enjoy the many conveniences of Irvine, I desire the comforts, safety and beauty of what the city offers; but somehow it is killing me slowly inside. For what makes my heart come alive is to live in a dynamic place where people interact constantly and share not only clich?s, facts and opinions, but have the life margins to unpack feelings, deep emotional/spiritual needs and core beliefs; and unfortunately the only way that ever happens in this culture is when people spend enormous amounts of time with each other. Why should these relationships usually only exist between spouses, family members and therapists; how much more "wealthy" would you be if the people who live next to you, really knows who you are.

As I raise my son; I am acutely aware of how impressionable the first 3-5 years are. Do we want to raise our son in a sterile, wonderfully controlled environment or experience the beautiful mess that is rich in human expressions and relations? I know that these two aren't necessary mutually exclusive; but the longer I live in Irvine the longer it seems that everyday community is more of an uphill battle than it should be. Why should we settle for a small townhouse when our desires are to constantly invite strangers, host guests and house friends to our home.

There are several actions items that I am going to take from now until our lease runs up in July; for as long as I live here; I'm committed to constantly push my comfort zone and reach out. I'm also going to seek God and actively seek the guidance of friends, peers and mentors for our next plan of action. I've felt a sense of peace this morning; as I slept on what I wrote; it is the complete surrender to flow with God wherever he might be calling us to live next. No, I'm not going to pull a "Jerry McGuire" and move to Africa or something; I do have to consider the wife and the kid's best interests. But it was great to finally hold my desires to live in Irvine with open hands.

There is more to write but I'll end it here for now; as always I will update and chronicle our journey...
 
RC,

What an eloquent post. I felt the same way as you do and I packed my bag and lived in a city that is real, dynamic and down to earth modest. I am not religious but I have many friends who are religious from the South Bay and Los Angeles. In fact many of them went to Biola and Fuller. Many have been involved with numerous outreach organizations. West Coast Chinese Student winter Conference was one of several in Mount Herman that I was invited to years ago while I was a student. 3 decades later friends have become pastors of new congregations.

First Chinese Baptist Church in FV was one of the first that started the Chinese migratory movement to OC in 1975. That is just another long story.

Again, I enjoy your post and you do live and practice what you preach. Nice testimony.
 
RC,

As a fellow countryman, I really appreciate your thoughts and sharing your core values. We were literally the same age and have very similar background. While I agree with your observations, I have to disagree with your notion of neighbor, woodbury, or just other people in general especially with your faith. First of all, I am not religious in any way. Growing up in busy city Taipei, I didn't have exposure you had. However, I do realize the relationship and value you had seen. We live in a totally different society today then 30 years ago. Human interaction has changed dramatically because of the speed of information and technology. We have so much more distractions then ever. Not saying it's bad, but what we are doing right now, is one of them. The level of trust is not nearly at the level of 30 years ago. But that's the beauty of humans, we learn, we change and we are all different. We are different in our values, in different stages in the Hierarchy of Needs. As long as we can respect one and another, things will be different.

Again this is a great post, and I certainly look forward to the day we cross path of each other. We will enjoy each other's company.
 
Long-time reader here...

RC, I feel the reasons for wanting to move to Santa Ana have the potential to be a bit short-sighted. If you and your church feel the people of Irvine are materialistic, self-serving, and more or less spiritually-bankrupt, then consider that this is exactly the place you need to be for the same reasons that God sent Paul to Corinth. Irvine is the modern-day Corinth, full of worldly, ego-centric people surrounded by luxury, superficiality, and materialism. If you are really interested in being outside of your comfort zone, then stay where you are among the people you least want to surround yourself with. Bring your light to the darkness. The people of Corinth Irvine are the ones who need you most.
 
RC, your earnest posts like this one make me want to give you a hug. (Not hitting on you - just in a friendly way. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->)

I think it's the new demographic of people that are buying in Woodbury - or at least the demographic that we perceive to be buying in Woodbury - that is souring people like RC on Irvine.

I want everyone to know there are still lots of cool people in Irvine. I've been meeting more moms lately, at the park and at tot classes, and lots of them are cool and down to earth. I don't carry an LV bag, or wear the latest fashions, and I drive a sensible 5-year-old Honda Accord, and I've met some nice, unpretentious people that I feel comfortable hanging out with.

Maybe it's because I'm not hanging in the Asian community? I had a new thought today. I think perhaps Irvine has a higher status among Asians than it does for Caucasians?
 
RC,

I appreciate your frankness. You are not alone in your feelings. Having two young kids now, I definitely focus more inwards toward my own family and have not reached out as much as I would like. I too worry about my kids growing up in a community without knowing their neighbors or having a local network of close friends/family.

I am not sure what the cause for Irvine's tendency toward isolation is. But I don't think the problem is limited to Irvine, or Orange County, or even the US. Westernized societies including parts of Asia, fall victim to the same traps of the modern world.

There is a tendency to want it all and we end up with nothing. Many in America long for more money and when we get it, we feel miserable for working so hard. We wish for a bigger home, then cry under the increasing weight of mortgage payments. We want close friends and neighbors, but we rarely reach out except to wave at your neighbor as they pull out their trash bins.

The problem is everyone is focusing on all the wrong things. Being a Christian, it is my belief that if we spent more time thinking about God and our neighbor and little less time about ourselves, then the world would be a much better place.

Having said that, I struggle everyday being tempted by materialism and self-centeredness of the world and locally in Irvine. How could you not be? I can certainly understand why RC would want to move to Santa Ana and surround himself with like minded people.

RC?please see my PM.
 
RC,
The wife and I had friends in WB and would visit on a regular basis from AV. We decided to move here when we needed more space with a little one. We've been renting here for about a year but we won't be buying here. We found WB pretty cold with a limited sense of community. Our friends who have bought here feel pretty much the same way. I definitely see why some would like it but it's not for us. We signed up for 1 more year on the lease but that's it. We'll be pulling the trigger on a home unless the big one wipes out SoCal. We still like other parts of Irvine but AV, LN and Tustin are also on our list.

I'd love to see a picture of your little one. We have a mixed one as well <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->.

GT
 
[quote author="T2"]Long-time reader here...

RC, I feel the reasons for wanting to move to Santa Ana have the potential to be a bit short-sighted. If you and your church feel the people of Irvine are materialistic, self-serving, and more or less spiritually-bankrupt, then consider that this is exactly the place you need to be for the same reasons that God sent Paul to Corinth. Irvine is the modern-day Corinth, full of worldly, ego-centric people surrounded by luxury, superficiality, and materialism. If you are really interested in being outside of your comfort zone, then stay where you are among the people you least want to surround yourself with. Bring your light to the darkness. The people of Corinth Irvine are the ones who need you most.[/quote]

Thanks T2, and welcome... I am honored to be mentioned in the same post as the Apostle Paul; not to be self-defeating however I feel far from being like Paul; ...and I know all thing are possible... but I feel Irvine has a greater chance of paralyzing me than I have a chance of starting a small movement where I live... I know how addicted I am of my creature comforts and how easy it is to just ignore the struggling neighbor with "great" excuses, and how can anyone be struggling, while we all live under such a fantastically beautiful stucco facade?

But, Irvine is not out of the question, and I didn't say we're moving to Santa Ana either, we just want a tight group of people; to share intimate details of life with... For you non-Christians... um.. think of the TV Show Friends!
 
[quote author="graceomalley"]RC,

What an eloquent post. I felt the same way as you do and I packed my bag and lived in a city that is real, dynamic and down to earth modest. I am not religious but I have many friends who are religious from the South Bay and Los Angeles. In fact many of them went to Biola and Fuller. Many have been involved with numerous outreach organizations. West Coast Chinese Student winter Conference was one of several in Mount Herman that I was invited to years ago while I was a student. 3 decades later friends have become pastors of new congregations.

First Chinese Baptist Church in FV was one of the first that started the Chinese migratory movement to OC in 1975. That is just another long story.

Again, I enjoy your post and you do live and practice what you preach. Nice testimony.[/quote]

Thanks BK... you care about where people live...
I guess I just care about where people live, eternally...
 
[quote author="fe9000"]RC,

As a fellow countryman, I really appreciate your thoughts and sharing your core values. We were literally the same age and have very similar background. While I agree with your observations, I have to disagree with your notion of neighbor, woodbury, or just other people in general especially with your faith. First of all, I am not religious in any way. Growing up in busy city Taipei, I didn't have exposure you had. However, I do realize the relationship and value you had seen. We live in a totally different society today then 30 years ago. Human interaction has changed dramatically because of the speed of information and technology. We have so much more distractions then ever. Not saying it's bad, but what we are doing right now, is one of them. The level of trust is not nearly at the level of 30 years ago. But that's the beauty of humans, we learn, we change and we are all different. We are different in our values, in different stages in the Hierarchy of Needs. As long as we can respect one and another, things will be different.

Again this is a great post, and I certainly look forward to the day we cross path of each other. We will enjoy each other's company.[/quote]

thanks brother... yes, I look forward to meeting you as well. Can you remember, how when your parents go into a friend's store and buy some tea, how the storekeeper would refuse payment? Your parents would almost have to force them to take the money. Can you imagine that happening here in Irvine?

4381239296_9ae4cd1503.jpg


This a picture of our trip to Taiwan back in 06; the people in the picture is of my great uncle his wife and son, my wife and I. We are sitting in the "great room" living room of his traditional medicine pharmacy. He opens his store until about 11 every night, people all over town just drop by anytime to buy medicine, tea and just to sit and chat. We always had company and guest, tea is poured every night with watermelon seeds. On average, we would have at least 10-15 different people stop over, every night... I love that <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
 
[quote author="roundcorners"]
[quote author="graceomalley"]RC,

What an eloquent post. I felt the same way as you do and I packed my bag and lived in a city that is real, dynamic and down to earth modest. I am not religious but I have many friends who are religious from the South Bay and Los Angeles. In fact many of them went to Biola and Fuller. Many have been involved with numerous outreach organizations. West Coast Chinese Student winter Conference was one of several in Mount Herman that I was invited to years ago while I was a student. 3 decades later friends have become pastors of new congregations.

First Chinese Baptist Church in FV was one of the first that started the Chinese migratory movement to OC in 1975. That is just another long story.

Again, I enjoy your post and you do live and practice what you preach. Nice testimony.[/quote]

Thanks BK... you care about where people live...
I guess I just care about where people live, eternally...[/quote]

Neither one could be bought with $$$. Thanks for posting a photo of your family and relatives.

I have an interesting family history to share with you later regarding David Adeney a missionary, my uncle also a missionary, Chiang Kai Shek, and Dr. Sun Yat Sen.
 
[quote author="traceimage"]RC, your earnest posts like this one make me want to give you a hug. (Not hitting on you - just in a friendly way. <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->)

I think it's the new demographic of people that are buying in Woodbury - or at least the demographic that we perceive to be buying in Woodbury - that is souring people like RC on Irvine.

I want everyone to know there are still lots of cool people in Irvine. I've been meeting more moms lately, at the park and at tot classes, and lots of them are cool and down to earth. I don't carry an LV bag, or wear the latest fashions, and I drive a sensible 5-year-old Honda Accord, and I've met some nice, unpretentious people that I feel comfortable hanging out with.

Maybe it's because I'm not hanging in the Asian community? I had a new thought today. I think perhaps Irvine has a higher status among Asians than it does for Caucasians?[/quote]

thanks so much Trace... I know for a lot of families with one year olds are pretty much still stuck at home or stuck with a rigid nap/eating schedule... But I do see more freedom as the kid gets older. And yes, I have heard that when you kid goes to pre-school or kindergarten that there will be more opportunities to meet & greet, connect with other parents.

Like I said, before, I do have hope (fantasy) for Woodbury, like many older villages, there will come a time maybe 10 years from now, where all the kids will be running all over town, and in and out of everyone's houses. Yes, Irvine needs moms like you!
 
[quote author="mikeirvine"]
[quote author="roundcorners"] I am not saying that mikeirvine and I can't be cordially neighbors; I am also not saying that we can't be friends if we really tried hard at it; but sooner or later, I'm sure we'll run out of things to talk about as I'll probably can't keep up with the expensive hobbies. I can be wrong, but most likely mikeirvine and I won't be refrigerator friends.[/quote]

Hi roundcorners

Nice write up.

We never knows, some people hobbies are very personal (expensive is a wrong word I used for my hobbies)..... But I think we all can share common things or views .... if we look less on others differences.

All my life money is not the motivation but more a necessity.
I have no plans to find my soul mate online or care who buy what but I sincerely hope everyone get what they want.

Forum is more an informative research thing I do when I get into something ..... I might be gone after my home is done but I respect and very thankful to many people online that share information and help other just like many I know in the real world.

I never want to call up names and who I like or don't online as it is meaningless to me as I have a real life of friends living in WB and all around the world.

But that doesn't mean I don't care and from what I read here, .... you are a very down to earth person and that is a great plus .....

Regards,
Mike


[/quote]

Mike, I sincerely hope you stick around a while , whether here on the forums or what ever you call your "community". Sometimes I can't see the forest from the trees, but western individualism is so pervasive that it runs deep in our blood veins. You might not know this, but we need you as much as you need others. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll find a level of fulfillment that no hobbies will ever bring.

I also hope you open up your beautiful home, that you start an initial effort to really get to know your new neighbors...
 
[quote author="gtjacket"]RC,
The wife and I had friends in WB and would visit on a regular basis from AV. We decided to move here when we needed more space with a little one. We've been renting here for about a year but we won't be buying here. We found WB pretty cold with a limited sense of community. Our friends who have bought here feel pretty much the same way. I definitely see why some would like it but it's not for us. We signed up for 1 more year on the lease but that's it. We'll be pulling the trigger on a home unless the big one wipes out SoCal. We still like other parts of Irvine but AV, LN and Tustin are also on our list.

I'd love to see a picture of your little one. We have a mixed one as well <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->.

GT [/quote]

Welcome GT... this is a picture of our little one, with our favorite IAC maintenance worker, Alma... good luck on your living situation, keep us posted...

4381621381_31374cb700.jpg
 
[quote author="roundcorners"]
[quote author="gtjacket"]RC,
The wife and I had friends in WB and would visit on a regular basis from AV. We decided to move here when we needed more space with a little one. We've been renting here for about a year but we won't be buying here. We found WB pretty cold with a limited sense of community. Our friends who have bought here feel pretty much the same way. I definitely see why some would like it but it's not for us. We signed up for 1 more year on the lease but that's it. We'll be pulling the trigger on a home unless the big one wipes out SoCal. We still like other parts of Irvine but AV, LN and Tustin are also on our list.

I'd love to see a picture of your little one. We have a mixed one as well <!-- s:) -->:)<!-- s:) -->.

GT [/quote]

Welcome GT... this is a picture of our little one, with our favorite IAC maintenance worker, Alma... good luck on your living situation, keep us posted...

4381621381_31374cb700.jpg


[/quote]

What a cutie, RC!
 
RC,

Thanks for the honest post. I'm not sure how much I can relate to you as I feel like I am in a much different place in life right now since I don't have any kids.

Since I was born here, I do not have any recollections of the struggles my parents had to come over to the States after the Vietnam war, but I can understand what it's like to grow up in a middle class family - my parents never spent more than they needed and taught us the importance of saving money for a rainy day. Our family lived in a small apartment for the first 14 years of my life (5 of us total) in a suburb of San Francisco.

I grew up in a Catholic household and went to church every Sunday. However, after moving away to college, I am guilty of rarely attending mass these days. While I do believe in God, I do not study the bible as much. I can definitely tell from your post that you practice your faith more frequently than I do.

Growing up, I rarely had any interaction with my neighbors, so I don't find this aspect of Irvine strange at all. All my friends were made in school. Most of my aunts and uncle were on the East Coast or back in Vietnam, so I rarely saw them, if at all.

Having said that, I've met some pretty cool people at Woodbury that I see frequently on the basketball court. I've also met some people in school that live in WB and we would often take turns hosting study sessions. Aside from that, I do try to hang out with my close friends at least once a month. As you know, being married, working full-time, and going to school at night leaves me with little free time.

I guess I do fit your bill as someone who does not have a desire to depend on my neighbors for anything- I rely on my friends for this. I'm not saying that I can't be friends with my neighbor, but I just don't see myself having much in common with my older neighbors. I also find it hard to relate to people who are strong Christians. They sometimes make me feel very uncomfortable by telling me what I should or shouldn't do and try to get me to go to their church. I hope you don't take this comment the wrong way - I'm just trying to share some experiences that I've had in the past.

I by no means think I am rich. While my wife and I do make more than the median income according to the numbers you provided, we put a majority of our income into savings, investments, and retirement and we live the same lifestyle that we've had when we graduated from undergrad 8 years ago. Remember, I drive a 4-cylinder Camry!

I know this will all change when we have our house as we won't be able to contribute much to our savings as we will have a mortgage to pay.

With all this being said, good luck on whatever you decide to do.

P.S. That is one good lookin kid you got there!

P.P.S. I might lose all respect on this forum by posting this (based on my song selections!), but since you were kind enough to post some pictures of you and your family, I guess I can post something about myself. This is our first dance video from our wedding last year that kind of gives you an insight to what type of person I am. I don't take life too seriously and am just a normal guy trying to have fun wherever I can. I'm sure this will all change once my wife and I have our first kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0od3xuW97ck

[/flame suit on]
 
[quote author="traceimage"]
[quote author="roundcorners"]

Welcome GT... this is a picture of our little one, with our favorite IAC maintenance worker, Alma... good luck on your living situation, keep us posted...

4381621381_31374cb700.jpg


[/quote]

What a cutie, RC![/quote]

I thought he looks kind of mean there, we couldn't get him to smile for these pictures... but if TIC is reading this, give Alma a raise or promotion, cause there is no one that is as caring or wonderful as her!
 
Steve... man, you go dude... you know it was quite painful to watch, you dance, but that was indeed cool!

I do appreciate your openness and honesty it is a trait that is rarely seen, here or in Irvine. I guess for a lot of us first generation (1.5 gen) immigrants versus second generations like yourself is that we were raised in a totally different culture with different value systems.

Again, not to say that either one is superior, just different; and to go further, we can almost take the best of both cultures and chose to combine it.

I feel as if I need to apologize for your past experiences with Christians! Trust me, not all of us are like that; and your own willingness to come to Christ must be your own desires, it can't be forced. But, that is just kind of the theme here, we're raised in a culture that is so individualistic that it is hard for anyone to admit that they need help and others to walk with them.

I consider my neighbor in he same category as my co-workers & family members; I didn't necessary chose these relationships; but still they exist; they are still in a wider network of friends and spouse that make up the social support structure that keep me balance and sane.

Our cultural tendencies in most relationships whether chosen or not is solely based up utility. When these relationships suit our needs we "use" them, interact with them, love them. When they stop to suit our needs, we divorce, we shun, ignore and write them off. We don't often push past the cliches, the surface interactions because we don't want to risk jeopardizing those relationships; where on the other hand, if we are equipped with the right skills to deal with any conflicts that may arise we get to experience a fragrance, that I can only describe as holy.

There is a given window roughly the first six months to a year when you and your neighbors are all moving in. Just like how your honeymoon kind of sets the tone for the marriage; this window is critical to setting the tone for your neighborhood. Many of you will decide from the very beginning, what your neighborhood culture will be; will it be stingy or generous; will it be quiet or loud; will it be friendly or cold; only you can decide. I hope to run into you around WB someday, and I wish you well also...
 
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