[IHB] Closed Sales from 3/1/2012 to 3/7/2012

Z

zovall

Well-known member
Blog post by nilam:http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/comments/closed-sales-from-3-1-2012-to-3-7-2012

See anything interesting?  The $12.8MM Shady Canyon home at 44 Blue Heron closed for $1119/sq ft.  Last week, a similarly sized home, 23 Cactus, closed for $541/sq ft.  Blue Heron is on a larger lot (.92 versus .57 acres) and is located on the south side whereas 23 Cactus is on the north (closer to the 'tract' homes).  Is that the main reason for the difference in price?  Does it have anything to do with the quality of construction or views?
 
it was an amazing house with a great back and side yard but the noise of trabuco was a bit much.  we were going to make an offer but wisdom from TI saved us from a big regret
 
rkp said:
it was an amazing house with a great back and side yard but the noise of trabuco was a bit much.  we were going to make an offer but wisdom from TI saved us from a big regret
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Was it the noise that prevented you from making an offer?
The house sold below market
 
Exactly. This is not the good old days - buyers are extremely picky now so houses in un-desirable locations, such as the ones backed to major streets, all are sold at huge discounts. I pity the homeowners in Stonegate East, because the noise from Sand Canyon and 133 are so deafening and literally I can feel the ground trembling..

freedomcm said:
"sold below market"

hah, i love magical thinking!

in the rest of the world, that *is* the market price
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freedomcm said:
"sold below market"

hah, i love magical thinking!

in the rest of the world, that *is* the market price
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don?t understand how my comment was construed as ?magical thinking?
It was based on similar comps or sales that took place in the area.
 
@WoodburyDad - yes it was the noise that stopped us from making an offer.  i posted for input on this issue and the responses were an overwhelming "dont do it".  granted the savings and price per sq ft made it a great deal respectively but the trade off and with trabuco becoming a major artery for cypress and woodbury and access to great park made it a way too busy street to back to

@freedomcm - i get that you are saying the closing price is the *market price* but you have to define the market for this house.  REOs and short sales do sell for less than standard sales.  IR or USCTrojan can share data on this.  while i dont think one can buy this REO, dress it up a bit, and flip it for a healthy margin, a buyer of this property is definitely paying less than the standard sales and definitely less than the new builds in woodbury!  so yes its a deal relatively...
 
The internet is a tough communication device.

This Mille Fleurs is actually "below market" for similar model comps (as both I and zovall observed)... whether that's the new "market price" depends on if it sold lower because of location or market correction.

This *is* a Plan 3 and at that price, that's $281/sft... which is notable for Woodbury new builds in that size.

But for homes built during that same time... this one seems like a better deal without the road noise and an equally large lot:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/29-Antique-Rose-92620/home/5931012

And for the rest of the world... I don't think $1m for a 3600sft house in a city with no premiums like "ocean views" is "market price"... yet it happens in Irvine (dumb unicorn!). :D
 
rkp said:
@freedomcm - i get that you are saying the closing price is the *market price* but you have to define the market for this house.
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A definition of "market price" that I agree with -

The amount at which an asset would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, in an arm?s length transaction, agreed within a commercially reasonable period of time. It assumes that each party has a reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts, neither being under any compulsion to act. It assumes that equity arises to both parties from the transaction. ?Arm?s length? implies that the transaction takes place between unrelated or uncontrolled parties, each acting in its own self-interest.

I believe that short sales and REOs by definition both still qualify as "market price" if they meet all of the above criteria. The final price may account for some increased risk, but both parties are typically unrelated and not forced to accept a deal, and only do so after weighing their options...

-IR2
 
Bizarre chain of title for 20 Lookout.

2007 purchase at 100% LTV/CLTV using Countrywide Financing. 
Sold by "Owner of Record" in 2009 to a Bank of New York Mellon (jingle mail? fraud?)
Bank bounced the thing around with an NOTS in 2010 a year later...
REO'd by Recontrust (BofA) in 2011.
Sold in 2012

Let's hope their title insurance is gold plated. 

This was a $300k mortgage loss, not counting missed payments likely since 2009. Half million here, half million there... pretty soon it all adds up.
 
IrvineRealtor said:
I believe that short sales and REOs by definition both still qualify as "market price" if they meet all of the above criteria. The final price may account for some increased risk, but both parties are typically unrelated and not forced to accept a deal, and only do so after weighing their options...
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do you agree that short sales and REOs sell at a discount compared to standard sales?  my point wasnt the definition but that you are getting a discount relative to the current sales.  that discount might be short lived if all the future sales use you as a bench mark and just follow you down but as of right now, most of woodbury SFR isnt selling at under $300/sq ft.  i am not talking about advertised pricing but actual closed sales.
 
IrvineRealtor said:
A definition of "market price" that I agree with -

The amount at which an asset would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, in an arm?s length transaction, agreed within a commercially reasonable period of time. It assumes that each party has a reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts, neither being under any compulsion to act. It assumes that equity arises to both parties from the transaction. ?Arm?s length? implies that the transaction takes place between unrelated or uncontrolled parties, each acting in its own self-interest.

I believe that short sales and REOs by definition both still qualify as "market price" if they meet all of the above criteria. The final price may account for some increased risk, but both parties are typically unrelated and not forced to accept a deal, and only do so after weighing their options...

-IR2
Click to expand...

IR - "commercially reasonable period of time" is where Short Sales should be excluded.
 
LAtoOC said:
IrvineRealtor said:
A definition of "market price" that I agree with -

The amount at which an asset would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, in an arm?s length transaction, agreed within a commercially reasonable period of time. It assumes that each party has a reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts, neither being under any compulsion to act. It assumes that equity arises to both parties from the transaction. ?Arm?s length? implies that the transaction takes place between unrelated or uncontrolled parties, each acting in its own self-interest.

I believe that short sales and REOs by definition both still qualify as "market price" if they meet all of the above criteria. The final price may account for some increased risk, but both parties are typically unrelated and not forced to accept a deal, and only do so after weighing their options...

-IR2
Click to expand...

IR - "commercially reasonable period of time" is where Short Sales should be excluded.
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Especially when there is so much "funny" stuff going on with certain short sale...like agents who try with all their power to double end the commission.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Don't agents like to double-end all transactions... not just shorts? Or at least same-agency double?
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Of course they do, it's in their greedy nature.  But I'm talking about agents like our friend Monica who basically tell perspective buyers that if they want the property they have to go through her.  Think about it, the Seller gets JACK in short sales (or is supposed get nothing at least) and it's the bank that determines the price yet the agent doesn't represent the true Seller which is the bank.  Short sales have and always will provide ways for some agents to game the system.
 
USCTrojanCPA said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Don't agents like to double-end all transactions... not just shorts? Or at least same-agency double?
Click to expand...
Of course they do, it's in their greedy nature.  But I'm talking about agents like our friend Monica who basically tell perspective buyers that if they want the property they have to go through her.  Think about it, the Seller gets JACK in short sales (or is supposed get nothing at least) and it's the bank that determines the price yet the agent doesn't represent the true Seller which is the bank.  Short sales have and always will provide ways for some agents to game the system.
Click to expand...

T-Man... what would you say are the worst case scenarios if we just buy from the Listing Agent, either a Short Sale or Regular Sale... I know the benefits, your offer would probably be the first one the Agent presents to the Sellers & Your Price has some nego room...

What would you say the Buyers have to look out for, or do to protect some of their interests.. also assuming that the person checks out professionally, isn't a dumb ass or jerk...
 
roundcorners said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Don't agents like to double-end all transactions... not just shorts? Or at least same-agency double?
Click to expand...
Of course they do, it's in their greedy nature.  But I'm talking about agents like our friend Monica who basically tell perspective buyers that if they want the property they have to go through her.  Think about it, the Seller gets JACK in short sales (or is supposed get nothing at least) and it's the bank that determines the price yet the agent doesn't represent the true Seller which is the bank.  Short sales have and always will provide ways for some agents to game the system.
Click to expand...

T-Man... what would you say are the worst case scenarios if we just buy from the Listing Agent, either a Short Sale or Regular Sale... I know the benefits, your offer would probably be the first one the Agent presents to the Sellers & Your Price has some nego room...

What would you say the Buyers have to look out for, or do to protect some of their interests.. also assuming that the person checks out professionally, isn't a dumb ass or jerk...
Click to expand...
The worst case comes into play when you hit some speedbumps in the way...like issues with the home inspection or issues with the appraisal.  How hard is that listing agent going to fight for you when their first duty is to represent the seller?  I think understanding that the dollar signs in the head of the listing agent getting in the way of representing you the right way is number one.  Standing firm on your demands/requests and not allowing the listing agent to disregard them or blow them off as minor or insignificant.  Remember, a good agent is one that goes to battle for their client and puts them ahead of themselves. 
 
USCTrojanCPA said:
roundcorners said:
USCTrojanCPA said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Don't agents like to double-end all transactions... not just shorts? Or at least same-agency double?
Click to expand...
Of course they do, it's in their greedy nature.  But I'm talking about agents like our friend Monica who basically tell perspective buyers that if they want the property they have to go through her.  Think about it, the Seller gets JACK in short sales (or is supposed get nothing at least) and it's the bank that determines the price yet the agent doesn't represent the true Seller which is the bank.  Short sales have and always will provide ways for some agents to game the system.
Click to expand...

T-Man... what would you say are the worst case scenarios if we just buy from the Listing Agent, either a Short Sale or Regular Sale... I know the benefits, your offer would probably be the first one the Agent presents to the Sellers & Your Price has some nego room...

What would you say the Buyers have to look out for, or do to protect some of their interests.. also assuming that the person checks out professionally, isn't a dumb ass or jerk...
Click to expand...
The worst case comes into play when you hit some speedbumps in the way...like issues with the home inspection or issues with the appraisal.  How hard is that listing agent going to fight for you when their first duty is to represent the seller?  I think understanding that the dollar signs in the head of the listing agent getting in the way of representing you the right way is number one.  Standing firm on your demands/requests and not allowing the listing agent to disregard them or blow them off as minor or insignificant.  Remember, a good agent is one that goes to battle for their client and puts them ahead of themselves. 
Click to expand...

I see... that begs another question; how do most Realtors get their selling leads, typically from the Broker who they are working for right?  So, assuming that they don't have a relationship; the Agent who is double dipping should be equally motivated by both sides right?

I mean, the deal doesn't get done, if either side isn't happy with the terms.  I mean, again, all terms of the sale must be documented on the Offer & Counter Offer; such as; inspection, defects, or Sold As Is... right? Again, is it also an assumption that most transactions are designed so that no one party can deliberately misleading or take advantage of another party..?

In other words, I know a professional Realtor would typically need to be involved on both sides; but would a Buyer who does their homework and due-diligence, and say maybe a RE Lawyer get away with a typical RE transaction on their own with just the selling agent?
 
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