Author Topic: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair  (Read 2876 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online eyephone

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 187
  • -Received: 450
  • Posts: 6680
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 07:36:45 AM »
I'd be okay with the tax but then I think about where those tax dollars will go. No thanks.

How about using the tax revenue for:
1) Schools -- maybe they can repeal Measure E
2) Improve roads and mass transit/address traffic
3) Build the GP library (just don't spend $200M+)
4) Build affordable homes for our local teachers and police
5) Help pay down the MR bonds
6) Give every resident a tax rebate check

A person can argue if they didn't have MR real estate prices would go through the roof. (the city would potentially make more money in real estate taxes)
Example LR vs PS area (around the same location, but LR property value is higher)




 

Offline someguy

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 42
  • -Received: 36
  • Posts: 111
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 08:27:12 AM »

How about a steep non-resident/investor real estate tax? (Think British Columbia) That should cool the demand side.

This article seems to suggest despite the 15% foreigner tax implemented 9 months ago which seemed to dampen price growth temporarily, Vancouver housing prices are hitting record highs again.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3529481/vancouver-home-prices-foreign-buyers-tax/

Offline momopi

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 518
  • -Received: 266
  • Posts: 1258
  • Congrats to Song Joong Ki and Song Hye Kyo wedding
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 09:13:37 AM »
In places like Vancouver and Irvine with high RE prices and foreign investors, I think there is a market for leasehold developers.  Instead of selling freehold homes they can sell 30 or 50 year leaseholds at significantly lower prices that would be attractive to local buyers.

After the lease expires the land owner can take back the land and redevelop according to current market conditions.  So if the population level has grown much higher, old low density housing on leasehold can be torn down and rebuilt for high density housing according to need.  Or, if the population level has declined, high density housing can be turned into SFR's.  The newer homes would also have the benefit of being updated to whatever current standard.

With automation and AI removing many humans from real jobs in the future, freehold home ownership may become a minority in urban areas within the next couple generations, with the government progressively taking more ownership of the land as people become welfare recipients through minimum basic income.  Those who owned or inherited freeholds would eventually be motivated to sell the land title to the government through some kind of reverse mortgage deal.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:22:10 AM by momopi »

Offline lnc

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 489
  • -Received: 926
  • Posts: 2800
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 10:09:27 AM »
Regarding to the concept of  leashold property, isn't that what China is doing currently with their real estates?



 

Online eyephone

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 187
  • -Received: 450
  • Posts: 6680
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 10:19:32 AM »
I would never buy a leasehold property. (I take that back maybe when I retire. I might live in a trailer.)


In places like Vancouver and Irvine with high RE prices and foreign investors, I think there is a market for leasehold developers.  Instead of selling freehold homes they can sell 30 or 50 year leaseholds at significantly lower prices that would be attractive to local buyers.

After the lease expires the land owner can take back the land and redevelop according to current market conditions.  So if the population level has grown much higher, old low density housing on leasehold can be torn down and rebuilt for high density housing according to need.  Or, if the population level has declined, high density housing can be turned into SFR's.  The newer homes would also have the benefit of being updated to whatever current standard.

With automation and AI removing many humans from real jobs in the future, freehold home ownership may become a minority in urban areas within the next couple generations, with the government progressively taking more ownership of the land as people become welfare recipients through minimum basic income.  Those who owned or inherited freeholds would eventually be motivated to sell the land title to the government through some kind of reverse mortgage deal.

Offline Mety

  • Tourist
  • *
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 7
  • -Received: 5
  • Posts: 64
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 10:22:57 AM »
So do you guys want the housing prices to go up or to go down?

Offline Burn That Belly

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 11
  • -Received: 37
  • Posts: 411
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 10:41:16 AM »
Are we in a bubble or a vacuum?  :D

A vacuum, being families need a place to live regardless and are sucked into the prices and will pay anything just to get a home, that is close to their work, the kid's schools, etc. They don't look too far about appreciation, they just need something within their DTI and want to stop paying annual 5-10% rental increases.

A bubble being speculation is at play and many truly believe they won't lose money and can dump it at any time for a profit.

Personally, I think we're in a vacuum.

Online paperboyNC

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 269
  • -Received: 196
  • Posts: 1289
  • Gender: Male
  • Portola Springs
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2017, 10:47:56 AM »
So do you guys want the housing prices to go up or to go down?

I want the value of my home to go up and the value of my move-up home to go down. Doh!

The following member(s) thanked this post:


Offline momopi

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 518
  • -Received: 266
  • Posts: 1258
  • Congrats to Song Joong Ki and Song Hye Kyo wedding
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2017, 01:17:56 PM »
Regarding to the concept of  leasehold property, isn't that what China is doing currently with their real estates?

For residential they use 70 year leasehold, but I question if the condo buildings would last that long before "urban renewal".



I would never buy a leasehold property. (I take that back maybe when I retire. I might live in a trailer.)

Many gringos bought in Mexico thinking they're getting 99 year lease, only to find out that it's actually 10 year leases.  Even when the property is held in Mexican Trust, there is no guarantee that the beneficiaries would be able to renew indefinitely.

Offline Mety

  • Tourist
  • *
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 7
  • -Received: 5
  • Posts: 64
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 02:45:29 PM »
So do you guys want the housing prices to go up or to go down?

I want the value of my home to go up and the value of my move-up home to go down. Doh!

So you do want the price to go up for "now" assuming you do own one.

Offline iacrenter

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 357
  • -Received: 525
  • Posts: 2721
  • Gender: Male
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 05:29:02 PM »
Interesting NY Times article today. Talks about the housing crisis in California. In a nutshell--we need more supply.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/us/california-housing-crisis.html

The Cost of a Hot Economy in California: A Severe Housing Crisis
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and CONOR DOUGHERTYJULY 17, 2017

In Los Angeles, booming with construction and signs of prosperity, some people have given up on finding a place and have moved into vans with makeshift kitchens, hidden away in quiet neighborhoods. In Silicon Valley — an international symbol of wealth and technology — lines of parked recreational vehicles are a daily testimony to the challenges of finding an affordable place to call home.

Heather Lile, a nurse who makes $180,000 a year, commutes two hours from her home in Manteca to the San Francisco hospital where she works, 80 miles away. “I make really good money and it’s frustrating to me that I can’t afford to live close to my job,” said Ms. Lile.

The extreme rise in housing costs has emerged as a threat to the state’s future economy and its quality of life. It has pushed the debate over housing to the center of state and local politics, fueling a resurgent rent control movement and the growth of neighborhood “Yes in My Back Yard” organizations, battling long-established neighborhood groups and local elected officials as they demand an end to strict zoning and planning regulations.

Now here in Sacramento, lawmakers are considering extraordinary legislation to, in effect, crack down on communities that have, in their view, systematically delayed or derailed housing construction proposals, often at the behest of local neighborhood groups.

The bill was passed by the Senate last month and is now part of a broad package of housing proposals under negotiation that Gov. Jerry Brown and Democratic legislative leaders announced Monday was likely to be voted on in some form later this summer.

“The explosive costs of housing have spread like wildfire around the state,” said Scott Wiener, a Democratic senator from San Francisco who sponsored the bill. “This is no longer a coastal, elite housing problem. This is a problem in big swaths of the state. It is damaging the economy. It is damaging the environment, as people get pushed into longer commutes.”

For California, this crisis is a price of this state’s economic boom. Tax revenue is up and unemployment is down. But the churning economy has run up against 30 years of resistance to the kind of development experts say is urgently needed. California has always been a desirable place to live and over the decades has gone through periodic spasms of high housing costs, but officials say the combination of a booming economy and the lack of construction of homes and apartments have combined to make this the worst housing crisis here in memory.

Housing prices in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose and San Diego have jumped as much as 75 percent over the past five years.

The bill sponsored by Mr. Wiener, one of 130 housing measures that have been introduced this year, would restrict one of the biggest development tools that communities wield: the ability to use zoning, environmental and procedural laws to thwart projects they deem out of character with their neighborhood.

It is now the subject of negotiations between Mr. Brown and legislative leaders as part of a broader housing package intended to encourage the construction of housing for middle- and lower-income families that is also likely to include the more traditional remedy of direct spending to build more housing units.

This is not the first time this state has sought to prod recalcitrant local governments to build housing. Mr. Brown tried to push through a measure to force communities to build more affordable housing around a year ago. That effort, like most in recent years, faltered in the face of opposition from local officials, homeowners and environmentalists, who often see these kinds of measures as enriching developers while threatening the character of some of the most visually striking parts of this state, along the coast and in the mountains.

“It’s giving developers a great gift and not giving residents and voters a chance to cast their opinions about what happens in their own neighborhood,” Helene Schneider, the mayor of Santa Barbara, said of Mr. Wiener’s new bill.

But the worsening housing crisis here has created a political environment where prospects for a state housing intervention appear more likely than ever.

“There is a consensus that there is a crisis and we have to address it,” said David Chiu, a San Francisco Democrat who leads the Assembly Housing and Community Development Committee. Mr. Wiener compared the political atmosphere now to how Californians embraced mandatory water-rationing in response to the five-year drought here.

“We’re at a breaking point in California,” Mr. Wiener said. “The drought created opportunities to push forward water policy that would have been impossible before. Given the breadth and depth of the housing crisis in many parts of California, it creates opportunities in the Legislature that didn’t exist before.”

The debate is forcing California to consider the forces that have long shaped this state. Many people were drawn here by its natural beauty and the prospect of low-density, open-sky living. They have done what they could to protect that life. That has now run up against a growing generational tide of anger and resentment, from younger people struggling to find an affordable place to live as well as from younger elected officials, such as Mayor Eric M. Garcetti of Los Angeles, who argue that communities have been failing in what they argue is a shared obligation.

For the past several decades, California has had a process that sets a number of housing units, including low-income units, that each city should build over the next several years based on projected growth. Mr. Wiener’s bill targets cities that have lagged on building by allowing developers who propose projects in those places to bypass the various local design and environmental reviews that slow down construction because they can be appealed and litigated for years.

The bill applies only to projects that are already within a city’s plans: If the project were higher or denser than current zoning laws allow, it would still have to go through the City Council. But by taking much of the review power away from local governments, the bill aims to ramp up housing production by making it harder to kill, delay or shrink projects in places that have built the fewest.

It is hard to say exactly which projects might benefit if the various bills were passed, since it’s impossible to know which projects local governments might reject in the future. But there are various examples where it might have pushed a development along.

In Los Gatos, about 60 miles south of San Francisco, for instance, a long-running dispute over a proposed development for 320 homes that the city rejected led to a lawsuit by the developer, which resulted in a judge directing the city to reconsider the plans. Also, cities regularly make developments smaller than their zoning allows, something that gradually chips away at future housing production.

California is the toughest market for first-time home buyers and the cost of housing is beyond reach for almost all of this state’s low-income population. Despite having some of the highest wages in the nation, the state also has the highest adjusted poverty rate.

And Proposition 13, the sweeping voter initiative passed in 1978 that capped property taxes, has made things worse: It had the effect of shrinking the housing stock by encouraging homeowners to hold on to properties to take advantage of the low taxes.

“California is a beautiful place with great weather and a terrific economy,” said Issi Romem, the chief economist with BuildZoom, a San Francisco company that helps homeowners find contractors. “To accommodate all those people you need to build a lot, and the state’s big metro areas haven’t since the early ’70s. To catch up, cities would need to build housing in a way that they haven’t in two generations.”

Coastal cities — which tend to have the worst housing problems — have the most scarce land. Still, economists say, the high cost of all housing is first and foremost the result of a failure to build. The state has added about 311,000 housing units over the past decade, for short of what economists say is needed.

“Cities have proven time and time again that they will not follow their own zoning rules,” said Brian Hanlon, policy director of the San Francisco Yimby Party, a housing advocacy group. “It’s time for the state to strengthen their own laws so that advocates can hold cities accountable.”

Still, few elected officials are eager to risk community anger by forcing through construction that would, say, put a 10-story apartment building at the edge of a neighborhood of single-family homes. That has turned California into a state of isolated and arguably self-interested islands.

The situation has been aggravated by places such as Brisbane, just south of San Francisco, which has encouraged extensive office development while failing to build housing.

“We have cities around California that are happy to welcome thousands of workers in gleaming new tech and innovation campuses, and are turning a blind eye to their housing need,” said Mr. Chiu.

In the Bay Area, the explosive growth of the tech industry has led to escalating rents, opening a tough debate over gentrification and brutal commutes for workers. “Cities that deny housing are contributing to skyrocketing rents, unfair evictions and homelessness,” said Lori Droste, a member of the Berkeley City Council.

The measure has raised considerable opposition as well, including from lawmakers who argued that letting state take power away from local governments strips communities of the ability to control the fundamental character of their own neighborhoods.

“People here feel like this is a special place, like people in any town or city do,” said Chris Coursey, the mayor of Santa Rosa. “And they want decisions about the future of the community to be made by people in the community who they can actually talk to about this.”

Richard Bloom, a Democratic state assemblyman and a former mayor of Santa Monica, said even communities like his were no longer reflexively trying to derail housing projects.

“More and more people are becoming well aware that we have a housing affordability crisis on our hands,” he said. “The issue is just reaching critical mass with the Legislature and the public.”

Offline Soylent Green Is People

  • Lender, Abiding Dude.
  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 374
  • -Received: 657
  • Posts: 1400
  • Make Room! Make Room!
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 06:18:03 PM »
There are only a few ways to correct prices:

1) Natural disaster
B) High Taxes on Purchase and Sale
III) Sprawl.

Pick your poison. You can't legislate prices without penalties being placed. You can't build your way out of this without ruining the quality of life here. A solid 8 on the Richter Scale, or one of the County's 3 geothermal vents going volcanic would make things interesting around here, but I'd not wish the destruction upon my fellow man.

That protester needs to sit back, enjoy a cold 48 oz Brawndo (it has electrolytes!) and watch prices continue to bubble higher until any one of those three things happen.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:25:21 PM by Soylent Green Is People »

Offline Burn That Belly

  • Yearning for 949 / 714
  • **
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 11
  • -Received: 37
  • Posts: 411
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 06:58:46 PM »
Just wanted to share that with you guys. I know it seems like an outlier but if things continue the way they are, there's probably going to be more millennials and Z-generations whining and complaining about this in a half decade's time. Could be the start of a whole new revolution.

Offline momopi

  • Certified Irvine Addict
  • ****
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 518
  • -Received: 266
  • Posts: 1258
  • Congrats to Song Joong Ki and Song Hye Kyo wedding
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 10:55:44 AM »

IMO we need to build better water reclamation and recycling infrastructure before allowing more housing development.  Or, perhaps imposing mello roose like bonds on all new developments specifically for water infrastructure improvements.

Offline Irvine Dream

  • O.C. Resident
  • ***
  • Thanks
  • -Given: 8
  • -Received: 100
  • Posts: 747
Re: Saw this guy picketing outside of Altair
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2017, 02:14:30 PM »

 My old house  is back up for sale after less than two years each. My old house definitely looks worse for wear. They never even took out the nails from old pictures, nor put up anything to cover them up and I don't think they ever once cleaned the waterfall. Ewe!

Quote

Well guess it didn't matter that they didn't maintain the house.  It went pending in a week.

 

Talk Irvine Links

[Recent Posts]
[FAQ / Rules]

Site Supporters


Related Links

Recent Posts

Re: Lakers News by jmoney74
[Today at 02:39:04 PM]


Re: Lakers News by eyephone
[Today at 02:36:27 PM]


Re: 2017-2018 Property Tax Bills are out! by jmoney74
[Today at 02:25:42 PM]


Re: 2017-2018 Property Tax Bills are out! by readytobuy
[Today at 02:08:08 PM]


Re: Where to buy <$700k by HMart
[Today at 02:06:21 PM]