Author Topic: President Trump  (Read 269585 times)

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Offline fortune11

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1635 on: January 16, 2018, 09:21:13 AM »
You guys are taking the same position trump is taking of tying “winning “ to basically rising stock market  and paper gains in your portfolio .

2020 is a long ways away and I suspect the day or weeks when s&p stops going up 10-20 points every day is when we will start to see a pin drop silence (or maybe a puddle of red font as opposed to a the ocean of red font we have now) .

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1636 on: January 16, 2018, 10:22:29 AM »
Pocketbook not social issues win elections...

The question Democrats fear most

Ronald Reagan asked a simple question both in 1980, when he ran against the economic malaise of the Carter years, and again in 1984, after he had implemented the same pro-growth policies Trump is now implementing. “Are you better off today than you were four years ago?”

No politician or pundit can spin the answer to that question – every American knows it precisely in their own lives. That question devastated Democrats in both elections, because the answer was self-evident.

Republicans are now uniquely poised to ask it once again.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rep-tom-mcclintock-the-question-democrats-fear-most/article/2645952

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1637 on: January 16, 2018, 10:55:32 AM »
You guys are taking the same position trump is taking of tying “winning “ to basically rising stock market  and paper gains in your portfolio .

2020 is a long ways away and I suspect the day or weeks when s&p stops going up 10-20 points every day is when we will start to see a pin drop silence (or maybe a puddle of red font as opposed to a the ocean of red font we have now) .

Of course the markets will go down.  I am rooting for it...at least 2500 points down.  Markets need to breath, can't inhale forever, must exhale in order to live.  Also, scares out the weak hands and provides a base to advance further.  Nothing acts as a scoreboard better than dollars and cents.  Remember, its the economy stupid!!!  That is what wins elections.

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1638 on: January 16, 2018, 11:21:29 AM »
Its the economy stupid.


Offline fortune11

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1639 on: January 16, 2018, 11:52:50 AM »
Which defunct political textbook are we reading these from

You know that bush lost midterms heavily in 2006 right ? Arguably even better economy than now

You also already know your guy trump won in 2016 right — in an already strong economy that should have favored the incumbency .

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1640 on: January 16, 2018, 12:07:25 PM »
You don't remember this?

Most Americans say their children will be worse off

By Quentin Fottrell
Published: Aug 5, 2015 12:05 p.m. ET

Barely more than one in 10 (13%) American adults believe their children will be better off financially than they were when their career reached its peak and just over half (52%) believe their children will have less disposable income than they did in the future, according to a survey of more than 1,100 American adults released Wednesday by life insurer Haven Life and research firm YouGov. What’s more, just 20% of Americans believe their children will have a better quality of life when they reach their age.

“For the baby boomer generation, pocket money from mom and dad was only part of their early childhood,” says Yaron Ben-Zvi, co-founder and chief executive of Haven Life. “Today’s parents are increasingly prepared to worry about and provide for their children’s financial well-being well far into their adulthoods.” (In fact, 40% of millennials say they get some kind of financial help from their parents, according to an April 2015 Bank of America/USA Today survey of 1,000 kids and 1,000 parents.)

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-americans-say-their-children-will-be-worse-off-2015-08-05

Offline fortune11

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1641 on: January 16, 2018, 12:24:53 PM »
I wonder what that same poll says now . . Given the shellacking gop took in white suburbs in Virginia just a month or so ago .

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1642 on: January 16, 2018, 12:45:17 PM »
We shall see when the election rolls around.  If these trends continue..and I think they will...the answer will be vetted out in the vote. I think it will go one way and you think the other.  I like my odds though. Buffett agrees when discussing how people felt during slow growth Obama years.

Warren Buffett in 'Time': U.S. kids will live better than parents, he writes in Gates edited issue

I have good news. First, most American children are going to live far better than their parents did. Second, large gains in the living standards of Americans will continue for many generations to come.

Some years back, people generally agreed with my optimism. Today, however, pollsters find that most Americans are pessimistic about their children’s future. Politicians, business leaders and the press constantly tell us that our economic machine is sputtering. Their evidence: GDP growth of only 2% or so in recent years.

http://time.com/5087360/warren-buffett-shares-the-secrets-to-wealth-in-america/

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1643 on: January 16, 2018, 05:58:36 PM »
@fortune...excellent post.   

The best TL:DR definition of racism I have seen is:  Racism = prejudice + power/effect.

The reason why I was so adamant about the definition of racism is that people misuse the term where it has no meaning anymore.  Like fortune says...people are reflexive about that term and those any and all conversation ends, whether someone walks away or the term gets mocked or ridiculed.   

The crazy old uncle may say bigoted and hateful things but unless and until he has some degree of power/effect, it's not racism.  He is just a bigot. 

We also have differentiate between individual racism and societal/institutional racism.  Individual racism is bad (i.e a boss) but that is not what people are really offended by/objects to.  It is institutional racism that is most harmful and invidious.

Now, there are clear and obvious evidence of institutional racism.   Gerrymander, voter ID laws, officials expressing bigoted and hateful things.  Those are really easy to point out and condemn (although not to eradicate).

But the bulk of racism is built into society as a result of history, media/perception, and subconscious fears/stereotypes/beliefs.   

For example:  The creation of the inner city as a largely black ghetto did not occur by accident. 

Home builders/sellers would not sell house to minorities in the in 1920s-1940s and imposed racially restrictive convenants that prevent homeowners to sell to minorities.  That practice was found to be unconstitutional by the SC but then the FHA stepped in by intentionally redlining neighbor segregating whites from minorities, further entrenching minorities in inner cities and whites in suburbs. 

Then homebuilders started building single family homes with large lots, driving up prices and pricing out working class (who were more heavily minorities for other reasons).   White people began leaving inner city for both valid and racist reasons.   City planners started putting in highways and infrastructure to serve the wealthier suburbs while inner cities were left largely unserved.  Mass transit plans were reduced or eliminated and replaced by highways and roads, which benefited richer (and whiter) people with cars.  Companies started moving out of the cities and into the suburbs and other areas unserved by mass transit and accessible largely by cars.

On top of all that, put in individual prejudices and bigotry where minority people are viewed as lesser reliable, creditworthy, and not as desirable to rent to.   To this day, minorities are more likely to be rejected for loans and often pay a higher rate for the same loans.  Some of that is due non-racial issues such as low credit score (which of course is created to benefit those with understanding of credit and access to credit to begin with) and some of it is directly related to racial issues, such as bad lenders and brokers. 

So...that is just one (but critical) element as to why certain minorities are trapped in the inner city and have a hard time getting out.  Many people benefited having their parents buy a house and then passing along the appreciation to their children.  Buying of property also creates stability of family and neighborhood (you don't have to worry a landlord).  Of course, we all know that buying into the right neighborhood means better education and access to resources and networking opportunities not available to those excluded from those areas. 

You take those things and move it across everything in society, jobs/employment, small business building, law enforcement, education, etc, and you have a layering effect that creates a lopsided system that benefits richer and whiter individuals (gender is a whole other issue).   

There are also less traceable/quantifiable effects of racism:

For example, there is substantial research showing that there is racial bias in medical treatment provided and received, ,which results in minorities received worse medical care.  Studies show that minorities' own accounts and complaints are ignored by medical personnel and as a result provided with inferior treatment.   Layer that on top issues of access to healthcare in the inner city, lack of access to insurance, and additional health risks associated to living in poor areas like pollution and lead. 
 
Then there are the issues of access excellently outlined by fortune.   Just some evidence (flipping it to gender now):

while women make up 50.8% of the US population, there is only 22%  female representation in the Senate and 19.8% representation in the HOR.  There has never been a female president or vice president. 

The are 17 female CEOs as to Fortune 500 companies...24 in Fortune 1000. 

Women represent 50.3 percent of the law school graduating class...but only make up 35% of the top law firms and 20% of the equity partners. 

Women make up 80% of the healthcare workers but only 40% of the health executives.

Women earn about 53% of the degrees in accounting and make up 63% of the accountants/auditors but only make up 22% of the partners and principals.

In addition to access, there are also the issue of the guidelines and rules established to determine what is "successful".   Since old white men run the country, their idea of success is what governs.   Whether you think that is right or wrong, the bottom line is that to "succeed" you have to meet those expectations and goals in order to become successful.  Thus, even if a minority/woman made it to the top it is because that person modeled him/herself to the same guidelines and expectations set for a white male.

Now, there is obviously movement to toward equilibrium but we are far far away.  Trump's election was the result of economic changes and racial/social fears held by largely older white males and the society they created.  It is not a mystery to anyone that pays attention to politics as to who Trump's base is and what constitutes "red meat" for them.  Just talk about evil foreigners and minorities taking over and you get large responses at rally.  While individually they may not feel that they can express their prejudicial and bigoted views, Trump's success and his supporters emboldens them and now those bigoted and hateful ideas are okay.   Trump's base love him because he says all the things that they were not allow by social norms to say.  Call Mexican immigrants rapists and murderers...yeah!  Muslims are all terrorist...heck yeah!  Too many minority people coming into the country...double heck yeah.

Going back to Trump, he has had a long line of actions in which he says racially insensitive things or take actions based upon racially insensitive/ignorant/bigot ideas.  While saying racially insensitive things just makes one a bigot and idiot, taking actions based upon those beliefs turns the corner into racism.  And when you are the President of the United States, taking actions based upon racial ignorant/bigoted ideas make you the ultimate racist.   He has made many many dogwhistle comments to white nationalists...he brought in people like Steven Bannon, Steven Miller, and Jeff Sessions as top advisers. 

Pointing out a few potential "good" thing he has done for non-white people is equivalent to people saying that they can't be bigoted because they have minority friends.  It would be like saying I gave a dollar to the homeless guy and now I am a benefactor to the homeless.  No, you probably gave out of pity and have no little idea why that person is homeless, how s/he got there, and what personal/social issues caused that person to be homeless.  To point out a few individual "good" deeds is basically painting over the mold. 

With specific to the "sh*thole" comment, the key issue there is Trump's promotion of the concept that where you are from determines who you are.  As noted by others, Trump doesn't differentiate immigrants by what they do or what they can bring to this country...he solely judge them by where they are from.  This is entirely the opposite of the traditional concept of the American dream and one held most dearly by immigrants (who are usually minorities).  Of course, add on to that Trump was referring to Latin American and African nations and people and praising Norway and its immigrants, you have a complete circle of racism. 

There is so so much to read and write about on this topic.   



Offline fortune11

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1644 on: January 16, 2018, 08:12:19 PM »
"The crazy old uncle may say bigoted and hateful things but unless and until he has some degree of power/effect, it's not racism.  He is just a bigot.  "

Thats a good way of putting it .  Bigotry is annoying but racism has real and terrible consequences. 

Offline irvinehomeowner

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1645 on: January 16, 2018, 08:30:22 PM »
So then before he became president he was a bigot... and now he's a racist?

I think bigotry also can and does have an affect but maybe I'm not smart enough to know the difference.
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Offline spootieho

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1646 on: January 17, 2018, 12:26:51 AM »
You guys might want to lok up the term bigot in the dictionary.  Plenty of hypocrisy and irony.

Offline fortune11

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1647 on: January 17, 2018, 04:41:30 AM »
Yes we should look it up the same time we look up the words “hypocrisy” and “irony”  which is what comes to mind when I hear arguments defending trump when any other president (god forbid, Obama) would have been skewered and decimated on this forum to no end

People reading his thread can draw their own conclusions .

Offline Kings

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1648 on: January 17, 2018, 06:43:05 AM »
Yes we should look it up the same time we look up the words “hypocrisy” and “irony”  which is what comes to mind when I hear arguments defending trump when any other president (god forbid, Obama) would have been skewered and decimated on this forum to no end

People reading his thread can draw their own conclusions .

Speaking of "hypocrisy" and "irony"

Quote
The 'girthers' aren't buying Trump's official weight and height
 
President Trump appears remarkably healthy for a 71-year-old man who doesn't eat well or exercise, and he aced a rudimentary cognitive ability test (you can take it yourself here), according to Dr. Ronny Jackson, the White House doctor appointed by former President Barack Obama in 2013. But not everyone is buying Jackson's assessment that Trump is 6-foot-3 and weighs 239 pounds, giving him a barely sub-obesity body mass index (BMI) of 29.9.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/749127/girthers-arent-buying-trumps-official-weight-height

Offline morekaos

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Re: President Trump
« Reply #1649 on: January 17, 2018, 07:45:42 AM »
Yes we should look it up the same time we look up the words “hypocrisy” and “irony”  which is what comes to mind when I hear arguments defending trump when any other president (god forbid, Obama) would have been skewered and decimated on this forum to no end

People reading his thread can draw their own conclusions .

True, back in Obama days everything out of his mouth was sacrosanct and if you dared question it you were instantly labelled a racist..now everything out of Trumps mouth is instantly labelled racist and any criticism is considered truth to power.  Now that's ironic.

 

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