What went wrong?

irvinehomeshopper

Well-known member
Developers found this paradise in OC. Agricultural lands were subdivided and entitled through the planning department in their brand new city hall designed by famous architect.

Treelined parkways and bike friendly sidewalks were built. The home parcels were perfectly engineered with precise width and depth. Multiple builders took one or more 80 home projects based on 3 floor plans with a variation on elevations.

Garages were dominant at the front of the homes with a convenient man door to the house. The developer was clever to make sure the garage is less that 50% of the house width. Knowing that these homes would have neighbors to the sides and rear the lot size was increased to 100'x100' with ample setbacks to both sides as well as the back. Better yet the guideline prevented the builders from doing a second floor that could compromise the neighbors' privacy.

Builders chose windows  and doors made possible by technology. Slab on grade construction with open floor plan that featured a dinette or nook between the kitchen and living room with expansive sliders that open to the huge backyard. The baths came with either American Standard or Kohler.

The homes looked similar in the neighborhood after all there were all stucco homes but the landscapings were immaculate and perfectly manicured. Families left the city to buy this American dream. Each neighborhood has a perimeter wall and a project name on the entrance wall uplit  behind a floral planter.

New single story schools were built through out the new suburb. Young and inspiring teachers taught students well and the schools were top notched drawing a lot white families to the area. Retail and commercial centers were planned a long the major streets. Many car dealers set their shop in the city.

Developer knew the success to homeownership was to build job center within a 15 minutes drive from home offering jobs from entry level apprentice to executive positions. Local theaters and civic plaza consisted of fire, police and performing art center were established for a full functioning city.

Local architecture became world renowned and were published across the world. Nearby hotels were at least 5 stories.

A freeway was planned adjacent to the city. The developer only allowed commercial with the freeway adjacency instead of residential.

Soon the Asian population also wanted this american dream. Asian kids made the schools academically stellar and of course enrollment impacted. Asians in less than 2 decades became the majority of the population. The nearby cities even has its own ethnic town. Soon the retail businesses have signs and menu in only Asian characters.

Mamasans operated their specialized services in discrete locations not bothering anyone and keeping customers with a happy smile. The city has endless fast foods, Target and Costco in keeping up with the population demand.

Does this sound familiar? I just described Garden Grove.
 
Garden Grove schools were (are?????????) stellar? ROFLOL! When I was growing up Garden Grove was commonly referred to as GARBAGE Grove!
 
Garden Grove from the late 1940's to the late 50's had stellar schools. Walt Disney chose the Disneyland site because of the Garden Grove proximity and the executive workforce from this early masterplanned suburb. Robert Schuler hired Richard Neutra in the late 40's to design his world renown church followed by Phillip Johnson with the creation of the Crystal Cathedral then Richard Meier the Getty architect designed the museum on the campus. The hotels that service the Disneyland were built in the GG city limit. Besides Disneyland, City place shopping center with its movie theater was a huge hit in the late 50's to the early 70's. It was modified and renamed the Block at Orange because the GG name was so trashed.  It sounded like you were a part the population that contributed to what went wrong.
 
Compton was also developed as a nice community... And so on.
 
What happened is that scenario was clearly MANY years ago as the 22 Freeway which was most likely the freeway that was planned has been there for as long as I can remember and the Asians came when the boat people came from the Vietnam era. The reason they went to GG (and Westminster) was it was CHEAPER than better communities like FV and it went downhill from there.

When I bought my first place, it came down to a condo in GG and a townhome in Fullerton. We would have liked Irvine, but we just didn't have enough money. To this day we thank God for passing up on GG.......... the place that looked so nice new is a dump as is the surrounding area, not that it was anything great at the time.

GG planning never came close to Irvine, Even the earliest homes in Irvine had HOAs and the city has always kept up it's streets.

GG planning was no different than other cities that were growing quickly at the time. FV schools were always better than GG. In fact some homes in FV are in the GG district and they always had issues selling when someone asked about the schools.
 
irvinehomeshopper said:
Garden Grove from the late 1940's to the late 50's had stellar schools. Walt Disney chose the Disneyland site because of the Garden Grove proximity and the executive workforce from this early masterplanned suburb. Robert Schuler hired Richard Neutra in the late 40's to design his world renown church followed by Phillip Johnson with the creation of the Crystal Cathedral then Richard Meier the Getty architect designed the museum on the campus. The hotels that service the Disneyland were built in the GG city limit. Besides Disneyland, City place shopping center with its movie theater was a huge hit in the late 50's to the early 70's. It was modified and renamed the Block at Orange because the GG name was so trashed.  It sounded like you were a part the population that contributed to what went wrong.

In the late 40's to the late 50's, Santa Ana had stellar schools.

My second place was in Orange. I went to the Block (which was known as the City at the time so not sure why it had to be renamed since it was in the City of Orange and the City never mentioned the name GG). The place was never great. It had stores like House of Fabrics and Main Place (SANTA ANA) hurt the City, not it's name.

I did NOTHING to bring down GG. I lived in FV. It was a dump before I decided not to buy a condo there.

What went wrong was the masterplanning wasn't so great. No HOAs, a city not keeping up streets, poor lighting, not keeping up shopping centers, etc and CRIME was what did in GG. It got the name Garbage Grove BECAUSE it was a dump of a city not because we made that name up and that caused it.

We considered Westminster even worse but we had no name for that city.......... only Garbage Grove and Anacrime.

As for Disney being in the area. Have you lived in a house or apt near Disney? Every stinking night the fireworks go off and it's LOUD. That means cheaper apts/homes and that brings down the area. LOTS of transients in the area.

Luckily I never lived that close to the Mouse House but I had friends who worked at the hospital I worked at in Anaheim who complained about the noise from the fireworks.

Btw.................... if GG had such great planning, what mall did they develop in that city? Santa Ana had Fashion Square which had upscale stores I Magnin and Bullocks. It was later changed from an outdoor mall (like the Block used to be) into Main Place and South Coast Plaza.

Westminster developed Westminster Mall (which sadly has become a ghost town of empty shops) because the area it serves is um............. run down.

Orange had the City (renamed the Block) and Orange Mall which has also gone downhill.

But GG???????????????????????? What did this master planned community do to develop a mall? I can't think of a darned thing.

Bottom line.................... GG hasn't kept up their city and it's too late. The houses/apts are full of people who can't or won't spend more to upgrade their properties or even keep them decent looking. That's what happened, not people like me who lived in other cities.
 
irvinehomeshopper said:
Developers found this paradise in OC. Agricultural lands were subdivided and entitled through the planning department in their brand new city hall designed by famous architect.

Treelined parkways and bike friendly sidewalks were built. The home parcels were perfectly engineered with precise width and depth. Multiple builders took one or more 80 home projects based on 3 floor plans with a variation on elevations.

Garages were dominant at the front of the homes with a convenient man door to the house. The developer was clever to make sure the garage is less that 50% of the house width. Knowing that these homes would have neighbors to the sides and rear the lot size was increased to 100'x100' with ample setbacks to both sides as well as the back. Better yet the guideline prevented the builders from doing a second floor that could compromise the neighbors' privacy.

Builders chose windows  and doors made possible by technology. Slab on grade construction with open floor plan that featured a dinette or nook between the kitchen and living room with expansive sliders that open to the huge backyard. The baths came with either American Standard or Kohler.

The homes looked similar in the neighborhood after all there were all stucco homes but the landscapings were immaculate and perfectly manicured. Families left the city to buy this American dream. Each neighborhood has a perimeter wall and a project name on the entrance wall uplit  behind a floral planter.

New single story schools were built through out the new suburb. Young and inspiring teachers taught students well and the schools were top notched drawing a lot white families to the area. Retail and commercial centers were planned a long the major streets. Many car dealers set their shop in the city.

Developer knew the success to homeownership was to build job center within a 15 minutes drive from home offering jobs from entry level apprentice to executive positions. Local theaters and civic plaza consisted of fire, police and performing art center were established for a full functioning city.

Local architecture became world renowned and were published across the world. Nearby hotels were at least 5 stories.

A freeway was planned adjacent to the city. The developer only allowed commercial with the freeway adjacency instead of residential.

Soon the Asian population also wanted this american dream. Asian kids made the schools academically stellar and of course enrollment impacted. Asians in less than 2 decades became the majority of the population. The nearby cities even has its own ethnic town. Soon the retail businesses have signs and menu in only Asian characters.

Mamasans operated their specialized services in discrete locations not bothering anyone and keeping customers with a happy smile. The city has endless fast foods, Target and Costco in keeping up with the population demand.

Does this sound familiar? I just described Garden Grove.

Every city with a planning dept starts out as a master planned community.

FV had the chance to have South Coast Plaza in the city but passed because they thought Huntington Center (now Bella Terra), Honer Plaza (across from Santa Ana college with it's Montgomery Ward store) had enough shops.

SCP was no sure thing at the time. Costa Mesa gave Sears and May Co a lease for a buck a year to entice them to anchor the shops and it had one two story wing from Sears to May Co (now Bloomingdales).

I remember when Greenbrook came to FV. We thought who would buy into a neighborhood with a HOA which can tell you what color you can paint your house? Sure thing tho.......... sold out well even though the 2700-3400 sq foot houses had zero lot lines (poor mayor was impeached for letting zero lot lines in) and oh those prices........ over $40K! We thought the kids who came from those houses were the rich kids.
 
I never said the area directly beneath the fireworks is a nice place to live. I did say GG was the main influence in which many major developments were decided. Disney was one. The City shopping center along with the office complexes was another. It was a joint venture between GG and Orange. The retail/office commercial masterplan straddled in between both cities mostly influenced by GG than the city of Orange.

The Crystal Cathedral was another important developments  attracted to GG.

You had mentioned immigrant influx is one of the causes. The Vietnamese population seeking political asylum were indeed the problem GG had to face with. Korean also found GG extremely attractive. The immigrants could have been one possible factor contributed to the decline of a community.

Today we have a different type of immigrants who have a much lower moral standard than the earlier immigrants. The rich and entitled Chinese nationals' families are here to hide from their own corruption. This is no different than GG.

All of the ethnic invasions caused the white families to flee GG. The same applied to Santa Ana like you mentioned once had stellar schools until the Hispanics overpopulated the city.

You also mentioned SCP. Segerstrom grew up in Santa Ana and just like other white folks had moved to Newport Beach. His family home is still in Floral Park. Santa Ana Fashion Plaza now Main Place was the place Henry wanted to leave his Legacy but SA did not grant him a tax incentive while a little known city Costa Mesa was willing to work with Seggerstrom. He chose a parcel of Costa Mesa land closest to the Santa Ana border. Sears had the first choice and chose the Santa Ana entrance. Early ads depicted Sears in the city of Santa Ana and not the lesser known Costa Mesa because SA address was prestigious.

White flight is terrible for a community. Both GG and SA had stellar schools until the white population began to leave the cities.

As both cities reached their built out. Home prices no longer appreciate because no new home to benchmark higher prices. GG And SA home appreciations were sluggish thus allowing immigrants to move in just like you said for the more affordable homes in GG while FV had higher home prices because at that time the city had not reached its total built out.

Montgomery Ward was huge for Huntington Beach Mall and SA's Honer Plaza. Both cities were too confident that Ward would stay forever.

Both GG and SA had prostitution behind closed door just like Irvine. As long the oldest profession remains discreet the city should be just fine. When the profession took to the streets of SA and GG that was when GG and SA hit bottom in late 50's. Both remained in the sewer for at least 4 decades. Both cities were desperate for money allowing zoning for adult establishments such as bars and theatre to operate in the city limit.

GG Blvd, Beach Blvd, Harbor Blvd and Westminster Blvd/17th street and 1st Street became the sin capital of OC dragging both cities into despair.


Ready2Downsize said:
irvinehomeshopper said:
Garden Grove from the late 1940's to the late 50's had stellar schools. Walt Disney chose the Disneyland site because of the Garden Grove proximity and the executive workforce from this early masterplanned suburb. Robert Schuler hired Richard Neutra in the late 40's to design his world renown church followed by Phillip Johnson with the creation of the Crystal Cathedral then Richard Meier the Getty architect designed the museum on the campus. The hotels that service the Disneyland were built in the GG city limit. Besides Disneyland, City place shopping center with its movie theater was a huge hit in the late 50's to the early 70's. It was modified and renamed the Block at Orange because the GG name was so trashed.  It sounded like you were a part the population that contributed to what went wrong.

In the late 40's to the late 50's, Santa Ana had stellar schools.

My second place was in Orange. I went to the Block (which was known as the City at the time so not sure why it had to be renamed since it was in the City of Orange and the City never mentioned the name GG). The place was never great. It had stores like House of Fabrics and Main Place (SANTA ANA) hurt the City, not it's name.

I did NOTHING to bring down GG. I lived in FV. It was a dump before I decided not to buy a condo there.

What went wrong was the masterplanning wasn't so great. No HOAs, a city not keeping up streets, poor lighting, not keeping up shopping centers, etc and CRIME was what did in GG. It got the name Garbage Grove BECAUSE it was a dump of a city not because we made that name up and that caused it.

We considered Westminster even worse but we had no name for that city.......... only Garbage Grove and Anacrime.

As for Disney being in the area. Have you lived in a house or apt near Disney? Every stinking night the fireworks go off and it's LOUD. That means cheaper apts/homes and that brings down the area. LOTS of transients in the area.

Luckily I never lived that close to the Mouse House but I had friends who worked at the hospital I worked at in Anaheim who complained about the noise from the fireworks.

Btw.................... if GG had such great planning, what mall did they develop in that city? Santa Ana had Fashion Square which had upscale stores I Magnin and Bullocks. It was later changed from an outdoor mall (like the Block used to be) into Main Place and South Coast Plaza.

Westminster developed Westminster Mall (which sadly has become a ghost town of empty shops) because the area it serves is um............. run down.

Orange had the City (renamed the Block) and Orange Mall which has also gone downhill.

But GG???????????????????????? What did this master planned community do to develop a mall? I can't think of a darned thing.

Bottom line.................... GG hasn't kept up their city and it's too late. The houses/apts are full of people who can't or won't spend more to upgrade their properties or even keep them decent looking. That's what happened, not people like me who lived in other cities.
 
Always interesting to read about the history of our area.

My parents came from the East Coast, and when they were planning to move out to Orange County in the late 1970s, they were looking at potential cities and thought "Garden Grove" sounded so lovely!

They ended up settling in Huntington Beach. When I was a kid, Huntington Center (now Bella Terra) and Westminster Mall were both nice local malls. Westminster Mall had a lot of big department stores--many of which don't exist anymore--like Buffums, Robinsons, and May Co.
 
eyephone said:
What's the point of this thread?

As you might have guessed, I'm thinking the post implies Irvine's going down as GG did with influx of Asians, highway (toll roads for Irvine), and big shopping malls...

I'm about 15 miles away and still hear and feel fireworks from Disneyland at night... It must be fun living nearby there...

 
Earlier immigrants (Vietnamese/Korean) in GG are very different from the late Chinese immigrants in Irvine in a lot of ways (they come with different intentions to begin with), and it's hard to draw a similar analogy.  It can be better or worse in a lot of ways, but it's going to be different.

In a nutshell, early immigrants start from scratch, and do whatever they can to make a living and they do live in GG; current immigrants are mostly filthy rich (many from corruption, some from the industry boom in China), they just want a place to park their money outside of China to avoid Chinese gov't getting its hand in it; many of them don't live here as they still work in China, but their parents and kids do. 
 
irvinehomeshopper said:
White flight is terrible for a community. Both GG and SA had stellar schools until the white population began to leave the cities.

Is this the reason this thread was created? 
 
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