Author Topic: Obamacare on Life Support article  (Read 43375 times)

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Offline peppy

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #315 on: July 19, 2017, 03:06:42 PM »
Everyone who qualifies for an Obamacare subsidy costs me and you as taxpayers so the insurance company can profit. I could get that $1400+ plan with a $700 per month ($8400 per year) subsidy from Uncle Sam if I keep my income to under $64K for the two of us. But I still have to pay over $700 per month and I'm still better off paying cash which means I would pay over $8400 per year for a high deductible plan (peace of mind) that I probably won't use (and if I do I need to fork over another $6500-$13K+ per year for my deductibles) and the government gets to kick in another $8400 in premiums.

Nice chunk of change for the insurance companies. No wonder their stocks are at all time highs.

My insurance is around $1400/mo out of my pocket as well. I have the premiums taken out before tax which is a $700 per month tax credit from Uncle Sam. What are you doing wrong where your premiums are not pre-tax?

One of the obvious fixes to the Exchanges is to give you the same tax deductability you get on a plan from work.

Premiums would be pretax, yes but the $1400 per month Obamacare that I was referencing is for TWO PEOPLE (ok, 50's but this is NOT a plan that pays anything for someone who goes to the doc several times a year and has a few meds.........  the docs cash price is less than the stinking copay! So obviously do NOT USE that Obamacare cuz the oop is higher than paying myself!) AND you can only make $64000 per year or there is NO SUBSIDY.

How can ANYONE in the OC afford that craziness? THIS IS A CATOSTROPHIC policy....... not technically but it is unless you happen to have some stupid ridiculous $13K oop or something like that ON TOP OF THE PREMIUMS!

t's not required to have it btw cuz......................... it's too expensive per the government and qualifies for a waiver. Just pay the docs cash price (u can charge it, it's just called cash price cuz there is no insurance). They even get sample meds and give them to cash payers who them get out of paying for some of their meds.

And the $1400 per month thru employer is no dental or vision same as Obamacare. Doesn't cover anything either but you are right........ pretax.

Crazy crap insurance Obamacare is.

Uhmmm ... Obamacare/ACA is not insurance.

Offline jmoney74

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #316 on: July 19, 2017, 03:09:27 PM »
Everyone who qualifies for an Obamacare subsidy costs me and you as taxpayers so the insurance company can profit. I could get that $1400+ plan with a $700 per month ($8400 per year) subsidy from Uncle Sam if I keep my income to under $64K for the two of us. But I still have to pay over $700 per month and I'm still better off paying cash which means I would pay over $8400 per year for a high deductible plan (peace of mind) that I probably won't use (and if I do I need to fork over another $6500-$13K+ per year for my deductibles) and the government gets to kick in another $8400 in premiums.

Nice chunk of change for the insurance companies. No wonder their stocks are at all time highs.

My insurance is around $1400/mo out of my pocket as well. I have the premiums taken out before tax which is a $700 per month tax credit from Uncle Sam. What are you doing wrong where your premiums are not pre-tax?

One of the obvious fixes to the Exchanges is to give you the same tax deductability you get on a plan from work.

Premiums would be pretax, yes but the $1400 per month Obamacare that I was referencing is for TWO PEOPLE (ok, 50's but this is NOT a plan that pays anything for someone who goes to the doc several times a year and has a few meds.........  the docs cash price is less than the stinking copay! So obviously do NOT USE that Obamacare cuz the oop is higher than paying myself!) AND you can only make $64000 per year or there is NO SUBSIDY.

How can ANYONE in the OC afford that craziness? THIS IS A CATOSTROPHIC policy....... not technically but it is unless you happen to have some stupid ridiculous $13K oop or something like that ON TOP OF THE PREMIUMS!

t's not required to have it btw cuz......................... it's too expensive per the government and qualifies for a waiver. Just pay the docs cash price (u can charge it, it's just called cash price cuz there is no insurance). They even get sample meds and give them to cash payers who them get out of paying for some of their meds.

And the $1400 per month thru employer is no dental or vision same as Obamacare. Doesn't cover anything either but you are right........ pretax.

Crazy crap insurance Obamacare is.

Uhmmm ... Obamacare/ACA is not insurance.

I guess technically it's insurance with Obamacare subsidies.  Gotta say.. that is a grip for the whole family I'm assuming. 

Offline peppy

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #317 on: July 19, 2017, 03:29:33 PM »
Everyone who qualifies for an Obamacare subsidy costs me and you as taxpayers so the insurance company can profit. I could get that $1400+ plan with a $700 per month ($8400 per year) subsidy from Uncle Sam if I keep my income to under $64K for the two of us. But I still have to pay over $700 per month and I'm still better off paying cash which means I would pay over $8400 per year for a high deductible plan (peace of mind) that I probably won't use (and if I do I need to fork over another $6500-$13K+ per year for my deductibles) and the government gets to kick in another $8400 in premiums.

Nice chunk of change for the insurance companies. No wonder their stocks are at all time highs.

My insurance is around $1400/mo out of my pocket as well. I have the premiums taken out before tax which is a $700 per month tax credit from Uncle Sam. What are you doing wrong where your premiums are not pre-tax?

One of the obvious fixes to the Exchanges is to give you the same tax deductability you get on a plan from work.

Premiums would be pretax, yes but the $1400 per month Obamacare that I was referencing is for TWO PEOPLE (ok, 50's but this is NOT a plan that pays anything for someone who goes to the doc several times a year and has a few meds.........  the docs cash price is less than the stinking copay! So obviously do NOT USE that Obamacare cuz the oop is higher than paying myself!) AND you can only make $64000 per year or there is NO SUBSIDY.

How can ANYONE in the OC afford that craziness? THIS IS A CATOSTROPHIC policy....... not technically but it is unless you happen to have some stupid ridiculous $13K oop or something like that ON TOP OF THE PREMIUMS!

t's not required to have it btw cuz......................... it's too expensive per the government and qualifies for a waiver. Just pay the docs cash price (u can charge it, it's just called cash price cuz there is no insurance). They even get sample meds and give them to cash payers who them get out of paying for some of their meds.

And the $1400 per month thru employer is no dental or vision same as Obamacare. Doesn't cover anything either but you are right........ pretax.

Crazy crap insurance Obamacare is.

Uhmmm ... Obamacare/ACA is not insurance.

I guess technically it's insurance with Obamacare subsidies.  Gotta say.. that is a grip for the whole family I'm assuming.

There is plenty of things to criticize on the ACA but this just sounds like they are getting screwed by the employer. For that kind of money you can get a gold level plan with has low/zero deductibles. It just doesn't add up.

Offline jmoney74

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #318 on: July 19, 2017, 03:31:37 PM »
Well if both adults are on the older side (just assuming).. you're already near 1K a month for the both of you.  Then the two teens I'm guessing or whatever.  I know my folks were paying about 1200 a month for the two of them at one point. This is before Obamacare. 

Offline peppy

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #319 on: July 19, 2017, 03:43:37 PM »
Well if both adults are on the older side (just assuming).. you're already near 1K a month for the both of you.  Then the two teens I'm guessing or whatever.  I know my folks were paying about 1200 a month for the two of them at one point. This is before Obamacare.

Sounds like employer is not pitching at all, though. These are prices similar to what you'd be paying in the individual marketplace.

Offline jmoney74

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #320 on: July 19, 2017, 03:49:57 PM »
Well if both adults are on the older side (just assuming).. you're already near 1K a month for the both of you.  Then the two teens I'm guessing or whatever.  I know my folks were paying about 1200 a month for the two of them at one point. This is before Obamacare.

Sounds like employer is not pitching at all, though. These are prices similar to what you'd be paying in the individual marketplace.

Sorry thought you guys were talking not through employer.

Offline peppy

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #321 on: July 19, 2017, 04:00:39 PM »
Well if both adults are on the older side (just assuming).. you're already near 1K a month for the both of you.  Then the two teens I'm guessing or whatever.  I know my folks were paying about 1200 a month for the two of them at one point. This is before Obamacare.

Sounds like employer is not pitching at all, though. These are prices similar to what you'd be paying in the individual marketplace.

Sorry thought you guys were talking not through employer.

I thought R2D's husband worked for a tech company. Not anymore?

Offline Ready2Downsize

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #322 on: July 19, 2017, 09:17:05 PM »
Wanted to quit work and both be retired (looked into Obamacare when it started so when we looked a few months ago quite a sticker shock).

We have enough money to both be retired but since we are not old enough for social security and medicare is even further out, savings would have to pay for everything including health care for a number of years.

We would pay it on our own but i'm pretty pissed off that if we pay the doctor with no insurance we pay less than the copay (same doctor, same care) than if we pay the premiums and submit the claim. Not only that, only one of my docs even takes ANY Obamacare plan at all.

So then I got to looking into meds and figured out that what we pay is once again higher WITH insurance than if we went to Costco and paid with no insurance at all.

What the heck do I pay insurance for? Ok, obviously I know...... in case something bad happens. BUT retire, keep the income (dividends, required 401K distribution from my father in law, interest, rental income) and if we r old enough 401K distributions of our own to under 64080 per year and that gets use a subsidy so we ONLY pay $700 per month for ridiculous coverage which we will not use since paying cash is cheaper every month (and most likely going up next year).

It's not like I have no expenses. I have no house payment, but we still have prop taxes, insurance, food, etc.

Even $700 per month (no dental or vision) x 12 months per year for something we will unlikely get anything out of for 10 years (assuming it doesn't go up which it will) = $84K. Will I use that much to make it worth paying for all those years? Maybe, but if I need something major I'm going to get a big discount by paying the cash price. I KNEW hospitals will discount and now I know doctors will too.

And if I choose to go with Obamacare, get that subsidy it's taxpayers who eat that other $700 per month. The insurance companies have to making money on this.

And what on earth makes a doctor charge me less than I would pay in just my copay and then also give up his cut from insurance? OVERHEAD in billing and collecting. Ridiculous.

So.................. no retirement yet for the hubby. All because of insurance.

Offline jmoney74

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #323 on: July 19, 2017, 09:24:29 PM »
Wanted to quit work and both be retired (looked into Obamacare when it started so when we looked a few months ago quite a sticker shock).

We have enough money to both be retired but since we are not old enough for social security and medicare is even further out, savings would have to pay for everything including health care for a number of years.

We would pay it on our own but i'm pretty pissed off that if we pay the doctor with no insurance we pay less than the copay (same doctor, same care) than if we pay the premiums and submit the claim. Not only that, only one of my docs even takes ANY Obamacare plan at all.

So then I got to looking into meds and figured out that what we pay is once again higher WITH insurance than if we went to Costco and paid with no insurance at all.

What the heck do I pay insurance for? Ok, obviously I know...... in case something bad happens. BUT retire, keep the income (dividends, required 401K distribution from my father in law, interest, rental income) and if we r old enough 401K distributions of our own to under 64080 per year and that gets use a subsidy so we ONLY pay $700 per month for ridiculous coverage which we will not use since paying cash is cheaper every month (and most likely going up next year).

It's not like I have no expenses. I have no house payment, but we still have prop taxes, insurance, food, etc.

Even $700 per month (no dental or vision) x 12 months per year for something we will unlikely get anything out of for 10 years (assuming it doesn't go up which it will) = $84K. Will I use that much to make it worth paying for all those years? Maybe, but if I need something major I'm going to get a big discount by paying the cash price. I KNEW hospitals will discount and now I know doctors will too.

And if I choose to go with Obamacare, get that subsidy it's taxpayers who eat that other $700 per month. The insurance companies have to making money on this.

And what on earth makes a doctor charge me less than I would pay in just my copay and then also give up his cut from insurance? OVERHEAD in billing and collecting. Ridiculous.

So.................. no retirement yet for the hubby. All because of insurance.

Yeah I was told you're better off really rich or really poor come retirement. A lot of Asians will move everything to their  kids name and then collect social benefits. I heard Mr Lee of Lees sandwich did this. My brother is a doctor and saw him at the hospital.

Offline peppy

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #324 on: July 20, 2017, 09:44:39 AM »
Wanted to quit work and both be retired (looked into Obamacare when it started so when we looked a few months ago quite a sticker shock).

We have enough money to both be retired but since we are not old enough for social security and medicare is even further out, savings would have to pay for everything including health care for a number of years.

We would pay it on our own but i'm pretty pissed off that if we pay the doctor with no insurance we pay less than the copay (same doctor, same care) than if we pay the premiums and submit the claim. Not only that, only one of my docs even takes ANY Obamacare plan at all.

So then I got to looking into meds and figured out that what we pay is once again higher WITH insurance than if we went to Costco and paid with no insurance at all.

What the heck do I pay insurance for? Ok, obviously I know...... in case something bad happens. BUT retire, keep the income (dividends, required 401K distribution from my father in law, interest, rental income) and if we r old enough 401K distributions of our own to under 64080 per year and that gets use a subsidy so we ONLY pay $700 per month for ridiculous coverage which we will not use since paying cash is cheaper every month (and most likely going up next year).

It's not like I have no expenses. I have no house payment, but we still have prop taxes, insurance, food, etc.

Even $700 per month (no dental or vision) x 12 months per year for something we will unlikely get anything out of for 10 years (assuming it doesn't go up which it will) = $84K. Will I use that much to make it worth paying for all those years? Maybe, but if I need something major I'm going to get a big discount by paying the cash price. I KNEW hospitals will discount and now I know doctors will too.

And if I choose to go with Obamacare, get that subsidy it's taxpayers who eat that other $700 per month. The insurance companies have to making money on this.

And what on earth makes a doctor charge me less than I would pay in just my copay and then also give up his cut from insurance? OVERHEAD in billing and collecting. Ridiculous.

So.................. no retirement yet for the hubby. All because of insurance.

Since you do a lot of shopping for your care and pay out of pocket, you might be interested in https://heal.com/ ($99 house calls) and https://zendyhealth.com/ (the priceline of medical services). Also, Pharmacies might price-match each other if you shop around a little.

I think you are mixing up the concepts of co-pay/coinsurance/deductibles/max out of pocket. For any high deductible plan, the new norm is that paying cash might end up being cheaper. There is no co-pay initially; you are paying the full negotiated price until you hit your deductible. That price might be higher than what they are willing to take if you pay by cash. However, this is not a consequence of the ACA. This has been slowly happening (also on employer sponsored health plans) to keep the cost of insurance low/acceptable while coming to terms with the higher costs of medical care. Low deductible plans have been gradually disappearing. Some places sponsor an HSA to alleviate some of this, but this only works for people who can save up prior to needing the money to cover medical costs. I believe Trumpcare was trying to do this as well, but the bulk of people wouldn't be in a position to take advantage of it.

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #325 on: January 23, 2018, 01:57:14 PM »
So the Obamacare tax penalty for not having health insurance was removed as part of the GOP tax plan. 

Now with the temporary budget deal, several other Obamacare taxes have been suspended:

3 Obamacare taxes, including one on higher-value plans, are suspended in deal to end shutdown
Quote
The stopgap spending deal reached by Congress on Monday suspended imposition of the three taxes: the so-called Cadillac tax on high-value health plans, a 2.3 percent levy on medical devices and the health insurance tax.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/obamacare-taxes-were-suspended-in-deal-to-end-government-shutdown.html

Personally, these tax penalties / increases were the things I despised most about Obamacare.  I guess there is still the Medicare / capital gains tax on people earning above a certain amount, but overall I'm getting to the point where I don't care if Obamacare gets repealed or not.  The parts that I disliked the most are quickly disappearing.

Offline woodburyowner

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #326 on: January 23, 2018, 05:04:05 PM »
So the Obamacare tax penalty for not having health insurance was removed as part of the GOP tax plan. 

Now with the temporary budget deal, several other Obamacare taxes have been suspended:

3 Obamacare taxes, including one on higher-value plans, are suspended in deal to end shutdown
Quote
The stopgap spending deal reached by Congress on Monday suspended imposition of the three taxes: the so-called Cadillac tax on high-value health plans, a 2.3 percent levy on medical devices and the health insurance tax.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/obamacare-taxes-were-suspended-in-deal-to-end-government-shutdown.html

Personally, these tax penalties / increases were the things I despised most about Obamacare.  I guess there is still the Medicare / capital gains tax on people earning above a certain amount, but overall I'm getting to the point where I don't care if Obamacare gets repealed or not.  The parts that I disliked the most are quickly disappearing.

I'm curious what the argument is for not taxing high value health insurance plans.  Don't get me wrong, I have one that's very close to the limit, but I would understand if I got a small tax bill for the value of the plan (above the stated limit).   It can be argued as a fringe benefit which I currently have to pay income tax on.

Offline spootieho

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Re: Obamacare on Life Support article
« Reply #327 on: February 13, 2018, 12:25:50 PM »
Good...  Taxing medical devices and equipment only increases the costs. 

So many things in the ACA were done ass backwards.

IMO, health care/insurance shouldn't be taxed at any level.  It's great that companies can expense it, but what if your company doesn't?  Now it's out of pocket.
So, insurance + coverage for me is $20,000 per year.  Due to my income bracket, I would have to make over $40,000 to pay for that individually.  That's insane. 


 

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