accident at corner baytree & roosevelt?

tdg

New member
saw some teddy bears at the street corner under light signal.  dont want to speculate, but doesn't look good.  anybody know what happened?
 
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Press reports never seems to report any details to help us learn from. The important lessons parents should take from this crash could save other lives in the future.
Irvine is a great place to bicycle - but many still insist on riding side walks designed for pedestrians.
This is an example of why this is so deadly, even though it is legal in Irvine. (Some cities have prohibited side walk bicycling riding)

A new bicycle is a great holiday gift, and riding to school and around your neighborhood is a wonderful healthy development of responsibility; but some special skills are important for safety when riding on a side walk: If you know children who ride, please teach these points to them...

    1) Slow down.
            a) Speeding among pedestrians is dangerous and they have the right of way.
            b) Motorists expect pedestrian speeds onside walks - and do not anticipate fast bicycle
    2) At drive ways and intersections, slow WAY down, expect motorists to NOT see you; make eye contact, wave, etc with drivers to verify that they see you.
    3) At intersections with stop signs - STOP. California law expects every bicyclist to obey the same rules of the road as a drivers of vehicles, so stop means STOP... and follow the rules of the road on who goes first. 
    4) Signalized intersections & cross walks;
            a) It is always safest to dismount and walk your bicycle across EVERY cross walk as a pedestrian.
            b) A white WALK light means it is time to cross, but cars may be turning across your path, will not expect you to be moving faster than a pedestrian, and may not have seen you bat all, so see #2 above.
            c) A green traffic signal for the travel lanes and bike lane does not apply to you on the side walk; If cross walk has a red HAND - solid or flashing or counting down, do NOT cross. Wait for the next white WALK light.
    5) Ride with traffic; Drivers are looking for traffic in one direction; if you ride against traffic, even on the side walk, you are more likely to be in a crash with drivers turning or pulling out across your path.
    6) KNOW you are invisible. Motorists are paying attention to traffic (even when not distracted or impaired) but a bicyclist on a side walk is not 'consequential' (even to an attentive & sober driver).
        Human brains cannot process everything we see, so you are actually invisible to most drivers if you are not in traffic. That is why it is actually safer to bicycle IN traffic than on the edge or on a side walk. 
        For children who have not yet learned the rules and flow of traffic, side walk riding is best - BUT they must understand that they are NORMALLY unseen, and when side walks have obstacles like landscape, pedestrians, and sharper lines of sight, it makes it even harder to be seen.

In this sad case in Irvine, there is a Bike Lane on Roosevelt. If used, the motorist would have likely seen the bicyclist when passing him in traffic, would have merged INTO THE BIKE LANE ahead of the bicyclist as legally REQUIRED and made the right turn ahead of the bicyclist, who would continue west on Roosevelt to his home. 

By riding on the side walk, the bicyclist was inconsequential = invisible to traffic.
At the corner, even if the traffic light was green (GO) & the cross walk light was white (WALK), the motorists would turn right while checking for pedestrians & might not have seen the bicyclist coming up on his blind side at speed.
If the traffic light was red (STOP) and cross walk white (WALK) he would come to a complete stop, see no one in the cross walk & turned right - into the bicyclist coming off the cross walk.
If the traffic light was green (GO) and cross walk red hand (DONT WALK) he would not have to come to a complete stop, would expect & see no one in the cross walk & turned right - into the bicyclist coming off the cross walk at speed.         

Being visible is the most important thing after being predictable when near vehicles. There is a reason to wear Hi-Viz safety vests, have flashing tail lights & safety flags when riding. Helmets are required by law, but are not NEEDED if you avoid the crash before it happens. 

As more and more bicyclists of all ages enjoy the benefits of active transportation for health and economy, motorists will learn to anticipate bicyclist in traffic, on the edge of lanes or in bike lanes and on side walks. Only when bicyclists are considered will they become more consequential and thus less invisible. Motorists must notice a bicycle on the side walk and understand that there may well be a conflict at the next drive way or corner. 

Bicycle Education is available through the Orange County Bicycle Coalition. OCBike.org
           
 
One Less Car said:
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Huh?

Ok, let's blame the dead kid.  Your post seems so defensive.  Are you the killer?
 
WTTCHMN said:
One Less Car said:
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Huh?

Ok, let's blame the dead kid.  Your post seems so defensive.  Are you the killer?

I don't think the poster is trying to blame anyone. Safety on the road is everyone's duty -- both bicyclist and driver. Most "accidents" are not accidental. There is often some factor of human error. The post lists some good tips for bicyclists and can hopefully prevent another tragedy.
 
iacrenter said:
WTTCHMN said:
One Less Car said:
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Huh?

Ok, let's blame the dead kid.  Your post seems so defensive.  Are you the killer?

I don't think the poster is trying to blame anyone. Safety on the road is everyone's duty -- both bicyclist and driver. Most "accidents" are not accidental. There is often some factor of human error. The post lists some good tips for bicyclists and can hopefully prevent another tragedy.

Regardless of who was at fault, I think what happened was, by definition, an accident.

And the OP does give some excellent tips.

But it's pretty clear that the OP blames this on the little kid.
 
What's even more dangerous and common in OC than kid bicyclists who do not know safety rules are adult Mexican bicyclists who do not know safety rules.  How many times have you seen an adult Mexican bicyclist riding against traffic? 
 
WTTCHMN said:
iacrenter said:
WTTCHMN said:
One Less Car said:
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Huh?

Ok, let's blame the dead kid.  Your post seems so defensive.  Are you the killer?

I don't think the poster is trying to blame anyone. Safety on the road is everyone's duty -- both bicyclist and driver. Most "accidents" are not accidental. There is often some factor of human error. The post lists some good tips for bicyclists and can hopefully prevent another tragedy.

Regardless of who was at fault, I think what happened was, by definition, an accident.

And the OP does give some excellent tips.

But it's pretty clear that the OP blames this on the little kid.

An accident doen't mean it wasn't preventable. We shouldn't think this tragedy will never happen again. Those guidelines are good for everyone.
 
WTTCHMN said:
One Less Car said:
By now I am sure you have seen coverage of the 9 year old who died in the crash.
This was not an accident.

Huh?

Ok, let's blame the dead kid.  Your post seems so defensive.  Are you the killer?
This is irresponsible reaction.  "One Less Car" posted a very detailed list of safety tips that we all should be following when on the road and teaching our kids as well. No one is blamed in the post for the unfortunate tragedy. So please take these tips in a positive way.
 
Purple said:
This is irresponsible reaction.  "One Less Car" posted a very detailed list of safety tips that we all should be following when on the road and teaching our kids as well. No one is blamed in the post for the unfortunate tragedy. So please take these tips in a positive way.

Yes, the OP posted a very detailed list of safety tips.  But if you read carefully, s(he) placed the blame squarely on the little kid.

One Less Car said:
In this sad case in Irvine, there is a Bike Lane on Roosevelt. If used, the motorist would have likely seen the bicyclist when passing him in traffic, would have merged INTO THE BIKE LANE ahead of the bicyclist as legally REQUIRED and made the right turn ahead of the bicyclist, who would continue west on Roosevelt to his home. 

By riding on the side walk, the bicyclist was inconsequential = invisible to traffic.       
 
where is the big list of things that drivers of multi-ton hunks of steel should do to avoid killing pedestrians and cyclists due to their inattention and negligence?

 
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