Fatty Liver

I was wondering if there are any health experts or doctors on IHB who can shed some light on having a fatty liver.



I just a annual check up with my doctor and he told me that i have a fatty liver and told me that i should come back to see him in about three months to do some blood testing and ultra sound. I was a little concerned after hearing this. My wife is extremely concerned. I'm thinking this a result of my love for meat (bulgogi and kalbi) and sugar in my coffee. Is having a symptom of a fatty liver dangerous? Should I be worried? Should i completely eliminate meat and sugar from my diet and become a vegetarian? What can i do to have a healthier liver? I know my father struggled with diabetes and it may run in our family blood.



I would appreciate any advice.



Panda

Sorry.. Zovall or Socal, can you please move this to the Health and Fitness thread?

that reminds me P, we're not in our 20s anymore... I should get a check up... haven't seen a doc in years... this I know for sure about you liver... if you happen to drink a beer or Soju with your meal and you don't get "Asian" red in the face anymore, something might be wrong... take care man, I pray it works out, keep us informed

<a href="http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/nonalcoholic-steatohepatitis-nash-overview">From WebMD.</a>



If you're thinking of going vegan / vegetarian, or mostly so, I would recommend Mark Bittman's book, <em>Food Matters</em>. Mark is a food / cooking writer for the NY Times, and his doc basically told him that he needed to go vegetarian for his health. Because of his love for all types of foods and his career, this wasn't possible, but he found a method that worked for him. He also discusses food policy in America, which might also provide some motivation for making the change.



And if diabetes runs in your family, cutting back on your sugar would not be a bad idea (for anyone, really). You might look at other sweetners, such as stevia or agave nectar, which are both available at Trader Joe's, if you can't cut out the sugar completely. If possible, start by avoiding white foods (e.g., white rice, potatoes, white bread, sugar, etc.).



Good luck - and remember you have a lot of motivation coming in the next few months.

Cutting, white rice, meat, and sugar out of my diet is going to be tough... but i am going to try. I'm only 33 years old and I thought i was immortal.

Might I suggest baby steps? Don't do it all at once. For November and December make two of your three meals vegetarian / vegan. It is a lot easier than you think, and especially if you can substitute something else that you like for the thing you are missing. (For example, I gave up breakfast burritos for peanut butter on whole wheat, high fiber toast, which I love, and a banana.) Given all the goodies at the holidays, I would suggest not giving up sugar until January, but try to cut back where you can in December. Don't take on too much change at once and set yourself up for failure.



Most of this is genetic, so don't beat yourself up too much. Plus, you will be imparting good lessons to your kids from the get-go.

[quote author="PANDA" date=1258671209]I was wondering if there are any health experts or doctors on IHB who can shed some light on having a fatty liver.



I just a annual check up with my doctor and he told me that i have a fatty liver and told me that i should come back to see him in about three months to do some blood testing and ultra sound. I was a little concerned after hearing this. My wife is extremely concerned. I'm thinking this a result of my love for meat (bulgogi and kalbi) and sugar in my coffee. Is having a symptom of a fatty liver dangerous? Should I be worried? Should i completely eliminate meat and sugar from my diet and become a vegetarian? What can i do to have a healthier liver? I know my father struggled with diabetes and it may run in our family blood.



I would appreciate any advice.



Panda</blockquote>


I'm not a health expert, Panda --- but I also was recently diagnosed with fatty liver. I've had a couple of follow up appointments with gastroentrenology specialists to learn more about it. I guess this syndrome has become somewhat common in Americans. Essentially my instructions were "lose weight and eat better" and it is something that can improve. My next appointment is with a nutritionist.



I'll keep in touch with you on what I find out, but for now I'm not super concerned --- but its definitely a wake up call and a call to action. Work less, eat better, and spend as much time as possible with those who are important. Of course that is good advice regardless of how fat your liver is. Just keep in mind we are both still young and have ample time and opportunity to make adjustments.

[quote author="CK" date=1258680192][quote author="PANDA" date=1258671209]I was wondering if there are any health experts or doctors on IHB who can shed some light on having a fatty liver.



I just a annual check up with my doctor and he told me that i have a fatty liver and told me that i should come back to see him in about three months to do some blood testing and ultra sound. I was a little concerned after hearing this. My wife is extremely concerned. I'm thinking this a result of my love for meat (bulgogi and kalbi) and sugar in my coffee. Is having a symptom of a fatty liver dangerous? Should I be worried? Should i completely eliminate meat and sugar from my diet and become a vegetarian? What can i do to have a healthier liver? I know my father struggled with diabetes and it may run in our family blood.



I would appreciate any advice.



Panda</blockquote>


I'm not a health expert, Panda --- but I also was recently diagnosed with fatty liver. I've had a couple of follow up appointments with gastroentrenology specialists to learn more about it. I guess this syndrome has become somewhat common in Americans. Essentially my instructions were "lose weight and eat better" and it is something that can improve. My next appointment is with a nutritionist.



I'll keep in touch with you on what I find out, but for now I'm not super concerned --- but its definitely a wake up call and a call to action. Work less, eat better, and spend as much time as possible with those who are important. Of course that is good advice regardless of how fat your liver is. Just keep in mind we are both still young and have ample time and opportunity to make adjustments.</blockquote>


Thanks CK. OMG!. It is very comforting to know that someone else you know has the same thing you have and also going through the same thing. CK, you are like my long lost Caucasion twin brother.

Bummer - I thought this was going to be about Foie Gras. On a more serious note, if you are seeing elevated levels of triglycerides in your blood it should not be taken lightly. The ratio of triglycerides/HDL is a strong predictor for heart disease. To get this ratio in check you may want to look at increasing the intake of "good" fats and vitamin B3 while lowering the "bad" fats (e.g. saturated fats). As already mentioned, there is a carb connection as well and you should try to stay away from simple carbs (overly processed and easily absorbed). I believe there is some research that shows that fructose (as in high fructose corn syrup) vs glucose will metabolize into higher levels of triglycerides.



It's not about sacrificing all your meals and living a miserable life. It's about striking a balance and making smart food choices. Dropping the sugar intake takes some getting used to but I manage to go from 2 packets of sugar to none whatsoever in my coffee. It'll taste like crap for a couple of weeks but you'll get used to it. Similarly, if there is a choice between refined grain and whole grain, go with the latter. Meats are still OK if you do it in moderation. Make the Kalbi a treat and not a habit. There are some other odd things that have shown to reduce triglyceride levels as well. Cinnamon and fish oil are two examples I can think of.



Becoming a vegetarian alone is not going to cut it. Vegetarianism does not equate to being healthy.

What about using honey powder as a substitute for sugar? Isn't honey supposed to be good for you? Thanks Green cactus.. What you saying is very similar to what my doctor told me. I wonder if there is any good books on amazon on keeping a healthy liver. I work out every morning, but it is useless if you don't eat right.



P-

<img src="http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/features/food/restaurants/blog/eatthis.jpg" alt="" />



This is one my favorite diet books!

[quote author="PANDA" date=1258687545]What about using honey powder as a substitute for sugar? Isn't honey supposed to be good for you? Thanks Green cactus.. What you saying is very similar to what my doctor told me. I wonder if there is any good books on amazon on keeping a healthy liver. I work out every morning, but it is useless if you don't eat right.



P-</blockquote>


My advice is to ween yourself off the sugar. That's a much better approach than trying to find "tricks" to get that sweetness. You should go through your eating habits and cut the waste calories first. For example:



- no sugar in coffee, tea

- no soda or fruit juices - drink water or unsweetened tea instead and EAT the fruit instead of drinking juice only

- no simple carbs - switch to whole grain whenever possible

- increase the amount of fiber in your diet (especially when combined with carbs)

- switch to leaner meats / preferably fish when possible

- oilve oil + lemon instead of salad dressing

- less alcohol



It also helps to keep a log of what you eat - of EVERYTHING you are eating. There are some iPhone apps that will make this rather easy and once you get started you'll make it a habit. Keeping a log alone has been shown to change eating patterns for the better. You can give yourself an allowance on what your calorie target is and give yourself a bonus for any exercise you do. You can see if your lifestyle change is compatible with a target caloric intake you'd like to have.



Diets do NOT work. You have to change your lifestyle and be happy/comfortable with it. Be realistic with the goals you want to achieve and keep them. If you have any indulgences that you can't give up, go for the best experience but do it less frequently. For example, I have a sweet tooth but will not "waste" it on a donut or some dull pastry every day. I'll pick up a nice Sprinkles cupcake about once a month or go out for gelato once in a while (instead of keeping a steady ice-cream supply in your freezer). I don't feel like I'm giving up anything - I just feel like I'm saving up for something better/more special. As the Cookie Monster would say "it's a sometimes food".

An easy way to start is to just keep eating the same meals you usually do, but halve the meat and double the vegetables (ex. cook half the amount of meat, and two kinds of veggies instead of one to make it more appealing).

Forum posts are not medical advice, are for discussion purposes only, and are not a substitute for consultation with your physician.





Fatty liver is a recent epidemic. Obesity is a recent epidemic. I'm not suggesting that you're overweight, but the first step may be gradual weight loss. All the prior dietary advice is... nice. But if you eat more calories than you need, perhaps you can just start by eating in moderation. Eat what you like, but not as much. Adding on some exercise can also help.



If your BMI is normal or normalizes with diet/exercise and your LFTs still don't improve, then you should be speaking with a gastroenterologist.



If you have a hard time with lifestyle modification, join the club. Speak with your physician.



You have time, but if your liver is inflamed for a long period of time, it may scar to the point where.... well, it would not be a good thing.





Did I mention: Forum posts are not medical advice, are for discussion purposes only, and are not a substitute for consultation with your physician.

I enjoyed reading Michael Pollan's book "In Defense of Food". His motto is "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants".

This is going to sound overly simplistic and slightly nutty but...



Eat more oatmeal and take Salmon Oil caplets... my Triglycerides dropped back into normal range within a few weeks.



Skip to the 2:00 mark for a more detailed explanation:

<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>

Fattys?



<a href="http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Fattys.htm">http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Fattys.htm</a>



I'm not sure if this is the diet you had in mind...

[quote author="CK" date=1258680192][quote author="PANDA" date=1258671209]I was wondering if there are any health experts or doctors on IHB who can shed some light on having a fatty liver.



I just a annual check up with my doctor and he told me that i have a fatty liver and told me that i should come back to see him in about three months to do some blood testing and ultra sound. I was a little concerned after hearing this. My wife is extremely concerned. I'm thinking this a result of my love for meat (bulgogi and kalbi) and sugar in my coffee. Is having a symptom of a fatty liver dangerous? Should I be worried? Should i completely eliminate meat and sugar from my diet and become a vegetarian? What can i do to have a healthier liver? I know my father struggled with diabetes and it may run in our family blood.



I would appreciate any advice.



Panda</blockquote>


I'm not a health expert, Panda --- but I also was recently diagnosed with fatty liver. I've had a couple of follow up appointments with gastroentrenology specialists to learn more about it. I guess this syndrome has become somewhat common in Americans. Essentially my instructions were "lose weight and eat better" and it is something that can improve. My next appointment is with a nutritionist.



I'll keep in touch with you on what I find out, but for now I'm not super concerned --- but its definitely a wake up call and a call to action. Work less, eat better, and spend as much time as possible with those who are important. Of course that is good advice regardless of how fat your liver is. Just keep in mind we are both still young and have ample time and opportunity to make adjustments.</blockquote>


I went to Borders on Friday and got a book to learn more about the fatty liver called "The 7 principles of fat burning, get healthy, lose weight weight and keep it off!" by Eric Berg, DC.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Fat-Burning-Healthy-Weight/dp/1888045558/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258934925&sr=8-1">http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Fat-Burning-Healthy-Weight/dp/1888045558/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258934925&sr=8-1</a>



I would say that i am currently about 20 lbs over weight for my height. I was curious to know why the weight was not coming off while i was eating healthier and working out every morning with out much results. The book mentioned a weakness in the liver would be one of the main causes of preventing weight loss. I found page #106 to be very interesting and i will write it here.



Creating a Healthy Liver



Because all fat burning hormones create their effects through the liver, having a healthy liver is the most important first step in weight loss. Without a healthy liver, fat burning will be next to impossible. The best foods for the liver are raw fishes, fish, etc. ) Since a damaged liver has difficulty breaking down proteins, raw proteins such as those found in sushi (eaten without the rice) and sashimi are healthy for the liver. The raw fish is loaded with enzymes and is less stressful because it is raw rather than cooked. Cooked fish is the next best thing, then chicken and lamb. Eggs are also good unless the gall bladder is sluggish.



Red meats tend to be a bit more stressful to digest than fish, but in small quanities are fine. A large cooked piece of meat is very stressful on the liver. As far as red meat is concerned, it's much easier for the liver to digest a rare steak than a fully cooked one. However, don't ask for a "rare" burger at the McDonald's drive-up window. I'm talking about a high-quality steak. A small amount of red meat would be okay a few times per week; but when you add the bun to the hamburger, it creates more stress on the liver.



Once every two months, I try to treat myself to lunch at Todai and just eat the raw tuna and salmon without the rice, and try to stay away from the hot (fatty) food sections. It is probably one of the best things you can do for your liver. Also I've read somewhere that about 10% of the Korean population carry a hepatitis virus B or C (mostly dormant than active) a virus found in the liver because of their culture of excessive drinking and passing around the soju cup. I've read that an active hepatitis C virus is the deadly one.



Hope this information helps.

[quote author="PANDA" date=1258964628] Also I've read somewhere that about 10% of the Korean population carry a hepatitis virus B or C (mostly dormant than active) a virus found in the liver because of their culture of excessive drinking and passing around the soju cup. I've read that an active hepatitis C virus is the deadly one.</blockquote>


You don't get Hep B and C from sharing a drink.

[quote author="green_cactus" date=1258965845][quote author="PANDA" date=1258964628] Also I've read somewhere that about 10% of the Korean population carry a hepatitis virus B or C (mostly dormant than active) a virus found in the liver because of their culture of excessive drinking and passing around the soju cup. I've read that an active hepatitis C virus is the deadly one.</blockquote>


You don't get Hep B and C from sharing a drink.</blockquote>


Green Cactus,

Are you 100% sure that hepatitis B and C cannot be transferred through saliva ? I have heard this from a couple of MD sources and this made headline news in Korea about 5-7 years ago about taking caution in passing around the soju cups and sharing soups in restaurants. Again, I am not a health expert or an MD, but try to gather the correct information.